Jergo said:
Is this a joke? The Clintons were one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of this country. Even if you take the corruption factor out they are both the most dishonest liars. Do a little research on them.
That is one of the main things that put me over the edge with Bush. However, do you really think Kerry is going to shut down the boarders and keep illegal aliens out? Most minorities vote democrat. He will be kicking out or stopping potential voters. Both Kerry and Bush come from extremely privileged backgrounds. They both went to Yale and are both members of the Skull and Bones.
First of all if you want to talk about shady do a little research into the Clinton Administration. There are many areas to choose from.
It depends on how they do the polls. For a poll to be accurate they need to talk to register voters. That being said it probably has allot to do with the coverage of the prison scandal. If the press ever lets that story go you will probably see Bush's numbers go up a bit. IMO it's to early to tell. August is the time to start paying attention to polls. Bush could be in trouble though. If Iraq gets worse in some way he could be in big trouble. There is also the Hillary factor to consider. Bush is vulnerable. That means the democrats have a shot at the white house. If a democrat wins Hillary can't run for president for 8 years and they loose control of the DNC. If Kerry doesn't choose her for VP the Clintons will do everything they can to cut Kerry's legs out from under him so she can run in 2008.
He did that too. IMO there is enough evidence that both Bill and Hillary could have been literally prosecuted for treason. There was so much money coming in from foreign sources it was unbelievable. They sold the nuclear materials to North Korea and technology to China. Even with Hillary's senate campaign there was a pardon for votes scandal. She even lied about where their daughter was on 9-11. For some reason she gets no tough questions and a free pass from the press. There is just so much stuff out there on them I just really don't understand why anyone would support them still. I am conservative but I would never vote for Nixon.
VanillaGorilla said:
VanillaGorilla said:
VanillaGorilla said:
houseman said:How about a President who lied to start a war on false pretense and personal vendeta?
houseman said:How about a President who lied to start a war on false pretense and personal vendeta?
No that is not what I mean. Of all the things I have mentioned all ready about why Clintons were the most corrupt administration notice I didn't mention Lewinski? He wasn't the first president to be impeached because he had an Affair. He was impeached for perjury, subornation of perjury, and abuse of power. There is also evidence that is sealed for at least ten years in the impeachment. It is safe to say that he probably raped Juanita Broadrick. Private investigators in the Paula Jones case came forward saying that he had raped a 14 year old girl who had passes out at one of Dan Lasiters coke parties which Bubba frequently attended. Also every woman who came foward they they had an affair with Bubba was audited by the IRS. That is also illegal and one of the things Nixon did.
What good did they do? Raise taxes and steal the republicans agenda? Let me ask you a question. If you got into an accident and hurt your eye.There is a 50 % chance that you will never see again. Who would you want operating on you? Would you want the most skilled doctor graduating at the top of his class? Or would you rather have someone who went to a college that didn't have grades and was told what branch of medicine to go into by the government? That's what Hillary wants.
It is also ILLEGAL. So your basically saying that the Clintons knew money was coming in from China and because of this they did China a favor by selling them technology that they didn't have. The technology that the sold them is a security threat to us. That is pretty close to the definition of treason. The reason North Korean has nukes now is because the Clinton Administration sold it to them. They said North Korea promised that they wouldn't use it for weapons. Hello?
I didn't say politicians are honest. However, the Clintons lie about everything. They are the definition of the word sleaze.
Well preferably lies less or is more honest and is less shady.lol
What presidents have done the same? What did he do that you liked?
Good point about Clinton and the WMDs. I know many people want to believe that Bush just wanted to go into Iraq and deliberately lied about it. This appears to be not the case. Apparently most of the intelligence came from one person who was getting paid by another country to feed us bad information. Another point that I would like to bring up is Clinton had four chances to get Bin Laden. In one he was offered to us on a silver platter and Clinton declined. He was caught on tape talking about this. Apparently he didn't know he was being recorder because he lied about it to the 9-11 commission.
