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A Sincere Question for Those Who Condemn the Burning of Korans in America

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Some of our earlier presidents were the only ones with balls... nows its all PC bull****.

    I would love to see an Ex-General president again.
    I wonder if they would be able to exhibit any real power any more. The more I look at Washington the more I see that the President (regardless of affiliation) is nothing more than a puppet.

    I would say the president with balls stopped with TR(with a few minor exceptions afterwards)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Some of our earlier presidents were the only ones with balls... nows its all PC bull****.

    I would love to see an Ex-General president again.
    Petraeus for president!! lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    just need to burn them all at the same time
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
    Just as your unbelief is obviously extremely dear to you.Why is it that atheist seem to have an overwhelming need to prove how much more logical their belief \unbelief ( or whatever) is than of those who believe.Are you trying to prove it to others or yourself?
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    Didn't some muslim in britain burn the US Constitution in protest since US Laws do not follow Islam's laws?
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    We had better not talk about it as it might offend some muslims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Just as your unbelief is obviously extremely dear to you.Why is it that atheist seem to have an overwhelming need to prove how much more logical their belief \unbelief ( or whatever) is than of those who believe.Are you trying to prove it to others or yourself?
    My unbelief is not dear to me...it simply exists due to lack of evidence. Calling a dog a cat a million times will not change the fact that I am not expressing a positive assertion...merely indicating that there is no evidence to claim a positive assertion, therefore that assertion does not exist. A-theist = without belief in god.

    Whereas your typical religious minded folk will continue to profess belief IN SPITE of either lack of evidence or blatant evidence to the contrary, scientists - if presented with credible evidence - gladly shift their worldviews to accommodate the new evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    My unbelief is not dear to me...it simply exists due to lack of evidence. Calling a dog a cat a million times will not change the fact that I am not expressing a positive assertion...merely indicating that there is no evidence to claim a positive assertion, therefore that assertion does not exist. A-theist = without belief in god.

    Whereas your typical religious minded folk will continue to profess belief IN SPITE of either lack of evidence or blatant evidence to the contrary, scientists - if presented with credible evidence - gladly shift their worldviews to accommodate the new evidence.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    My unbelief is not dear to me...it simply exists due to lack of evidence. Calling a dog a cat a million times will not change the fact that I am not expressing a positive assertion...merely indicating that there is no evidence to claim a positive assertion, therefore that assertion does not exist. A-theist = without belief in god.

    Whereas your typical religious minded folk will continue to profess belief IN SPITE of either lack of evidence or blatant evidence to the contrary, scientists - if presented with credible evidence - gladly shift their worldviews to accommodate the new evidence.
    I'd like to think you know what a crock that is. Most scientists are possibly more biased than anyone. Science is hardly based on factual evidence, as much as you or me or anyone would like that to be the case.

    One would like to think that "free scientific inquiry" exists, or even as stated in Atlas Shrugged, "the first word is redundant." - But as we see in real life, and as we see in Atlas Shrugged, it's not at all true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    I'd like to think you know what a crock that is. Most scientists are possibly more biased than anyone. Science is hardly based on factual evidence, as much as you or me or anyone would like that to be the case.

    One would like to think that "free scientific inquiry" exists, or even as stated in Atlas Shrugged, "the first word is redundant." - But as we see in real life, and as we see in Atlas Shrugged, it's not at all true.
    There are always going to be those with agendas. As well, it is human nature to hide in carefully constructed worldviews...but that is as dishonest when committed by scientists as the religious, is it not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    There are always going to be those with agendas. As well, it is human nature to hide in carefully constructed worldviews...but that is as dishonest when committed by scientists as the religious, is it not?
    Yes, it very much is.

    I not only believe that God and Science can co-exist, but are interdependent of one another. - That's my stance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    My unbelief is not dear to me...it simply exists due to lack of evidence. Calling a dog a cat a million times will not change the fact that I am not expressing a positive assertion...merely indicating that there is no evidence to claim a positive assertion, therefore that assertion does not exist. A-theist = without belief in god.

    Whereas your typical religious minded folk will continue to profess belief IN SPITE of either lack of evidence or blatant evidence to the contrary, scientists - if presented with credible evidence - gladly shift their worldviews to accommodate the new evidence.
    The responses you make would say it is dear to you.

    Saying a dog is not a dog a million times...

    What different people will accept as a positive assertion is varied.Not sure what you mean by typical rel. minded folk.I know Dr.s and scientist who believe and even say it was what they have learned in there respective fields that brought them to that belief.

    Even if there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt there would still be people who would not believe because they will accept no ultimate authority higher than themself.

    Actually a theist believes in God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    The responses you make would say it is dear to you.

    Saying a dog is not a dog a million times...

