Obama to support ground zero mosque - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 4

Obama to support ground zero mosque

Page 4 of 6 First ... 23456 Last
  1. New Member
    Condition1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    492
    Rep Power
    329

    Reputation

    When you speak about atheism and religion you're talking about the decision to partake or to not partake. Atheism isn't A) B) C) or D). It's E) none of the above.

    You're right about it being about resources and power, but natives were no **** given the option to convert or die. They were really trying to convert them and the other option was death. The same cannot be said about atheism.

  2. Senior Member
    Harry Manback's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,203
    Rep Power
    736

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 1slowcivic View Post

    So, lets see exactly whats wrong with what you said...
    1)The constitution was written hundreds of years ago and did not envision the type of chaos that goes on these days.
    "The founders understood that in framing the constitution they were trying to limit the power of government by taking human nature from the equation. The constitution has been attacked as archaic and obsolete for a myriad of reasons. These attacks illustrate a basic misunderstanding of the constitutions purpose"
    The constitution may not have envisioned everything that could possibly happen, but it did leave room for something we like to call "Ammendments" Thank GOD for the constitution, without it human nature is to hate whatever is different and become ignorant and classify everyone in a certain group as having the same characteristics. Maybe we should put them all in concentration camps? I'm sure you would be happy with that.
    2)Change is going to have to apply to our rights as well.
    Really,now? Personally, I like my rights. You're welcome to give up yours if you like. Or, did you mean that all muslims should lose their rights? I'M ALL FOR TERRORIST HAVING NO RIGHTS AND THEY SHOULD BE DEALT WITH ACCORDING TO THE LAW. To single out a single religion is at the very least ignorant. Every religion has had terrorist at some point.
    3) All this PC garbage has to stop
    I actually agree with you on something. You should be allowed to say just about whatever you want. However, that has nothing to do with letting people of a certain religion practice their reigion without having to feel peseccuted. I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons the pilgrims came over was to escape that very thing.
    4) It's hard enough I'm a white man in America these days
    Seriously guy? Whens the last time you're application got pushed to the back because they saw the name Javier Gonzalez or whatever name and decided to give him the interview first.I'm sure you have some really white sounding name and 9 times out of 10 youre gonna get the interview first. Hard being a white man in America.....thats funny. I could go so far into this.
    5) Human rights or God rights
    As a human you have the right to worship ny God you choose.

    I could keep going but I had a long day training so that I can go overseas and protect the constitution that allows you those rights that you feel need to be changed.You know the ones that allow you to have an oppinion and actually say what you think in an open forum.

    Gee, thanks for pointing out that everything I said was wrong because my morals and opinions differ from yours. My beliefs have taken a complete 180...right.

    All I have to say is numbers don't lie.

    Have fun dodging bullets.
  3. Senior Member
    Harry Manback's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,203
    Rep Power
    736

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mich29 View Post
    if they are doing it out of spite at all ??? no one knows.you gotta believe we have spies within their group watching them.we ran back ground checks on them and everything else.they came up clean and have been given the green light to build.if we in the usa stopped them from building this place we open the flood gates to other acts of hate.the usa is one of the few places where anyone can actually make it and hopefully it stays this way.
    Regardless if these guys in particular are doing it out of spite, somewhere in the islam nation, those who hate us Americans are laughing.

    But on second thought, I do see the point of America - land of the free etc. etc. It's just hard to be real to myself and not have these feelings of dislike towards others of a different ethnic group. I just like to stay within my own kind. Sorry if it offends you.
    •   
       

  4. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Condition1 View Post
    When you speak about atheism and religion you're talking about the decision to partake or to not partake. Atheism isn't A) B) C) or D). It's E) none of the above.

    You're right about it being about resources and power, but natives were no **** given the option to convert or die. They were really trying to convert them and the other option was death. The same cannot be said about atheism.
    Atheism is a belief,You can no more scientifically disprove God or the supernatural than I can prove it.

