can anyone clarify this? i cant get it to work.You post the URL or copy and post all of the text in the URL after the "=" symbol and bracket it between [yt]<-these->[/yt]
I have been following Prop 19 pretty closely. I hope it passes. The rest of the country will be forced to crumble. California will hit new waves of tourism, and it will be to hard to border the weed, so it would be easily transported out of the state. If states are getting more mj in their state, they mine as well be making tax money from it.There's some progress on this front going on in California(only on this front though in California).
Prop 19 in California
Here is a video of Milton Friedman detailing the reasons why the drug war should be ended, my favorite part of this is when he acknowledges that there may be more drug users if they are legal. However, a drug user isn't an innocent victim, whereas a kid killed in a driveby shooting in a turf war is an innocent victim. He says it better than me, except he is so old and white he calls it a passby shooting.YouTube- Milton Friedman - Why Drugs Should Be Legalized
Yours isn't showing either!
Quote me and see how I did it.
LOL I didnt even check, fix'd.Yours isn't showing either!
Me and my Dad hit heads viciously when it comes to Politics, but we both would like to see Ron Paul as a serious candidate. Unfortunately, we both agree on one thing.I am afraid that Obama might be re elected for the same reason he made it the 1st time.
Can not remember who said The people will allways get the gov they DESERVE.
I tend to agree.
Hopefully one day enough people will wake up and elect some one like Mr. Ron Paul.
I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.I have been following Prop 19 pretty closely. I hope it passes. The rest of the country will be forced to crumble. California will hit new waves of tourism, and it will be to hard to border the weed, so it would be easily transported out of the state. If states are getting more mj in their state, they mine as well be making tax money from it.
why? why is it hilariously a bad idea?That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.
I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.
Before I state my opinion on the matter, I would love to see you justify your comment.I hope so too. I want all the hippies, weed obsessed dregs of society, and degenerates to move there (more than the usual batch). That said, legalizing all drugs, like coke, heroin, and ecstasy is a hilariously bad idea.
Are you discussing the legalization of Marijuana? Please, please inform me of why you think this would be a bad idea?This is a horrible idea. The only way I'd be ok with it is if they tested for drugs for goverment assistance and loosened gun laws.
I support the same thing. Decriminalization across the board and legalization in for certain things. Focus our drug war money on abuse prevention and recovery, rather then filling a jail cell.Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who wants to preserve the true spirit of America and for that I applaud him
I'd like to see everything decriminalized. And a lot of things legalized. Mainly weed and steroids. Hey i think prostitution should be OK too. Weed, roids and hookers, man you are set.
good post.......I support the same thing. Decriminalization across the board and legalization in for certain things. Focus our drug war money on abuse prevention and recovery, rather then filling a jail cell.
but marijuana is illegal, and widely used. the point is making it illegal wont stop anybody from doing it.Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users. We actually tried a program to take drug users only with no violent crimes and give them treatment. Well they had to open the door violent crimes too because they did not have enough people in the program to justify having the program. They had to stop violating the drug users to show the program as a success because treatment does not work. Yes, continued drug use and new misd, and felonys were still considered a success.
As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.
I am going to highly (no pun - I am at work) disagree.Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users. We actually tried a program to take drug users only with no violent crimes and give them treatment. Well they had to open the door violent crimes too because they did not have enough people in the program to justify having the program. They had to stop violating the drug users to show the program as a success because treatment does not work. Yes, continued drug use and new misd, and felonys were still considered a success.
As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.
Word.I support the same thing. Decriminalization across the board and legalization in for certain things. Focus our drug war money on abuse prevention and recovery, rather then filling a jail cell.
I love conservatives that consider themselves "fiscally conservative" but are pro drug war. Do you know how much of your tax dollars go towards keeping a kid in jail who sold some weed to his buddies?!?!
Bro, I live in Vancouver. If that were the case then some 20% of the city would be violent criminals.Yes, legalization of marj is a not a good idea. I'm a probation officer so I see the damage. Some have this theory that there are drug users that are not hurting anyone and should not go to jail. Well most are violent drug users.