    What different people will accept as a positive assertion is varied.Not sure what you mean by typical rel. minded folk.I know Dr.s and scientist who believe and even say it was what they have learned in there respective fields that brought them to that belief.

    Even if there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt there would still be people who would not believe because they will accept no ultimate authority higher than themself.
    Appeals to authority are logical fallacies and prove nothing.

    What I am saying is that an assertion is put forward by some saying: "There is a god"

    When asked for objective evidence, an appeal is then made to FAITH which specifically forbids objective evidence (faith has to rely on zero evidence, or else it is not faith, it is knowledge). My reply simply being "there is insufficient evidence for me to believe your assertion that there is a god".

    This is enough definition for "atheist"...since all I am saying is "I do not believe your assertion". I never said "I assert that there is no god."

    Wow...dragged once again into not a current events/interesting thread but the same tired crap that never ends.

    Hint to y'all...define your terms. Atheist has a specific bare meaning. Learn it before trying to argue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Appeals to authority are logical fallacies and prove nothing.

    What I am saying is that an assertion is put forward by some saying: "There is a god"

    When asked for objective evidence, an appeal is then made to FAITH which specifically forbids objective evidence (faith has to rely on zero evidence, or else it is not faith, it is knowledge). My reply simply being "there is insufficient evidence for me to believe your assertion that there is a god".

    This is enough definition for "atheist"...since all I am saying is "I do not believe your assertion". I never said "I assert that there is no god."

    Wow...dragged once again into not a current events/interesting thread but the same tired crap that never ends.

    Hint to y'all...define your terms. Atheist has a specific bare meaning. Learn it before trying to argue.
    My reference to Dr.s and scientist had nothing to do with appealing to authority.It had to do with your statement implying that anyone of faith had no logic or understanding of science.

    You were dragged into nothing but rather on many occassions at least involving this subject have dragged others.

    My last comment in my last post was a joke.I thought you were joking when you gave the definition of atheist.I now see from your last comment that was not the case and that you simply believe that any one voicing an oppinion you do not agree with is to stupid to even understand basic english.That being the case I will simply say that says more about you than me.I am done with this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    My reference to Dr.s and scientist had nothing to do with appealing to authority.It had to do with your statement implying that anyone of faith had no logic or understanding of science.

    You were dragged into nothing but rather on many occassions at least involving this subject have dragged others.

    My last comment in my last post was a joke.I thought you were joking when you gave the definition of atheist.I now see from your last comment that was not the case and that you simply believe that any one voicing an oppinion you do not agree with is to stupid to even understand basic english.That being the case I will simply say that says more about you than me.I am done with this.
    As I have learned the hard way on many occasions, this is not necessarily the ideal medium for subtle humor...but thanks for the undeserved personal.
    attack.

    I never said anyone who had faith had logic....I could bring up several people on this board who claim faith, who also claim reason, but have NO illusions that there is anything rational about their faith....simply that they choose irrationality in that particular area of knowledge (or lack thereof) as a personal choice.

    I'm quite fine with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    As I have learned the hard way on many occasions, this is not necessarily the ideal medium for subtle humor...but thanks for the undeserved personal.
    attack.

    I never said anyone who had faith had logic....I could bring up several people on this board who claim faith, who also claim reason, but have NO illusions that there is anything rational about their faith....simply that they choose irrationality in that particular area of knowledge (or lack thereof) as a personal choice.

    I'm quite fine with that.
    You are right about the medium.I took the statement that "even if there were evidence to the contrary..." to imply a lack of reason or logic.Then the two statements about the definition of atheism.

    There is reason to what I believe.

    I did not mean a personal attack by what I said.Just responding the best way I knew how to what seemed to be an attack.Possibly colored by personal experience with some people I know who like to get in peoples faces about their belief that those who do believe are(to put it nicely) not so smart.

    Anyway no offense meant, none taken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Someone tell me why our elected officials and government representatives apply such a double standard on such a regular basis? I have nothing against burning books in protest either way, but find it ludicrous that perpetually a double standard is applied with the US giving in to foreign interests, and condemning US citizens actions. The politics of appeasement don't work, unless your plan is to be subjugated.
    Probably because the US Constitution, and the Freedom of Religion, applies...Well....in the United States. As such, these sort of practices are frowned upon...here....in the United States...where we have Freedom of Religion.

    Why do we have these double standards on such regular bases. Probably because Afghanistan is not part of the United States of America. Heck it's not even in America. I don't see why just because we have Freedom of Religion, you should assume everyone else does.

    It's as simple as that.

    Since we live in the United States,
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    and condemning US citizens actions.
    applies. Since they are the citizens of the US, where Freedom of Religion is applies, said US citizens are condemned for their actions.

    Since, Afghanistan is not United States, where the US Consitution is not valid, then you have to essentially bend down to the country's rules.