    Do you know anyone who has escaped the old USSR or China.Yes people have been killed because they would not give up their beliefs or "convert" to atheism.Because they want people looking to and depending on no one but them and thus they maintain their control.Just as in the examples you mentioned by forcing natives to accept their religion it would have been easier for the "christians" to maintain control.
  5. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235091

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Atheism is a belief,You can no more scientifically disprove God or the supernatural than I can prove it.

    Do you know anyone who has escaped the old USSR or China.Yes people have been killed because they would not give up their beliefs or "convert" to atheism.Because they want people looking to and depending on no one but them and thus they maintain their control.Just as in the examples you mentioned by forcing natives to accept their religion it would have been easier for the "christians" to maintain control.
    The only people who associate atheism as a belief or faith are those who belong to a religion. Atheism is the lack of a belief. I can't prove that there is not a wild rave going on inside of a black hole, doesnt mean I belong to the faith of "No Wild Rave in the universe's black holes-ology." This argument has been presented before in previous religion debates, and its frankly a cop out. Let it go.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  6. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    In the words of Chris Rock..."there is a one-legged bus boy working in here right now, who wouldn't trade places with me. And I'm rich! That's how good it is to be white!"
  7. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    Regardless if these guys in particular are doing it out of spite, somewhere in the islam nation, those who hate us Americans are laughing.

    But on second thought, I do see the point of America - land of the free etc. etc. It's just hard to be real to myself and not have these feelings of dislike towards others of a different ethnic group. I just like to stay within my own kind. Sorry if it offends you.
    Is this Mel Gibson?
  8. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    The only people who associate atheism as a belief or faith are those who belong to a religion. Atheism is the lack of a belief. I can't prove that there is not a wild rave going on inside of a black hole, doesnt mean I belong to the faith of "No Wild Rave in the universe's black holes-ology." This argument has been presented before in previous religion debates, and its frankly a cop out. Let it go.
    Ok,I just don't believe there is not a God.I don't really see why it irks atheists if their belief in nothing is still a belief,but that is not the important part of what I was saying any way.What I was saying is any so called belief or non- belief can be used by those who want to gain and maintain power.There is nothing in herent in atheism that make those who follow it any better than anyone else.
  9. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Ok,I just don't believe there is not a God.I don't really see why it irks atheists if their belief in nothing is still a belief,but that is not the important part of what I was saying any way.What I was saying is any so called belief or non- belief can be used by those who wantto gain and maintain power.There is nothing in herent in atheism that make those who follow it any better than anyone else.
    Name 1 war that was started by trying to press atheism on anyone.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  10. NutraPlanet Fanatic
    dsade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    21,349
    Rep Power
    770814

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Ok,I just don't believe there is not a God.I don't really see why it irks atheists if their belief in nothing is still a belief,but that is not the important part of what I was saying any way.What I was saying is any so called belief or non- belief can be used by those who want to gain and maintain power.There is nothing in herent in atheism that make those who follow it any better than anyone else.
    So you don't think you are inherently more "rational" than someone who thinks an invisible leprechaun in space puppets us all like marionettes with invisible, untouchable strings?

    Do you not think his beliefs a tad ridiculous, and perhaps something mentally deranged that he would believe that?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    BPS - Where Body meets Performance
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
  11. Senior Member
    Harry Manback's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,203
    Rep Power
    736

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Is this Mel Gibson?
    I suppose that would have been funny if I was pushing Cristianity.
  12. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235091

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Ok,I just don't believe there is not a God.I don't really see why it irks atheists if their belief in nothing is still a belief,but that is not the important part of what I was saying any way.What I was saying is any so called belief or non- belief can be used by those who want to gain and maintain power.There is nothing in herent in atheism that make those who follow it any better than anyone else.
    I do not stop anyone from believing in anything. I think I even mentioned in this thread I have family members who are religious, I don't tell them to stop.