Just like the cost of a death sentence needs only be $0.79 for the bullet? Sorry not that simple...As far as costs of locking them up. Tent city costs very little.
why? why is it hilariously a bad idea?
Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.Before I state my opinion on the matter, I would love to see you justify your comment.
Morons? Kinda the pot calling the kettle black dontcha think? Err wait, no you don't, sorry...Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.
Once again, as anytime you try to involve yourself in a discussion, you come off as completely uninformed.Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.
"While the gateway theory has enjoyed popular acceptance, scientists have always had their doubts," said lead researcher Andrew Morral, associate director of RAND's Public Safety and Justice unit. "Our study shows that these doubts are justified." [Unlike your random ranting, here is a source]
Patterns in progression of drug use from adolescence to adulthood are strikingly regular. Because it is the most widely used illicit drug, marijuana is predictably the first illicit drug most people encounter. Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana -- usually before they are of legal age.
…
There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs. [Again, Source'd]
"Although the use of [marijuana] is not harmless, the current knowledge base does not support the assertion that it has any notable adverse public health impact in relation to mortality," Sidney concludes [Yay, even WebMD is more informed then you]
2.The DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care." [Clearly this quote came from a pot smoking liberal, right? Nope... THIS IS FROM THE DEA]
Yet, Despite this long history of use and extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that marijuana has caused a single death [Same Source-DEA]
The human psychical experience is simply phenomenal in its ability to produce such varying perspectives from experiences of an equal severity. I have seen all the unsavory acts you mention here, and more to boot, and yet I managed to avoid making such a fundamental error of attribution as to paint the activity as such with such a broad and intrinsically negative stroke.Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.
ok, so its illegal, and you see this happening all the time. so it being illegal is a waste of tax dollars.Okay naive morons. Go spend some time around rehab clinics. Go watch crack heads steal anything for money. Watch a heroin addict shoot up behind an alley. Watch a coke head freak out when they need a fix. Go watch someone suck **** to get more acid. Ive seen all of these in person, save for the acid, I wasnt actually watching. You are all ****ing idiots who have no concept of what people are getting into. You want to legalize this ****? Fine. Pay for their rehab, tell the kids to just say no. Tell them heroin needs to be used responsibly. I mean, since the government seems to want to have the rich pay for all our healthcare, why not put all the rehab stays and treatment for these people? Its not their fault! What would be the harm in introducing highly addictive substances into a society where excess and hedonism are the cornerstones of our contemporary culture? You want to pay for someones rehab stay(s)? Fine, my tax dollars wont. Legalizing drugs going well is a ****ing pipe dream. I love yalls attitudes. "You know what America needs!?! More legal addictive drugs! NOW!" It cracks me up that California is campaigning to ban smoking cigarettes and is trying to legalize weed, among other things. Just lol.
Mulletsoldier I salute you,that was a very thorough response to TexasTitans typical insulting,adolescent tirade.The human psychical experience is simply phenomenal in its ability to produce such varying perspectives from experiences of an equal severity. I have seen all the unsavory acts you mention here, and more to boot, and yet I managed to avoid making such a fundamental error of attribution as to paint the activity as such with such a broad and intrinsically negative stroke.
Rather, I gleaned that such individuals tend toward illegality not due to some evil inherent within the act of ingesting elicit compounds, nor due to terminal flaws in the fabric of their characters, but precisely and only because the act itself is and was already illegal: which is to say, the peripheral activities of drug use (theft and larceny, assault, et al) occur primarily because the central activities of drug use (acquiring and using them) exist in a social context which predicts the former.
While I concede your point that the mortally addictive nature of elicit drug use contributes earnestly to the issue, I could recite a litany of compounds with similarly addictive natures that do not result in such indirectly destructive behaviors. The distinguishing feature, here, is that the avenues of obtainment for these other addictive compounds - pharmacies for prescription medications and liquor stores for alcohol, namely - have been legitimized, and subsist in a social atmosphere which provides collective normative constraints that prevent such behaviors as a result.