    Or to put it in another way. Why are you allowed to freely use marijuana in Amsterdam. But are condemened for doing so here in the states? Yep, because Netherland is not United States, and vice versa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    Probably because the US Constitution, and the Freedom of Religion, applies...Well....in the United States. As such, these sort of practices are frowned upon...here....in the United States...where we have Freedom of Religion.

    Why do we have these double standards on such regular bases. Probably because Afghanistan is not part of the United States of America. Heck it's not even in America. I don't see why just because we have Freedom of Religion, you should assume everyone else does.

    It's as simple as that.

    Since we live in the United States,
    applies. Since they are the citizens of the US, where Freedom of Religion is applies, said US citizens are condemned for their actions.

    Since, Afghanistan is not United States, where the US Consitution is not valid, then you have to essentially bend down to the country's rules.

    Or to put it in another way. Why are you allowed to freely use marijuana in Amsterdam. But are condemened for doing so here in the states? Yep, because Netherland is not United States, and vice versa.
    Sorry, but wrong on both parts. US military bases are considered US soil (a person born on base is a US citizen), and in the US we also have freedom of speech, which covers freedom of expression such as burning bibles, Quarans and flags.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Sorry, but wrong on both parts. US military bases are considered US soil (a person born on base is a US citizen), and in the US we also have freedom of speech, which covers freedom of expression such as burning bibles, Quarans and flags.
    I guess i was wrong. Maybe it is simply that burning the bible is not viewed as badly as burning the quaran. I remember one of the first things that were talked about is whether burning the quaran could encourage terrorist activity. So maybe it is not a matter of "double standard", but more of a... We will not go ape**** if you burn our book, we can just brush it up and move on with our lives. Sure, it burning the bible is not a nice gesture either, but you don't see the "muslim world" having to worry that we will be sending suicide bombers at them for these actions.

    I guess, it's not that burning the bible is any better and or worse than burning the quaran, it is just that unlike the quaran, burning the bible is less likely to encourage such extreme acts of violence, as something like suicide bombing.

    Simply put,
    Burning the bible -> a few upset people.
    Burning the quaran -> 9/11 and or World War 3.
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    Yeah, but its not even like an individual in Afghanistan put out a request for donations of bibles to burn, their government officially required the US military to confiscate and hand over copies of the bible.

    If the only difference standing between whether you do someting or not is the chance of reprecussions, and it is an outside party determining whether and what those reprecussions are, you've already lost most of your freedoms. You are just letting yourself be managed by a bully. Our schools now have all sorts of specialized programs for dealing with bullies, but somehow its not politically correct to recognize them politically
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Pragmatism. I think, deep down, Christians do realize that even a bible is nothing but paper and ink. If you think the physical book holds ANY power or significance, then you are guilty of Idolatry.
    That makes no sense whatsoever. Without the book all a christian has is prayer. Lessons and examples from the book keep you strong in times of weakness. That doesn't exhibit power? On Idolatry, there's no worship of the bible itself. A christian worships God.One of the ways in which he does this is by reading the bible. Jesus quoted from it all the time. Now you'd be saying Jesus is guilty of idolatry. I'm sorry but I find those words a bit offensive. I have no problem when a person says they don't believe in the book and mocks the book or wants to fight me for my beliefs but what I can't stand is people spreading lies and false information. This is how ignorance is born.
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    deep down "mostly" everyone is going to defend what they believe in by bashing other beliefs, I recently starting going to chuch, been reading the bible way before then, but I am still open to other peoples opinions
    like for instance I did not know that buddha was an actual person, that goes to show you ignorance right there, my preacher actually talks about buddha and sais that christians who believe in him will go to hell, wich is not correct but is correct in the christian faith, any god besides the christian god is a false idol, but what most christians who dont do there homework and most AMERICANS who dont embrace the world outside of their cave dont realize is that
    other religions are not only just different in the fact that they have different idols
    they are completely different in worship form and function
    As a christian you live die and worship and give your all to GOD
    other religions people just try to live by words and dont take it so seriously
    other religions pay homage to there life by honoring the life and death of animals less significant than them,
    other religions are born to die for there idol
    what alot of people DONT realize is they know nothing beyond what there own selfishness will let them concieve... let me come back from the limb im on, to make it more simple for the ones who are going to flame me and moch me just by stringing together a bunch of scientific sounding words that are tooooo longgg to use in a social conversation : Take a religion class, they offer them at any major college as ellective
    comparing one religion with another is ignorant
    and downing someones religion is just plain DISRESPECTFUL
    what gives people the nerve to do this, im not sure, wasnt loved enough... overloved?... no discipline ? didnt get there A$$ beat enough coming up? got their A$$ beat too much coming up? no general balance of morals?
  

  
 

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