Obama to support ground zero mosque

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    Obama to support ground zero mosque


    Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com



    Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center - CNN.com


    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjGJPPRD3u0"]YouTube- Kill the Ground Zero Mosque TV Ad[/nomedia]

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    I've been around the block with some people on this when it first made the news and they were suggesting where it be built.
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    When I've played real time strategy games, I like to blow my enemies buildings up and build one of my own near them. It's like putting your flag up on their land. Even a child can see how disrespectful the Muslims are being. I have always been all for freedom of religion, until now. Our schools are teaching sensitivity to these people, but they can't see how insensitive this location is? This shows me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is not a religion of peace. Where is the money coming from to build this mosque? There's a Paypal account set up for people to make anonymous donations. I'd be willing to bet some of the money is coming from terrorists. I have zero respect for Obama. Why during a time of war with Muslim terrorists did we elect a guy without a real birth certificate, with no leadership or business experience, named Barack Hussein Obama. He's a Trojan horse in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    When I've played real time strategy games, I like to blow my enemies buildings up and build one of my own near them. It's like putting your flag up on their land. Even a child can see how disrespectful the Muslims are being. I have always been all for freedom of religion, until now. Our schools are teaching sensitivity to these people, but they can't see how insensitive this location is? This shows me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is not a religion of peace. Where is the money coming from to build this mosque? There's a Paypal account set up for people to make anonymous donations. I'd be willing to bet some of the money is coming from terrorists. I have zero respect for Obama. Why during a time of war with Muslim terrorists did we elect a guy without a real birth certificate, with no leadership or business experience, named Barack Hussein Obama. He's a Trojan horse in my opinion.
    Because the Christians are/were far superior?
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    I'd feel the same way if it were Roman Catholics that bombed New York and then tried to build a church for victory. If the tables were turned, and this happened in a Muslim nation, you think a church would be allowed to be built? Nah. they'd blow it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I'd feel the same way if it were Roman Catholics that bombed New York and then tried to build a church for victory. If the tables were turned, and this happened in a Muslim nation, you think a church would be allowed to be built? Nah. they'd blow it up.
    Some muslim nations are quite tolerant (Jordan, for instance).

    Broad brushes are often inaccurate.
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    I know people from Jordan. I don't think they would allow blatant disrespect for their nation either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I know people from Jordan. I don't think they would allow blatant disrespect for their nation either.
    That's because there is nothing disrespectful about this whole situation.

    disclaimer: so far. I know there were questions about funding sources and Saudi ties to the leadership here. If this turns out to have grounds then I would likely modify my opinion, but as it stands I am not offended at the current proposal.
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    I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you.
    See, that's what was supposed to be great about America. The tyranny of the majority cannot stomp on the rights of the minority. Personally, I still support this principle.

    Sad to see so many don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    See, that's what was supposed to be great about America. The tyranny of the majority cannot stomp on the rights of the minority. Personally, I still support this principle.

    Sad to see so many don't.
    The only reason I do not support this is because of the direct selection relative to Ground Zero. They were offered other land FOR FREE, but denied it becuase they wanted to be rock throwing distance to ground zero. Mosque have been built in the same fashion in other countries. As with such of Gettysburg, the area should be considered Hallowed ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    The only reason I do not support this is because of the direct selection relative to Ground Zero. They were offered other land FOR FREE, but denied it becuase they wanted to be rock throwing distance to ground zero. Mosque have been built in the same fashion in other countries. As with such of Gettysburg, the area should be considered Hallowed ground.
    How large of a radius out from GZ? 2 blocks? 3? 5? 100 miles? Same state?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    How large of a radius out from GZ? 2 blocks? 3? 5? 100 miles? Same state?
    There is precedence for this with the lookout tower that was going to be built at gettysburg... Nice little condescending attitude though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    There is precedence for this with the lookout tower that was going to be built at gettysburg... Nice little condescending attitude though.
    I wasn't being condescending, it was a serious question.

