Obama to support ground zero mosque

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Watch how fast that mosque gets bombed! It's a good way for them to continue their religious war here on our soil. They know most Americans won't stand for it. As soon as a mosque is bombed in the US all hell is going to break loose AND they KNOW it. Its part of their plan in my opinion. Here, we can disagree and have a discussion. This country is on the verge of civil war. We're divided on so many issues and I think this is the straw that breaks the camels back. I would hate to see my neighbors killing each other but, hey, lets do it in the name of religion.---How about don't ask don't tell. Some people feel so strongly about their sexuality but because it causes so many problems, there's a rule in place. Let people worship god but keep it to themselves. Don't need to know what people do in their bedroom, Don't care how you worship god. Just leave me out of it.
    A war, as tragic and sad as it is, seems necessary. War is a catalyst for mankind, it is also a way to thin our numbers, and cut out some of the problematic genetics through survival. A nice good long war would cut out our obesity issue, toss the control of the federal government, thin out the population, and afterwards restart our economy. I say that last bit because I can promise you all the rich old farts wont make it through the war lol.

    Worst side effects? Most likely people of muslim appearance would be shot on sight in a full scale civil war, let them start it, I think they are underestimating how much anger people are holding back against them and they will be crushed utterly and removed from these lands. Also rednecks would hunt illegal immigrants, there would likely be severe racism in a white vs black sense and small conflicts of that alone, and many children would suffer from the war.

    But all in all, I think its needed. America is one huge ball of anger held back by political correctness restrictions. Time to let it flow it seems. Post 2nd revolution, 2nd civil war whatever it becomes remembered as, our country will be better for it.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I love the freedom of religion argument. As no one here is saying to stop the practice of a religion. But building a mosque on the same hallowed ground that many families lost their loved ones to Islamic radicals is a huge provocation.
    Gee sounds like there shouldn't be a single building on american soil, because we trompled all over the american indians hallowed ground and forced them into concentration camps that we decided to cal "reservations" because it sounds nicer.

    New York City, the area with jurisdiction, had the capability to block the center in multiple ways - zoning the building as a historic site, refusing permits, etc. It did not. So to call it hallowed ground seems pretty funny if the people who actually live there don't consider it that way.
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  3. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Obama needs to keep his Muslim opinion and endorsement to himself.

    Let's build a Christian Church at Ground Zero of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

  4. how about turning ground zero to some fuqing buildings, over 10 years and im tired of this shyt, this country looks so helpless.

    this is going to be the new shanghai skyline soon,

    that 1 tower with a hole in is just recently opened, i went to the 90th floor (out of about 110) and looked down on the older tower (looks like an asian empire state building) i visited several years ago.

    that spiral building will be up before you know it, and they are building these twin tower style buildings by there too soon. i think its going to be 130 floors or something like that. look it up.

    so where the hell is all the outrage on no buildings going up, the media is detracting out attention to little things and doing it very successfully.

    Last edited by ax1; 08-15-2010 at 04:22 PM.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!

  5. Has everyone here heard of "Separation of Church and State? Does everyone know that the State Department will be "footing the bill" for Feisal Abdul Rauf, to go on a religious tour of the Middle East. To foster "greater understanding" about Muslim communities in the United States. THIS is unconstitutional. Why are our taxes being paid for this. The man behind the mosque is an employee of Obama's administration. Obama is promoting Islam on our dollar. Of course Obama is backing him.
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  6. A peaceful end to this would be nice, but I think this just may spark the fires of the old "holy war" idea on both sides. Muslims are definitely making a push to become dominate.

    FYI, they will NEVER tell me what to do. I have a mind, one capable of learning and adapting... And of being an American and kicking @$$ if the need arises

  7. Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    Has everyone here heard of "Separation of Church and State? Does everyone know that the State Department will be "footing the bill" for Feisal Abdul Rauf, to go on a religious tour of the Middle East. To foster "greater understanding" about Muslim communities in the United States. THIS is unconstitutional. Why are our taxes being paid for this. The man behind the mosque is an employee of Obama's administration. Obama is promoting Islam on our dollar. Of course Obama is backing him.
    No, you misunderstand separation of church and state. Since Islam is not just a religion, but also the political view of other countries, we have to deal with those countries that use Shariah law and can't ignore the impact of their religion. And separation of church and state applies to inside the USA, our government espousing or sponsoring or granting one religion preference over others. Not as far as how we deal in foreign relations.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    our government espousing or sponsoring or granting one religion preference over others.
    And unfortunately this is happening right before our eyes as a Greek orthodox church is being roadblocked because of zoning issues having problems with its plans being taller than the memorial.. BUT the mosque is quite a bit taller and the road is clear. The Greek orthodox church was there prior to the WTC towers and fell when tower 2 fell.
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  9. Found a great little article here:

    "Mosque Moves Forward, Yet Church in Limbo," by Mark Impomeni in Human Events, August 9:

    The battle raging over the Ground Zero mosque is bringing new attention to another, less publicized controversy involving a house of worship in Lower Manhattan.