That's what worries me that they sent the WMDs some where else.
VanillaGorilla said:
Every thing I mentioned holds water. The only thing that aren't facts are the rape charges. Which probably did happen. There is plenty of evidence on the Clintons and by your last post you laid out a case for treason with out realizing it.
What are the disgusting things that Bush has done and what proof is there?
The hearings on campaign scandals were killed if I remember correctly. Some people were prosecuted but they could have gone much higher on the food chain. They could have tried Hillary for perjury but didn't. The agreement they made with Bill was ridiculous. They should have charged them but imo didn't have the balls to do so.
No what I am saying is Hillary wants to get rid of grades all together and wants the government to decide who goes into medicine and what field they will go into. Now if that type of socialized medicine program is implemented , do you think the quality of your care is going to go up or down? We can see from the systems in Canada and Europe that the quality will go down. In other words do you want someone who is driven and smart enough to get through medical school and be a good Dr. operating on you or someone who got into medical school on some type of warped affirmative action program?
From what your saying if I am trading wrong for wrongs is that the Clintons are just as flawed as you believe Bush to be. Why would you vote for someone like that? We know they lie about stupid minute things. Which means they would and do lie about bigger and more important things. Hillary unlike Bill is driven by ideology instead of polls. Which means if she runs you will have perhaps one of the most far left senators in the country running. Which means your taxes will go up to about 50%. This is a person who lied about were her daughter was on 9-11 to get her fat ass on TV and more publicity. Their marriage is a sham. From what she said in her book about the lewinski affair you are left with two options. She is either the stupidest person in the world or she is lying. I believe Hillary is allot of things but being stupid isn't one of them. Based on the fact they she hired private investigators before running for pres. to see how bad Bill's sexual appetite was and she knew about his many previous indiscretions, it's safe to say she is lying about that as well. So if you want to vote for a corrupt lying socialist with hooves be my guest. Don't be in shock when half your pay checks gone each week and the country is put through ever more crap.
VanillaGorilla said:
VanillaGorilla said:
Seriously tho, in all honesty, most administrations do some shady sh*t. As for terror threats and gas prices, I think they are perfect tools for political manipulation. All summer we hear threats, then Homeland security bust terrorist cells in 5 different cities. Good job Bush! All summer gas prices have been skyrocketing, then Bush cuts taxes or finds a new source of oil and we are saved! You see my thinking? Again, this could all be wrong, but I honestly don't like the guy, and don't trust him. I mean for god's sake we know the man did coke when he was younger. I'm not one to hold a grudge, but I dont know if I want some one like that running the most powerful country in the world. You are making a lot of valid points on this thread, but that doesn't change my vote. In my eyes this man is destroying our credibility around the world. Kerry 2004!!!!!!!
VanillaGorilla said:
Deoudes59 said:
What are you talking about with this?
Yes there is. There is a lot of information out there. I could post many news articles and there have been many books written on the subject or many subject pertaining to the Clinton scandals. I have raised several aspects to them that do hold water. If you choose to ignore them that's fine. As I said before you laid out a good case for treason against them.
Juanita Braodricks friend saw her shortly after the alleged rape occurred. She stated that her lip was in horrible shape and she was shook up and crying. Braodrick said Clinton almost bit her lip off when he raped her before that. Clinton was in Arkansas at the time she said the rape occurred. A friend of Elizabeth Ward Gracen said that Grancen had told her she didn't want to have sex with Clinton and he was very rough with her. Gracens friend felt that it was rape. I believe it was 20/20 that ran an interview with Broadrick. Everyone associated with the story felt she was creditable. The one time Clinton was asked about it he didn't deny it and referred them to his lawyer. Broadrick didn't come forward with it when it happened which many rape victims do. She told her husband about it long before she came forward. Then you can factor in Clintons past behavior. He was using the police that guard him as pimps to pick up woman. He was constantly having affairs. He was probably using allot of coke at the time as well. He was frequently seen going to parties at Dan lasiters House. His own brother was caught on a surveillance tape saying is you thing I am bad with drugs you should see my brother. Then you have members of congress and senate who viewed the sealed evidence say that changed their mind about impeaching Clinton. That builds a pretty good circumstantial case.The statue of limitations ran out before Broadrick came forward in case you didn't know.