    The Wharrgarrbl is that this is going to be built on TOP of the ruins, which is ridiculous. The question is valid....what is a reasonable distance away?

    Also, consider that the project (which is also supposed to be a youth center, if I am not mistaken) MIGHT just be an attempt to demonstrate ideological distance from the terrorists and other extremists by helping to do some good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I wasn't being condescending, it was a serious question.

    The Wharrgarrbl is that this is going to be built on TOP of the ruins, which is ridiculous. The question is valid....what is a reasonable distance away?

    Also, consider that the project (which is also supposed to be a youth center, if I am not mistaken) MIGHT just be an attempt to demonstrate ideological distance from the terrorists and other extremists by helping to do some good.
    Right around the corner is unacceptable. I mean why don't we just build a german cultural center across the street from Auschwitz? Seems perfectly acceptable.

    New Yorkers are not happy about this, so whose voice gets silenced and whose doesn't?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Right around the corner is unacceptable. I mean why don't we just build a german cultural center across the street from Auschwitz? Seems perfectly acceptable.

    New Yorkers are not happy about this, so whose voice gets silenced and whose doesn't?
    If the German cultural center's purpose was to heal damage done by the holocaust and promote unity amongst ALL Germans (including German Jews) then what's the problem.

    Whose voice get's silenced? I don't know...it would fall under Constitutional Rights and Freedom of Religion.

    Personally, I think it will get firebombed out of existence anyway soon after being built - but that is just a sad consequence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    If the German cultural center's purpose was to heal damage done by the holocaust and promote unity amongst ALL Germans (including German Jews) then what's the problem.

    Whose voice get's silenced? I don't know...it would fall under Constitutional Rights and Freedom of Religion.

    Personally, I think it will get firebombed out of existence anyway soon after being built - but that is just a sad consequence.
    If the purpose was to heal, then the American outcry against the mosque would have been listened to when offered other state sponsored property a little farther away. You do not know the purpose of the mosque and denial of free property elsewhere makes me think otherwise than healing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    If the purpose was to heal, then the American outcry against the mosque would have been listened to when offered other state sponsored property a little farther away. You do not know the purpose of the mosque and denial of free property elsewhere makes me think otherwise than healing.
    Read my disclaimer above. My opinions at this point are conditional upon innocuous purposes.
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    Why build a mosquee intead of a place for all religions? Because obama is a muslim and you voted him president.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY"]YouTube- Obama Admits He Is A Muslim[/nomedia]


    Lot of religions died in the WTC, so why a mosquee at this place?


    OBAMA IS SCARY
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterX View Post
    Why build a mosquee intead of a place for all religions? Because obama is a muslim and you voted him president.

    YouTube- Obama Admits He Is A Muslim


    Lot of religions died in the WTC, so why a mosquee at this place?


    OBAMA IS SCARY
    How about because the people paying for it are muslims? Its an empty abandoned building, not being used in years, if not decades. They are going to tear it down and spend hundreds of millions (on union labor) building a civic center that includes a mosque. the mosque is a small portion of the total building.

    I really hate agreeing with anything Obama says, but in this case, I fail to see the problem too. Freedom of Religion is right there in the constitution...
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    I'm OK with it. It may be in poor taste, but poor taste is not illegal, head to Las Vegas for reference. I do question the original name of the center: THe Cordoba Center. THAT has highly charged symbolism to militant Islamists, I question the use of it, and I find it interesting that they changed the name last month to the more neutral Park 151 (or whatever the address is). I question the past history of the guy heading it up, I question the source of funding, and I question why he's mysteriously disappeared this last month.

    But in theory, it's America, and they're allowed to build mosques. If they build it, throw open the doors, and hold a freakin block party bbq for the neighborhood, it'll be awesome.

    Freedom's Edge
    Where In The World Is Imam Feisal?
    Claudia Rosett, 07.30.10, 6:07 PM ET
    Plans for a $100 million high-rise Islamic Center next to New York's Ground Zero are generating lots of controversy, as well as great distress among families of some of the thousands murdered in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. So one might suppose that the Imam spearheading this project in the name of harmony and dialogue would be more than willing to help allay fears by disclosing down to the last penny where he's getting the money. Instead, Feisal Abdul Rauf--Imam Feisal, to his followers and friends--keeps stonewalling. The questions keep multiplying.