    St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which once sat right across the street from the World Trade Center, was crushed under the weight of the collapse of Tower Two on September 11, 2001. St. Nicholas was the only church to be lost in the attacks, and nine years later, while City of New York officials are busy removing every impediment to the building of the Cordoba mosque two blocks from the site, St. Nicholas' future remains unclear.

    The last bit of hopeful news for St. Nicholas came two years ago, in July 2008, when church officials and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey announced a deal which would have allowed the church to be rebuilt about two blocks from its original location.

    The Port Authority agreed to give the church a parcel of land at Liberty and Greenwich Streets, and contribute $20 million toward construction of a new sanctuary. The Port Authority also agreed to build an explosion-proof platform and foundation for the new church building, which would sit on top of a screening area for cars and trucks entering the underground garages at the new World Trade Center.

    Trouble emerged after St. Nicholas announced its plans to build a traditional Greek Orthodox church building, 24,000 square feet in size, topped with a grand dome. Port Authority officials told the church to cut back the size of the building and the height of the proposed dome, limiting it to rising no higher than the World Trade Center memorial. The deal fell apart for goodin March 2009, when the Port Authority abruptly ended the talks after refusing to allow church officials to review plans for the garage and screening area underneath. Sixteen months later, the two sides have still not met to resume negotiations.

    St. Nicholas Church's difficulty in getting approvals to rebuild stands in stark contrast to the treatment that the developers of the proposed Cordoba mosque have received. New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, state Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo, and a raft of city officials have all come out publicly in favor of building the mosque, and the city's Landmarks and Preservation Commission recently voted unanimously to deny protection to the building currently occupying the site where the mosque is to be built.

    The mosque is proposed to rise 13 stories, far above the height of the World Trade Center memorial, with no height restrictions imposed....
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    And unfortunately this is happening right before our eyes as a Greek orthodox church is being roadblocked because of zoning issues having problems with its plans being taller than the memorial.. BUT the mosque is quite a bit taller and the road is clear. The Greek orthodox church was there prior to the WTC towers and fell when tower 2 fell.
    see now that I can agree with and be against them doing

  11. A war sounds like a great idea...now, if you will just go ahead and select some parents, siblings, and other loved ones that you are willing to feed into the culling machinery for extermination and betterment of the species...
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    A war sounds like a great idea...now, if you will just go ahead and select some parents, siblings, and other loved ones that you are willing to feed into the culling machinery for extermination and betterment of the species...
    Essentially that is the brutal honesty of what is coming. Consider it like unto a man who will cut off his own arm if it is necessary to survive. Society will do the same, or else as a whole die.

    IE something that happened on the news a couple years ago. A man went hiking by himself in some ravines, a minor rockslide caught him and a bolder(weighing something like 1200 lbs) pinned and crushed his arm. The poor bastard after waiting for a time(day or two???) cut his arm off with a pocket knife....sheering and stabbing the tendons at the join where the elbow is and ripping his arm free...

    Not pretty, hurts like hell, but it was the only way he survived...That time is sadly coming on a wide scale.


    War and death are the curse of mankind. With it we die, and yet without it we die.

  13. Here is an interesting read on why there are so many radical muslims. Dying as a martyr guarantees entry into Heaven according to Islam. In Islam, on judgement day, you have to have done more good works than bad works to get in. The only surefire way a person will know they get in and the only way that supersedes a life of GOOd vs Bad is to die a martyr. If you aren't a soldier in an actual battle, it is hard to be killed in holy war. So the only way around that is to kill yourself and other innocent people in the name of Allah. That is the fundamental teaching in islam. If people ignore this little detail, they will never understand why muslims are radical and want to kill non muslims. It hs nothing to do with tolerance because Islam is completely intolerant. This is at the heart of radical islam.
    Are there Muslims that don't subscfibew tp this theology? Sure. But people have tp understand the root cause. Appeasing Muslims that want to die and kill you with them doesn't work.



  14. in reviewing it more, the guy's ties to hamas are strong enough that i'm reversing my earlier opinion, and no longer believe he should be allowed to build this. I don't have a problem with a mosque being built there, but not at the hands of this guy. If this were still a Bush presidency, I'd almost bet this guy's bank accounts would be seized as part of funding terrorist Hamas activities.

