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- 06-14-2010, 08:06 PM
Votum,in talking about the crusades please remember the primary reason for them was the violent incursions by Muslims into Christian territories.Also your statement that Christianity and Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism is false for many reasons.One of which is that Zoroaster or more rightly Zarathustra is mostly beleived (including by the people who live in the area of Iran he was from) to have lived between 600-500 A.D.,while Moses is believed to have lived between 1300-1500 B.C.If anything Zoroastrianism probably evolved from Judaism.
You also said there is only one false prophet while Jesus Himself (Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22) speaks of false Christs and false prophets.What you speak of in Rev.13 is the false prophet who along with the anti-Christ Satan will use during the tribulation (which is after the rapture in most thought)to form a kind of un-holy trinity.
I am not really sure where you got that nazis were Christians.Some may have claimed to be but must were either atheist or follwed the Norse relegion of Odin.While Hitler in His public speaches spoke of God , in private letters and other writings he often disparaged the idea of a god and of his hatred for Christianity.Now if I wanted to know what a polititian thought I would probably pay more attention to what he said in private than when he was trying to sway the people.
I am only replying to the specefic statements you made about Christianity.I just see to many untrue things said like they are true and never go corrected.Like when atheist talk about how many deaths religion is responsible but do not even think about the hundreds of millions of people in this century alone atheists have been responsible for (Stalin , Mao, Pol Pot just to name a few.
- 06-14-2010, 09:35 PM
I think it is probably arguable how they started, notice the article does state christians were being mistreated, but the Pope talked about "great attrocities" being commited. Big difference there, and there are a bunch of other reasons in the article that aren't "in response to muslim encroachment" However there is no doubt that muslims were attacking once christian lands...but then again you could say they were re-taking arab lands since the Romans had conquered the land 800ish years before.
BBC states that Zoroastrianism was founded 12-1500 BC, based on archaeological evidence.
This article explains a lot of the similarities between the two. It should be noted also, that it is arguable which came first, some people think Judaism was first, and some people think zoroastrianism was first.
I actually searched a bit and couldn't find anything saying Zoroastrianism evolved from Judaism, if you have any sources I would like to see them
You are right about Jesus talking about false prophets, but I understand those verses to be about the world going to crap before the end of days. There will be only 1 false prophet during the end of days though, if I misunderstood, my bad
Just one article. I think it is probably arguable about the Nazis being christian, but I think the idea has enough merit to validate my point. They viewed Protestantism as the true German religion, and many Nazi rites and ceremonies were modeled after christian variants. They thought Jesus was an Aryan o.O
Heres another more reputable source with many other sources within it:
It's really very interesting stuff. I consider myself fairly non biased when it comes to religions, because there are so many that are so similiar it just seems odd that only one is the right one. In fact, point 24 of the National Socialist Program endorsed "Positive Christianity"
Odin is the King of the Norse Pantheon, there was a term "Odinism" but it wasn't a wide spread religion. The SS had some occult stuff going on as well, but I don't think you can really back up that statement about most Nazis being Atheist or Pagan. I'd like to see some articles or something though, history is one of my favorite subjects
I agree with you for the most part. Most of what I say has research behind it. I posted all the sources for each one of my counterpoints above, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just asking for you to post your sources as well so I can better myself. I love history from all aspects and of all times, so if I am misunderstanding anything or telling flat out lies I'd like to see the proof so I can better myself!
- 06-14-2010, 10:51 PM
I am glad you admit that my points were at least arguable.I just so many times see statements made (usually negative) about Christianity as irrefutable fact that I feel are wrong or at the least arguable and it seems it gets repeated over and over without anyone ever even trying to figure out if it is true or not.
Ok, I guess I do not have enough posts to post web links.So on just Hitler alone if you search Hitler atheism you will find an article called Adolph Hitler- Christian,Atheist,or Neither.I think it is very fair.After reading it and other things I am not sure what he was but I am sure he was not a Christian. Goebbels said that as Christianity came from Judaism they would both be destroyed.
06-14-2010, 11:47 PM
I agree with you on Hitler, I don't think he was a christian, but I do think the majority of the Nazi army was. Hitler spun it in such a way that they thought they were doing the right thing, like saying Jesus was an Aryan.
For the record, I will argue either side of any argument lol. I remember once I had to debate against using grey water on lawns. I actually think it would be an ok idea, but I did a bunch of research to prepare, killed the debate, and ended it with something like, "don't use grey water on your lawn if you don't want to kill your kids!" Rest of the class voted, I think one voted for grey water lol. College biology class a few years ago. Meh.
I could argue with a wall
06-15-2010, 06:12 AM
In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.
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06-15-2010, 06:16 AM
06-15-2010, 12:53 PM
Most German soldiers who were captured, enjoyed the hell out of POW camps. Many German soldiers did not want the war, hated the war, but were either going to get shot by their own guys, or the enemy. At least in fighting the enemy they would be able to survive a bit longer, and if they won, survive indefinitely Over there in Germany and Russia in WW II the Christians faced alot of troubles, dont think Hitler or Stalin left them alone by any means or followed the faith.
Your average Krout was just doing his job, being forced into a position to protect the ones he loved. Read up on alot of the German soldiers post WW II opinions. Many were duped in the beginning, but by the end seen Hitler for what he was. An evil mad man, likely guided by(opinion here) the spirit of the anti-christ to do such things as he was doing.
I hate the federal government, but lets say if China invaded I would consider it time to ignore that personal hate, and protect this nation as a whole from an outside source. Which would mean working alongside federal troops. ( I would never join up with them, but in the many Militias that would pop up to stop the invading force, I am certain we would end up side by side with many marines and army, airforce and navy. Probably get supplied somewhat as well).
Its kind of like brotherly conflict, you can piss with each other, but no one else is allowed
Genesis chapter 3
Humanity has been duped by such things many times, it was properly taken care of until probably the last 100 years when Christianity started facing....well....lets keep this civil shall we
06-15-2010, 01:19 PM
Stories like the OT or one likes this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1605082/ sometimes makes me wonder if the human race is salvageable. Maybe it's just time to tune it all out.
06-15-2010, 01:35 PM
06-15-2010, 01:48 PM
06-15-2010, 04:18 PM
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