    One of those questions right now is: Where in the world is Imam Feisal?

    Simply locating him this week turned into an intriguing exercise. Feisal Abdul Rauf is chairman of a tax-exempt foundation called the Cordoba Initiative, which is spearheading the nine-figure project to replace a downtown Manhattan building, damaged in the Sept. 11 attacks, with the planned Islamic Center--to be called Cordoba House. Rauf's Cordoba Initiative has an office in upper Manhattan, from which Rauf and his wife, Daisy Kahn, together with a Manhattan real estate developer, made the Cordoba House pitch approved in May by a Manhattan community board.

    But when I phoned the New York offices of the Cordoba Initiative on Thursday morning, seeking answers from Rauf about the money, a staffer told me that Rauf is in an undisclosed location somewhere overseas: "He's traveling; he's out of the country."

    Could they provide a phone number abroad where I might reach him? No, I was told. He had apparently gone right off the grid: "He's unavailable at this point. He's not feeling well."

    When will Rauf be back in the country? Maybe "the end of August, or early September," said his assistant. It seems that Rauf, having chafed old wounds and touched off quite a debate in the U.S., has checked out of the country for the rest of the summer.

    However, on Thursday night I did locate the unavailable and traveling Rauf. The Cordoba Initiative also lists an office in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Near midnight New York time, which is late morning in Malaysia, I phoned the Kuala Lumpur number and asked for Imam Feisal. A moment later, Rauf was on the line. About 30 seconds after that, having heard that I had questions about his funding, he was suddenly unavailable again. "I'm in an important meeting right now," he said, "I can't take this call." And he was gone.

    At both his New York and Kuala Lumpur offices his assistants, at my request, gave me e-mail addresses to which I sent questions. From both places, I have so far received no answers.

    It's good to know that whatever Rauf's health problems, he is hale enough to be holding important meetings in Malaysia. But both Rauf and New York authorities now condoning his Cordoba House, such as Mayor Michael Bloomberg, might want to consider that before this project rolls ahead, it would be far healthier all around to establish complete transparency about where exactly the money is coming from, and how Rauf is raising it.

    Here are some questions that need answers:

    1) Is Rauf's summer trip abroad doubling as a fundraising tour? If it is, and if he is serious about his professed aim of healing American wounds, then surely he shouldn't mind disclosing where exactly he's spending time, whom he's meeting with, and what he's promising as the selling points of his Cordoba House next to where the Twin Towers stood. His proposal to the Manhattan community board was approved in May on grounds that his Islamic Center will include "a 500-seat performing arts center & lecture hall, culinary school, exhibition space, swimming pool, fitness gym, basketball court, restaurant, library, art studios and childcare." Rauf has said in interviews that it will also include a prayer space. One can view that as an Islamic center with a mosque included, or a mosque with a large community center attached. Either way, if Rauf is raising money for this abroad, what's he promising that might persuade foreign donors to lavish millions on such a facility in lower Manhattan? Who's he pitching to? And before he becomes available again in Manhattan, where might his travels over the next month take him?

    2) How much money has Rauf actually raised? This is deeply unclear. Some statements emanating from the Cordoba Initiative imply the fundraising has yet to seriously begin; some circumstances suggest it has already begun. What's the real state of play? How much pressure has Rauf put himself under to produce that $100 million to build the center? And that's just for capital investment. What about operating costs? Rauf told the Manhattan community board that his Cordoba House would create 150 full-time and more than 500 part-time jobs. Where and from whom will that money flow?

    3) If Rauf is now seeking funding abroad, is his provocative choice of a site just down the block from Ground Zero now helping bring money into his coffers? In other words, is any of his fundraising getting a boost from the high-profile debate and distress generated by his plans? One would hope that Rauf picked the site with the best of intentions. But on the chance that the choice amounts in any way to a cynical fundraising stunt, or even a dangerous appeal to potential donors who have lots of money but no love lost for America, full and regular public disclosure of his backers, prospects, plans and financial books would surely help clarify the situation.