  15. It's not a question of religious freedom, it's more of a moral issue. They are exploiting the American rights, laughing at us behind our backs. There are certain unspoken and unwritten rules to life in general, some lines you just don't cross. Unfortunately for the "good" muslim people, this is only going to create more hatred and controversy toward them because of many peoples ignorant and blanketed views.

  16. Simple point that needs to be taken into account. Christians and other Americans cant offend muslims through any action, so why can a muslim offend a Christian as well as the entire American population by one and it be ok?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    Here is an interesting read on why there are so many radical muslims. Dying as a martyr guarantees entry into Heaven according to Islam. In Islam, on judgement day, you have to have done more good works than bad works to get in. The only surefire way a person will know they get in and the only way that supersedes a life of GOOd vs Bad is to die a martyr. If you aren't a soldier in an actual battle, it is hard to be killed in holy war. So the only way around that is to kill yourself and other innocent people in the name of Allah. That is the fundamental teaching in islam. If people ignore this little detail, they will never understand why muslims are radical and want to kill non muslims. It hs nothing to do with tolerance because Islam is completely intolerant. This is at the heart of radical islam.
    Are there Muslims that don't subscfibew tp this theology? Sure. But people have tp understand the root cause. Appeasing Muslims that want to die and kill you with them doesn't work.
    There also seem to be a lot of Christians that don't subscribe to the whole killing witches, killing disobedient children, etc. orders contained in the bible. Christianity, if followed to the letter, is just as intolerant.

    They are called extremists for a reason.
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  18. How many Christians hijacked 2 planes and flew them into the World Trade Center. Its comparing apples to oranges. Christians aren't on a mission to destroy any and all non Christians. How many Catholic terrorists groups are on the terror watch list? Any muslim that is a fundamental worshiper and follower is taught to kill non believers. Christianity does not teach you must kill others to ensure entry into heaven. That is why muslims become suicide bombers. You can't gloss over that one fact.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you.
    ya most people i know disagree....it is a touchy subject

  20. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/polit...100353429.html


    ^^^^^^VOTE NOW!!!! 44% furious against this project!^^^^^^


    http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-cont...enter_Site.htm


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10989002


    A Marist poll of voters in New York City found 53% opposed the mosque. Only 34% thought it would facilitate cultural understanding while half thought it was offensive.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10991021


    Majority of NYC Voters Oppose Mosque Near WTC Site… Half Call It “Offensive”

    53% oppose constructing the mosque two blocks from Ground Zero while 34% favor its development. 13% are unsure.

    Republicans are expressing the most dissatisfaction with the new structure. 74% oppose building a cultural center which includes a place of worship while just 16% of the city’s GOP support the move. Half of Democrats and 52% of non-enrolled voters think the mosque should not be erected while 38% and 35%, respectively, believe it should.

    68% of Republicans believe the mosque is offensive to those who died in the terrorist attacks while 20% believe it will foster understanding about Islam. 47% of Democrats think the center insults the victims and their families compared with 37% of those who see the mosque as a move toward tolerance. The same proportions of non-enrolled voters — 47% and 37%, respectively — share these opinions.

    http://maristpoll.marist.edu/810-blo...in-five-years/

  21. As an intellectual, understanding, and smart human being with the capability of fore thought in predicting future events, and predicting the reactions of the masses... why would anyone agree to build a mosque near ground zero?

    That is one the most moronic ideas anyone could agree upon.

    You MUST know it will be controversial, you MUST know it will be hated, and YOU must know the possibility of danger that lurks... not from terrorists, but danger at the hands of angry Americans (or angry humans not to generalize to Americans). Some humans have such low moral values that they will attack the mosque itself with rocks, bricks, graffiti, and HATE. You MUST know this will happen. So then, why would you build this mosque?

    Are the builders and people agreeing to do this living in some fantasy land with world peace? I don't think anyone is that stupid. This is the real world. You know you are asking for trouble building something like this.

    You know there are many Americans who will disagree, but will never act on their disagreement.

    But..

    You know there are a few Americans who will disagree, and ACT on their anger.

    Whoever is building this must be a retard not to predict the trouble brewing from this. They are welcoming the trouble... I'm telling you.

  22. Theres a big difference between what people are allowed to do in America and what might be considered socially appropriate.

    Conservatives love to talk about freedom until it comes to people they disagree with (Muslims, homosexuals, science, etc.). This is an issue based on religious tolerance, a fundamental issue when it comes to the American dialog.

    Is it distasteful? Yes, at least in the current social climate (maybe too soon). Do they have a right to do it? **** yes, if you disagree then you I dont know whart the ****. This is AMERICA. Worship who you want. If you have the money then build where you want. Capitalism at work.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by nice jorts View Post
    Theres a big difference between what people are allowed to do in America and what might be considered socially appropriate.

