Obama to support ground zero mosque
- 09-09-2010, 11:25 AM
I agree that we have gone completely off topic. Also we are both (If I do say so myself ) quite intelligent people that are very strong in our convictions. Thats a formula for a religious debate of no end, and quite frankly, no progress for either side of the argument. So while I will continue to respectfully disagree with your and other(s)'s views on religion, we can let that go.
- 09-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Hillary's job is to travel around the world preaching religious tolerance and inclusion, it's in the best interest of our national security for her to do so.
09-09-2010, 11:41 AM
09-09-2010, 11:43 AM
And it will incite violence, it already has. There was a burning down of a mosque under construction in Tennessee, and the only reason there hasn't been any violence at Park 51 is that they haven't started construction yet.
Again, why is there a need to be sensitive to them when they are unwilling to be sensitive to us? Stepping aside from even the radical islamist who were behind the actual 9/11 attacks, a large amount of the muslim world still hates America. See what they think of us building a christian church almost anywhere in the middle east. I know Iranians who were forced to flee their country due to the fact that they were christians.
09-09-2010, 11:45 AM
09-09-2010, 12:08 PM
Please let the following picture sink in for a minute:
09-09-2010, 12:11 PM
That "reverend" has every right in the world to express himself, but in doing so, he is selfishly doing it at the peril of others and preaching exclusion. I was under the impression that Christians were taught to humbles themselves under the eyes of their god, no matter the circumstances? This will become a recruitment tape, shown all around the Arab world, even in places where western influence has infiltrated their culture.
09-09-2010, 12:22 PM
And why is buring the Quaran a religious intolerance issue? Its a protest against the specific branch of islamics that takes the Quaran and has warped it into extremety - Wahabism. It should be a wakeup call for moderate Islamics to do something about excluding people who are radicals from being involved, which so far still has not been happening.
09-09-2010, 12:42 PM
The Bible and the Qur'an are a written set of values, neither of which speak to "specific" segments of any religion. How people interpret those values, are not relevant to the books themselves; interpretation is a personal act. For example if a Christian murders an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity, does the bible now take on a different significance throughout the religious world? Obviously not.
Burning copies of the Qur'an is an overall rejection and indictment on the religion as a whole, it's not going to be interpreted as being geared towards "specific" radical groups within the religion. Again, neither example share similarities beyond just being mere expressions.
09-09-2010, 01:06 PM
As an aside, you do realize how m any churches and temples there are in the Middle East, right?
Also, to state that the same god that calls for death to the infidels tells me that you have never read the Qu'ran. In which case this discussion goes no further IMO as it becomes a bunch of monkees flinging poo at each other.
09-09-2010, 01:38 PM
I do have an idea of how many there are there, and its far less proportionately than the number of mosques in the US. Also, in the US the number of mosques being built is rising, whereas that is not the case in the middle east.
I'm not stating that the quaran itself in all cases calls for that, but that is how certain sects have interpreted it. Again, I don't understand how anyone with a rational mind can support the Park 51 project as freedom of religious expression, and not also support the freedom of expression of the priest burning the quaran. Personally I basically support both, although Park 51 is a disaster waiting to happen. The imam has terrorist ties (Hamas), and the US government is using taxpayer dollars to fund his fundraising trip, which is ridiculous.
09-09-2010, 01:41 PM
The great commision of Christ is to make disciples and baptize. It is NOT to provoke...regardless.
Many Christians have lost their focus of the Christ in their Christianity. The Spirit is lost on the letter by both the advocates and the nay-sayers.
I'm certainly not in this guys camp, although he has a right to do and say what he wants.
Life is a terminal condition.
09-09-2010, 01:41 PM
And burning bibles to protest the murder of an abortion doctor is entirely legitimate as well.
09-09-2010, 01:42 PM
So again, the double standard applied by our liberal government...The U.S. military has confirmed that Bibles of United States soldiers serving in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed by order of the U.S. State Department because Muslims were offended that the soldiers were filmed reading the Bibles on Arabic Al Jazeera television. CNN reported that that the Bibles were "burned" in order to satisfy the demands of Muslim authorities who were deeply offended that copies of the official sacred book of Christianity, printed in the local language of the Afghans and read by U.S. soldiers fluent in Pashto, were allowed into the country. The burning of the Bibles in Afghansitan was approved by the U.S. government, lauded by the Afghan Muslims and seemed to satiate the anger of those Muslims deeply offended at Bible reading on Arab network television.
Now General David H. Petraeus, U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, has denounced plans by a Florida church to burn copies of the Koran this weekend. The White House has also condemned the Florida church's plan, with press secretary Robert Gibbs reiterating Petraeus's contention that the act would be "offensive" to Muslims. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley called the proposed demonstration "un-American" and said it was "inconsistent with the values of religious tolerance and religious freedom." Muslim, Christian, and other religious leaders are putting pressure on Pastor Terry Jones of Dove World Outreach Center in Gainsville, Florida not to follow through with his declaration that he will burn the Korans this Saturday, September 11.
I happen to agree that the church's plan to burn the Korans is unwise, and it is obvious that there is outrage in the Muslim world and in our government over the pastor's plan, but my question is a simple and sincere one: Why was there not a similar outrage among Muslims, the American military and the American government over the burning of Bibles in Afghanistan?
09-09-2010, 01:42 PM
Just to set the record correctly, I do not think that the government or anyone else should STOP the burning of the Quran, I just dont think it should happen.
09-09-2010, 01:50 PM
I am in agreement with you. Based on sheer rights alone, both groups can go forward with their plans. However, I believe that the Qu'ran buring will garner a much harsher response. Personally, I think all sides in these issues are nuts and have lost their way (if they ever had it to begin with)
09-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Other than some obscure "blogs" or conservative sources written by plumbers, what else can you dig up to substantiate the claim that this man has terrorist ties?
09-09-2010, 02:06 PM
09-09-2010, 02:11 PM
And its easy to dismiss conservative sources as the liberal sources are all in the same pockets of the democrats, so they lie their own direction.
Here how does the new york post stating that he was one of the largest fundraisers of the boats to break the israeli blockade (which is entirely legal by all standards) and get materials to hamas, as well as purposefully set up for a fight/confrontation when the israelis tried to stop them?
09-09-2010, 02:12 PM
09-09-2010, 02:15 PM
Oh right because Rupert Murdoch doesn't have an agenda. Let me explain it to you this way...you could probably write for the post.
09-09-2010, 02:16 PM
Like much of your argument? You paint an entire religion with a broad brush, without a hint of factual information, historical or otherwise, in order to substantiate anything you've said.
09-09-2010, 02:46 PM
09-09-2010, 02:50 PM
09-09-2010, 02:56 PM
Yasir Arafat labeled as a terrorist under the Bush administration, was also a prior recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, so again all left to interpretation, or agendas.
09-09-2010, 03:14 PM
09-09-2010, 03:17 PM
09-09-2010, 03:35 PM
09-09-2010, 03:44 PM
09-09-2010, 03:47 PM
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