Does an alcoholic, for example, not commit such acts because alcohol is less addictive than its illegal counterparts, or because alcoholics are vested with a sense of moral aptitude that drug addicts do not possess? No, of course not, and suggesting as much is absurd. They do not because they are permitted to conduct the central activity of their addiction (obtaining and drinking alcohol) through legitimate channels which carry pressures to conduct oneself in a particular manner - and needless to say, purchasing heroin in a back alley does not come associated with such constraints.
I could pose a thought experiment asking you to reverse the legalities of elicit drugs and alcohol in an effort to consider what the consequence would be, but luckily, that is not necessary: tradition already proffers an answer of what occurred when alcohol was made illegal, and displays what activities seemingly normal people are willing to engage in when they are placed in the right context. Unfortunately, you have not managed to make yourself a student of history, and your premises fail miserably on those grounds.
Cry about it. Really. The whole "dont resort to insults" thing is just a cop out. Thanks for playing.Morons? Kinda the pot calling the kettle black dontcha think? Err wait, no you don't, sorry...
Maybe read the posts, watch the vids, and do a little homework on the pros and cons of the argument, and make your case in a objective manner instead of resorting to insults.
Once again, as anytime you try to involve yourself in a discussion, you come off as completely uninformed.
"Okay naive morons." - Funny, when I originally asked you for your opinion, I had typed "Immature response in 5...4....3....2...1...", but I erased it because I figured I would give you a chance as coming off as an adult. My trust in people always bites me. But then again, me and you have been at this point before.
Although other drugs were mentioned in this thread, this thread is about marijuana, and more specifically Prop 19 became a focus in discussion. Please inform me of how many people you have seen "sucking ****" for marijuana. I think we all know this doesnt happen
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It simply didnt happen. With the price drop that would inevitably come from legalization, it would be even further from the point of someone becoming that desperate for a hit of a drug that is only shown to be addictive through habitual means, no different then someone who insists on smelling food before eating it. THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol, which is the active canninoid in the marijuana plant, contains no properties leading to a physical addiction, as seen in drugs such as nicotine and hydrocodone.
But you know, those who smoke pot are really just going to slowly move towards crack cocaine and heroin. I mean pot is a gateway drug. Again, not so much.
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Well now that we settled that, we must address the other problems with marijuana we know are true. I think we should attack the core of the problem here. We all know marijuana eats at your brain and is the leading cause of death in america. Oh man, thats not true either? But my parents and the government told me it is!?! Why do people lie to me?
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Oh man, again I can't get over how much I have been lied to. I wonder what other things we have been lied to about.
Also please don't comment on the amount of children who visit rehab for marijuana addiction. We all know they took that option over jail time when they were caught. This is like saying every driver who received a speeding ticket and went to driving school really needs to relearn how to drive. Its a moot argument.
You are anti-governmental control of health care. General arguments for this include the high cost to the upper class (which based on your intelligence level I hope you are not a part of, but you might be upset about daddy's money being taxed before hitting that trust fund). I agree, the health care reform will not be cheap, and rather than get into that argument, lets leave it there. But, why not create an industry here in United States, that would create numerous jobs for our country, from seed experts, to growing, to cultivating, to preparation, to distribution, to retail, while at the same time receiving a very large tax benefit for the country, which might, [I]oh no don't say it[/I], help support health care in the united states. Other arguments for the health reform is that the government should not be in control of your health and make decisions for you receiving care. Why is it then that they should be able to tell you how to use your body, experience your body, and live your life? Especially when it becomes no risk to oneself? Sounds like a big government rule to me.
