Mavi Marama raid...the real IDF footage

[ryanp81]

Maybe it's an attempt from the beyond radical and newly developed Turkish government to exploit the state of Israel as well as convincing everyone what didn't actually happened or maybe it's Aljazeera as well as are muslim loving president Nobama which blatantly condemn the attack without getting much info on it....my conclusion it's to persuade as well as make all islamist groups regardless of fanitical intent or not to arouse more regional hate against Israel....Humanitarian aid my ass.

Of course this will probably never be aired or shown for the public to see.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo"]YouTube- Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=related"]YouTube- Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers[/nomedia] Note : I don't care if these aren't considered conventional weapons, they are deemed weapons of opportunity in my book.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9p5QT91QYs&feature=related"]YouTube- Israeli Navy Soldier Describes the Violent Mob Aboard Mavi Marmara[/nomedia]


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ#ixzz0peJthsmc

 

[Zero V]

Maybe it's an attempt from the beyond radical and newly developed Turkish government to exploit the state of Israel as well as convincing everyone what didn't actually happened or maybe it's Aljazeera as well as are muslim loving president Nobama which blatantly condemn the attack without getting much info on it....my conclusion it's to persuade as well as make all islamist groups regardless of fanitical intent or not to arouse more regional hate against Israel....Humanitarian aid my ass.

Of course this will probably never be aired or shown for the public to see.

YouTube- Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers


YouTube- Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers Note : I don't care if these aren't considered conventional weapons, they are deemed weapons of opportunity in my book.

YouTube- Israeli Navy Soldier Describes the Violent Mob Aboard Mavi Marmara


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ#ixzz0peJthsmc

Dark times are coming for Israel, this cannot be avoided. Its already been decided.

As for our useless dog that we call a president, he is nothing more than a fool.

 

[poison]

Zero V, what do you mean. I'm curious. Pm me if you like.

Yeah, this whole thing was one massive publicity stunt. They weren't humanitarians. israel didn't have a choice but to take the bait; the alternative was to allow the blockade to be passed, and open the floodgates of weapon supply to hamas in gaza. That's suicide, as one hizbullah on one border is enough.

The big question is Turkey: will they escort the next two ships set to leave in the next 48 hours? If they do, what will israel do? If there is a skirmish, turkey could involve nato. That's extreme, but so is turkey officially supporting a flotilla organized by an org with ties to al qaeda and hamas, and illegally attempting to run a legal blockade. It's absolutely mind blowing.

 

[youngandfree]

The "peace activists" have ties to the weather underground and William Ayers and that bunch of lefty wack jobs also.

 

[poison]

From mfa.gov.il:

1.*A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been* smuggled into Gaza via the sea

2.*Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

3.*A* blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so ong as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

4.*The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.

5. .*In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla.* Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect

6.*Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above

7.*Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in
7.*Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect no boats can enter the blockaded area.* That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

8.*A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law.*The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.* breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade

9.*Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and ora statements.*Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law

10.*Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were* relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade

11.*Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade

12.*Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protestors and acted in self-defense to ward off the attacks.

 

[Nitrox]

From mfa.gov.il:

1.*A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been* smuggled into Gaza via the sea
.
.
.
12.*Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protestors and acted in self-defense to ward off the attacks.

Completely agree but there is a much bigger picture to the situation.

 

[TxHomeGrown]

Maybe it's an attempt from the beyond radical and newly developed Turkish government to exploit the state of Israel as well as convincing everyone what didn't actually happened or maybe it's Aljazeera as well as are muslim loving president Nobama which blatantly condemn the attack without getting much info on it....my conclusion it's to persuade as well as make all islamist groups regardless of fanitical intent or not to arouse more regional hate against Israel....Humanitarian aid my ass.

Of course this will probably never be aired or shown for the public to see.

I'm going to guess you're a proud Tea Party member and also do not have a college degree? Am I right?

 

[Imeniaan]

syria, iran, hezbollah, are all less dangerous and less criminal than those bloodthirsty israeli fools. funny how people are linking those activists with organisations like hamas, while israel itself is a pure terrorist entity. state terrorism of the highest order. the tenach clearly states that israel will destroy itself, it's only a matter of time, thank God.

 

[poison]

YouTube- Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

 

[Zero V]

I have no problem with Israel, they are smack center in the harshest part of the world....

When is the last time they sent a suicide bomber my way? Never have. Good enough for me.


You know half the reason we have terrorist attacks, is because of Americas history of being invaders, committing our own war crimes, and being a nation of pigs right?

Dont judge another nation while thinking ours is still great, Ours is now beginning to rip at the seams and will probably end up separated in our lifetime.

 

[TexasTitan]

syria, iran, hezbollah, are all less dangerous and less criminal than those bloodthirsty israeli fools. funny how people are linking those activists with organisations like hamas, while israel itself is a pure terrorist entity. state terrorism of the highest order. the tenach clearly states that israel will destroy itself, it's only a matter of time, thank God.

All the arab countries want Israel not to exist. Not really the peace lovers you describe.

I have no problem with Israel, they are smack center in the harshest part of the world....

When is the last time they sent a suicide bomber my way? Never have. Good enough for me.


You know half the reason we have terrorist attacks, is because of Americas history of being invaders, committing our own war crimes, and being a nation of pigs right?

Dont judge another nation while thinking ours is still great, Ours is now beginning to rip at the seams and will probably end up separated in our lifetime.

We can only hope.

 

[poison]

Holy ****! Who let this bag out of the casket?

Helen Thomas: Jews, go back to Poland Veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas makes shocking anti- Yitzhak Benhorin Published:* 06.05.10, 20:49 / Israel News WASHINGTON - Veteran White House Correspondent Helen Thomas has provoked a storm in the US after saying the Jews must"get the hell out of Palestine" and "go home" to Germany or Poland. Thomas, who will be celebrating her 90th birthday soon, made the remarks in a talk with Rabbi David Nesenoff on the margins of an Rabbi David Nesenoff on the margins of an event held by President Obama last

 

[TexasTitan]

You know what, I kinda want the US to abandon Israel just to watch the ****storm of Israel drop kicking everyones ass into the ground. 6 days war all over again.

 

[Imeniaan]

the idf is really not that great anymore. they were good in 1967 at their best in 1973, not so great during the occupation in lebanon and they really got their ass kicked big time in 2006 by hezbollah in southern lebanon.

 

[Zero V]

the idf is really not that great anymore. they were good in 1967 at their best in 1973, not so great during the occupation in lebanon and they really got their ass kicked big time in 2006 by hezbollah in southern lebanon.

