Can we all agree that Big Pharmaceutical companies blow big D?

[HereToStudy]

 

[DAdams91982]

Holy Crap Propaganda. I went to that little OnlineSchool website and reading the hot topics; it literally is every last bullet point from Chris Matthews mouth.

 

[HereToStudy]

Holy Crap Propaganda. I went to that little OnlineSchool website and reading the hot topics; it literally is every last bullet point from Chris Matthews mouth.

So you are saying that something on the infographic is invalid? If so what?

 

[DAdams91982]

I cant read the sources on that one.. but seriously... their gun control graph used this as a source.

http://hematite.com/dragon/antigunstat.html

Come on... every last one of their little graphs are straight liberal talking points. The information they post is twisted. Why didnt they use the 99.99% safety rate listed in that link for their gun control graph?

 

[DAdams91982]

That is a straight emotional piece about big pharm, agenda driven.

 

[HereToStudy]

That is a straight emotional piece about big pharm, agenda driven.

Completly agenda driven, no argument. But I loathe big pharma, maybe the infographic was not the best, but i used it more in terms of a statement then concrete reasoning.

 

[DAdams91982]

Completly agenda driven, no argument. But I loathe big pharma, maybe the infographic was not the best, but i used it more in terms of a statement then concrete reasoning.

It has been years since I have researched big pharma, but when I did, I had no problems with them. They drive the research for drugs that do save lives and take on the burden of both research and legal woes. Litigation also costs an arm and a leg if a problem on the smaller research scale did not arise. It also costs quite a bit in litigation to protect their patented rights. Lastly they are a private organization and have the right to produce and sell at whatever price point they wish, especially if generic drug companies undercut their bottom line.

I would do some research to provide some concrete evidence, but I am lacking the will! Also if I type Big Pharma in Google, all I get is agenda driven sites. I will leave the real debate to you all! The stated is really all I can provide to the discussion! :lol:

 

[Zero V]

I highly doubt Big Pharma cares. You know what, maybe the scientists do, maybe alot of employees do, maybe some of the top genetic/chemical scientists do...but the people in control dont. Its all about $$$. I am a firm believer that many potential cures have been "suppressed" do to entire companies losing out on an entire line of profit.

Its like that redneck fella down in Georgia who invented an add on that works for almost any engine(forgot what it was) and posted it on the internet. It allowed his pickup to get about 60-80 MPG. It keeps vanishing, servers drop him, or it is straight deleted. He admits he has also been threatened and cited. I will have to get the info on him again, and his video(since nothing once it hits the net is ever erasable). I have seen him, and the invention, and the science was sound.

I tell you I would not put it past Big Pharma, or the auto industry, or banking industry, or oil industry to slit a mans throat to protect profits...literally slit it that is, and I am sure they have.

 

[HereToStudy]

I highly doubt Big Pharma cares. You know what, maybe the scientists do, maybe alot of employees do, maybe some of the top genetic/chemical scientists do...but the people in control dont. Its all about $$$

Which summarizes my problem. I understand they do the work they deserve the money, but the money is HUGE.

I also hate ****ing pharma's advertisements! Mindwarping people into conditions they dont have.

 

[Resolve]

Big Pharma is going downhill fast for the exact reason that Zero pointed out - they're run like a business rather than as a research facility. I know a couple of Prof's who left pharma because of that very issue.

One guy found a very important drug interaction with St. John's Wort (it upregulates Cyp3A if I recall correctly), wanted to publish his findings and had his whole board come after him because the company would have to change the labels of their drugs to include his discovery if he did publish. Very unethical.

 

[HereToStudy]

Big Pharma is going downhill fast for the exact reason that Zero pointed out - they're run like a business rather than as a research facility. I know a couple of Prof's who left pharma because of that very issue.

One guy found a very important drug interaction with St. John's Wort (it upregulates Cyp3A if I recall correctly), wanted to publish his findings and had his whole board come after him because the company would have to change the labels of their drugs to include his discovery if he did publish. Very unethical.

Ding Ding Motherf---ing ding. These people can care less what they do to your body as long as you are paying for it.

 

[Nitrox]

Big Pharma is going downhill fast for the exact reason that Zero pointed out - they're run like a business rather than as a research facility.

Downhill how? Financially? Not likely. Ethically? arguably yes.

That said it is totally unfair to exclusively pick on Big Pharma. You can talk about any large corporation and the parallels will be the same. They are all 100% profit driven and are only held in check by regulation. Consequently which is why they allocate large sums for lobbying to get regulations changed in their favor.