    Conservatives love to talk about freedom until it comes to people they disagree with (Muslims, homosexuals, science, etc.). This is an issue based on religious tolerance, a fundamental issue when it comes to the American dialog.

    Is it distasteful? Yes, at least in the current social climate (maybe too soon). Do they have a right to do it? **** yes, if you disagree then you I dont know whart the ****. This is AMERICA. Worship who you want. If you have the money then build where you want. Capitalism at work.
    An Liberals love to talk about equality until it comes to people of the Christian faith. If this was anything about religous tolerance and equality, the Greek Orthodox church would be built as well, but they got shot down, and the Mosque got fast tracked through without the same guidelines as the Orthodox church.

    And the Church was there prior to 9/11. To say this is anything about religous tolerance is ignorant to the debate at hand.
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  24. this is why i dont believe in anything...i just live my life and try to live happy. Almost every religion has a very violent past and present. people praise something and think they are good people and then start killing which isnt what a "religous" person should do. try being a good person instead. makes no sense at all. its a vicious cycle and nothing gets resolved ever. i respect everyones beliefs otherwise. im not educated enough on this topic to the level that you all are but i felt that i wanted to say something.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    It's not a question of religious freedom, it's more of a moral issue. They are exploiting the American rights, laughing at us behind our backs. There are certain unspoken and unwritten rules to life in general, some lines you just don't cross. Unfortunately for the "good" muslim people, this is only going to create more hatred and controversy toward them because of many peoples ignorant and blanketed views.
    this is exactly what is happening in my eyes. they know this is the place they can get away with it.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    An Liberals love to talk about equality until it comes to people of the Christian faith. If this was anything about religous tolerance and equality, the Greek Orthodox church would be built as well, but they got shot down, and the Mosque got fast tracked through without the same guidelines as the Orthodox church.

    And the Church was there prior to 9/11. To say this is anything about religous tolerance is ignorant to the debate at hand.
    The issue with the greek orthodox church was that they wanted taxpayer supported funds in the form of money and free land (i believe in excess of $40-$60 dollars) whereas the mosque is being built complete on purchased land using private funds.

    Apples and oranges.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    The issue with the greek orthodox church was that they wanted taxpayer supported funds in the form of money and free land (i believe in excess of $40-$60 dollars) whereas the mosque is being built complete on purchased land using private funds.

    Apples and oranges.
    Incorrect, it was a zoning issue that it would be taller than allowed, but the mosque is not following this same guideline.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Incorrect, it was a zoning issue that it would be taller than allowed, but the mosque is not following this same guideline.
    Not what this says at all:

    Arey was referring to the address, about 100 yards away from the original site, where the government earlier proposed relocating the church. The Port Authority and the church announced a deal in July 2008 under which the Port Authority would grant land and up to $20 million to help rebuild the church -- in addition, the authority was willing to pay up to $40 million to construct a bomb-proof platform underneath.

    Within a year, the deal fell through and talks ended -- apparently for good, according to the Port Authority.

    The archdiocese and Port Authority now offer sharply conflicting accounts of where things went wrong. The Port Authority has claimed the church was making additional demands -- like wanting the $20 million up front and wanting to review plans for the surrounding area. They say the church can still proceed on its own if it wishes.


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...o-church-dead/
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    How many Christians hijacked 2 planes and flew them into the World Trade Center. Its comparing apples to oranges. Christians aren't on a mission to destroy any and all non Christians. How many Catholic terrorists groups are on the terror watch list? Any muslim that is a fundamental worshiper and follower is taught to kill non believers. Christianity does not teach you must kill others to ensure entry into heaven. That is why muslims become suicide bombers. You can't gloss over that one fact.
    We didn't have those tools available when we did it. We drowned, burned and tortured people in all sorts of ways during The Crusades. its really not apples to oranges, its apples to apples....we just got it out of our system early. Granted its in the past but we were just as bad at one point. I'm currently getting ready to go on deployment and I don't hate muslims. Most muslims are tolerant and pacifist, some even want our help. That being said, I don't mind a mosque being built but with the stipulations that the funder has no ties to terrorist groups and that the church can be built as well. Muslim extremist are a minority of the religion, unfortunately the media doesn't focus on the muslims that are on our side. There are muslims all over the world...should we hate all of them? Also, for those of you that think we should stoop to their level, you're pretty much asking for more American soldiers to die. During Desert Storm thousands of Husseins soldiers layed down arms without firing a single shot at us because they knew they would be treated humanely. That's. That's that many less of the enemy that the U.S. had to worry about during fire fights. There's a reason for everything we do and why only 1% of us do it. I'm not sympathetic to muslim extremist and I hate terrorist, but we can't classify all muslims into 1 group. We have a constitution for a reason and it applies to everyone.
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