Only because the media and red tape is restricting them...if lets say, the right events happen...then they could take the leash off, say F*** the humanitarian crap, and level entire cities as is needed to be done to win wars...

I dont believe war should be waged the way it is today, with politics and red tape and "laws"....its a war. Destroy your enemy, should they surrender show them mercy. Should they fight, then yes innocents will perish because of their actions but if your going to have war have it the right way.

 

[AE14]

I woud agree about the IDF, should there be no restrictions, then there would be no one else left in the Middle East. You cant f with the IDF

 

[ryanp81]

the idf is really not that great anymore. they were good in 1967 at their best in 1973, not so great during the occupation in lebanon and they really got their ass kicked big time in 2006 by hezbollah in southern lebanon.

Where's the validity in this, have you ever served in the IDF or at all trained with them ?

"They were good in 1967 and there best in 1973"....so was that when they made the playoffs.

 

[shields144]

I dont belive israel will ever be distroyed, you will see countries rise up against them and israel will wipe them off the map

 

[EasyEJL]

What i wondered is why they don't just sink whatever tries to cross the blockade without attempting to board.

 

[Nitrox]

What i wondered is why they don't just sink whatever tries to cross the blockade without attempting to board.

Cause then you guys will stop sending the yearly USD 8 billion for not playing along with the peace process.

 

[EasyEJL]

Cause then you guys will stop sending the yearly USD 8 billion for not playing along with the peace process.

Isn't the point of a blockade "you can't go past this line" ? So once they are told to turn around but refuse, i'm not sure why sinking them is a problem.

 

[Nitrox]

Isn't the point of a blockade "you can't go past this line" ? So once they are told to turn around but refuse, i'm not sure why sinking them is a problem.

'These are not the droids that you are looking for...' -Obi-Wan

There is a big chicken-and-egg problem between Israel and the Palestinians. Which leads to the question of whether the blockade is legitimate from an international perspective. Playing hardball would get too much international scrutiny.

 

[youngandfree]

I dont belive israel will ever be distroyed, you will see countries rise up against them and israel will wipe them off the map

Winner Winner Winner! According to a book I read.

 

[Zero V]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg&feature=player_embedded#!

muslims bring death and destruction, and are the enemy of every Jew out there, and Christian. We would embrace, or try and convert...they will cut your head off, and blow up your family.

I think America should assist Israel with military aid in the form of Nuclear bombs

 

[poison]

They have nukes already.

 

[Imeniaan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg&feature=player_embedded#!

muslims bring death and destruction, and are the enemy of every Jew out there, and Christian. We would embrace, or try and convert...they will cut your head off, and blow up your family.

I think America should assist Israel with military aid in the form of Nuclear bombs

fukin' moron

 

[votum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg&feature=player_embedded#!

muslims bring death and destruction, and are the enemy of every Jew out there, and Christian. We would embrace, or try and convert...they will cut your head off, and blow up your family.

I think America should assist Israel with military aid in the form of Nuclear bombs

I like you mate, but that was a pretty ignorant statement.

I work with the Iraqi government, there is an Iraqi 1 star and a bunch of colonels who share an office with me over here, and they are some damn sharp people.

Muslims are not the problem at all. We're out of the dark ages and the crusades are over, they aren't the enemy.

Radical extremists are the problem, and wiping them out is a lot more complicated than you think. In fact killing them doesn't even work. Look up asymmetrical warfare. That's the fight we are fighting now. While it would be much simpler to just drop a nuke, we would be killing probably 98% civilians, 2% terrorists, MAYBE.

 

[EasyEJL]

While it would be much simpler to just drop a nuke, we would be killing probably 98% civilians, 2% terrorists, MAYBE.

Whats funny is pretty well their overall kills are about the same ratio, 98% civilian, 2% military

 

[votum]

Whats funny is pretty well their overall kills are about the same ratio, 98% civilian, 2% military

Do you know why?

Terrorism doesn't work against the US Army. It took them 7 or so years to figure that out. You know what happens when a convoy is rolling through town and someone shoots at them? A couple things. 1. the 50 cal or 240 gunner on top of every vehicle immediately identifies the target. If the target is identified, hellfire ensues. If the target is not identified, they will either continue mission, or if the mission allows, they will go and hunt the guy who shot them down.

Terrorism only works when people are afraid of you.

Also, Al Qaeda's goal is to overthrow the Iraqi government. They figured out that as long as we are around that will be impossible. So they stopped attacking us, figuring if we weren't getting attacked then we would leave.

The real funny thing is they are bound to fail no matter what. If they kill US Soldiers, the US will stick around forever and ****ing hunt them all down. If they kill civilians, sure, they may influence a few things, scare people here or there, but eventually the civilians will get sick of it.

Personally I think the Sunni-Shi'a relations are more of a problem than the terrorists in Iraq, the Iraqi forces are actually getting there **** in gear these days.

I dunno. Just my two semi-educated cents. Also keep in mind this is Iraq only, Afghanistan is a whole different monster.

 

[Zero V]

Do you know why?

Terrorism doesn't work against the US Army. It took them 7 or so years to figure that out. You know what happens when a convoy is rolling through town and someone shoots at them? A couple things. 1. the 50 cal or 240 gunner on top of every vehicle immediately identifies the target. If the target is identified, hellfire ensues. If the target is not identified, they will either continue mission, or if the mission allows, they will go and hunt the guy who shot them down.

Terrorism only works when people are afraid of you.

Also, Al Qaeda's goal is to overthrow the Iraqi government. They figured out that as long as we are around that will be impossible. So they stopped attacking us, figuring if we weren't getting attacked then we would leave.

The real funny thing is they are bound to fail no matter what. If they kill US Soldiers, the US will stick around forever and ****ing hunt them all down. If they kill civilians, sure, they may influence a few things, scare people here or there, but eventually the civilians will get sick of it.

Personally I think the Sunni-Shi'a relations are more of a problem than the terrorists in Iraq, the Iraqi forces are actually getting there **** in gear these days.

I dunno. Just my two semi-educated cents. Also keep in mind this is Iraq only, Afghanistan is a whole different monster.

No...Terrorism is a label, its guerrilla warfare and it is done ineffectively by them.

The American Revolutionists who fought off Britain were Terrorists as well...

Our soldiers are lucky they are not dealing with the most intelligent of enemies...a decent group of five men could bring hell on one of our convoys over there. Lucky for us, they just send out cowards to make pot shots or leave IED's and the likes around.

America would not stand so well against real enemies...

NOW onto muslims...

EVERY girl I know who dates a muslim ends up with black eyes.