Additionally it seems that this psychopathic and narcissistic corporate behavior rubs off on long term employees who then conduct themselves the same way.

A good read on the subject is Joel Bakan's 'The Corporation.' There is also a documentary by the same name that is a reasonable substitute.

 

[Zero V]

Downhill how? Financially? Not likely. Ethically? arguably yes.

That said it is totally unfair to exclusively pick on Big Pharma. You can talk about any large corporation and the parallels will be the same. They are all 100% profit driven and are only held in check by regulation. Consequently which is why they allocate large sums for lobbying to get regulations changed in their favor.

Additionally it seems that this psychopathic and narcissistic corporate behavior rubs off on long term employees who then conduct themselves the same way.

A good read on the subject is Joel Bakan's 'The Corporation.' There is also a documentary by the same name that is a reasonable substitute.

THis is why I have issues with capitalism and "corporate america", of course the only way to fix that issue now is through a political war based revolution, world war III, or the Rapture....

Modifications of other systems for certain parts of our society have benefits that far outweigh the negatives and risks considering that our "democracy" which we are supposed to be a republic anyways is already proven to be a "failure" and is now coming up on its end. What will the next form be, how will it be structured? Unsure, but if capitalism needs fixed. It started as a decent system, but capitalism + technology +easy contact/transport worldwide does not equal a good thing... it allows megacorps to destroy anything else, and once they have a monopoly, they can toy and play around with the populace as they please.

Its a race to see which comes first:bigok:

 

[schwellington]

I highly doubt Big Pharma cares. You know what, maybe the scientists do, maybe alot of employees do, maybe some of the top genetic/chemical scientists do...but the people in control dont. Its all about $$$. I am a firm believer that many potential cures have been "suppressed" do to entire companies losing out on an entire line of profit.

Its like that redneck fella down in Georgia who invented an add on that works for almost any engine(forgot what it was) and posted it on the internet. It allowed his pickup to get about 60-80 MPG. It keeps vanishing, servers drop him, or it is straight deleted. He admits he has also been threatened and cited. I will have to get the info on him again, and his video(since nothing once it hits the net is ever erasable). I have seen him, and the invention, and the science was sound.

I tell you I would not put it past Big Pharma, or the auto industry, or banking industry, or oil industry to slit a mans throat to protect profits...literally slit it that is, and I am sure they have.

Many people believe we have cures for things such as cancer and aids......its just there is no money in a cure....its a one time fee....whereas treatment- neverending

 

[Nitrox]

THis is why I have issues with capitalism and "corporate america", of course the only way to fix that issue now is through a political war based revolution, world war III, or the Rapture....

Modifications of other systems for certain parts of our society have benefits that far outweigh the negatives and risks considering that our "democracy" which we are supposed to be a republic anyways is already proven to be a "failure" and is now coming up on its end. What will the next form be, how will it be structured? Unsure, but if capitalism needs fixed. It started as a decent system, but capitalism + technology +easy contact/transport worldwide does not equal a good thing... it allows megacorps to destroy anything else, and once they have a monopoly, they can toy and play around with the populace as they please.

Its a race to see which comes first:bigok:

Some very complicated questions my friend.

I think the first step is awareness and education. Most people are sheep and are totally fixated on the numbers on their paychecks and what they can get with it. Corporations exploit this (e.g. the huge ad expenditures by Big Pharma) to increase profits. Unfortunately this behavior is ingrained into the American way of life - which many other societies now want to emulate.

Potential solutions are obvious but implementing them are nearly impossible. More progressive taxation on the wealthy and corporations could limit corporate size. However, despite having some of the lowest tax rates on a global scale, the wealthy class would fight tooth and nail to avoid paying more. Alternatively, a campaign to denounce the current culture of consumption would probably be met with corporate lawsuits (or those slit throats already mentioned).

So yeah, won't be a surprise for things to have to hit rock bottom before changes are made.

 

[HereToStudy]

Many people believe we have cures for things such as cancer and aids......its just there is no money in a cure....its a one time fee....whereas treatment- neverending

I believe this to an extent. I don't believe they can cure all cancers, etc..But I am sure there are illnesses that they could cure for $500, or put you on maintenance medication for $125/month for the rest of your life. What looks better to the companies bottom line?

 

[sluggy]

Absolutely, big pharma blows bigtime.

Ripping people off for drugs that do nothing but cover up the symptoms. No such thing as health in their minds, only disease management.

 

[Vtaper]

Potential solutions are obvious but implementing them are nearly impossible. More progressive taxation on the wealthy and corporations could limit corporate size.

