A Sincere Question for Those Who Condemn the Burning of Korans in America

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You were in the military just like I was.. and you know as well as I do that what the public knows and what really goes on it two different things.

    The Government urging anyone to curtail their freedom is ominous.
    The same can be said about anything. This is about the extent of government efforts against a private citizen to stop him fr4om doing a pretty douchey thing that will needlessly cost American lives. Whether or not they have exerted force against him is unknow, but the assumption has to be no. the government in the name of saving lives urgin a citizen not to do something stupid doesn't concern me.
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  2. The double standard does irritate me though. Remember the lady who drew Mohammad and her demise was attempted. She started up National Draw Mohammad day, but the threats to her life and family were to much.

    When the burn Quran was first mentioned it was responded to with violent protests depicting burning Christians, burning crosses, desecrating christian symbols. He hadn't even burned one book yet.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    The double standard does irritate me though. Remember the lady who drew Mohammad and her demise was attempted. She started up National Draw Mohammad day, but the threats to her life and family were to much.

    When the burn Quran was first mentioned it was responded to with violent protests depicting burning Christians, burning crosses, desecrating christian symbols. He hadn't even burned one book yet.
    Nowehere does rationality enter into religion...that's the problem with the whole racket.

    You cannot demonstrate to them that their behaviour is ridiculous, because some book tells them it's the proper thing to do against the "devils". The same goes in situations like the Salem Witch Trials...some book told some people to "suffer not witches to live" and in the absence of reason, faith told them to burn "witches" (whatever those are).

    If people were not dying because of it, the Dutch cartoon depictions were hilarious satire. Book burning is the retarded equivalent of a statement, but no more or less valid....however the fact remains that the psychotics of the world will react a certain way. KNowing this, the choice to push them to action is going to be on this reverend's head.

    Our forces are there, hopefully demonstrating a mediating presence and practical knowledge to evolve PAST the yoke of religious fervor. Something like this will set us back years and years, and STILL accomplish nothing.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    Of course no one wants to create more problems, but it's a snowball effect. If we're silenced in something like this, burning of books, then we'll surely be silenced in anything else that offends a muslim. Now we have to tip toe around how we feel and how we want to express ourselves. Yes, for every action, there's a reaction. They will see this as yet another sign of weakness. What's to say that they won't suggest that something else we do offends them and next thing ya know, the govt takes away that right or privilege from us. There very well could be consequences for Americans over seas and here...but that's where the government has to stand up...for US, not for THEM.
    This I completely agree with, which was why I was concerned in the first place. If something like the burning happened, and the Muslims did attack, the govt should be right there to have our backs. However, I think we all know how well that would go. They spend more time trying to get this guy to not burn the books than they do just straight up protecting the people.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Nowehere does rationality enter into religion...that's the problem with the whole racket.

    You cannot demonstrate to them that their behaviour is ridiculous, because some book tells them it's the proper thing to do against the "devils". The same goes in situations like the Salem Witch Trials...some book told some people to "suffer not witches to live" and in the absence of reason, faith told them to burn "witches" (whatever those are).

    If people were not dying because of it, the Dutch cartoon depictions were hilarious satire. Book burning is the retarded equivalent of a statement, but no more or less valid....however the fact remains that the psychotics of the world will react a certain way. KNowing this, the choice to push them to action is going to be on this reverend's head.

    Our forces are there, hopefully demonstrating a mediating presence and practical knowledge to evolve PAST the yoke of religious fervor. Something like this will set us back years and years, and STILL accomplish nothing.
    Couldn't agree more...absolutely nothing to accomplish with this action
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Nowehere does rationality enter into religion...that's the problem with the whole racket.

    You cannot demonstrate to them that their behaviour is ridiculous, because some book tells them it's the proper thing to do against the "devils". The same goes in situations like the Salem Witch Trials...some book told some people to "suffer not witches to live" and in the absence of reason, faith told them to burn "witches" (whatever those are).

    If people were not dying because of it, the Dutch cartoon depictions were hilarious satire. Book burning is the retarded equivalent of a statement, but no more or less valid....however the fact remains that the psychotics of the world will react a certain way. KNowing this, the choice to push them to action is going to be on this reverend's head.

    Our forces are there, hopefully demonstrating a mediating presence and practical knowledge to evolve PAST the yoke of religious fervor. Something like this will set us back years and years, and STILL accomplish nothing.
    I don't think it will set us back any further. Accomplish anything? Nope... but that is free speech, don't have to accomplish anything to exercise it.

    As for rationality in religion, that is your view. I have faith myself and find myself to be very rational, so your generalization is using the radicals on both sides to generalize the collective.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Something like this will set us back years and years, and STILL accomplish nothing.
    But our government taking any steps to forcibly stop it from happening will set us back as much at this point. The Islamic radicals will point to it as a sign of weakness, and a sign that America is afraid of them.

    If we only allow free speech when there is no risk of reprisals, then its not free speech anymore.