    4) Whose show is this, anyway? Rauf's Cordoba Initiative was set up in Colorado in 2004 as a small, tax-exempt foundation. Over the first five years, the Initiative in its U.S. 2008 federal tax return reported receiving donations totaling less than $100,000. Here we are two years later, and the same foundation, hand-in-hand with another hitherto small foundation, the American Society for Muslim Advancement, run by Rauf and his wife out of the same New York office, has hooked up with a real estate developer named Sharif El-Gamal. And, lo! Rauf--currently "unavailable" and huddled in an important meeting in Malaysia--is now the public face of a $100 million project proposing to replace in lower Manhattan some of the "community space" once provided by the vibrant life in and around World Trade Center. Some Americans are left grieving afresh, and many are left guessing, while the mysteries multiply. At least part of the answer lies in such details as where is the money coming from. For that matter, where is Imam Feisal looking for it? And when will he make himself available to tell us all about it?

    Claudia Rosett, a journalist in residence with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, writes a weekly column on foreign affairs for Forbes.

    Follow Forbes Opinions on Twitter

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/30/ima...opular+stories
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    My two cents, I think there is a clear distinction to be drawn, with respect to supporting religious freedoms, provided that it is constitutionally appropriate. Obama supported the "rights" of all religious groups to gather in worship; where they see fit, as long as they are in compliance with law/local ordinances.

    He took the approach of an attorney (constitutional law). He didn't offer a "personal" decision on the matter. Additionally, Bloomberg (who is closest to the situation) supported the same position, as well as Charlie Crist, one being a prominent conservative, the other a prominent independent.
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    America is increasingly(by design) increasing the allotment of muslim beliefs, while restricting Christianity and Christians. You can see it all over.

    You insult Jesus, its cool... You insult a muslim belief and your a bigot, and racist, and intolerant, and this, and that.....

    Let America falter, crumble, and die financially, morally, and physically. We should deal with all situations the same way our founding fathers would have...
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    Rauf has terrorist ties. The mosque's funding is questionable. Using the constitution's freedom of religion to feel ok about it is ridiculous. The founding fathers made those provisions for Americans and people that want to become Americans, Not for people who want to conquer and change America. The people who bombed us were Muslims here legally. We had no idea they wanted to kill us until it was too late. Since then Americans have converted and have been arrested because they became terrorists. We're not at war with one particular country, we're at war with people fighting in the name of their faith. Hey lets let them continue to recruit our citizens for their religios war. They hide out in the open gain our trust and attack. How about being proactive instead of reactive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    How about being proactive instead of reactive.
    That as well is against our constitution. The freedom of religion was put there for all citizens, not just ones the majority happens to like.
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    Another article on the issue from my beloved Economist.
    Build That Mosque

    As I canadian I feel my opinion is moot. They can build a mosque, I just don't see why it has to be right near the WTC.
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    I love the freedom of religion argument. As no one here is saying to stop the practice of a religion. But building a mosque on the same hallowed ground that many families lost their loved ones to Islamic radicals is a huge provocation. Again, the people were offered free grounds elsewhere, but denied. There is some sort of motive in that denial.

    Every time a loved one that lost at that place visits, now they get a reminder of Islamic radicals. Ground should be hallowed.
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    In case some have forgotten.


    This isnt about freedom of religion, it is about RESPECT for the fallen.

    Remember, those are real people jumping from the towers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    In case some have forgotten.


    This isnt about freedom of religion, it is about RESPECT for the fallen.

    Remember, those are real people jumping from the towers.
    I am against their beliefs anyways. But especially against this attempt to insult our people, and our lost.

    Should it get forced through, I hope justice gets done.

    Dont patronize me about innocent people either. There is no innocence, just varying degrees of guilt.

