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A Sincere Question for Those Who Condemn the Burning of Korans in America

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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Even as an athiest I find this distasteful.

    First off, lets all realize the protest has been suspended. The pastor is currently under the impression that the mosque will not be built near ground zero, which is untrue. So we will see if it happens or not.

    No one, and I mean no one, should call or want the government to censor this. The government should have no force in this occuring or not occuring. Anyone who states that they should is advocating censorship, which is very anti freespeech. Now with that said, this shouldn't happen. It is disrespectful and distasteful.

    As I stated in another thread, you are targeting a religion based on a handful of ****tards that make up an extreme minority of the group. But who cares? This is America! **** Yea!

    Grow up people. The burning is in very poor taste.
    Oh, some claim that they would burn bibles, but do we have to goto their level?

    Next time you want to generalize about a religion, think about the amount of christian leaders who wouldnt think twice before sticking their **** in your child's ass. Is this the group I should use to judge all christians?
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    Now, I'm not a proponent of what he's doing (I honestly don't care one way or the other), but I don't really see what is so terrible about burning the Quaran. I don't believe (please, correct me if I'm wrong) he's preaching hate towards Muslims, only their belief system.
    Look at the reaction of some Christians when you question their belief systems. Unlike most anything in the world, religious belief systems become an ovberwhelming force in personal identity - which means questioning their belief systems IS an attack on them personally.

    Rational people don't attach significance to paper and ink, but the message contained therein...but the fact remains that they are not rational.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    Probably...but hopefully those responsible will be investigated, prosecuted, and sent to rot in prison.

    Then, it will just be rebuilt anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    I would assume the same... and it wouldn't be about religion, it would be about spitting in the eye of the families of the fallen.

    Victory Mosque's are all over the world on conquered land... I just don't think American citizens will stand for it.

    Bari mosque in India, the Fethiye Camii in Turkey, the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus, the Qutub Minar in Afghanistan, the Asqa Mosque in the Hague (formerly a Synagogue), and of course all in Israel: the Al Asqa Mosque/ al-Haram ash-Sharif, the Mosque in Tomb of the Patriarchs, the mosque attached to the Rambam shul
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    If that mosque is built near G-zero, it will be burnt to the ground.
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Look at the reaction of some Christians when you question their belief systems. Unlike most anything in the world, religious belief systems become an ovberwhelming force in personal identity - which means questioning their belief systems IS an attack on them personally.

    Rational people don't attach significance to paper and ink, but the message contained therein...but the fact remains that they are not rational.
    Thats where the double standard comes in. It is okay to attack Christian beliefs in America today, but hands of islam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
    How in the world did you every derive that from his statement? You are seriously twisting words if you pulled that from there.

    No one said burning it to the ground was right... just that it will most likely happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How in the world did you every derive that from his statement? You are seriously twisting words if you pulled that from there.

    No one said burning it to the ground was right... just that it will most likely happen.
    I wasn't accusing gamer of that, I know him enough (at least I think) to know he is not advocating it. I am just calling it like it is. If a muslim burned a church down it would receive a much larger reaction then the opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Which would be no better than terrorism. But its not terrorism if they are white christians?
    Not saying I am for or against that; not gonna lie more for than agains though... More like modern crusaiders again, guess you can call them terrorists.. I have been stripped of rights to please other cultures/religions.. ****, I couldnt say Christmas in my high school, but if you were islamic, you had an Islamic club and could where an Islamic shirt to school and celebrate Eve or Ede, whatever it is called.. Hell, I think they even had a certain day to wear the stupid shirt.. But hell, if I wear a Christian shirt, I get sent home..
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I wasn't accusing gamer of that, I know him enough (at least I think) to know he is not advocating it. I am just calling it like it is. If a muslim burned a church down it would receive a much larger reaction then the opposite.
    Oh that is ****ing bull****. You know that. If a white christian burns down a mosque he will be ****ing crucified (no pun intended)... and you know that damn well. The state of America is catering to muslim faith, especially with the liberal lean hating Christians as it is.