    Does anyone want to join me in an interfaith book burning to protest the retardation of exterme religious views? We'll get bibles, torahs, quarans, whatever else we can come up with, and toast marshmallows over it.

  8. I personally think the preacher threating to burn the korans should quit his job, bc his relegion is christian, no? Shouldn't he be living in a constant state of god's favor, shouldn't he just turn the other cheek!? Just saying, you may need to practice what you preach.... Literally. Its a shame he could also be a chain smoker and overweight then we would really have a contradiction. I'm sorry if anyone disagrees, I mean no offense. It just saddens me and aggravates me a little when I see people who will get red in the face preaching the word from their bible and don't practice or strive to understand some of the laws they MUST abide by to be a part of their religion.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Does anyone want to join me in an interfaith book burning to protest the retardation of exterme religious views? We'll get bibles, torahs, quarans, whatever else we can come up with, and toast marshmallows over it.
    Even as an athiest I find this distasteful.

    First off, lets all realize the protest has been suspended. The pastor is currently under the impression that the mosque will not be built near ground zero, which is untrue. So we will see if it happens or not.

    No one, and I mean no one, should call or want the government to censor this. The government should have no force in this occuring or not occuring. Anyone who states that they should is advocating censorship, which is very anti freespeech. Now with that said, this shouldn't happen. It is disrespectful and distasteful.

    As I stated in another thread, you are targeting a religion based on a handful of ****tards that make up an extreme minority of the group. But who cares? This is America! **** Yea!

    Grow up people. The burning is in very poor taste.
    Oh, some claim that they would burn bibles, but do we have to goto their level?

    Next time you want to generalize about a religion, think about the amount of christian leaders who wouldnt think twice before sticking their **** in your child's ass. Is this the group I should use to judge all christians?
    Just inject.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by 10bathroomsO View Post
    I personally think the preacher threating to burn the korans should quit his job, bc his relegion is christian, no? Shouldn't he be living in a constant state of god's favor, shouldn't he just turn the other cheek!? Just saying, you may need to practice what you preach.... Literally. Its a shame he could also be a chain smoker and overweight then we would really have a contradiction. I'm sorry if anyone disagrees, I mean no offense. It just saddens me and aggravates me a little when I see people who will get red in the face preaching the word from their bible and don't practice or strive to understand some of the laws they MUST abide by to be a part of their religion.
    Now, I'm not a proponent of what he's doing (I honestly don't care one way or the other), but I don't really see what is so terrible about burning the Quaran. I don't believe (please, correct me if I'm wrong) he's preaching hate towards Muslims, only their belief system.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Even as an athiest I find this distasteful.

    First off, lets all realize the protest has been suspended. The pastor is currently under the impression that the mosque will not be built near ground zero, which is untrue. So we will see if it happens or not.

    No one, and I mean no one, should call or want the government to censor this. The government should have no force in this occuring or not occuring. Anyone who states that they should is advocating censorship, which is very anti freespeech. Now with that said, this shouldn't happen. It is disrespectful and distasteful.

    As I stated in another thread, you are targeting a religion based on a handful of ****tards that make up an extreme minority of the group. But who cares? This is America! **** Yea!

    Grow up people. The burning is in very poor taste.
    Oh, some claim that they would burn bibles, but do we have to goto their level?

    Next time you want to generalize about a religion, think about the amount of christian leaders who wouldnt think twice before sticking their **** in your child's ass. Is this the group I should use to judge all christians?
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    Now, I'm not a proponent of what he's doing (I honestly don't care one way or the other), but I don't really see what is so terrible about burning the Quaran. I don't believe (please, correct me if I'm wrong) he's preaching hate towards Muslims, only their belief system.
    Look at the reaction of some Christians when you question their belief systems. Unlike most anything in the world, religious belief systems become an ovberwhelming force in personal identity - which means questioning their belief systems IS an attack on them personally.

    Rational people don't attach significance to paper and ink, but the message contained therein...but the fact remains that they are not rational.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    Probably...but hopefully those responsible will be investigated, prosecuted, and sent to rot in prison.

    Then, it will just be rebuilt anyway.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    I would assume the same... and it wouldn't be about religion, it would be about spitting in the eye of the families of the fallen.

    Victory Mosque's are all over the world on conquered land... I just don't think American citizens will stand for it.

    Bari mosque in India, the Fethiye Camii in Turkey, the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus, the Qutub Minar in Afghanistan, the Asqa Mosque in the Hague (formerly a Synagogue), and of course all in Israel: the Al Asqa Mosque/ al-Haram ash-Sharif, the Mosque in Tomb of the Patriarchs, the mosque attached to the Rambam shul
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
    Just inject.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Look at the reaction of some Christians when you question their belief systems. Unlike most anything in the world, religious belief systems become an ovberwhelming force in personal identity - which means questioning their belief systems IS an attack on them personally.

