Mavi Marama raid...the real IDF footage

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    Votum,in talking about the crusades please remember the primary reason for them was the violent incursions by Muslims into Christian territories.Also your statement that Christianity and Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism is false for many reasons.One of which is that Zoroaster or more rightly Zarathustra is mostly beleived (including by the people who live in the area of Iran he was from) to have lived between 600-500 A.D.,while Moses is believed to have lived between 1300-1500 B.C.If anything Zoroastrianism probably evolved from Judaism.

    You also said there is only one false prophet while Jesus Himself (Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22) speaks of false Christs and false prophets.What you speak of in Rev.13 is the false prophet who along with the anti-Christ Satan will use during the tribulation (which is after the rapture in most thought)to form a kind of un-holy trinity.

    I am not really sure where you got that nazis were Christians.Some may have claimed to be but must were either atheist or follwed the Norse relegion of Odin.While Hitler in His public speaches spoke of God , in private letters and other writings he often disparaged the idea of a god and of his hatred for Christianity.Now if I wanted to know what a polititian thought I would probably pay more attention to what he said in private than when he was trying to sway the people.

    I am only replying to the specefic statements you made about Christianity.I just see to many untrue things said like they are true and never go corrected.Like when atheist talk about how many deaths religion is responsible but do not even think about the hundreds of millions of people in this century alone atheists have been responsible for (Stalin , Mao, Pol Pot just to name a few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    Votum,in talking about the crusades please remember the primary reason for them was the violent incursions by Muslims into Christian territories.Also your statement that Christianity and Judaism evolved from Zoroastrianism is false for many reasons.One of which is that Zoroaster or more rightly Zarathustra is mostly beleived (including by the people who live in the area of Iran he was from) to have lived between 600-500 A.D.,while Moses is believed to have lived between 1300-1500 B.C.If anything Zoroastrianism probably evolved from Judaism.
    Crusades: http://historymedren.about.com/od/fi...darklegacy.htm
    I think it is probably arguable how they started, notice the article does state christians were being mistreated, but the Pope talked about "great attrocities" being commited. Big difference there, and there are a bunch of other reasons in the article that aren't "in response to muslim encroachment" However there is no doubt that muslims were attacking once christian lands...but then again you could say they were re-taking arab lands since the Romans had conquered the land 800ish years before.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...oaster_1.shtml
    BBC states that Zoroastrianism was founded 12-1500 BC, based on archaeological evidence.

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jud_zor.htm
    This article explains a lot of the similarities between the two. It should be noted also, that it is arguable which came first, some people think Judaism was first, and some people think zoroastrianism was first.

    I actually searched a bit and couldn't find anything saying Zoroastrianism evolved from Judaism, if you have any sources I would like to see them

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    You also said there is only one false prophet while Jesus Himself (Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22) speaks of false Christs and false prophets.What you speak of in Rev.13 is the false prophet who along with the anti-Christ Satan will use during the tribulation (which is after the rapture in most thought)to form a kind of un-holy trinity.
    I understood Zero's point as saying something like, "false prophets will bring about the end of the world"

    You are right about Jesus talking about false prophets, but I understand those verses to be about the world going to crap before the end of days. There will be only 1 false prophet during the end of days though, if I misunderstood, my bad

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    I am not really sure where you got that nazis were Christians.Some may have claimed to be but must were either atheist or follwed the Norse relegion of Odin.While Hitler in His public speaches spoke of God , in private letters and other writings he often disparaged the idea of a god and of his hatred for Christianity.Now if I wanted to know what a polititian thought I would probably pay more attention to what he said in private than when he was trying to sway the people.
    http://www.theturning.org/folder/nazis.html

    Just one article. I think it is probably arguable about the Nazis being christian, but I think the idea has enough merit to validate my point. They viewed Protestantism as the true German religion, and many Nazi rites and ceremonies were modeled after christian variants. They thought Jesus was an Aryan o.O

    Heres another more reputable source with many other sources within it:
    http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...tiSemitism.htm

    It's really very interesting stuff. I consider myself fairly non biased when it comes to religions, because there are so many that are so similiar it just seems odd that only one is the right one. In fact, point 24 of the National Socialist Program endorsed "Positive Christianity"

    Odin is the King of the Norse Pantheon, there was a term "Odinism" but it wasn't a wide spread religion. The SS had some occult stuff going on as well, but I don't think you can really back up that statement about most Nazis being Atheist or Pagan. I'd like to see some articles or something though, history is one of my favorite subjects

    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    I am only replying to the specefic statements you made about Christianity.I just see to many untrue things said like they are true and never go corrected.Like when atheist talk about how many deaths religion is responsible but do not even think about the hundreds of millions of people in this century alone atheists have been responsible for (Stalin , Mao, Pol Pot just to name a few.

    I agree with you for the most part. Most of what I say has research behind it. I posted all the sources for each one of my counterpoints above, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just asking for you to post your sources as well so I can better myself. I love history from all aspects and of all times, so if I am misunderstanding anything or telling flat out lies I'd like to see the proof so I can better myself!
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    I am glad you admit that my points were at least arguable.I just so many times see statements made (usually negative) about Christianity as irrefutable fact that I feel are wrong or at the least arguable and it seems it gets repeated over and over without anyone ever even trying to figure out if it is true or not.