Its already the 2nd highest rate in the developed world and it doesnt seem to be working. http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/2009/01/29/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-oecd/

More taxes= more clever ways of hiding assets and income.

'limiting corporate size' means ALL corporations; maybe even some you like, or your friends and family work for and are relying on for a retirement. How can you 'limit corporate size' without firing people?(yeah, I know. Have the Government force execs to take pay cuts. I dont like "greedy" ceo's anymore than the next guy, but I dont want the state that powerfull)

I personaly like Organic Valley and Whole Foods; they're corporations. Now I wouldnt mind seeing some of the pharma and oil companies be restricted on lobbying/advertising(drugs), and be accountable for price gauging or monopolization. But once we start painting with such a broad brush, I believe the amount of decent corps. ultimatly hurt would outweigh the benefits of punishing a handfull of unpopular ones.

 

[Nitrox]

Its already the 2nd highest rate in the developed world and it doesnt seem to be working. http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/2009/01/29/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-oecd/

By progressive I meant as corporate profits increase so should the tax rate. Regardless, it is not really feasible for the same reason that the US corporate tax rate isn't really relevant. Large corps nowadays are usually multinational - which means they are, depending on how they structure cash flows, able to minimize tax payments.

More taxes= more clever ways of hiding assets and income.

Possibly but if you follow this argument to its beginning should we conclude that it is pointless to collect any taxes? Obviously no; there should be some optimum.

'limiting corporate size' means ALL corporations; maybe even some you like, or your friends and family work for and are relying on for a retirement. How can you 'limit corporate size' without firing people?(yeah, I know. Have the Government force execs to take pay cuts. I dont like "greedy" ceo's anymore than the next guy, but I dont want the state that powerfull)

I personaly like Organic Valley and Whole Foods; they're corporations. Now I wouldnt mind seeing some of the pharma and oil companies be restricted on lobbying/advertising(drugs), and be accountable for price gauging or monopolization. But once we start painting with such a broad brush, I believe the amount of decent corps. ultimatly hurt would outweigh the benefits of punishing a handfull of unpopular ones.

Limiting corporate 'size' would not mean firing people. It would just have to be split into different independent companies. As for executive compensation, no the government cannot force them to take pay cuts. However, progressive taxation at higher income levels would apply more downward pressure.

Again, it is a very complicated problem and I was just throwing out some quick and dirty thoughts on the subject. IMO the system has become unbalanced - wealthy individuals and large corporations seem to have acquired a disproportionately large ability to affect the lives of the average citizen (finance companies causing the global credit crisis, BP spilling oil into the gulf, etc.).

 

[DAdams91982]

Our corporate tax rate is the reason that US based companies are now employing people in india, or moving out of the US all together. Punish the big guy and they will pick up and leave, why stay somewhere that they are punished so heavily?


I will love to see how everyone responds when the Government start regulating big pharma even more than they already do, and we all get to see the prices raise even more, and no more R&D take place. Which how things are going these days, the Gov will reach that and more.

Everyone sounds so conspiracy fatalist... brainwashed into hating any concept of big corp.

 

[Nitrox]

Everyone sounds so conspiracy fatalist... brainwashed into hating any concept of big corp.

Not any more so than those who are chronically anti-government. :rasp:

 

[HereToStudy]

Not any more so than those who are chronically anti-government. :rasp:

:clap2:

 

[DAdams91982]

Not any more so than those who are chronically anti-government. :rasp:

A Touche'. If only I was anti gov though..... anti Big Gov there my man... Bigdifference.

Now lemme go watch my Government access channel to make sure I get the truth!

 

[DAdams91982]

:clap2:

ohhhhhhhhhhhh... I see what you did there... clever.

 

[jakekunedo]

i think we can all agree that the pharma companies are trying to make a profit every way they can but, if there is no profit than there is no reason for the medicine they make. if they dont get the profit than we all dont get to benifit of the next cure or medicine than makes our quality of life better and longer. its a crap shoot but if we keep the free market "free" than the rip off wont be as bad

 

[wontstop985]

You don't pay for them to manufacture the drug.

You pay for them to develop the drug.

Estimates about the cost of developing a new drug vary widely, from a low of $800 million to nearly $2 billion per drug.

 

[DAdams91982]

You don't pay for them to manufacture the drug.

You pay for them to develop the drug.

Estimates about the cost of developing a new drug vary widely, from a low of $800 million to nearly $2 billion per drug.

Hence the FDA blockade is one of the predominant money pits.