    Rational people don't attach significance to paper and ink, but the message contained therein...but the fact remains that they are not rational.
    Thats where the double standard comes in. It is okay to attack Christian beliefs in America today, but hands of islam.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
    How in the world did you every derive that from his statement? You are seriously twisting words if you pulled that from there.

    No one said burning it to the ground was right... just that it will most likely happen.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How in the world did you every derive that from his statement? You are seriously twisting words if you pulled that from there.

    No one said burning it to the ground was right... just that it will most likely happen.
    I wasn't accusing gamer of that, I know him enough (at least I think) to know he is not advocating it. I am just calling it like it is. If a muslim burned a church down it would receive a much larger reaction then the opposite.
    Just inject.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
    Not saying I am for or against that; not gonna lie more for than agains though... More like modern crusaiders again, guess you can call them terrorists.. I have been stripped of rights to please other cultures/religions.. ****, I couldnt say Christmas in my high school, but if you were islamic, you had an Islamic club and could where an Islamic shirt to school and celebrate Eve or Ede, whatever it is called.. Hell, I think they even had a certain day to wear the stupid shirt.. But hell, if I wear a Christian shirt, I get sent home..

  20. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I wasn't accusing gamer of that, I know him enough (at least I think) to know he is not advocating it. I am just calling it like it is. If a muslim burned a church down it would receive a much larger reaction then the opposite.
    Oh that is ****ing bull****. You know that. If a white christian burns down a mosque he will be ****ing crucified (no pun intended)... and you know that damn well. The state of America is catering to muslim faith, especially with the liberal lean hating Christians as it is.

    If you really believe what you just said you are blind to the social-political climate we live in today.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Thats where the double standard comes in. It is okay to attack Christian beliefs in America today, but hands of islam.
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
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  22. I doubt it will manage to actually be built, the unions will likely make a disaster of it alone.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    Not saying I am for or against that; not gonna lie more for than agains though... More like modern crusaiders again, guess you can call them terrorists.. I have been stripped of rights to please other cultures/religions.. ****, I couldnt say Christmas in my high school, but if you were islamic, you had an Islamic club and could where an Islamic shirt to school and celebrate Eve or Ede, whatever it is called.. Hell, I think they even had a certain day to wear the stupid shirt.. But hell, if I wear a Christian shirt, I get sent home..
    You can't even wear an American flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo as well.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Oh that is ****ing bull****. You know that. If a white christian burns down a mosque he will be ****ing crucified (no pun intended)... and you know that damn well. The state of America is catering to muslim faith, especially with the liberal lean hating Christians as it is.

    If you really believe what you just said you are blind to the social-political climate we live in today.
    Trure true true...

  25. I mean to me bro its whatever you believe in, I'm not a part of any religion not bc I don't believe bc I am not in any way ready for that type of devotion, but yes you are wrong and I don't mean that in a demeaning way I'm just correcting, in the christian faith he should not retaliate and if he is even feeling hatred for someone intense enough to do something like that he should be repenting for feeling that way, its so sad how american christians somehow single themselves out, like they believe that god created the whole world and all the people on it, but yet they are so patriotic they will discard some of the biggest influence from their bible to get social aproval by making such an aggravated reaction, you wouldn't know bc more than 70 percent of christians don't even know the history behind their religion and all the wars it has caused and debate and anger and hatred, to me it has be a mass confusion from the start, if you read the bible in the mind state you believe a christian should have you see a super conservative life gridlocked to praise and laws that you must follow and strive to truelly feel the impact of your mistakes when doing those kind of wrongs, and then repent. But no there are these people spawning off little hate consumed bible bred idiots, I think they should stop, put the bible down and suit up with a assualt rifle and go fight in the war bc in their religion, fueling the fire is just as bad as being the fire

  26. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You can't even wear an American flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo as well.
    I really dont get what America is trying to accomplish now.... A downward slope towards disaster is what I see..

  27. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
    No, the problematic part that I see as well (having no religious beliefs) is that our government is not dealing with all religions equally. They are literally funding the Imam's trip to do fundraising to build a mosque. Yet displaying the 10 commandments at a courthouse was deemed unconstitutional. Its a travesty that our government is so full of hypocrisy.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
    And you would be wrong. I do find it comical that atheists are religious in believing in non belief and must spread their word to anyone who listens, but then turns their cheek to chastise another for merely whispering their beliefs.
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    And you would be wrong. I do find it comical that atheists are religious in believing in non belief and must spread their word to anyone who listens, but then turns their cheek to chastise another for merely whispering their beliefs.
    The whole "atheism is just another religion" argument is thoroughly discredited and ridiculous, at this pooint trotting that one out is purposely being intellectually dishonest.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The whole "atheism is just another religion" argument is thoroughly discredited and ridiculous, at this pooint trotting that one out is purposely being intellectually dishonest.
    Isn't it ironic that you make your way into every thread that mentions religion here on AM to preach your word? I know a few true athiests that could just care less about religion and feels no need to thrust their views upon those who do believe.
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