Every muslim I know is a useless liar, dirtbag, and they generally dont keep jobs well...

This is out of maybe 75 mulsims(yes that many at least, I would say over 100) that I have known well enough. Out of those 75, about 5 were good men/women.

The rest? Useless.

I am sure there are some good muslims...but generally, anyone I talk to who knows them hates them. I cant stand them, and girls I know who made the mistake of dating one lose all respect for their culture.

They bring no flavor whatsover to any place they go.

Now is this a generality? Borderline racism? I dont think so, its friggin statistics. You dont have to be a "radical murderous terrorist muslim" to be a piece of trash. You just gotta be a piece of trash...

All I care about is that a man represents himself properly and in good manner. Sadly every one who represents islam, is usually a person that I find less than admirable, or even decent, or hell event want to be around. How the hell do you come to America, be here 5 years, and still smell like camel Sh!t? Take a shower...

That and I do see their culture as an issue. Even the non-extremists are dumb enough to follow the extremists to please allah baba shaboobi, and get their 72 virgin camels.

AM I not accepting of their culture? HELL no, it is being TOO accepting that is partially why America is so screwed up now. Plus, you probably dont know the religious side of it, and what their idiotic leaders here say. The whole purpose they spam out hell spawn kids is because their religious leaders demand it, in order to take over this nation by reproduction...and that came straight from the horses mouth...

I will gladly be "wrong" and be accused of sterotyping. You know what, I stereotype wtf a woof looks like in a group of dogs so I dont get my throat ripped out...

 

[votum]

No...Terrorism is a label, its guerrilla warfare and it is done ineffectively by them.

The American Revolutionists who fought off Britain were Terrorists as well...

Our soldiers are lucky they are not dealing with the most intelligent of enemies...a decent group of five men could bring hell on one of our convoys over there. Lucky for us, they just send out cowards to make pot shots or leave IED's and the likes around.

America would not stand so well against real enemies...

NOW onto muslims...

EVERY girl I know who dates a muslim ends up with black eyes.

Every muslim I know is a useless liar, dirtbag, and they generally dont keep jobs well...

This is out of maybe 75 mulsims(yes that many at least, I would say over 100) that I have known well enough. Out of those 75, about 5 were good men/women.

The rest? Useless.

I am sure there are some good muslims...but generally, anyone I talk to who knows them hates them. I cant stand them, and girls I know who made the mistake of dating one lose all respect for their culture.

They bring no flavor whatsover to any place they go.

Now is this a generality? Borderline racism? I dont think so, its friggin statistics. You dont have to be a "radical murderous terrorist muslim" to be a piece of trash. You just gotta be a piece of trash...

All I care about is that a man represents himself properly and in good manner. Sadly every one who represents islam, is usually a person that I find less than admirable, or even decent, or hell event want to be around. How the hell do you come to America, be here 5 years, and still smell like camel Sh!t? Take a shower...

That and I do see their culture as an issue. Even the non-extremists are dumb enough to follow the extremists to please allah baba shaboobi, and get their 72 virgin camels.

AM I not accepting of their culture? HELL no, it is being TOO accepting that is partially why America is so screwed up now. Plus, you probably dont know the religious side of it, and what their idiotic leaders here say. The whole purpose they spam out hell spawn kids is because their religious leaders demand it, in order to take over this nation by reproduction...and that came straight from the horses mouth...

I will gladly be "wrong" and be accused of sterotyping. You know what, I stereotype wtf a woof looks like in a group of dogs so I dont get my throat ripped out...

This is a joke right?

Terrorism is a tactic my friend. Guerilla warfare is a tactic as well, and entirely different. Here, look at this site, which is the first one on google:
http://www.ornery.org/essays/2004-03-10-1.html

American revolutionists were not terrorists. They were freedom fighters, or Guerillas, fighting a military force much larger and better than their own. Terorists target civilians for political/religious/psychological agendas.

This is coming from someone who has experience with such things...myself.

You have no idea how intelligent our enemies truly are. I'm not at liberty to talk about why, but lets just say they are about 10,000 times smarter than you think. They have outlasted 150,000 soldiers for 8 years now.

America has the best armed and trained fighting force in the world...no other country in the world could maintain forces in over 80 countries...America will stand against EVERY enemy, and if you don't think so...I don't have much respect for you. I am one of the most patriotic people you will ever know, and I don't take kindly to people making even slight references against our troops.

On to muslims...I'm in Iraq mate. I think that qualifies me slightly more to comment on the character of muslims. I've met and worked with many more than 75, and I am in their country.

20-30% of the WORLD is muslim. You are going to pass judgement on 2 billion people based off of your opinion of 75? I'm glad I don't go to your church....

It's also one of the oldest and largest cultures in the world. 1000 years ago the Muslims were so much more advanced than the rest of the world it was a joke.

I bet you I know a lot more about the religious side of it than you, being a cultural expert is part of my job, extensive studies are included in that, above and beyond the basic courses in islam and culture EVERY SINGLE U.S. SOLDIER IS REQUIRED TO ATTEND.

I've known WAY more than 75 Americans who were total **** bags, do you think I hate Americans?

This is the most ignorant post I have ever seen in my life....even the non extremists are dumb enough to follow? Why the **** do you think we have been in Iraq and Afghanistan for 8 years now? If they were all ****bags we would have finished up 10 days after we got here. less than 1% of the population here are terrorists. They are normal people man.

Who exactly is the horse you speak of? The Grand Ayatollah? Random Imams? Muhammed? Do you even know anything about Islam?

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense at all...you aren't stereotyping, you are condeming an entire religion based on a few bad experiences you have, which I would bet money were bad because you are a radical yourself. I have never met a men who touts his religion around so much as you and was so demeaning and ignorant of other people.

:damnit::damnit::usa::gives::damnit::usa:

 

[EasyEJL]

Every muslim I know is a useless liar, dirtbag, and they generally dont keep jobs well...

This is out of maybe 75 mulsims(yes that many at least, I would say over 100) that I have known well enough. Out of those 75, about 5 were good men/women.

The rest? Useless.

The same could easily be said for Christians. Look at our jails and how many self professed christians are there, or how many commit christians adultery, rape, etc.

 

[Zero V]

The same could easily be said for Christians. Look at our jails and how many self professed christians are there, or how many commit christians adultery, rape, etc.

if we were to take numbers on how many christian men beat their wives, and how many muslim men do....I am quite positive there would be a very very large gap in there.

Every religion will have the rapists, weirdos, freaks, label bearers,etc.

