Obama to support ground zero mosque
- 09-07-2010, 03:47 PM
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...Quran.Burning/ <----Let's attempt to rationalize this one?
Or as I like to call it, the conservative strategy of..."Let's piss them off and see if that works"...brilliant.
- 09-07-2010, 04:23 PM
09-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Burning a Quran is blatant hate though, just as burning a bible would be. Both of these statements coming from a very proud athiest. I am anti-religion, but I have no reason to actively spread hate about a religion or target it. My family is religious, I do not in any form condemn them. When religions start treating each other the same way, life would be easier.
The prophet was featured in south park many seasons ago, previous to the debate that happened last season.
09-07-2010, 04:38 PM
Burning the US flag was determined to be protected by freedom of speech, no reason burning a Quaran is any different. Just like no laws against them building a civic center more than 2 blocks away from ground zero.
09-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Burn an american flag in front of a patriot, you will probably get your ass kicked.
Burn a gay pride flag in front of a homosexual, get your ass kicked.
Burn a bible in front of a christian, expect retaliation.
Why is this seen as something that wouldnt, by nature, lead to retaliation?
09-07-2010, 04:49 PM
How about people actually act on the morality they claim to have? I don't recall anywhere in the bible where it says it's cool to kick anyone's ass over ink on paper anything...nor words, nor much of anything else.
They are doing what they think is right/within their rights. Should the threat of violence by ignorants make them cower?
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
09-07-2010, 04:49 PM
Why can't burning the Quaran be viewed as retaliation for them burning US flags in the street and carrying presidential effigies around?
Just because someone is doing something out of retaliation doesn't make them morally superior to the person who did what offends them.
09-07-2010, 05:06 PM
God I always make myself promise to stay out of political threads, and again here I end up...
Anyone who thinks actively burning the Quran, or any book from any culture or religion is the "right" thing to do is inadequately equipped mentally. I'd love to hear how it is the right thing to do. P.S. Extremist thought 9/11 was the right thing to do. Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. Belief you are doing the right thing doesnt equate to it being the correct thing to do.
It can be viewed as retaliation. Doesnt make it right. Retaliation leads to more retaliation which leads to more retaliation. The problem is this: When you are attacking the Quran, you are attacking the religion. One that 95+% of its followers have no association a terrorist group. I know many here are not city people, which can lead to more shielded views of other races/religions (I dont mean this offensively - my views on both are different living in a mixed neighborhood than when I was in suburbia). But I am sure you have all met a follower of Islam at some point. Did they try to kill you? Would they if they had the chance? In 99% of cases the answers are no.
This would be no different than if I started burning down churches because I saw on TV a pedo got arrested. I mean Catholics are pedophiles right? Even their leaders, all pedos correct? No, that is not true. Not at all. Now you see how associating the thoughts of a few to the masses does not work.
09-07-2010, 05:18 PM
As with racism, people who are looking to be offended will find a way to be offended regardless of what you do unless you totally kowtow to them.
09-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Personally I'm not the least bit religious, so I believe all religions are fair play. Comedy is comedy and that's fine, however, if you get into areas that hint at extremism, you're asking for trouble. There is nothing right about what this so called "christian" deems appropriate in the form of burning copies of the Qur'an, irrespective of what they do on their side (flag burning), we should always look to uphold ourselves to a higher standard of decency.
This idiot has every right in the world to burn the Qur'an, however, it doesn't preclude him from being a nimrod. I'm going to venture a guess and say that this "preacher" in all likelihood received a very limited education.
09-07-2010, 05:21 PM
09-07-2010, 05:49 PM
Should I start burning bibles in the street because the Catholic Church still thinks women using contraception are whores? Or because they preach only abstinence? Lets ask Bristol how that is working out...
I also am not looking to be offended. As I mentioned, if I had my way, Religion would disappear, overnight, and I would be a happy man. I have no need to protect Islam or any other religion. I personally say to hell with them all.
..and SouthPaw, I am with you on all fronts.
09-07-2010, 05:54 PM
HTS I am with you on getting rid of religion. However, we as a species are foolish enough to find another reason to hate and kill each other.
At the end of the day, this is not a Mosque nor is it on ground zero. End of thread IMO
09-07-2010, 06:16 PM
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.-- Pastor Martin Niemoller
I didn't originally make the comparison of this speech and the targeting of a group, but it's something of a fair warning.
I want to make clear once again that I did not originally make the comparison of this quote/speech to the community center situation. If you want a link to the video I will send you the link via PM.
09-07-2010, 06:17 PM
09-07-2010, 08:37 PM
09-07-2010, 09:32 PM
I find interesting the way some talk about other religions with what seems to be piety and hypocrisy.By that I mean this, religion is a personal or institutionalized system grounded in belief.That would mean atheism itself is a religion and yet some of those who practice it would like to see other religions gone.Sounds a lot like the extremes in those other religions they seem to look down on.
Also they love to talk about the atrocities of those other religions but ignore those of thier own.Stalin,Mao,Pol Pot,Kim Jong-il,Tito,Castro to name a few. Atheist all and responsible for more deaths than all other religions this past century.
Hey, I say there is room for all.
09-07-2010, 10:02 PM
Anyhow, I get the gist of what you're saying but there really isn't anyone getting killed in the name of atheism. To go back past your time frame of the last century, Spanish conquistadors killed millions upon millions upon millions in the name of God... and resources. Point being, the natives were read some religious stuff in Spanish (i'll look it up, I have the book) and given the option to convert, then they were killed for not converting.
No Atheist group, in the name of Atheism, has ever mass murdered anywhere near to millions. Ole Columbus (or Colon) and his boys brought an entire race to extinction (The Natives of what is now Haiti.) Extinction.
09-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Do you really believe religion to be the cause of the atrocities you mentioned? More like religion was used to justify what was actually done to gain land, money,and power.Just as when communist atheists killed those who believed in God because they were a danger to the state, when what they really meant was they were a danger to the control they held on the people.
09-08-2010, 12:33 AM
09-08-2010, 12:53 AM
When you speak about atheism and religion you're talking about the decision to partake or to not partake. Atheism isn't A) B) C) or D). It's E) none of the above.
You're right about it being about resources and power, but natives were no **** given the option to convert or die. They were really trying to convert them and the other option was death. The same cannot be said about atheism.
09-08-2010, 12:27 PM
09-08-2010, 12:47 PM
But on second thought, I do see the point of America - land of the free etc. etc. It's just hard to be real to myself and not have these feelings of dislike towards others of a different ethnic group. I just like to stay within my own kind. Sorry if it offends you.
09-08-2010, 01:00 PM
Do you know anyone who has escaped the old USSR or China.Yes people have been killed because they would not give up their beliefs or "convert" to atheism.Because they want people looking to and depending on no one but them and thus they maintain their control.Just as in the examples you mentioned by forcing natives to accept their religion it would have been easier for the "christians" to maintain control.
09-08-2010, 01:15 PM
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