Lets also look at marijuana scheduling, shall we? It is schedule I drug. That means its bad, really really bad. Or does it? Really a schedule I drug is a drug the DEA believes to be addictive and harmful, with no medicinal benefit. Because we all know that marijuana has shown to have no medicinal benefit. Oh damn, again, I think we have been mislead:
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Alright, so the government doesnt agree that there is a medicinal benefit to marijuana. Fine, if they really don't think it is a medicine, then maybe we should follow their logic. [I]Whats that?[/I] I believe the government does believe in medicinal marijuana? Why do I believe that? Because they approved a patent for marijuana to be used for medicinal reasons [[URL="http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html"]PATENT 6630507[/URL]]. God I love the government.
For additional information, Cocaine/Crack is a schedule II drug, indicating that cocaine has medicinal benefits. But lets not recognize marijuana to have the same benefits.
I also am not going to even get started on the Alcohol vs. Marijuana debate, if you can't wrap your simple mind around that argument, then this discussion is worthless.
Oh and I LOL'd Hard at your cigarette comment. Again, if you don't see tobacco as more harmful to health then marijuana, you are very mislead.
I will address other drugs later, but for now will get back to work.[/quote]
Its hilarious how you complain about being lied to and yet, fully embrace the other side of the issue without considering that..maybe...just maybe...they may be telling some lies themselves. Anyways.
Find out how much prices would drop if legalized. In fact, whatever taxes would be put on it and regulation would raise the price is what I hear. I was talking the entire time about drugs on the whole, but great job isolating the argument purely on marijuana to give yourself a rallying cry.
Exposure to drugs at a young age will inevitably lead a few to try others. Its not the substance itself as much as the lifestyle. This is not a hard reach. Marijuana may not by physically addictive (according to modern research) but the act and lifestyle can be. In the same way they say quitting cigs is almost 50% just holding the cigarette between your fingers and taking breaks since its an embedded part of your lifestyle.
Here anuder dink for you. Go ahead and see what legalization would do to California's budget problems. I think it was estimated that the budget shortfall for the year would have been gapped...a stunning 1/26th from the stuff I saw. So without a huge amount of taxation to make it practically unaffordable, it really wouldnt help pay for jack ****.
You need to get over the fact that marijuana is not a cure all miracle drug. The whole "oh youre big government because you want to regulate drugs" **** doesnt fly. Mind altering substances, something that will impair your judgment and can be addictive, does not fit into the unlimited personal freedom column. You use tunnel vision to make the issue black and white for you. No risk to ones self.
[QUOTE="Mulletsoldier, post: 2526242, member: 18511"]The human psychical experience is simply phenomenal in its ability to produce such varying perspectives from experiences of an equal severity. I have seen all the unsavory acts you mention here, and more to boot, and yet I managed to avoid making such a fundamental error of attribution as to paint the [I]activity as such[/I] with such a broad and intrinsically negative stroke.
Rather, I gleaned that such individuals tend toward illegality not due to some evil inherent within the act of ingesting elicit compounds, nor due to terminal flaws in the fabric of their characters, but precisely and only because the act itself is and was [I]already[/I] illegal: which is to say, the peripheral activities of drug use (theft and larceny, assault, [I]et al[/I]) occur primarily because the central activities of drug use (acquiring and using them) exist in a social context which predicts the former.
While I concede your point that the mortally addictive nature of elicit drug use contributes earnestly to the issue, I could recite a litany of compounds with similarly addictive natures that do not result in such indirectly destructive behaviors. The distinguishing feature, here, is that the avenues of obtainment for these other addictive compounds - pharmacies for prescription medications and liquor stores for alcohol, namely - have been legitimized, and subsist in a social atmosphere which provides collective normative constraints that prevent such behaviors as a result.
Does an alcoholic, for example, not commit such acts because alcohol is less addictive than its illegal counterparts, or because alcoholics are vested with a sense of moral aptitude that drug addicts do not possess? No, of course not, and suggesting as much is absurd. They do not because they are permitted to conduct the central activity of their addiction (obtaining and drinking alcohol) through legitimate channels which carry pressures to conduct oneself in a particular manner - and needless to say, purchasing heroin in a back alley does not come associated with such constraints.