    If you really believe what you just said you are blind to the social-political climate we live in today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Thats where the double standard comes in. It is okay to attack Christian beliefs in America today, but hands of islam.
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
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    I doubt it will manage to actually be built, the unions will likely make a disaster of it alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    Not saying I am for or against that; not gonna lie more for than agains though... More like modern crusaiders again, guess you can call them terrorists.. I have been stripped of rights to please other cultures/religions.. ****, I couldnt say Christmas in my high school, but if you were islamic, you had an Islamic club and could where an Islamic shirt to school and celebrate Eve or Ede, whatever it is called.. Hell, I think they even had a certain day to wear the stupid shirt.. But hell, if I wear a Christian shirt, I get sent home..
    You can't even wear an American flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Oh that is ****ing bull****. You know that. If a white christian burns down a mosque he will be ****ing crucified (no pun intended)... and you know that damn well. The state of America is catering to muslim faith, especially with the liberal lean hating Christians as it is.

    If you really believe what you just said you are blind to the social-political climate we live in today.
    Trure true true...
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    I mean to me bro its whatever you believe in, I'm not a part of any religion not bc I don't believe bc I am not in any way ready for that type of devotion, but yes you are wrong and I don't mean that in a demeaning way I'm just correcting, in the christian faith he should not retaliate and if he is even feeling hatred for someone intense enough to do something like that he should be repenting for feeling that way, its so sad how american christians somehow single themselves out, like they believe that god created the whole world and all the people on it, but yet they are so patriotic they will discard some of the biggest influence from their bible to get social aproval by making such an aggravated reaction, you wouldn't know bc more than 70 percent of christians don't even know the history behind their religion and all the wars it has caused and debate and anger and hatred, to me it has be a mass confusion from the start, if you read the bible in the mind state you believe a christian should have you see a super conservative life gridlocked to praise and laws that you must follow and strive to truelly feel the impact of your mistakes when doing those kind of wrongs, and then repent. But no there are these people spawning off little hate consumed bible bred idiots, I think they should stop, put the bible down and suit up with a assualt rifle and go fight in the war bc in their religion, fueling the fire is just as bad as being the fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You can't even wear an American flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo as well.
    I really dont get what America is trying to accomplish now.... A downward slope towards disaster is what I see..
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
    No, the problematic part that I see as well (having no religious beliefs) is that our government is not dealing with all religions equally. They are literally funding the Imam's trip to do fundraising to build a mosque. Yet displaying the 10 commandments at a courthouse was deemed unconstitutional. Its a travesty that our government is so full of hypocrisy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
    And you would be wrong. I do find it comical that atheists are religious in believing in non belief and must spread their word to anyone who listens, but then turns their cheek to chastise another for merely whispering their beliefs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    And you would be wrong. I do find it comical that atheists are religious in believing in non belief and must spread their word to anyone who listens, but then turns their cheek to chastise another for merely whispering their beliefs.
    The whole "atheism is just another religion" argument is thoroughly discredited and ridiculous, at this pooint trotting that one out is purposely being intellectually dishonest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The whole "atheism is just another religion" argument is thoroughly discredited and ridiculous, at this pooint trotting that one out is purposely being intellectually dishonest.
    Isn't it ironic that you make your way into every thread that mentions religion here on AM to preach your word? I know a few true athiests that could just care less about religion and feels no need to thrust their views upon those who do believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Oh that is ****ing bull****. You know that. If a white christian burns down a mosque he will be ****ing crucified (no pun intended)... and you know that damn well. The state of America is catering to muslim faith, especially with the liberal lean hating Christians as it is.

    If you really believe what you just said you are blind to the social-political climate we live in today.
    I wouldn't say bull****, but maybe I will give you that it was a bit of an exaggeration. The hate towards islam is significantly larger than the hate towards christians. Dsade's comment below is very accurate.