    Ok, I guess I do not have enough posts to post web links.So on just Hitler alone if you search Hitler atheism you will find an article called Adolph Hitler- Christian,Atheist,or Neither.I think it is very fair.After reading it and other things I am not sure what he was but I am sure he was not a Christian. Goebbels said that as Christianity came from Judaism they would both be destroyed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 416 View Post
    I am glad you admit that my points were at least arguable.I just so many times see statements made (usually negative) about Christianity as irrefutable fact that I feel are wrong or at the least arguable and it seems it gets repeated over and over without anyone ever even trying to figure out if it is true or not.

    Ok, I guess I do not have enough posts to post web addresses.So on just Hitler alone if you search Hitler atheism you will find an article called Adolph Hitler- Christian,Atheist,or Neither.I think it is very fair.After reading it and other things I am not sure what he was but I am sure he was not a Christian. Goebbels said that as Christianity came from Judaism they would both be destroyed.
    I think that's where most people get their panties in a bunch lol. 99% of everything is arguable, the only thing that isn't arguable is math Most science is arguable too, since the entire school is based upon proving the last guy wrong (world is flat, until you sail around it, fusion is impossible, until you do it, etc)

    I agree with you on Hitler, I don't think he was a christian, but I do think the majority of the Nazi army was. Hitler spun it in such a way that they thought they were doing the right thing, like saying Jesus was an Aryan.

    For the record, I will argue either side of any argument lol. I remember once I had to debate against using grey water on lawns. I actually think it would be an ok idea, but I did a bunch of research to prepare, killed the debate, and ended it with something like, "don't use grey water on your lawn if you don't want to kill your kids!" Rest of the class voted, I think one voted for grey water lol. College biology class a few years ago. Meh.
    I could argue with a wall
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    In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.
    I shower ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by votum View Post
    I think that's where most people get their panties in a bunch lol. 99% of everything is arguable, the only thing that isn't arguable is math Most science is arguable too, since the entire school is based upon proving the last guy wrong (world is flat, until you sail around it, fusion is impossible, until you do it, etc)

    I agree with you on Hitler, I don't think he was a christian, but I do think the majority of the Nazi army was. Hitler spun it in such a way that they thought they were doing the right thing, like saying Jesus was an Aryan.

    For the record, I will argue either side of any argument lol. I remember once I had to debate against using grey water on lawns. I actually think it would be an ok idea, but I did a bunch of research to prepare, killed the debate, and ended it with something like, "don't use grey water on your lawn if you don't want to kill your kids!" Rest of the class voted, I think one voted for grey water lol. College biology class a few years ago. Meh.
    I could argue with a wall
    I will jump on the nazi bit, and get back to you on the rest later(off to the dentist in like 15 minutes ).

    Most German soldiers who were captured, enjoyed the hell out of POW camps. Many German soldiers did not want the war, hated the war, but were either going to get shot by their own guys, or the enemy. At least in fighting the enemy they would be able to survive a bit longer, and if they won, survive indefinitely Over there in Germany and Russia in WW II the Christians faced alot of troubles, dont think Hitler or Stalin left them alone by any means or followed the faith.

    Your average Krout was just doing his job, being forced into a position to protect the ones he loved. Read up on alot of the German soldiers post WW II opinions. Many were duped in the beginning, but by the end seen Hitler for what he was. An evil mad man, likely guided by(opinion here) the spirit of the anti-christ to do such things as he was doing.

    I hate the federal government, but lets say if China invaded I would consider it time to ignore that personal hate, and protect this nation as a whole from an outside source. Which would mean working alongside federal troops. ( I would never join up with them, but in the many Militias that would pop up to stop the invading force, I am certain we would end up side by side with many marines and army, airforce and navy. Probably get supplied somewhat as well).

    Its kind of like brotherly conflict, you can piss with each other, but no one else is allowed


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.
    The same kind of argument used by the serpent in the beginning of Genesis...Though in a more true form.

    Genesis chapter 3

    Humanity has been duped by such things many times, it was properly taken care of until probably the last 100 years when Christianity started facing....well....lets keep this civil shall we
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    In the end, all of the world's religions were created by the powerful elite to help give them another tool to control the unwashed masses.
    This.

    Stories like the OT or one likes this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1605082/ sometimes makes me wonder if the human race is salvageable. Maybe it's just time to tune it all out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    This.

    Stories like the OT or one likes this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1605082/ sometimes makes me wonder if the human race is salvageable. Maybe it's just time to tune it all out.
    Islam...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    Islam...
    I agree that right now Islam seems to be the lightning rod but most religions are guilty of impropriety: the catholic church enabled pedophilia for years and despite being given their own country Israeli jews continue to expand and/or maintain settlements in palestinian territories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    Islam...
    Bad people will be around forever my friend.

    It doesn't really matter what religion you are part of, there are evil people around you.

    Religions just make it easier to target more people at once
  

  
 

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