I could pose a thought experiment asking you to reverse the legalities of elicit drugs and alcohol in an effort to consider what the consequence would be, but luckily, that is not necessary: tradition already proffers an answer of what occurred when alcohol was made illegal, and displays what activities seemingly normal people are willing to engage in when they are placed in the right context. Unfortunately, you have not managed to make yourself a student of history, and your premises fail miserably on those grounds.[/quote]
Look, I get it. You really put your heart and soul into it and tried to write something I guess you feel is a leap and bound above my intellect. Way to show me up. Youre an internet champion. You "gleaned" that people do them simply because they are illegal. Cute. I think its hilarious that apparently people do things because they are illegal. Well, I suddenly have the urge to steal and car and kill someone since its illegal. Hot damn. Yeah, Im not buying your brand on, stealing and violence only are results of drugs being illegal. Crack heads would still be stealing anything not bolted down if they could go to a corner store and get it. No really, as long as you guys just want to let the addicts run rampant in the name of personal freedom and give them access to anything they may want, lets just stop paying the DEA and rerout the money to health and human services. No, all those kids born with defects from drug using parents, itll be great. Pay for all these people who are addicts since they wont have any money themselves to pay for it. I dont understand how adding more addictive drugs to the loadout of readily available things to **** yourself up will have a positive net gain. Legalization is condoning it. Lets go clubbing, get some ex, whatever, wooo. So alcoholism is a devastating condition that rips apart families, puts people into massive debt, and a cascade of other negative ramifications. So putting other more addictive, harmful substances on the market will just create a new line of addicts. As you yourself said, alcohol is less addictive. Whereas with many drugs, it can only take a number of uses on less than one hand to be hooked. Then the fun begins. Alcoholics can even attempt to live normal lives. Good luck when you are shaking from needing another shot of heroin. You girls need to see big picture. Peoples lives, finances, health, ability to work, etc etc. How are they positively impacted here. Then you say, well I hate big gubment and it should be our freedom bro. It becomes my problem when my tax dollars have to pay for the cleanup of the mess this would bring on. You either have a impressively naive romantic view of libertarianism or you just refuse to see what the impact would be.
[QUOTE="ax1, post: 2526831, member: 52136"]for your last comment, about making ciggarettes illegal, well i dont think they should be illegal just like all the other drugs. the problem is you compare ciggs to pot. ciggs kill 450,000 americans a year, and pot kills 0, so do the math and you will see a little difference there.[/quote]
BRO, PERSONAL FREEDOM BRO.
[QUOTE="lutherblsstt, post: 2526950"]Mulletsoldier I salute you,that was a very thorough response to TexasTitans typical insulting,adolescent tirade.[/quote]
Shut up luther, youre the biggest ****ing moron on here. Your hilarious fringe idiot propoganda threads are priceless. I hope israeli commandos blow down your door one day. I wont respond to anything you post after this.
Actually, that was and is not my sentiment; however, given that you felt compelled toward preferring that interpretation, I am led to believe you feel that way. I will concede the compliment and move forward.Look, I get it. You really put your heart and soul into it and tried to write something I guess you feel is a leap and bound above my intellect.
Ironically, your inability to extract and comprehend the primary message of my post highly suggests the post was "leaps and bounds above your intellect." The issue here is the context. More on this later.You "gleaned" that people do them simply because they are illegal. Cute. I think its hilarious that apparently people do things because they are illegal. Well, I suddenly have the urge to steal and car and kill someone since its illegal. Hot damn.
Coincidentally, there is nothing for you to "buy," as that is not the message I am "selling." Again, it is your muddied interpretation which may or may not be deliberately crafted to make my initial argument appear weaker.Yeah, Im not buying your brand on, stealing and violence only are results of drugs being illegal.
I cannot imagine which part of my post led to this afield nonsense.Crack heads would still be stealing anything not bolted down if they could go to a corner store and get it. No really, as long as you guys just want to let the addicts run rampant in the name of personal freedom and give them access to anything they may want, lets just stop paying the DEA and rerout the money to health and human services.