    I wish I could take credit for this, but I can't:


    With that said, I dont think I am better than you in anyway. I do think my beliefs are, as they are based on logic and not something that people created, with no evidence, and told you that you should believe it or face eternal punishment.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  13. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    So you don't think you are inherently more "rational" than someone who thinks an invisible leprechaun in space puppets us all like marionettes with invisible, untouchable strings?

    Do you not think his beliefs a tad ridiculous, and perhaps something mentally deranged that he would believe that?
    I don't care what anyone believes until they start saying they wish people who believe as i do would go away or not exist.
  14. Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,385
    Rep Power
    956431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I do not stop anyone from believing in anything. I think I even mentioned in this thread I have family members who are religious, I don't tell them to stop.

    I wish I could take credit for this, but I can't:


    With that said, I dont think I am better than you in anyway. I do think my beliefs are, as they are based on logic and not something that people created, with no evidence, and told you that you should believe it or face eternal punishment.
    that made my day. thank you HTS
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  15. Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,385
    Rep Power
    956431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    I don't care what anyone believes until they start saying they wish people who believe as i do would go away or not exist.
    granted that is not right either. However, theists have caused far more damage on humanity than non-theists. We can look through history and see how theism (typically monotheism) has caused greivous harm to mankind. It is difficult to point that out for athiesm as there are no "I must protect the holy land of Atheism" battles in the past
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  16. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    With that said, I dont think I am better than you in anyway. I do think my beliefs are, as they are based on logic and not something that people created, with no evidence, and told you that you should believe it or face eternal punishment.[/QUOTE]

    I am not the one who said I wished those who did not believe the same as me did not exist.I have not had anyone try to shove their belief down my throat.However I do happen to have an acquaintance who loves to try to push his non-belief down others throats or at least "thinks" it makes him better and smarter.I had a teacher in highschool who did the same thing.So i will change religion to atheist in your quote and give it to the guy the next time I see him.

    Look my first statement was not hard to understand and was by no means anything I thought someone would take offense at.Since you brought it up lets just agree to think what we each believe is better than what the other does and leave it at that.This is not really what the thread was about anyway.
  17. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    granted that is not right either. However, theists have caused far more damage on humanity than non-theists. We can look through history and see how theism (typically monotheism) has caused greivous harm to mankind. It is difficult to point that out for athiesm as there are no "I must protect the holy land of Atheism" battles in the past
    I do not know if you read all my posts but I already pointed out some of the great damage done on humanity by atheist.I then said that in the end niether belief nor non-belief was the problem but rather the tool used to gain and keep power.
  18. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    I do not know if you read all my posts but I already pointed out some of the great damage done on humanity by atheist.I then said that in the end niether belief nor non-belief was the problem but rather the tool used to gain and keep power.
    Damage done by atheists was done by them personally, not in the name of or with the justification of some amorphous omniscient being.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  19. 416
    New Member
    416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    103

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Damage done by atheists was done by them personally, not in the name of or with the justification of some amorphous omniscient being.
    As they are atheists it would have to be done pesonally.In the end all acts are done personally.Atheists in the old USSR and still today in China kill people of many beliefs in the name of the state which is based in atheism.

    People need to get over trying to prove people who are different or think different are the "real" cause of the problem.Until people can get past what each other believe or do not believe and judge each other on their actions and what they do with there lives as it affects others there will always be bigotry,killing and suffering.If you do not agree with me that is fine.Just stating it as I see it.
  20. Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,385
    Rep Power
    956431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Damage done by atheists was done by them personally, not in the name of or with the justification of some amorphous omniscient being.
    Exactly my point. Atheists typically do not kill due to the lack of their belief. To compare the damage between the 2 segments is foolish.
  21. New Member
    Condition1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    30
    Posts
    492
    Rep Power
    329

    Reputation

    Put it this way, there are many different types of gangs. You can choose to partake in a gang of your choosing (or theirs?) but you can also choose to not partake in a gang. Now, choosing to not partake in gangs is not a gang in its own. There is no "non-gang gang."