    I am a liberal, and I hate all relgions equally. I see them all as the opium of the masses. But I don't hate the religious, and don't judge them on it. I don't cater to the muslim faith more than any other faith, I have no reason to. But I like to call it like it is, and being outside the realm of religion, I can more easily distinguish the wrongs on both sides of the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, this is where you are wrong. Rationalists/secular humanists/atheists (whatever word you want to use) points out the absurdity of ALL religions without fail. You feel more persecuted because your beliefs are more dear to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The whole "atheism is just another religion" argument is thoroughly discredited and ridiculous, at this pooint trotting that one out is purposely being intellectually dishonest.
    ^This is true, and I mentioned a similar comment in the previous thread on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Isn't it ironic that you make your way into every thread that mentions religion here on AM to preach your word? I know a few true athiests that could just care less about religion and feels no need to thrust their views upon those who do believe.
    Unfortunately, I too would like to never have to discuss religion, but it seems to be the forefront of politics in this country. Which is sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, the problematic part that I see as well (having no religious beliefs) is that our government is not dealing with all religions equally. They are literally funding the Imam's trip to do fundraising to build a mosque. Yet displaying the 10 commandments at a courthouse was deemed unconstitutional. Its a travesty that our government is so full of hypocrisy.
    Well said Easy, I agree with you 100%
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Actually, there is a bit truth to that statement. It depends a little on which definition you use, but generally atheists 'believe' that there is no a god. They base that on the fact that there is no proof for the existence of a god. While that is true, that doesn't exclude the fact there could be a god. Same example is saying there is no proof for life outside of the earth, but that doesn't mean there couldn't a blue Gojo living somewhere in the Andromeda Galaxy.

    Agnosticism OTOH takes no position, and says basically the existence of a god is unknown or unknowable. All options are open.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    Prove it
    While my comment was sarcastic in nature, that argument in itself is what bothers me about religions. Its a mirror of glen beck politics.

    The fact that I cant prove the non-existence of something, doesnt mean that it exists. It is up to those who believe in the extraordinary to prove otherwise. Besides the equivalent of hearsay, they can't.
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    Hey come on now, Beck is right about 60% of the time
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Hey come on now, Beck is right about 60% of the time
    Oh man, I know your throwing a bone to the dogs with that one, so before I react with the expected growling, Im going back to enjoying my puppy chow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Oh man, I know your throwing a bone to the dogs with that one, so before I react with the expected growling, Im going back to enjoying my puppy chow.
    I have to turn him off when he goes on a religion rant, but otherwise a fair bit of what he says has accuracy, a higher accuracy rate than Obama or Joe Biden "When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed"....

    Its impossible to argue that each time payroll tax rates were lowered that actual US tax dollars coming in to the federal government has gone up, as its well documented statistically. Bits and pieces of what he says go off on a tangent though. His show has gotten more religion based as time has gone on, so I listen to him less and less
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    I basically agree with your reasoning, but atheism is still a bit hypocrite IMO. Heck, I don't believe in a god either and possibilities are quite huge there are none. But claiming there is no god without substantial prove is a form of religion also.
    No, that isn't a logically sound argument. Disbelieving in what is not provable is rational. Believing in god is no different in that respect than believing in karma, four leaf clovers, or voodoo dolls. Disbeliving in those things because there is no proof of their existence or effectiveness is based on rational thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    ... if this were a Bible burning, it wouldn't have even made the news.
    Actually it did make the news not to long ago! Check it out...

    US Army burns Bibles

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/w...el?_s=PM:WORLD

    But it didn't even make a ripple in the news, compared to the tidal wave this Quran thing has generated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, that isn't a logically sound argument. Disbelieving in what is not provable is rational. Believing in god is no different in that respect than believing in karma, four leaf clovers, or voodoo dolls. Disbeliving in those things because there is no proof of their existence or effectiveness is based on rational thought.
    I see your point, but that is not logically true either. In life, odds are all we really have to count on, and 100% certain is technically never achievable. For example, I have no proof that the sun will rise in the sky tomorrow. But based on the available evidence, I am 99.99999% sure enough such that I will go ahead and schedule may day with that assumption, based on statistical probability.

    In other words, it is best NOT to form a conclusion, if you can't substantiate it with at least 50% or greater odds. If you choose a side, you may be right or you may be wrong, but if you remain agnostic and don't choose for absence of evidence, you are necessarily not wrong. Know what I mean, EZ?
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    Just as an aside easy, there was a Muslim prayer room in the twin towers, which I guess constitues the towers as a mosque. Justan FYI
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Just as an aside easy, there was a Muslim prayer room in the twin towers, which I guess constitues the towers as a mosque. Justan FYI
    The twin towers weren't built with specific internal plans of that being there, it was rented out space.
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    Okay, I've just kind of been reading for the most part, but I'm going to lay out some further hypocrisy...

    Ground Zero Mosque in NY:

    *Un-American to ask where the funding comes from
    *Imam supports Iranian revolution (the same people that stone women, hang gays/lesbians, and kill adulterers)
    *Built on the site of conquest
    *Imam is totally rational and mainstream

    Terry Jones:

    *Said to be a crazy lunatic pastor when he's done nothing but exercise his 1st amendment rights
    *Double-crossed by the FL imam
    *Told IF HE STOPS THE BURNING OF THE BOOK he can come to "talk" with the Ground Zero imam (NOTE: He has to stop, but the GZ Mosque imam doesn't - Putting himself in control) - This was only after they said that the mosque wouldn't be built

    Fck them all. I'm sick of this BS.

    ‎"Moral cowardice is fear of upholding the good because it is good, and fear of opposing the evil because it is evil." - My faith upholds the good, and my guns take on my adversaries.

    I do nothing but live my life and let others live theirs, yet I'm being attacked and so are many other Americans. This $hit needs to get turned around. If America won't do it, I'll join the IDF. I don't give a fck anymore. America is only an idea anymore.

    Réabhlóid !
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    The twin towers weren't built with specific internal plans of that being there, it was rented out space.
    that is truly neither here nor there. The fact is that there was prayer at the twin towers.

    At the end of the day, I hae n o issue with the burning of bibles or qu'rans to be honest. I think it is a good start
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    that is truly neither here nor there. The fact is that there was prayer at the twin towers.

    At the end of the day, I hae n o issue with the burning of bibles or qu'rans to be honest. I think it is a good start
    just need to burn them all at the same time
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    Okay, I've just kind of been reading for the most part, but I'm going to lay out some further hypocrisy...

    Ground Zero Mosque in NY:

    *Un-American to ask where the funding comes from
    *Imam supports Iranian revolution (the same people that stone women, hang gays/lesbians, and kill adulterers)
    *Built on the site of conquest
    *Imam is totally rational and mainstream

    Terry Jones:

    *Said to be a crazy lunatic pastor when he's done nothing but exercise his 1st amendment rights
    *Double-crossed by the FL imam
    *Told IF HE STOPS THE BURNING OF THE BOOK he can come to "talk" with the Ground Zero imam (NOTE: He has to stop, but the GZ Mosque imam doesn't - Putting himself in control) - This was only after they said that the mosque wouldn't be built

    Fck them all. I'm sick of this BS.

    ‎"Moral cowardice is fear of upholding the good because it is good, and fear of opposing the evil because it is evil." - My faith upholds the good, and my guns take on my adversaries.

    I do nothing but live my life and let others live theirs, yet I'm being attacked and so are many other Americans. This $hit needs to get turned around. If America won't do it, I'll join the IDF. I don't give a fck anymore. America is only an idea anymore.

    Réabhlóid !
    America has been only an idea since the early 20th century. All of these troubles go back to some of our earlier wonderful Presidents
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    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    just need to burn them all at the same time
    I will light the match with you
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    America has been only an idea since the early 20th century. All of these troubles go back to some of our earlier wonderful Presidents
    Some of our earlier presidents were the only ones with balls... nows its all PC bull****.

    I would love to see an Ex-General president again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Some of our earlier presidents were the only ones with balls... nows its all PC bull****.

    I would love to see an Ex-General president again.
    Marine type!
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