While this portion, like your entire bellyaching rant, presents little in the way of a substantive counterposition which even attempts to remain salient to my post, it seems like an appropriate place to summarize my argument in a simple format.Legalization is condoning it. Lets go clubbing, get some ex, whatever, wooo. So alcoholism is a devastating condition that rips apart families, puts people into massive debt, and a cascade of other negative ramifications. So putting other more addictive, harmful substances on the market will just create a new line of addicts. As you yourself said, alcohol is less addictive. Whereas with many drugs, it can only take a number of uses on less than one hand to be hooked. Then the fun begins. Alcoholics can even attempt to live normal lives. Good luck when you are shaking from needing another shot of heroin. You girls need to see big picture. Peoples lives, finances, health, ability to work, etc etc. How are they positively impacted here. Then you say, well I hate big gubment and it should be our freedom bro. It becomes my problem when my tax dollars have to pay for the cleanup of the mess this would bring on. You either have a impressively naive romantic view of libertarianism or you just refuse to see what the impact would be.
Seriously. I have a very serious question. Could you possibly think more of yourself? Evidently, you think you are THE ****. See, all you have done is sugar coat your post which is nothing more than attacking my credibility while trumping up what is nothing more than speculation on your part. You think legalization will bring down the use of drugs and its negative consequences. You could make an arguement organized crime would have less funding. Whatever we save would be directed towards other things like I have said before. Indirect consequences of it. You rephrase and argue many points only when they fit what you are arguing against. Its hilarious how despite how smart you think you are, you still argue like a typical internet cronie, just with an expanded vocabulary. You know what, legalize them. See what happens. See if this utopia you speak of comes about. Lets make our society one of vices. Drugs and prostitution seem to share similar venues but are not similar enough to draw conclusions like you have. Much like the rest of your argument, you declare your speculation as fact while mine is mush. A society of vices can never fail.Actually, that was and is not my sentiment; however, given that you felt compelled toward preferring that interpretation, I am led to believe you feel that way. I will concede the compliment and move forward.
Ironically, your inability to extract and comprehend the primary message of my post highly suggests the post was "leaps and bounds above your intellect." The issue here is the context. More on this later.
Coincidentally, there is nothing for you to "buy," as that is not the message I am "selling." Again, it is your muddied interpretation which may or may not be deliberately crafted to make my initial argument appear weaker.
I cannot imagine which part of my post led to this afield nonsense.
While this portion, like your entire bellyaching rant, presents little in the way of a substantive counterposition which even attempts to remain salient to my post, it seems like an appropriate place to summarize my argument in a simple format.
Your position can be stated as follows, "Drug use, in and of itself, devoid of all other societal factors, leads to theft and larceny, crime, rape, and mortally damaging trends to a given society."
My position, counter to this, can be stated as follows, "Drug use does not, in and of itself, lead to theft and larceny, crime, rape and mortally damaging trends to a given society, and requires the introduction of other societal factors."
Obviously, it is simple to see that my argument in no way resembles what you have here presented. These "other societal factors" are obviously the sum total of criminal elements that will inevitably control nearly all illegitimized activities in the pursuit of profit. While it seems a stretch for you to consider any given topic as existing in terms beyond simple binaries and the limited scope of your geography, I again appeal to both history and cultures other than this one to reveal your perspective as rooted in little else than simple mindedness.
Let us take prostitution, for example, as an elicit activity in the United States which comes associated with other peripheral crimes (drug use, murder, assault, etc). In your limited view, again, the activity itself inherently causes these problems, which ought to predict that conclusion wherever the activity takes place, whether it has been legitimized or not. Obviously, this is nowhere near the case. Countries like Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and some portions of the United States have fully-regulated prostitution industries that have not been shown to induce these activities in their areas of establishment.
As any reasonable person can see how these examples verify my argument, I will end the post here.
i dont mean this as an insult, but arent you being a hypocrite?BRO, PERSONAL FREEDOM BRO.