    You have your various religions. Choosing to partake in a religion would make you religious. There is no "non-religious-religion."
  22. Banned
    luelinks's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  209 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,723
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I do not stop anyone from believing in anything. I think I even mentioned in this thread I have family members who are religious, I don't tell them to stop.

    I wish I could take credit for this, but I can't:


    With that said, I dont think I am better than you in anyway. I do think my beliefs are, as they are based on logic and not something that people created, with no evidence, and told you that you should believe it or face eternal punishment.
    I love you soooo much! Your are the greatest person ever. That's going on facebook...its comments and pictures like that, that make me wish you were my boss, teacher, and workout partner(NO HOMO )

    Edit: is also my background

    Also why is there an add for single Muslims on this page?! And why do they always pick the ugliest Muslims to show to the world?!
  23. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,708
    Rep Power
    950991

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    With that said, I dont think I am better than you in anyway. I do think my beliefs are, as they are based on logic and not something that people created, with no evidence, and told you that you should believe it or face eternal punishment.
    You know, this is where you are consistently, so wrong, or must have been misinformed or mislead by either your presumptions or other ignorants.

    Nothing in my faith has ever been motivated by fear of eternal punishment. I know hundreds of Christians who are like minded.

    Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.

    My faith is based entirely on a reciprocal relationship within my hope, substance and evidence. Nothing more.

    If it were fear it would not be faith.

    You are confusing beliefs and religion with faith.
  24. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235091

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    You know, this is where you are consistently, so wrong, or must have been misinformed or mislead by either your presumptions or other ignorants.

    Nothing in my faith has ever been motivated by fear of eternal punishment. I know hundreds of Christians who are like minded.

    Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.

    My faith is based entirely on a reciprocal relationship within my hope, substance and evidence. Nothing more.

    If it were fear it would not be faith.

    You are confusing beliefs and religion with faith.
    Excellent point, to a degree I was blending the general term "faith" with individual beliefs and religions.

    However, I do not think the two are completely mutually exclusive. Looking back to the old testament, surely you can agree that God was something to be feared, and living against his command put your self at some level of risk? Seems to be a very effective method of controlling the public.

    I do have a problem with the comment "evidence of things unseen." Religion has no real evidence. We can discuss all day the divine inspiration that was given to the human writers of biblical text, but in the end you are largely taking their word for it. A human with the intelligence level of our generations placed into the biblical times, easily could have taken control of the public through the creation of a religion. It actually doesnt even take a true intellect to gain power to religion, must we discuss Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard?
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  25. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,708
    Rep Power
    950991

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Excellent point, to a degree I was blending the general term "faith" with individual beliefs and religions.

    However, I do not think the two are completely mutually exclusive. Looking back to the old testament, surely you can agree that God was something to be feared, and living against his command put your self at some level of risk? Seems to be a very effective method of controlling the public.
    Here again is where you are using the 'antiquated' characters of God. Yet, I do agree that living against his command was of high risk:

    "The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain."

    There are a multitude of offenses of disobedience that were extremely offensive to the creator. Despite His patience over generations man continued to disobey.

    As a Creator or a father, parent or authority figure you would display impotence if you never brought accountability for disobedience.

    But, we Christians live under a New Covenant in Christ:

    "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord."

    "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.""

    I do have a problem with the comment "evidence of things unseen." Religion has no real evidence. We can discuss all day the divine inspiration that was given to the human writers of biblical text, but in the end you are largely taking their word for it. A human with the intelligence level of our generations placed into the biblical times, easily could have taken control of the public through the creation of a religion. It actually doesnt even take a true intellect to gain power to religion, must we discuss Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard?
    But yet again you refer to religion.

    As a Christian, I am not practicing a religion. I live in a relationship that is based in faith. This faith requires obedience. Obedience causes me to honor the New Covenant. Honoring the New Covenant I produce fruit of the Spirit in my life and the life of others that is the substantive evidence of the things hoped for - the definition of faith.

    I am not taking anyone's word for anything.