But not every religion accepts such things as beating your wife cuz your sammich was made wrong, and say its ok -.-

I dont count most christians as christians anyways, I was actually shocked to find out a few things about some christian leaders in my church, and another church, and their current youth leaders. Just made me go WTF is wrong with you people?

Money plays too big of a damn role anymore...

and as for passing judgement on 2 billion...well maybe they should ship some of their better ones here for me to meet and learn from. A man can only go by what he sees in person. To me, its not what you see, its what I see. To you, its not what I see, its what you see.

Thats like referring to prison...what % is black?

You want your people to have a certain image, represent it...White people get the redneck bit, black people get the jail bit, french get the "pussies" bit, muslims get the...hell muslim bit. I make jokes about strapping C4 to a pigeon and sending them off to blow someone up, but they would actually friggin do it.

As for them being smarter...dude, we are still discovering new fish in rivers we have been searching for the last 200 years...

In a country full of mountains and terrain, and where everyone wears layers of covering clothing, its not hard to vanish and hide.

As for their country, why cant their people fight their people? if only 1% are the bad guys, then you telling me that 99% of muslims are incompetent pussies who cant stand up for themselves?

And on the plain and simple viewpoint, I see muslims as misguided. Their entire heaven is based off of the Cardinal sin of "lust"....thats enough for me to disqualify a religion of having any merit.

72 virgins? wtf how many insecure men really have to turn to a religion for contentment. Honestly, you think that a grand creator of the heavens and the earth would place the reward for being a good man, to be to "wordly" take 72 virgins just made for that man?

Budhism is about spiritual peace and tranquility, christianity is about faith and healing and peace, catholicism is pretty much the same...but weird, many of them focus on being "non-wordly"....that when we die, we transcend...not degrade into horny bastards for all of eternity...and to subjugate 72 other souls to be under then for eternity, instead of an equality for eternity...

So up front, I am biased. And aside from my friend Maleke, who sadly returned to Africa because of the death of his brother(if thats even the truth, muslims here use lies such as trips like that to go to another job and "test" it out and then come back if its not better..common practice here) I have seen no good.

hell every Haji shop I have went to have been dealing drugs out the back door as well...

Honestly, they simply have had bad representation here then. Not saying good ones dont exist, but I am saying they cant be #rd in the higher end of the %s at this rate.

The only reason they have eluded us is political "red tape". And like I said, I am very biased. But not just because of my religion, but because in comparison to any religion...they are tweaked the wrong way...Plus they have a weird feeling around them, I would never trust one.

 

[votum]

^ Biased and very misinformed my friend. I think you should do some research on your own instead of judging people so.

There is not one bit of fact in your statements. What % of prisons are black? I guarantee you a higher % are white.

Yeah, I am sure there would be a gap in how many christians beat their wives vs muslims, because islam is the largest religion in the world. If you took the % however I would bet money they would be a lot closer than you think.

I have yet to see a Jerry Springer type show in a muslim country.

Oh, and a muslim I work with just warned me about a snake that is out near where our car is parked. He doesn't even speak English.

The 72 virgin thing is just a stupid oral tradition that has been passed down. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the Q'uran, in fact the holy book of Islam actually says you will be with your wife in heaven. The 72 virgin thing was an interpretation, and it is akin to the christian wings and harp. ie, most people know its just a stupid story someone made up. Just by you thinking their "entire religion" is based on lust makes you look like a fool, and the fact that every fact I state in my remarks to you I verified before typing. Seriously...think before you talk?

Your views are misguided my friend. You call yourself christian, but I do not see any christian values in you at all. In fact it bothers me very much that you tout around the fact that you don't have sex, you post it anywhere it will make sense, yet you are clearly racist, have a low tolerance for other religions, and don't bother to know about things you talk about.

As far as muslims being stupid: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/29/muslim.inventions/index.html
STFU.

 

[Zero V]

^ Biased and very misinformed my friend. I think you should do some research on your own instead of judging people so.

There is not one bit of fact in your statements. What % of prisons are black? I guarantee you a higher % are white.

Yeah, I am sure there would be a gap in how many christians beat their wives vs muslims, because islam is the largest religion in the world. If you took the % however I would bet money they would be a lot closer than you think.

I have yet to see a Jerry Springer type show in a muslim country.

Oh, and a muslim I work with just warned me about a snake that is out near where our car is parked. He doesn't even speak English.

The 72 virgin thing is just a stupid oral tradition that has been passed down. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the Q'uran, in fact the holy book of Islam actually says you will be with your wife in heaven. The 72 virgin thing was an interpretation, and it is akin to the christian wings and harp. ie, most people know its just a stupid story someone made up. Just by you thinking their "entire religion" is based on lust makes you look like a fool, and the fact that every fact I state in my remarks to you I verified before typing. Seriously...think before you talk?

Your views are misguided my friend. You call yourself christian, but I do not see any christian values in you at all. In fact it bothers me very much that you tout around the fact that you don't have sex, you post it anywhere it will make sense, yet you are clearly racist, have a low tolerance for other religions, and don't bother to know about things you talk about.

As far as muslims being stupid: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/29/muslim.inventions/index.html
STFU.

Yes because the my black friend duntae I spend 8 hours a day joking with would call me racist, or any of my other black friends. Most blacks I know say there are two kinds themselves.... I am not racist by any means, if you actually know me this you would understand.

I have a high tolerance of jewish, catholic,morman(sp?), hindu, buddhist, and so on and find them interesting in their own rights. Again, actually very tolerant to anyone who actually knows me. In fact a good friend is morman, and I know some really nice jewish people. I even treat Jehovas Witness peeps nicely lol.

But muslims...I have seen them bring nothing to America but issues, conflict, and many problems. Them and atheists are one of the leading groups causing issues for Christian foundations and rights here in the states. Many elementary schools now forbid bibles from being carried, crosses from being worn, and any shirt showing Jesus. Yet the little towel heads can wear their headwraps because its their cultural right? I have never seen one of them be a good worker here, then again every one I have seen is in one form or another mooching off the government.

You may be right about the 72 virgins bit. But no one actually expects wings and a harp, and there is no lust in that....72 virgins is a lust-lure for attracting new believers IMO.

And as for citing 10 things they invented, hell Nazi's had some technological advancement too! So lets say they are swell people, k?

And I havent seen any Christian extremists sawing off anyones heads lately. Or buddhist extremists....etc,etc,etc

Hopefully the Israel will soon reach its point where it can deal with them.

Which Muslim countries are current world powers capable of taking on anyone and everyone else? They were always smashed when they tried long ago, by the Catholic crusades.