Nowhere do I even intimate that my perspective is that legalized drug use will induce a "utopia," or that drug use will cease on this basis, or any such nonsense that you suggest. I merely presented a position, counter to your view, that the activity itself does not predict the crimes you alluded to, but only contributes to it given the social context in which they both occur - that is, in the context of generally illegal activity. I then gave you examples which substantiate this point, and others which demonstrate that the activities themselves do not necessarily indicate peripheral crime.Seriously. I have a very serious question. Could you possibly think more of yourself? Evidently, you think you are THE ****. See, all you have done is sugar coat your post which is nothing more than attacking my credibility while trumping up what is nothing more than speculation on your part. You think legalization will bring down the use of drugs and its negative consequences. You could make an arguement organized crime would have less funding. Whatever we save would be directed towards other things like I have said before. Indirect consequences of it. You rephrase and argue many points only when they fit what you are arguing against. Its hilarious how despite how smart you think you are, you still argue like a typical internet cronie, just with an expanded vocabulary. You know what, legalize them. See what happens. See if this utopia you speak of comes about. Lets make our society one of vices. Drugs and prostitution seem to share similar venues but are not similar enough to draw conclusions like you have. Much like the rest of your argument, you declare your speculation as fact while mine is mush. A society of vices can never fail.
No, The "Personal insult" thing is not a cop out. It is actually about keeping this site to adult discussion. If you want we could see what David Dunn's or Wyatt Earp's feelings on usage of "****ing idiots" in the political discussions, when no incitement of such an argument was proposed. In fact, me and David Dunn have seen each other as polar opposites at times in a political sense, yet neither of us have ever even considered crossing the line in term of personal attacks, because we happen to try and be respectful members of the community, and their are numerous members on this site that would back that up.Cry about it. Really. The whole "dont resort to insults" thing is just a cop out. Thanks for playing.
WOOOOOOOSSSSHHH! Someone missed the sarcasm.Its hilarious how you complain about being lied to and yet, fully embrace the other side of the issue without considering that..maybe...just maybe...they may be telling some lies themselves. Anyways.
Unfortunately, I won't lower myself in this argument to "I heard" or "I was told" or "word on the street," but rather will posts actual sources.Find out how much prices would drop if legalized. In fact, whatever taxes would be put on it and regulation would raise the price is what I hear. I was talking the entire time about drugs on the whole, but great job isolating the argument purely on marijuana to give yourself a rallying cry.
Pot prices could drop from $375 an ounce under the state's current medical marijuana law to as little as $38 per ounce before taxes as legal pot suddenly becomes available to the public, RAND researhers concluded. [CBS NEWS - referring to a RAND study]
Again, thanks for trying.The RAND Corp. study estimated that marijuana prices could fall as much as 80 percent if the drug is legalized as proposed in a pending ballot initiative that Californians will vote on this fall. That translates into as little as $1.50 per joint
Has Alcohol led children to Heroin? Has cigarettes led children to crack cocaine? First off, a dealer will sell to anybody who has cash in hand. Having Marijuana legalized, means it will be age controlled, and harder to get for children. But hey, its not my style to make a claim without backing it up:Exposure to drugs at a young age will inevitably lead a few to try others.
n fact, seven times as many teens (35%) listed the prohibited marijuana as easiest to obtain as listed beer (5%), which of course is legal and regulated. [CASA (National Center on Addition and Substance Abuse) Study]
I LOATHE this argument. Habit forming and addictive are two different things. If we banned everything can can be this form of addictive, then we should ban soda, junk food, gambling, Video Games (Think World of Warcraft), Internet (I myself probably have this addiction), shopping, working (work addictions do exist), hell even weight lifting can be habit forming addictive for people. Anything you do everyday, rinse and repeat, will become a part of your lifestyle. Marijuana is no different then any thing else I have listed.Its not the substance itself as much as the lifestyle. This is not a hard reach. Marijuana may not by physically addictive (according to modern research) but the act and lifestyle can be. In the same way they say quitting cigs is almost 50% just holding the cigarette between your fingers and taking breaks since its an embedded part of your lifestyle.