    This is not a mathematical equation. It is a reciprocal relationship of obedience, faithfulness and fruitfulness.

    I can practice the math for years and come to the same conclusion you do. Can you practice the obedience and faithfulness for years?

    "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

    This thread has gone OT too many times and our discussion here is OT as well.

    Best regards!
  26. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I'm not sure how one can rationalize their opposition to this Mosque being built, yet in the very same breath support the right of this "reverend" to burn copies of the Qur'an. Apart from the hypocrisy, it pushes the notion that one form of religious expression is superior to the other, and that speaks to the heart of this issue, that organized religion inherently creates walls of division, rather than seeking to find the bigger picture. This is a nuanced issue, and it should be addressed as such.
  27. NutraPlanet Fanatic
    dsade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    21,349
    Rep Power
    770814

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I'm not sure how one can rationalize their opposition to this Mosque being built, yet in the very same breath support the right of this "reverend" to burn copies of the Qur'an. Apart from the hypocrisy, it pushes the notion that one form of religious expression is superior to the other, and that speaks to the heart of this issue, that organized religion inherently creates walls of division, rather than seeking to find the bigger picture. This is a nuanced issue, and it should be addressed as such.
    But that's just it...after seeing the interview on CNN with this reverand, so many people actually believe that their partiular flavor of "Magic Sorcerer Fantasy" is somehow so obviously true (even though veracity and amount of evidence is the same for all...zero) that they are justified to commit any act/spout any stupidity in the name of this "truth".
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    BPS - Where Body meets Performance
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
  28. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Similarly in the reverse, I can't understand at all how Hillary Clinton or any of the other democrat talking heads can support the construction of a permanent trophy mosque overlooking ground zero for decades while a symbolic 1 day protest of burning the Quaran is a total nightmare and should be suppressed.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  29. Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,385
    Rep Power
    956431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Similarly in the reverse, I can't understand at all how Hillary Clinton or any of the other democrat talking heads can support the construction of a permanent trophy mosque overlooking ground zero for decades while a symbolic 1 day protest of burning the Quaran is a total nightmare and should be suppressed.
    Its not a mosque for goodness sakes, and I will say this on the Qu'ran burning, that has the potential to incite violence, whereas the Muslim "Y" does not
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  30. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I'm all for religious expression. If Tom Cruise wants to believe the mother-ship is near and will be picking him up soon, I say go for it. It's when you start to apply and impart your religious beliefs in a way that impacts the lives of others, then you cross into territory that's dangerous. George Bush Jr, an underachiever by all accounts, became president because the moral majority decided that a lie about a BJ was too much for Jesus to handle, never mind issues that are more relevant to our lives like the economy and security, no let's cast political votes based on peripheral social issues of minor importance, because you friended Jesus on your facebook page.
  31. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235091

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    This thread has gone OT too many times and our discussion here is OT as well.

    Best regards!
    David,

    I agree that we have gone completely off topic. Also we are both (If I do say so myself ) quite intelligent people that are very strong in our convictions. Thats a formula for a religious debate of no end, and quite frankly, no progress for either side of the argument. So while I will continue to respectfully disagree with your and other(s)'s views on religion, we can let that go.

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I'm not sure how one can rationalize their opposition to this Mosque being built, yet in the very same breath support the right of this "reverend" to burn copies of the Qur'an. Apart from the hypocrisy, it pushes the notion that one form of religious expression is superior to the other, and that speaks to the heart of this issue, that organized religion inherently creates walls of division, rather than seeking to find the bigger picture. This is a nuanced issue, and it should be addressed as such.
    SouthPaw, the issue of the mosque really is a non-issue. It is bigotry at its finest. It is an "our religion vs. your religion" thing. Overall the whole thing has provided quite the distraction from real issues we are currently facing. Those against it are the same who sing the praises of the consitution, claim to be libertarian and supporters of Ron Paul (who openly called the mosque issue, and I quote, "all about hate and islamophobia"), and are for religious freedom, as long as it is their religion. Terrorists/Extremists do not make up a strong representation of the Islamic faith, no more than the extremist christians that murder doctors of abortion clinics (which I am sure at least one person here will hypocritically justify), are involved in murder/crime/pedophilia are representative of the christian community.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  32. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Similarly in the reverse, I can't understand at all how Hillary Clinton or any of the other democrat talking heads can support the construction of a permanent trophy mosque overlooking ground zero for decades while a symbolic 1 day protest of burning the Quaran is a total nightmare and should be suppressed.
    Because neither of those issues are synonymous. One issue is relative to a form of religious expression (Mosque), while the other is clearly an indictment on that form of religious expression, entirely different context and intent behind both examples.