And as for muslims being the most populace religion in the world, I believe it. It is near the end times, and it was stated the darkness and false prophets would spread and take over.

My friend, the reason America is falling to its doom is because it has been far far too tolerant...

Now dont get me wrong. If I see a muslim broke down, I would help them. If I see them not have anything for lunch, I will generally offer something of mine that is spare. Their culture, religion, is all false. But I still treat the individual with respect. I see no purpose for their false religion, save it is another challenge from satan. I would give one the shirt off my back, doesnt mean I like them any more. Its doing whats right even to that which you disagree with.

That being said, YOU CANNOT have someone be a christian, and say being muslim is ok....doesnt make sense. They cancel out as calling the other false, they dont accept christians not by a long shot, hell over there we can be killed. Yet for stating I find their false doctrines(which in order to be a Christian your very teaching is that the false doctrines of the world or just that, false) disgusting is my right to have as an opinion.

oh and about prison

Census 2000 shows that predominantly White Franklin County New York more than doubled its Black population since 1990. That would be news to both the residents of the county and the prisoners, neither of whom consider the prisoners to be residents of Franklin County. Ninety-one percent of Franklin County’s Black population is incarcerated in the county’s 5 state prisons.

http://www.prisonersofthecensus.org/toobig/race_ethnicity_age.html

and

In 2003 4,834 out of every 100,000 black males were sentenced to prison compared to 681 per every 100,000 white males and 1,778 per 100,000 Hispanic males

Read more: Race and Ethnicity - Incarceration And Minorities http://law.jrank.org/pages/12131/Race-Ethnicity-Incarceration-minorities.html#ixzz0qmWx2PIl

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2526/Characteristics-Inmates-RACE-ETHNICITY-AGE-GENDER.html

I am really not racist, there is a line between racism and statistics...

you know in lower crime areas, I am sure it evens out. But where the big money is at, its far from even...

I dont know where the hell your hometown is man, but I want to go there it must be a damn peachy place for you to only know of the happy tree muslims and to see no racial divide and its all equal...

I know your serving, and I respect that, but your also going to be getting the "pretty press" guys in your field, the ones who have the sole job of making their culture look friendly, nice,etc.

And finally, you get on me for being intolerant....you do realize that the Christian God will be sending all muslims to eternal damnation per the belief of anyone who is christian? That is the general understanding of the faith, that false doctrines that are a blasphemy against God will not be given entry into heaven? And yet you conflict with me for having issues with them? Like I said I would do what I could to help a man in need(unless he was a satanist maybe...or big pharma CEO, or BP executive, or obama) and would also risk my life if it was a child or younger person or someone who I knew was a good man or woman, even if they are of the faith. But I will never see it as any more than an affliction.

I understand where you are coming from, but you should understand where I am coming from as well. I see our entire life as a spiritual war with the single purpose that you do your best to save a few souls from hell before you die and go onto glory...thats it, muslims are seeking to take people to hell...so to me, they are just as deadly and of a risk(spiritually and eternally) as Nazis....take a minute out to understand the spiritual warfare aspect. And forgive me for my own tight views.They are dragging peoples souls into eternal damnation, kinda makes them not easy to be fond of as well...


Now as for the jerry springer aspect, AMERICA IS NO LONGER A CHRISTIAN NATION... that stopped when the damn liberals(i know not just them) really started turning it into a disgusting homo-filled wasteland of filth,porn, and special rights groups. Australia as far as I know is the only remaining nation that claims national Christian faith. If I am not mistaken.

As for America, I am beginning to believe it is the great whore lol.

I would prefer to drop the subject though.

 

[votum]

Yes because the my black friend duntae I spend 8 hours a day joking with would call me racist, or any of my other black friends. Most blacks I know say there are two kinds themselves.... I am not racist by any means, if you actually know me this you would understand.

FYI that is every racists response when someone calls them out. "Oh I have a black friend though"

I have a high tolerance of jewish, catholic,morman(sp?), hindu, buddhist, and so on and find them interesting in their own rights. Again, actually very tolerant to anyone who actually knows me. In fact a good friend is morman, and I know some really nice jewish people. I even treat Jehovas Witness peeps nicely lol.

How about wiccans, druids, satanists, baptists, lutherans, etc etc all the other religions

But muslims...I have seen them bring nothing to America but issues, conflict, and many problems. Them and atheists are one of the leading groups causing issues for Christian foundations and rights here in the states. Many elementary schools now forbid bibles from being carried, crosses from being worn, and any shirt showing Jesus. Yet the little towel heads can wear their headwraps because its their cultural right? I have never seen one of them be a good worker here, then again every one I have seen is in one form or another mooching off the government.

So you think Muslims are the reason you can't bring a bible to middle school? You do realize that bringing the bible to middle school is a freedom of religion thing protected by the constitution, and if the parents of kids going to these schools had any balls whatsoever, they would slap a lawsuit on the school, and win, because the verdict is always the same in those cases. Towel heads? That's just a ****ing hat dude. It keeps their head cool...its no different than a baseball cap...its not a ****ing pope hat and has nothing to due with religion. When it's worn to actually mean something it shows what tribe you are from.

You may be right about the 72 virgins bit. But no one actually expects wings and a harp, and there is no lust in that....72 virgins is a lust-lure for attracting new believers IMO.

No, I am right about it, because I actually research before I open my mouth. And I know no one expects wings and a harp, I was using it to show that the wings/harp for christians is the same deal as the 72 virgins for muslims, it doesn't exist. 72 virgins was brought about not too long ago when some Imam said that martyrs will get 72 virgins when they die. You know what a martyr is right? Someone who sacrifices themself for a cause? IE .000000001% of muslims? It's not a lust-lure, and you can think that if you want, but its ****ing stupid and ground in -102938% fact.

And as for citing 10 things they invented, hell Nazi's had some technological advancement too! So lets say they are swell people, k?

You said Muslims were stupid, so I proved you wrong.

And I havent seen any Christian extremists sawing off anyones heads lately. Or buddhist extremists....etc,etc,etc

When was the last time you saw a muslim saw off someone's head? You really need to move from wherever you live...

How about the KKK? Oh wait, those are good christians right?
How about the Crusades? Oh wait, that was in the past so it doesn't count.
How about The Lord's Resistance Army, who has been accused of many crimes against humanity? Oh right, it's not in America so it doesn't count.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
You know that the Nazi's were radical christians right? Oh right...past again.

Hopefully the Israel will soon reach its point where it can deal with them.

...

Which Muslim countries are current world powers capable of taking on anyone and everyone else? They were always smashed when they tried long ago, by the Catholic crusades.

Crusade 1: 1099 - Christians took Jerusalem, slaughtered jew and muslim civilians, destroyed churches/mosques - Christians were defeated at Tyre
Crusade 2: 1147 - Christians attempt to take damascus, failed
Crusade 3: 1187 - Saladin conquers Jerusalem, FYI he is muslim. Civilians are not harmed and churches remain standing
Crusade 4: 1202 - Christians sack constantinople, a christian city. This is the split between roman catholic and greek orthodox churches.
Crusade 5: 1217 - Christians attempt to take jerusalem through Egypt. They get defeated at Cairo, and a muslim counter-attack ends with the christians surrender.
Crusade 6: 1228 - Christians took control of Jerusalem through diplomacy
Crusade 7: 1248 - Christians storm Jerusalem. They are defeated by the muslims within 48 hours in gaza.
Crusade 8: 1270 - Nothing happened, Louis IX died 2 months into it.
Crusade 9: 1271 - Edward I led a failed expidition. Crusades are done.

I cliff-noted it for you since you are unable to do your own research. Out of all the crusades, most failed. Christians took Jerusalem once by force, and once by diplomacy. Muslims took everything back. Also notice how the christians started the crusades. Muslims did not invade anything, the pope in rome just decided that the world should be christian, and started the crusades. This is fact, but I am sure you will have some stupid ass retort.

And as for muslims being the most populace religion in the world, I believe it. It is near the end times, and it was stated the darkness and false prophets would spread and take over.

You don't have to believe it because it is fact dude. You don't even know your own Holy book dude. The rapture has one false prophet who will decieve the entire human race into getting the Mark of the Beast. That would be revelation chapter 13 by the way.

My friend, the reason America is falling to its doom is because it has been far far too tolerant...

Again, ...

Now dont get me wrong. If I see a muslim broke down, I would help them. If I see them not have anything for lunch, I will generally offer something of mine that is spare. Their culture, religion, is all false. But I still treat the individual with respect. I see no purpose for their false religion, save it is another challenge from satan. I would give one the shirt off my back, doesnt mean I like them any more. Its doing whats right even to that which you disagree with.

Their culture is false? What the **** are you even talking about? How is a culture false? Do you even know what culture means? Denouncing another person's faith is pretty christian though, so bravo huh? Tolerance and forgiveness are not things taught in the new testament right? You do know that Jesus was killed by Jews right? Yet you don't hate Jews?

That being said, YOU CANNOT have someone be a christian, and say being muslim is ok....doesnt make sense. They cancel out as calling the other false, they dont accept christians not by a long shot, hell over there we can be killed. Yet for stating I find their false doctrines(which in order to be a Christian your very teaching is that the false doctrines of the world or just that, false) disgusting is my right to have as an opinion.

Uh yeah you can...have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It's the religion that evolved into Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. You know that Jesus is a prophet in the Islamic Holy Book? You know that "Allah" is the translation of "God" in arabic? You know that both religions say there is one god? You know the muslims believe in the Gospels, Psalm, and the Torah? There are so many resemblances it is funny. You can have your opinion all you want, but I will continue to tell you it is based on total bull**** until you can provide me with some solid arguments instead of "well I think this because I hate ragheads"

oh and about prison

Census 2000 shows that predominantly White Franklin County New York more than doubled its Black population since 1990. That would be news to both the residents of the county and the prisoners, neither of whom consider the prisoners to be residents of Franklin County. Ninety-one percent of Franklin County’s Black population is incarcerated in the county’s 5 state prisons.

http://www.prisonersofthecensus.org/toobig/race_ethnicity_age.html

and

In 2003 4,834 out of every 100,000 black males were sentenced to prison compared to 681 per every 100,000 white males and 1,778 per 100,000 Hispanic males

Read more: Race and Ethnicity - Incarceration And Minorities http://law.jrank.org/pages/12131/Race-Ethnicity-Incarceration-minorities.html#ixzz0qmWx2PIl

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2526/Characteristics-Inmates-RACE-ETHNICITY-AGE-GENDER.html

I am really not racist, there is a line between racism and statistics...

I will give you that, because I am unable to find a census other than 2000.

you know in lower crime areas, I am sure it evens out. But where the big money is at, its far from even...

I dont know where the hell your hometown is man, but I want to go there it must be a damn peachy place for you to only know of the happy tree muslims and to see no racial divide and its all equal...

My hometown is one of the least diverse places in America, at 87.9% white. All of the happy tree muslims (WTF does that even mean?) I am talking about are in Iraq. Because I am in Iraq. And every Iraqi I know is Muslim. I think I know what I am talking about.

I know your serving, and I respect that, but your also going to be getting the "pretty press" guys in your field, the ones who have the sole job of making their culture look friendly, nice,etc.

Are you ****ing joking? I've never turned down a "thanks for serving" in fact I like to hear it, but I do not want to hear it from you. You seriously think there are people here whose job is to make the culture look nice? What the hell is that? I don't even know what to say...you need to go outside sometime...

And finally, you get on me for being intolerant....you do realize that the Christian God will be sending all muslims to eternal damnation per the belief of anyone who is christian? That is the general understanding of the faith, that false doctrines that are a blasphemy against God will not be given entry into heaven? And yet you conflict with me for having issues with them? Like I said I would do what I could to help a man in need(unless he was a satanist maybe...or big pharma CEO, or BP executive, or obama) and would also risk my life if it was a child or younger person or someone who I knew was a good man or woman, even if they are of the faith. But I will never see it as any more than an affliction.

You sir are the definition of bigot. I am pretty sure the general understanding of the faith is forgiveness. I personally believe that everyone will stand up at the gates of Heaven and God will look in to your heart and ask if you are sorry, if you are truly sorry for the things you have done then you will be forgiven, if not you will go to hell. What the **** will you do if the Muslims are the ones with the right religion? Burn in hell and be happy about it? If there is a god there is one of them. There arent 50 gods, 1 per religion, battling it out somewhere, there's one of them, and if there is a heaven every soul will get the chance to go. What if the BP executive is a christian? You would let someone of your own faith die? I don't think God would like that too much. If you really do see the fallacy of the islam faith and every other faith, than a real christian would try and save them by converting them to christianity. Have you ever been on a mission? I doubt it, because instead of wanting people to see the light you condemn them to hell. You are the dumbest person I have ever met, you are a damned fool, and if there is a God, and you are the kind of guy he will let into heaven, I don't want to go there, because I would be to busy punching idiots in the face to enjoy myself.

End rant. I refuse to respond to you until you start using some sense and facts in your argument. You did use the prison census, and I commend you for that, but every single other thing you have said has just been pure prejudice and bigotry. I'll be the big boy and let this die...

I understand where you are coming from, but you should understand where I am coming from as well. I see our entire life as a spiritual war with the single purpose that you do your best to save a few souls from hell before you die and go onto glory...thats it, muslims are seeking to take people to hell...so to me, they are just as deadly and of a risk(spiritually and eternally) as Nazis....take a minute out to understand the spiritual warfare aspect. And forgive me for my own tight views.

See above, your view is idiotic, mainly because the Nazis were christians. I think I've beaten this horse enough.

Now as for the jerry springer aspect, AMERICA IS NO LONGER A CHRISTIAN NATION... that stopped when the damn liberals(i know not just them) really started turning it into a disgusting homo-filled wasteland of filth,porn, and special rights groups. Australia as far as I know is the only remaining nation that claims national Christian faith. If I am not mistaken.

As for America, I am beginning to believe it is the great whore lol.

Here are a few states with christianity as the official religion:
Argentina, Costa Rica, Liechenstein, Malta, Monaco, The Vatican, Greece, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, England, Scotland.

You are mistaken, and a 2 second google search could have saved face for you.

And I have no idea how you are so religous as to hate all other religions but misquote the bible...

 

[nopeace]

getting back to the footage:

Looking at the footage I must agree. Those activist shouldn't have attacked soldiers with metal poles. If I was one of them I'd probably shoot as well..

 

[poison]

For reference, next time you are pulled over for any reason, please attack the police officer with a metal pole, and see if your outcome differs from the Marmara.

 

[poison]

And btw, Reuters was caught editing photos from the deck of the marmara: in both photos, you see different idf soldiers laying bloody on the ground, and peoples legs and feet appear in the pictures. In one, you see someones hand with a large bloody knife in it, standing over the soldier, and in the other, a hand on the railing of the ship with a different bloody knife.

For those who believe they were justified in attacking the soldiers: 1) the idf was legally within its rights to board, 2) the marmara was breaking the law by approaching the barricade, 3) the marmara was warned of the consequences of trying to cross the blockade before they ever left turkey, on the way, and multiple times during that night before they boarded.

They are allowed to try to cross the blockade, just as you or I can make the choice to drive 90mph on the freeway. But we all know the consequences of our actions. They should've used passive resistance on board the marmara, not terrorist tactics (and actual terrorists with ties to global jihad/al qaeda. That totally erodes any point they were trying to make.

 

[gamer2be08]

You make very good points Votum! But so does Zero, and both of you are right.. Kind of. I am part Jordanian and in the military. I am not racist by any mean, but I am justified at being prejudice based on ATTITUDE, not color or religion. The majority of Arabs/Muslims that I know, and trust me, I know a lot, especially since half of my family is Arab, are not decent people; they indecent, rude, violent, loud, abusive and selfish.. I cant stand that half of my family!!! And I think the majority of Non Jew Arabs in general are anti Jew, from what I have seen and im talking about Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs! Again, you cant call me racist or biased.. BECAUSE I am an Arab!

 

[416]

Votum,in talking about the crusades please remember the primary reason for them was the violent incursions by Muslims into Christian territories.Also your statement that Christianity and Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism is false for many reasons.One of which is that Zoroaster or more rightly Zarathustra is mostly beleived (including by the people who live in the area of Iran he was from) to have lived between 600-500 A.D.,while Moses is believed to have lived between 1300-1500 B.C.If anything Zoroastrianism probably evolved from Judaism.

You also said there is only one false prophet while Jesus Himself (Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22) speaks of false Christs and false prophets.What you speak of in Rev.13 is the false prophet who along with the anti-Christ Satan will use during the tribulation (which is after the rapture in most thought)to form a kind of un-holy trinity.

I am not really sure where you got that nazis were Christians.Some may have claimed to be but must were either atheist or follwed the Norse relegion of Odin.While Hitler in His public speaches spoke of God , in private letters and other writings he often disparaged the idea of a god and of his hatred for Christianity.Now if I wanted to know what a polititian thought I would probably pay more attention to what he said in private than when he was trying to sway the people.

I am only replying to the specefic statements you made about Christianity.I just see to many untrue things said like they are true and never go corrected.Like when atheist talk about how many deaths religion is responsible but do not even think about the hundreds of millions of people in this century alone atheists have been responsible for (Stalin , Mao, Pol Pot just to name a few.

 

[votum]

Votum,in talking about the crusades please remember the primary reason for them was the violent incursions by Muslims into Christian territories.Also your statement that Christianity and Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism is false for many reasons.One of which is that Zoroaster or more rightly Zarathustra is mostly beleived (including by the people who live in the area of Iran he was from) to have lived between 600-500 A.D.,while Moses is believed to have lived between 1300-1500 B.C.If anything Zoroastrianism probably evolved from Judaism.

Crusades: http://historymedren.about.com/od/firstcrusade/a/darklegacy.htm
I think it is probably arguable how they started, notice the article does state christians were being mistreated, but the Pope talked about "great attrocities" being commited. Big difference there, and there are a bunch of other reasons in the article that aren't "in response to muslim encroachment" However there is no doubt that muslims were attacking once christian lands...but then again you could say they were re-taking arab lands since the Romans had conquered the land 800ish years before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/zoroastrian/history/zoroaster_1.shtml
BBC states that Zoroastrianism was founded 12-1500 BC, based on archaeological evidence.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jud_zor.htm
This article explains a lot of the similarities between the two. It should be noted also, that it is arguable which came first, some people think Judaism was first, and some people think zoroastrianism was first.

I actually searched a bit and couldn't find anything saying Zoroastrianism evolved from Judaism, if you have any sources I would like to see them

You also said there is only one false prophet while Jesus Himself (Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22) speaks of false Christs and false prophets.What you speak of in Rev.13 is the false prophet who along with the anti-Christ Satan will use during the tribulation (which is after the rapture in most thought)to form a kind of un-holy trinity.

I understood Zero's point as saying something like, "false prophets will bring about the end of the world"

You are right about Jesus talking about false prophets, but I understand those verses to be about the world going to crap before the end of days. There will be only 1 false prophet during the end of days though, if I misunderstood, my bad

I am not really sure where you got that nazis were Christians.Some may have claimed to be but must were either atheist or follwed the Norse relegion of Odin.While Hitler in His public speaches spoke of God , in private letters and other writings he often disparaged the idea of a god and of his hatred for Christianity.Now if I wanted to know what a polititian thought I would probably pay more attention to what he said in private than when he was trying to sway the people.

http://www.theturning.org/folder/nazis.html

Just one article. I think it is probably arguable about the Nazis being christian, but I think the idea has enough merit to validate my point. They viewed Protestantism as the true German religion, and many Nazi rites and ceremonies were modeled after christian variants. They thought Jesus was an Aryan

Heres another more reputable source with many other sources within it:
http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/Adolf_Hitler_Nazi_Germany_Christian_Nationalism_AntiSemitism.htm

It's really very interesting stuff. I consider myself fairly non biased when it comes to religions, because there are so many that are so similiar it just seems odd that only one is the right one. In fact, point 24 of the National Socialist Program endorsed "Positive Christianity"

Odin is the King of the Norse Pantheon, there was a term "Odinism" but it wasn't a wide spread religion. The SS had some occult stuff going on as well, but I don't think you can really back up that statement about most Nazis being Atheist or Pagan. I'd like to see some articles or something though, history is one of my favorite subjects

I am only replying to the specefic statements you made about Christianity.I just see to many untrue things said like they are true and never go corrected.Like when atheist talk about how many deaths religion is responsible but do not even think about the hundreds of millions of people in this century alone atheists have been responsible for (Stalin , Mao, Pol Pot just to name a few.

I agree with you for the most part. Most of what I say has research behind it. I posted all the sources for each one of my counterpoints above, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just asking for you to post your sources as well so I can better myself. I love history from all aspects and of all times, so if I am misunderstanding anything or telling flat out lies I'd like to see the proof so I can better myself!

 

[416]

I am glad you admit that my points were at least arguable.I just so many times see statements made (usually negative) about Christianity as irrefutable fact that I feel are wrong or at the least arguable and it seems it gets repeated over and over without anyone ever even trying to figure out if it is true or not.

Ok, I guess I do not have enough posts to post web links.So on just Hitler alone if you search Hitler atheism you will find an article called Adolph Hitler- Christian,Atheist,or Neither.I think it is very fair.After reading it and other things I am not sure what he was but I am sure he was not a Christian. Goebbels said that as Christianity came from Judaism they would both be destroyed.

 

[votum]

I am glad you admit that my points were at least arguable.I just so many times see statements made (usually negative) about Christianity as irrefutable fact that I feel are wrong or at the least arguable and it seems it gets repeated over and over without anyone ever even trying to figure out if it is true or not.

Ok, I guess I do not have enough posts to post web addresses.So on just Hitler alone if you search Hitler atheism you will find an article called Adolph Hitler- Christian,Atheist,or Neither.I think it is very fair.After reading it and other things I am not sure what he was but I am sure he was not a Christian. Goebbels said that as Christianity came from Judaism they would both be destroyed.

I think that's where most people get their panties in a bunch lol. 99% of everything is arguable, the only thing that isn't arguable is math Most science is arguable too, since the entire school is based upon proving the last guy wrong (world is flat, until you sail around it, fusion is impossible, until you do it, etc)

I agree with you on Hitler, I don't think he was a christian, but I do think the majority of the Nazi army was. Hitler spun it in such a way that they thought they were doing the right thing, like saying Jesus was an Aryan.

For the record, I will argue either side of any argument lol. I remember once I had to debate against using grey water on lawns. I actually think it would be an ok idea, but I did a bunch of research to prepare, killed the debate, and ended it with something like, "don't use grey water on your lawn if you don't want to kill your kids!" Rest of the class voted, I think one voted for grey water lol. College biology class a few years ago. Meh.
I could argue with a wall

 

[EasyEJL]

In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.

 

[votum]

In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.

I shower ...

:lol:

 

[Zero V]

I think that's where most people get their panties in a bunch lol. 99% of everything is arguable, the only thing that isn't arguable is math Most science is arguable too, since the entire school is based upon proving the last guy wrong (world is flat, until you sail around it, fusion is impossible, until you do it, etc)

I agree with you on Hitler, I don't think he was a christian, but I do think the majority of the Nazi army was. Hitler spun it in such a way that they thought they were doing the right thing, like saying Jesus was an Aryan.

For the record, I will argue either side of any argument lol. I remember once I had to debate against using grey water on lawns. I actually think it would be an ok idea, but I did a bunch of research to prepare, killed the debate, and ended it with something like, "don't use grey water on your lawn if you don't want to kill your kids!" Rest of the class voted, I think one voted for grey water lol. College biology class a few years ago. Meh.
I could argue with a wall

I will jump on the nazi bit, and get back to you on the rest later(off to the dentist in like 15 minutes:sad3: ).

Most German soldiers who were captured, enjoyed the hell out of POW camps. Many German soldiers did not want the war, hated the war, but were either going to get shot by their own guys, or the enemy. At least in fighting the enemy they would be able to survive a bit longer, and if they won, survive indefinitely Over there in Germany and Russia in WW II the Christians faced alot of troubles, dont think Hitler or Stalin left them alone by any means or followed the faith.

Your average Krout was just doing his job, being forced into a position to protect the ones he loved. Read up on alot of the German soldiers post WW II opinions. Many were duped in the beginning, but by the end seen Hitler for what he was. An evil mad man, likely guided by(opinion here) the spirit of the anti-christ to do such things as he was doing.

I hate the federal government, but lets say if China invaded I would consider it time to ignore that personal hate, and protect this nation as a whole from an outside source. Which would mean working alongside federal troops. ( I would never join up with them, but in the many Militias that would pop up to stop the invading force, I am certain we would end up side by side with many marines and army, airforce and navy. Probably get supplied somewhat as well).

Its kind of like brotherly conflict, you can piss with each other, but no one else is allowed :usa:

In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.

The same kind of argument used by the serpent in the beginning of Genesis...Though in a more true form.

Genesis chapter 3

Humanity has been duped by such things many times, it was properly taken care of until probably the last 100 years when Christianity started facing....well....lets keep this civil shall we

 

[Nitrox]

In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.

This.

Stories like the OT or one likes this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/father-brother-plead-guilty-in-death-of-daughter/article1605082/ sometimes makes me wonder if the human race is salvageable. Maybe it's just time to tune it all out.

 

[Zero V]

This.

Stories like the OT or one likes this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/father-brother-plead-guilty-in-death-of-daughter/article1605082/ sometimes makes me wonder if the human race is salvageable. Maybe it's just time to tune it all out.

Islam...

 

[Nitrox]

Islam...

I agree that right now Islam seems to be the lightning rod but most religions are guilty of impropriety: the catholic church enabled pedophilia for years and despite being given their own country Israeli jews continue to expand and/or maintain settlements in palestinian territories.