Nothing can be said for sure, however, there is no doubt that the legalization of marijuana would benefit the state, in at least some way. We will look at the proposals from California. First off, lets see how much California is currently spending on enforcement:Here anuder dink for you. Go ahead and see what legalization would do to California's budget problems. I think it was estimated that the budget shortfall for the year would have been gapped...a stunning 1/26th from the stuff I saw. So without a huge amount of taxation to make it practically unaffordable, it really wouldnt help pay for jack ****.
So by no longer needing to wrongfully arrest, prosecute, and jail someone for marijuana, the state is saving over 200 million. Nice. Now we are taxing the pot, and collecting money for the state on every ounce/joint sold.COST OF MARIJUANA ENFORCEMENT IN CALIFORNIA IS OVER $200 MILLION PER YEAR
The cost of marijuana enforcement in California currently can be estimated at over $200 million per year, as follows.
State prison
(1500 prisoners @ $49 K per year - 2009 est.) $73.5 million
Jail costs (est. 40% of prison population) $29.4 million
Felony prosecution, court & probation
(est. 8500 felony prosecutions (2008), SF DA's office est. $9250 per case) $78.6 million
Felony arrests 17,000 arrests (2008) @ $732/arrest* $12.4 million
Misdemeanor court costs: $100 court time/case, 61,000 cases) $6.1 million
Misdemeanor arrests ($300/arrest,* offset by fines) ----- $0
California Marijuana Suppression Program (OCJP) $3.8 million
TOTAL: $203.8 million
[CA-NORML]
California NORML's analysis of the benefits of marijuana legalization are as follows:
* An excise tax of $50 per ounce of marijuana would raise about $770 - 900 million per year.
* Retail sales on the legal market would range from $3 - $4.5 billion, generating
another $240 - 360 million in sales taxes.
* Legalization would save over $200 million in law enforcement costs for arrest, prosecution, trial and imprisonment of marijuana offenders. Need for CAMP helicopter surveillance would also be eliminated.
* Based on experience with the cigarette tax, total revenues of $1.5 - $2.5 billion might ultiimately be realized.
* Based on experience with the wine industry, the total economic activity generated by legal marijuana could be nearly four times as great as retail sales, around $12 - $18 billion. Amsterdam-style coffeehouses would generate jobs and tourism. If the marijuana industry were just one-third the size of the wine industry, it would generate 50,000 jobs and $1.4 billion in wages, along with additional income and business tax revenues for the state.
* Industrial hemp could also become a major business, comparable to the $3.4 billion cotton industry in California. [Same Source]
Oh please to the medicinal benefits. This is the wiki that discusses outcomes of recent studies. No one claims it to be a "cure all," but the extent of which can benefit from a flower is insane. If a supplement company were to discover a herb that had as many effects on the bodybuilding world, you would be singing its praises.You need to get over the fact that marijuana is not a cure all miracle drug. The whole "oh youre big government because you want to regulate drugs" **** doesnt fly. Mind altering substances, something that will impair your judgment and can be addictive, does not fit into the unlimited personal freedom column. You use tunnel vision to make the issue black and white for you. No risk to ones self.
Please don't attack someone for coming off as intelligent. Its a welcoming change in the realm of e-arguments.(What you said to Mullet)
Are you kidding me? Cigarettes are about personal freedom, which leads to a strong addiction and cancer, but a drug that does not cause any harm is not considered part of personal freedom? Very hypocritical stance.BRO, PERSONAL FREEDOM BRO.
Kudos. Too bad it won't be appreciated by the dissenting parties.(Sorry to those following this discussion for the length, I am just very passionately behind this issue.)
Thanks! Being called a ****ing moron by a bigoted,stupid son of a b**** like you is a compliment or as Aristophanes put it back in the day: `To be insulted by you is to be garlanded with lilies`Shut up luther, youre the biggest ****ing moron on here. Your hilarious fringe idiot propoganda threads are priceless. I hope israeli commandos blow down your door one day. I wont respond to anything you post after this.