    Hillary's job is to travel around the world preaching religious tolerance and inclusion, it's in the best interest of our national security for her to do so.
  33. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    David,

    I agree that we have gone completely off topic. Also we are both (If I do say so myself ) quite intelligent people that are very strong in our convictions. Thats a formula for a religious debate of no end, and quite frankly, no progress for either side of the argument. So while I will continue to respectfully disagree with your and other(s)'s views on religion, we can let that go.



    SouthPaw, the issue of the mosque really is a non-issue. It is bigotry at its finest. It is an "our religion vs. your religion" thing. Overall the whole thing has provided quite the distraction from real issues we are currently facing. Those against it are the same who sing the praises of the consitution, claim to be libertarian and supporters of Ron Paul (who openly called the mosque issue, and I quote, "all about hate and islamophobia"), and are for religious freedom, as long as it is their religion. Terrorists/Extremists do not make up a strong representation of the Islamic faith, no more than the extremist christians that murder doctors of abortion clinics (which I am sure at least one person here will hypocritically justify), are involved in murder/crime/pedophilia are representative of the christian community.
    I couldn't agree more. I know of many Muslim Americans personally, who are adamantly opposed to any form of violence or religious exclusion, and label these acts as both cowardly and shameful.
  34. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Its not a mosque for goodness sakes, and I will say this on the Qu'ran burning, that has the potential to incite violence, whereas the Muslim "Y" does not
    it is a mosque as well as a Y, calling it a Y is just another liberal game to try and remove the fact that people will be worshipping the same god that in numerous subdivisions of the religion calls for death to all infidels and for them to take over the planet within viewing range (probably with a nice private balcony so the high roller sheik contributors cal look out over and laugh) of ground zero. Islam has a long history of building trophy mosques where they had a military victory.

    And it will incite violence, it already has. There was a burning down of a mosque under construction in Tennessee, and the only reason there hasn't been any violence at Park 51 is that they haven't started construction yet.

    Again, why is there a need to be sensitive to them when they are unwilling to be sensitive to us? Stepping aside from even the radical islamist who were behind the actual 9/11 attacks, a large amount of the muslim world still hates America. See what they think of us building a christian church almost anywhere in the middle east. I know Iranians who were forced to flee their country due to the fact that they were christians.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  35. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Because neither of those issues are synonymous. One issue is relative to a form of religious expression (Mosque), while the other is clearly an indictment on that form of religious expression, entirely different context and intent behind both examples.

    Hillary's job is to travel around the world preaching religious tolerance and inclusion, it's in the best interest of our national security for her to do so.
    They are only different in the fact that the mosque is permanent, while the burining of the quaran is a 1 day event. Freedom of expression is freedom of expression, not limited by intent or context. You can't rationally be for either one of these, without also being for the other.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  36. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235091

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Please let the following picture sink in for a minute:

    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  37. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    They are only different in the fact that the mosque is permanent, while the burining of the quaran is a 1 day event. Freedom of expression is freedom of expression, not limited by intent or context. You can't rationally be for either one of these, without also being for the other.
    Not entirely sure how the permanence of one issue, relates to the nature of the other? While both are forms of expression, that's where the similarities end, as contextually the intent behind both examples are conflicting ideologies, I.E religious expression versus religious intolerance.