    Those people in that building didnt have a fighting chance. People justify it as "we cant allow ourselves to become monsters like them" just to feel like the good guys....well no, but why not let 20 guys become monsters like them, not the entire nation And since our people arent stupid enough to do suicide bombing, they last longer lol.
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    Watch how fast that mosque gets bombed! It's a good way for them to continue their religious war here on our soil. They know most Americans won't stand for it. As soon as a mosque is bombed in the US all hell is going to break loose AND they KNOW it. Its part of their plan in my opinion. Here, we can disagree and have a discussion. This country is on the verge of civil war. We're divided on so many issues and I think this is the straw that breaks the camels back. I would hate to see my neighbors killing each other but, hey, lets do it in the name of religion.---How about don't ask don't tell. Some people feel so strongly about their sexuality but because it causes so many problems, there's a rule in place. Let people worship god but keep it to themselves. Don't need to know what people do in their bedroom, Don't care how you worship god. Just leave me out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Watch how fast that mosque gets bombed! It's a good way for them to continue their religious war here on our soil. They know most Americans won't stand for it. As soon as a mosque is bombed in the US all hell is going to break loose AND they KNOW it. Its part of their plan in my opinion. Here, we can disagree and have a discussion. This country is on the verge of civil war. We're divided on so many issues and I think this is the straw that breaks the camels back. I would hate to see my neighbors killing each other but, hey, lets do it in the name of religion.---How about don't ask don't tell. Some people feel so strongly about their sexuality but because it causes so many problems, there's a rule in place. Let people worship god but keep it to themselves. Don't need to know what people do in their bedroom, Don't care how you worship god. Just leave me out of it.
    A war, as tragic and sad as it is, seems necessary. War is a catalyst for mankind, it is also a way to thin our numbers, and cut out some of the problematic genetics through survival. A nice good long war would cut out our obesity issue, toss the control of the federal government, thin out the population, and afterwards restart our economy. I say that last bit because I can promise you all the rich old farts wont make it through the war lol.

    Worst side effects? Most likely people of muslim appearance would be shot on sight in a full scale civil war, let them start it, I think they are underestimating how much anger people are holding back against them and they will be crushed utterly and removed from these lands. Also rednecks would hunt illegal immigrants, there would likely be severe racism in a white vs black sense and small conflicts of that alone, and many children would suffer from the war.

    But all in all, I think its needed. America is one huge ball of anger held back by political correctness restrictions. Time to let it flow it seems. Post 2nd revolution, 2nd civil war whatever it becomes remembered as, our country will be better for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I love the freedom of religion argument. As no one here is saying to stop the practice of a religion. But building a mosque on the same hallowed ground that many families lost their loved ones to Islamic radicals is a huge provocation.
    Gee sounds like there shouldn't be a single building on american soil, because we trompled all over the american indians hallowed ground and forced them into concentration camps that we decided to cal "reservations" because it sounds nicer.

    New York City, the area with jurisdiction, had the capability to block the center in multiple ways - zoning the building as a historic site, refusing permits, etc. It did not. So to call it hallowed ground seems pretty funny if the people who actually live there don't consider it that way.
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    Obama needs to keep his Muslim opinion and endorsement to himself.

    Let's build a Christian Church at Ground Zero of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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    how about turning ground zero to some fuqing buildings, over 10 years and im tired of this shyt, this country looks so helpless.

    this is going to be the new shanghai skyline soon,

    that 1 tower with a hole in is just recently opened, i went to the 90th floor (out of about 110) and looked down on the older tower (looks like an asian empire state building) i visited several years ago.

    that spiral building will be up before you know it, and they are building these twin tower style buildings by there too soon. i think its going to be 130 floors or something like that. look it up.

    so where the hell is all the outrage on no buildings going up, the media is detracting out attention to little things and doing it very successfully.