I am backing up what I am saying. If you want to dismiss it and not bother to look into it that's not my problem. Are you backing up what you are saying? I asked you a few times what are the horrible things that Bush has done and what evidence is there and you haven't done so.
You mean like the conspiracies that Bush just went into Iraq for the hell of it and knows where Bin Laden is?
First of all I didn't resort to name calling at all. I did say a Dem. Adm. is something bad........ I said that a Hillary administration is something bad. Second I think that both sides rep. and dem . are part of the problem. So if you are saying I am a partisan Republican I am not.
You really haven't and you obviously don't know what was in Hillary's socialized medicine bill that failed to get any where.
What points have you made? You say Bush has done " A LOT of the disgusting things Bush has done , there is proof that he's done them" and "Go read the newspaper holmes...and figure that out for yourself.... " Is this backing up what you say? You haven't answered what specifically he has done and what proof there is. If you can than do it. I offered plenty of material backing what I said and you haven't.
Well allot of what is on here is about steroids, which I know a little bit about but not enough to contribute in that area. As for training and supplements I do what I can.
The most of the media has a significant left wing bias. They just did a poll were 34 % of journalist identify them selves as liberal, around 50% as Moderate and only 7% as conservative. Some one pointed out that the moderates were probably liberal because they are going by the upper west side of Manhattan's definition of moderate. The conservative media are fox news, the wall street journal and the Washington times. The counties main paper the New York times is the template that most journalist use for stories. The problem is the Times are biased to the left. I have a problem with a biased to the left or right. What ever happened to just the facts?
Kerry will not shut down the border. Ted Kennedy has a lot to do with our current immigration policy. There is no way Kerry will go against him. Kerry was shown to have a more liberal voting record than Ted. Also, there are many people want an open boarder who lobby the dems. As I said before the democrats have a high percentage of minorities voting for them. I have a better chance of getting doubled up on by Brittany Spears and Jessica Simpson than Kerry shutting down the boarders. The only politician that I know of that would do it or said he would is Pat Buchanan.
Don't you think this hurts them more than it helps them? If I own a business and my gas cost are threw the roof I am not going to change my mind about it just because gas prices go down right before an election. The same thing with the terror alerts. To me that just says they aren't doing a good job. I guess if they busted a terrorist ring here it would be different though.
The only problem was Clinton did coke as well.
The guy can't give a straight answer about anything. A lot of people think he is against the war but he isn't. He wants to have the UN involved more but doesn't say how he would do that. He can't even answer if he owns an SUV.
You can say Bush made a bad decision and can't compete a simple sentence but you can't say he lied. What has come out is that much of the intelligence we receive was from someone who was getting paid to feed us bad information. You can criticize him for basing going into Iraq mainly from one source but at the time he made the decision he did not know that there were no WMDs. I am not totally convinced that there weren't any. My greatest fear is that they moved to Syria. My problem with him is that he told us there are WMDs and now he saying the reason we are going in is to liberate the Iraqi people. Also Halburton also got contracts under Clinton.
I is important to know a lot about the person you are going to vote for. Kerry lies about everything and will not pull out of Iraq. What innocent people did Bush kill?
I think the internet boom helped the economy allot in the 90s. The economy started to tank Clintons last few month in office. Then after 9-11 went into the toilet. Allot of people credit Alan Green. for the economy.
Nope is was Kerry.
LOL Debating politics doesn't make me angry at all for some reason.
VanillaGorilla said:
