A Sincere Question for Those Who Condemn the Burning of Korans in America

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    A Sincere Question for Those Who Condemn the Burning of Korans in America


    The U.S. military has confirmed that Bibles of United States soldiers serving in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed by order of the U.S. State Department because Muslims were offended that the soldiers were filmed reading the Bibles on Arabic Al Jazeera television. CNN reported that that the Bibles were "burned" in order to satisfy the demands of Muslim authorities who were deeply offended that copies of the official sacred book of Christianity, printed in the local language of the Afghans and read by U.S. soldiers fluent in Pashto, were allowed into the country. The burning of the Bibles in Afghansitan was approved by the U.S. government, lauded by the Afghan Muslims and seemed to satiate the anger of those Muslims deeply offended at Bible reading on Arab network television.

    Now General David H. Petraeus, U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, has denounced plans by a Florida church to burn copies of the Koran this weekend. The White House has also condemned the Florida church's plan, with press secretary Robert Gibbs reiterating Petraeus's contention that the act would be "offensive" to Muslims. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley called the proposed demonstration "un-American" and said it was "inconsistent with the values of religious tolerance and religious freedom." Muslim, Christian, and other religious leaders are putting pressure on Pastor Terry Jones of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainsville, Florida not to follow through with his declaration that he will burn the Korans this Saturday, September 11.

    I happen to agree that the church's plan to burn the Korans is unwise, and it is obvious that there is outrage in the Muslim world and in our government over the pastor's plan, but my question is a simple and sincere one: Why was there not a similar outrage among Muslims, the American military and the American government over the burning of Bibles in Afghanistan?
    Someone tell me why our elected officials and government representatives apply such a double standard on such a regular basis? I have nothing against burning books in protest either way, but find it ludicrous that perpetually a double standard is applied with the US giving in to foreign interests, and condemning US citizens actions. The politics of appeasement don't work, unless your plan is to be subjugated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Someone tell me why our elected officials and government representatives apply such a double standard on such a regular basis? I have nothing against burning books in protest either way, but find it ludicrous that perpetually a double standard is applied with the US giving in to foreign interests, and condemning US citizens actions. The politics of appeasement don't work, unless your plan is to be subjugated.
    That really is sad and ****ed up.. What has America become ..
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    The general response to the Quaran burning in the United States just further fuels my desire for an uprising. THIS MANY people oppose it due to "insensitivity" towards Muslims? WHO GIVES A F*CK?!

    As the original context of this is shown, if this were a Bible burning, it wouldn't have even made the news.
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    Pragmatism. I think, deep down, Christians do realize that even a bible is nothing but paper and ink. If you think the physical book holds ANY power or significance, then you are guilty of Idolatry.

    There is a large, vocal, and violent contingent in the muslim world that issues fatwas over **** as stupid as books (Satanic Verses) and cartoons. Regardless of what does or doesn't make sense, American soldiers lives will be lost in the irrational frenzy.
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    I merely look for consistency. Us curtailing the rights of US citizens (including the right of the miltiary members on a US base to have a bible) solely for the purpose of placating an irrational violent foe just continues to weaken us as a country, and continues to make us look more and more pitiful in the eyes of the Islamic world.

    Sure if the guy burns the Quarans, they will say "Ha look, americans hate us, and hate our religion". However if the government steps in and stops him they will just say "Look, the US government bends its own constitution to suit us, they are weak and we can topple them" which was what led to the first attempt as well as second bombing of the World Trade Center. Clinton's total refusal to attempt to take any sort of action against Bin Laden during that time period emboldened him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I merely look for consistency. Us curtailing the rights of US citizens (including the right of the miltiary members on a US base to have a bible) solely for the purpose of placating an irrational violent foe just continues to weaken us as a country, and continues to make us look more and more pitiful in the eyes of the Islamic world.

    Sure if the guy burns the Quarans, they will say "Ha look, americans hate us, and hate our religion". However if the government steps in and stops him they will just say "Look, the US government bends its own constitution to suit us, they are weak and we can topple them" which was what led to the first attempt as well as second bombing of the World Trade Center. Clinton's total refusal to attempt to take any sort of action against Bin Laden during that time period emboldened him.
    The entire evening news has been about this story. While they have been pleading with him and urging him to cancel, I have seen no indication of use of force to prevent him from burning anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The entire evening news has been about this story. While they have been pleading with him and urging him to cancel, I have seen no indication of use of force to prevent him from burning anything.
    No, and thats fine. Internal sources have stated that the Pentagon is considering using a personal Cease And Desist order against him, but it hasn't happened yet. But condemning him for doing it, while requiring that the US soldiers bibles get burned is just pure hypocrisy.

    Honestly, is the way to deal with bullies like radical islamist to just say "ok" to whatever they want? Did the Dutch cartoonist deserve multiple attempts on his life for drawing muhammed with a bomb in his turban? No, appeasement of terrorists or restrictions of rights of your citizens to avoid a conflict with an irrational group never takes you forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The entire evening news has been about this story. While they have been pleading with him and urging him to cancel, I have seen no indication of use of force to prevent him from burning anything.
    I don't believe using force would be a good look for them.this is def a hard topic to deal with.either way they handled this they would be wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    The general response to the Quaran burning in the United States just further fuels my desire for an uprising. THIS MANY people oppose it due to "insensitivity" towards Muslims? WHO GIVES A F*CK?!

    As the original context of this is shown, if this were a Bible burning, it wouldn't have even made the news.
    I agree with you about the sensitivity issue. I couldn't care less if they are upset about a Quran burning, much like they wouldn't care about us after a Bible burning.

    However, I think this guy that is going to burn the Quran is actually an idiot and is proving nothing by doing this. It is just a fact that our current society is not as heavily based on religion as theirs is. As a result, when they burn a Bible, people get upset but nothing further. If we burn a Quran, they will actually retaliate and have already made threats to do so. Thats just the way some of the Muslims are...and there is nothing we can do about it.
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    Easy, I agree 100% that there is a double standard. With that said however, what should be done?

    Over my 34 years I have noticed one constant among the American people, we talk a great game. In this instance, Americans should be upset, but we will all go back to our little lives and receed to the electronic world and b!tch about it. Nothing more. We should stand up to the government about it, but we wont. Why? Simple......this generation rarely had to fight and struggle for anything. That lack of intestinal fortitude has hurt this country greatly and will continue to do so.

    Its a shame really
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Easy, I agree 100% that there is a double standard. With that said however, what should be done?

    Over my 34 years I have noticed one constant among the American people, we talk a great game. In this instance, Americans should be upset, but we will all go back to our little lives and receed to the electronic world and b!tch about it. Nothing more. We should stand up to the government about it, but we wont. Why? Simple......this generation rarely had to fight and struggle for anything. That lack of intestinal fortitude has hurt this country greatly and will continue to do so.

    Its a shame really
    Well, I think we should hold our elected officials accountable. Somehow our journalists need to not be afraid of the policital figures, and not let them weasel out of answers. When hillary clinton said that the burning of Quarans was a despicable terrible act at a press conference, the first question back should have been "Then why did you forcibly remove bibles from military servicemen on a military base, and turn them over to the Afghani Muslims to burn?"

    I think there will be some sort of standing up against it this electoral season, but we'll see how it lasts. Really need to start a non-profit group of "Vote for the non-incumbent" and see if it can raise some money to advertise
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    I am with you Easy, but motivating a lazy society is easier said than done
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I am with you Easy, but motivating a lazy society is easier said than done
    Yeah, the sad thing is that in essence things would have to get a whole lot worse than they are now to motivate people. And the worst part is that a larger and larger segment of our population is basically used to living in close to third world grade conditions (between illegal aliens, etc, birth rates are inversely tied to education levels and as far as i'm concerned intelligence) so that even as crappy as its gotten its still better for them than their country of origin, or it hasn't really gotten much worse for them as we continue to head towards more and more of a nanny state.

    Effectively, common sense is getting bred out of the country, and liberal progressives pander to those groups solely because they are becoming a bigger and bigger voting block. By continuing to nanny them, they become largely dependent on the federal government so will vote for whoever is giving them bread and circuses. And they are oblivious to the fact that just like with classic Rome, or current Greece + France its a non sustainable activity in the long run. Your unborn great grandchildren paying for your healthcare bill doesn't make sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, the sad thing is that in essence things would have to get a whole lot worse than they are now to motivate people. And the worst part is that a larger and larger segment of our population is basically used to living in close to third world grade conditions (between illegal aliens, etc, birth rates are inversely tied to education levels and as far as i'm concerned intelligence) so that even as crappy as its gotten its still better for them than their country of origin, or it hasn't really gotten much worse for them as we continue to head towards more and more of a nanny state.

    Effectively, common sense is getting bred out of the country, and liberal progressives pander to those groups solely because they are becoming a bigger and bigger voting block. By continuing to nanny them, they become largely dependent on the federal government so will vote for whoever is giving them bread and circuses. And they are oblivious to the fact that just like with classic Rome, or current Greece + France its a non sustainable activity in the long run. Your unborn great grandchildren paying for your healthcare bill doesn't make sense.

    I am with you until you make this a liberal political agenda issue. Regardless of party (the 2 main parties are barely different anymore), politicians have been a cancer on society for sometime, and will continue to do so.

    I also couldnt agree more that no one is going to act until it is much worse. The typical response is "I still get by fine" at least where I live.

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    I only state the liberals in this instance as prior to Bush, the conservatives didn't expand entitlement programs anything like the way the liberals do. Bush was a democrat in republican clothing really if you look at what he did. He was just a religiously conservative democrat
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    Well said, most repubs are at this point
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Us curtailing the rights of US citizens (including the right of the miltiary members on a US base to have a bible) solely for the purpose of placating an irrational violent foe just continues to weaken us as a country, and continues to make us look more and more pitiful in the eyes of the Islamic world.
    keep in mind the soliders are not citizens anymore once they join the armed forces, the govenment owns your ass while your enlisted or on active duty. hence the reason for MP's and their own courts and such.

    is it right that soliders had thier bibles taken away, no, probably not but that's not for us to decide now is it?
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    Again, its just they hypocrisy, why is it ok for muslims to burn bibles, but not ok for christians to burn Quarans?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Again, its just they hypocrisy, why is it ok for muslims to burn bibles, but not ok for christians to burn Quarans?
    I def understand what you mean....Like I said in my earlier post, I think it is simply the fact that when they burn our Bibles, we actually do nothing. If we burn the Quran, they will attack. I don't know why people make such an issue out of how "wrong" it is blah blah. The main reason to not burn the Quran should be to avoid any more terrorist threats than already exist.
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    Yeah, but the real answer lies behind Islam's intolerance of other relgions. They view the Quaran as the last testament of God, overriding all the prior religious texts. And as a part of it, you have to consider this

    "And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors." (Qur'an, 2:190-192)
    Which is used as part of the justification of killing, and hating any non-muslims in the more extreme sects. Sure it requires that they only fight "those who fight with you", but that means in the end any group that doesn't do as they say.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, but the real answer lies behind Islam's intolerance of other relgions. They view the Quaran as the last testament of God, overriding all the prior religious texts. And as a part of it, you have to consider this



    Which is used as part of the justification of killing, and hating any non-muslims in the more extreme sects. Sure it requires that they only fight "those who fight with you", but that means in the end any group that doesn't do as they say.....
    Thats a great post to show exactly why people shouldn't burn the Quran. Their intolerance to other religions is insane...and their own books says to fight back. So some knucklehead is going to burn it hahah I just dont get it but people can do whatever they want even if it means putting more Americans in harms way.
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    Yeah, but continuing that logic means pulling out of the middle east entirely, letting them destroy israel, and then continuing on their mission of conquest through the rest of the world, as they can always point to some past dispute as justification....
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The entire evening news has been about this story. While they have been pleading with him and urging him to cancel, I have seen no indication of use of force to prevent him from burning anything.
    You were in the military just like I was.. and you know as well as I do that what the public knows and what really goes on it two different things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, but continuing that logic means pulling out of the middle east entirely, letting them destroy israel, and then continuing on their mission of conquest through the rest of the world, as they can always point to some past dispute as justification....
    I don't know I don't really see them as the same type of thing. Troops are there fighting and actually trying to keep things in check and protect Americans. That serves a purpose. Burning the books makes them angry, and serves no purpose. He isn't making any type of statement. When it comes down to it, the US has the power to actually end the world, I dont think anyone needs to try to make any power statements over the Muslims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt352 View Post
    Thats a great post to show exactly why people shouldn't burn the Quran. Their intolerance to other religions is insane...and their own books says to fight back.
    So essentially we should just bow down to the muslims?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    So essentially we should just bow down to the muslims?
    Not the case at all, we are already handling them overseas...why would you want to cause more problems with them than what we already have?
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    I have no problem with it... burn the Quran, burn the bible, it really means nothing. If you believe in either, the paper it's written on means nothing and the meaning is everything.

    It is his freedom, and shouldn't be silenced, he can protest in any way he deems fit.

    I personally wouldn't do so, only because of General Petraus, and respect his opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I have no problem with it... burn the Quran, burn the bible, it really means nothing. If you believe in either, the paper it's written on means nothing and the meaning is everything.

    It is his freedom, and shouldn't be silenced, he can protest in any way he deems fit.

    I personally wouldn't do so, only because of General Petraus, and respect his opinion.
    I agree with you DAdams....I don't care that the guy actually wants to burn the Quran at all, much like I don't care if Muslims burn the Bible. It's a pointless action. I was just worried about the outcome of the action but I think I read he called it off anyway so whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt352 View Post
    Not the case at all, we are already handling them overseas...why would you want to cause more problems with them than what we already have?
    Of course no one wants to create more problems, but it's a snowball effect. If we're silenced in something like this, burning of books, then we'll surely be silenced in anything else that offends a muslim. Now we have to tip toe around how we feel and how we want to express ourselves. Yes, for every action, there's a reaction. They will see this as yet another sign of weakness. What's to say that they won't suggest that something else we do offends them and next thing ya know, the govt takes away that right or privilege from us. There very well could be consequences for Americans over seas and here...but that's where the government has to stand up...for US, not for THEM.
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