    That "reverend" has every right in the world to express himself, but in doing so, he is selfishly doing it at the peril of others and preaching exclusion. I was under the impression that Christians were taught to humbles themselves under the eyes of their god, no matter the circumstances? This will become a recruitment tape, shown all around the Arab world, even in places where western influence has infiltrated their culture.
  38. Never enough
    Board Moderator
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,830
    Rep Power
    768794

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Not entirely sure how the permanence of one issue, relates to the nature of the other? While both are forms of expression, that's where the similarities end, as contextually the intent behind both examples are conflicting ideologies, I.E religious expression versus religious intolerance.
    It entirely does. His affront to them is a 1 day deal, the Islamic affront to the US for building the mosque there will last till its demolished.

    And why is buring the Quaran a religious intolerance issue? Its a protest against the specific branch of islamics that takes the Quaran and has warped it into extremety - Wahabism. It should be a wakeup call for moderate Islamics to do something about excluding people who are radicals from being involved, which so far still has not been happening.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
  39. Professional Member
    southpaw23's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,376
    Rep Power
    1387263

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    It entirely does. His affront to them is a 1 day deal, the Islamic affront to the US for building the mosque there will last till its demolished.

    And why is buring the Quaran a religious intolerance issue? Its a protest against the specific branch of islamics that takes the Quaran and has warped it into extremety - Wahabism. It should be a wakeup call for moderate Islamics to do something about excluding people who are radicals from being involved, which so far still has not been happening.
    You list a set of "broad" interpretive examples, then apply them in very "specific" ways, none of which makes any rational sense. And secondly it's referred to as Wahhabism. The other word you listed is the thing that comes with Sushi.

    The Bible and the Qur'an are a written set of values, neither of which speak to "specific" segments of any religion. How people interpret those values, are not relevant to the books themselves; interpretation is a personal act. For example if a Christian murders an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity, does the bible now take on a different significance throughout the religious world? Obviously not.

    Burning copies of the Qur'an is an overall rejection and indictment on the religion as a whole, it's not going to be interpreted as being geared towards "specific" radical groups within the religion. Again, neither example share similarities beyond just being mere expressions.
  40. Board Sponsor
    AE14's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    12,385
    Rep Power
    956431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    it is a mosque as well as a Y, calling it a Y is just another liberal game to try and remove the fact that people will be worshipping the same god that in numerous subdivisions of the religion calls for death to all infidels and for them to take over the planet within viewing range (probably with a nice private balcony so the high roller sheik contributors cal look out over and laugh) of ground zero. Islam has a long history of building trophy mosques where they had a military victory.

    And it will incite violence, it already has. There was a burning down of a mosque under construction in Tennessee, and the only reason there hasn't been any violence at Park 51 is that they haven't started construction yet.

    Again, why is there a need to be sensitive to them when they are unwilling to be sensitive to us? Stepping aside from even the radical islamist who were behind the actual 9/11 attacks, a large amount of the muslim world still hates America. See what they think of us building a christian church almost anywhere in the middle east. I know Iranians who were forced to flee their country due to the fact that they were christians.
    wow.....lets let the partisan nonsense go at this point. This is not political, it is just common sense. This is a 13 story structure, where I believe only 2 floors CAN BE used for worship. I guess to you that constitutes a Mosque, however to me (as a native Nyer) it does not.

    As an aside, you do realize how m any churches and temples there are in the Middle East, right?

    Also, to state that the same god that calls for death to the infidels tells me that you have never read the Qu'ran. In which case this discussion goes no further IMO as it becomes a bunch of monkees flinging poo at each other.
    Controlled Labs Head Board Rep
    adam @ ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Ground beef or ground turkey?
    By Pezz in forum Bulking
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  2. 80% ground beef?
    By Machwon1 in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 07:44 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-17-2010, 08:12 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-30-2007, 08:44 PM
  5. Testing Ground
    By Fabulous One in forum Millennium Sport Technologies
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-28-2007, 12:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in