    Last edited by ax1; 08-15-2010 at 04:22 PM.
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    Has everyone here heard of "Separation of Church and State? Does everyone know that the State Department will be "footing the bill" for Feisal Abdul Rauf, to go on a religious tour of the Middle East. To foster "greater understanding" about Muslim communities in the United States. THIS is unconstitutional. Why are our taxes being paid for this. The man behind the mosque is an employee of Obama's administration. Obama is promoting Islam on our dollar. Of course Obama is backing him.
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    A peaceful end to this would be nice, but I think this just may spark the fires of the old "holy war" idea on both sides. Muslims are definitely making a push to become dominate.

    FYI, they will NEVER tell me what to do. I have a mind, one capable of learning and adapting... And of being an American and kicking @$$ if the need arises
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Has everyone here heard of "Separation of Church and State? Does everyone know that the State Department will be "footing the bill" for Feisal Abdul Rauf, to go on a religious tour of the Middle East. To foster "greater understanding" about Muslim communities in the United States. THIS is unconstitutional. Why are our taxes being paid for this. The man behind the mosque is an employee of Obama's administration. Obama is promoting Islam on our dollar. Of course Obama is backing him.
    No, you misunderstand separation of church and state. Since Islam is not just a religion, but also the political view of other countries, we have to deal with those countries that use Shariah law and can't ignore the impact of their religion. And separation of church and state applies to inside the USA, our government espousing or sponsoring or granting one religion preference over others. Not as far as how we deal in foreign relations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    our government espousing or sponsoring or granting one religion preference over others.
    And unfortunately this is happening right before our eyes as a Greek orthodox church is being roadblocked because of zoning issues having problems with its plans being taller than the memorial.. BUT the mosque is quite a bit taller and the road is clear. The Greek orthodox church was there prior to the WTC towers and fell when tower 2 fell.
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    Found a great little article here:

    "Mosque Moves Forward, Yet Church in Limbo," by Mark Impomeni in Human Events, August 9:

    The battle raging over the Ground Zero mosque is bringing new attention to another, less publicized controversy involving a house of worship in Lower Manhattan.

    St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which once sat right across the street from the World Trade Center, was crushed under the weight of the collapse of Tower Two on September 11, 2001. St. Nicholas was the only church to be lost in the attacks, and nine years later, while City of New York officials are busy removing every impediment to the building of the Cordoba mosque two blocks from the site, St. Nicholas' future remains unclear.

    The last bit of hopeful news for St. Nicholas came two years ago, in July 2008, when church officials and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey announced a deal which would have allowed the church to be rebuilt about two blocks from its original location.

    The Port Authority agreed to give the church a parcel of land at Liberty and Greenwich Streets, and contribute $20 million toward construction of a new sanctuary. The Port Authority also agreed to build an explosion-proof platform and foundation for the new church building, which would sit on top of a screening area for cars and trucks entering the underground garages at the new World Trade Center.

    Trouble emerged after St. Nicholas announced its plans to build a traditional Greek Orthodox church building, 24,000 square feet in size, topped with a grand dome. Port Authority officials told the church to cut back the size of the building and the height of the proposed dome, limiting it to rising no higher than the World Trade Center memorial. The deal fell apart for goodin March 2009, when the Port Authority abruptly ended the talks after refusing to allow church officials to review plans for the garage and screening area underneath. Sixteen months later, the two sides have still not met to resume negotiations.

    St. Nicholas Church's difficulty in getting approvals to rebuild stands in stark contrast to the treatment that the developers of the proposed Cordoba mosque have received. New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, state Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo, and a raft of city officials have all come out publicly in favor of building the mosque, and the city's Landmarks and Preservation Commission recently voted unanimously to deny protection to the building currently occupying the site where the mosque is to be built.

    The mosque is proposed to rise 13 stories, far above the height of the World Trade Center memorial, with no height restrictions imposed....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    And unfortunately this is happening right before our eyes as a Greek orthodox church is being roadblocked because of zoning issues having problems with its plans being taller than the memorial.. BUT the mosque is quite a bit taller and the road is clear. The Greek orthodox church was there prior to the WTC towers and fell when tower 2 fell.
    see now that I can agree with and be against them doing
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