The New Arizona Immigration Law (SB1070) in Arizona

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    It's funny how text book concepts are being questioned here. You obviously are informed at a higher level than the authors of most Economics textbooks.

    The real world? You mean like Arizona? Where I am a native of and live?
    Most of my life I have been in the restaurant industry and trust me dude, illegals are lowering the median wage of this state.
    Timmah, do you work in a restaurant or on the business side of it. I was actually very close to many of my business professors and they will easily admit that economics is the theory that drives business. Do the principles hold true? Yes. Completely? No way. If you think that the textbooks easily convert to the real world, then read a textbook on banking and start a bank. Its not that simple. To deny that a textbook does not equal real life is ignorant.

    Also, it is obvious that the illegals lower the median wage. What are you trying to prove by this. If you understand what a median is, then you will see how a group making significantly less will drive down the median. This proves nothing against my statements.

    I really feel you are picking the side line arguments.
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  2. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    Wait a minute, how did Steve Nash get the royal F-Bomb?
    Steven Nash was well aware of the perception the recent bill created for Arizona and that seemed to play a role in his decision, "It doesn't feel good to have people around the world and around the country look at our state as less than equal, less than fair. As proud citizen of this state, I want us to be held in the highest esteem. I think we have a lot of great attributes and a lot of great people and I think we need to be very cautious in how we respect our civil liberties and the tone we're setting and the precedents we're setting moving forward."

    Upholding the constitution is only acceptable if it feels good and people hold us in their highest esteem.

    What a crock of ****. If I recall men and women died for this country and for our Constitution. I imagine that may have been a bit inconvenient.

    God forbid your pocket book should suffer because you stand up for and support your Constitution.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Open enrollment: from today untill the end of the year undocumented residents are encouraged to come forward and register for the program. In return they will be given a temporary worker permit. At the first of the year these same individuals will be utilized as paid resources to erect and or construct a security fence along the Arizona/Mexico border. Upon completion of their services they will then be granted temporary residence contigent upon them completing all the necessary requirements to complete the naturalization process.

    If they indeed want to secure the border, want anmesty and are non-criminal illegal immigrants (likely some will not turn out because they are felons with warrants) then here is an opportunity to be part of the solution rather than expecting to be given a free ride.

    It's a rough draft. I'm at work and have little time to compose more but go ahead and run with it.

    BTW - **** Steve Nash!
    Mr Dunn, I love that plan!!!!!!

    Are you aware that the country most offended by this new bill, Mexico has and enforces their immigration laws with 2-10 years in prison and they are required to prosecute. Yet they are screaming that we want to do so...

    I also believe we have our low income workers right here in the country. They are in prison and owe a debt to society. As part of rehabilitation ALL PRISONERS should be forced to work a 40 hour week in a low-moderate skill associated job. Refusal to do so should automatically result in a stay of any possibility of parole because without developing work ethic they have not been rehabilitated at all. The prisons should be used for manufacturing generic products to be used for people on welfare systems, as well as other mundane items of gross consumer consumption. Upon release they could have letters of recommendation regarding work ethic, leadership ability and any other asset that they displayed during their sentence. Learned skills would make them more likely to get jobs and keep them when they get out. On top of that the work would cover the cost of keeping them in prison. Heck make the commissary and food on a pay scale too so they have to budget the money you work harder and better you get more in your commissary the better food and product you can get while in lock up.

    Far too many people whine about the Civil rights of prisoners who have violated others rights to get put into prisons in the first place. I went to jail, I worked on a pea farm to get my time reduced. There are work programs however they need to be required. Being a functional and productive worker should be a requirement for any prisoner before any possibility of parole. If you have the right to oppress others and take away from the quality of life you have the right to be forced to work manual labor jobs until your DEBT TO SOCIETY has been repaid and you have proven you are functional enough to hold a job once released.

    On top of that unemployment would take care of the rest of the jobs nobody wants to do. Pay them the same amount they get now according to previous salary, but make them do labor to earn the unemployment rights. No free rides people no free rides. You can make that 12 an hour but not sitting at home collecting a check going on and sabotaging an interview every week or two... Make them show proof of an interview for time you take off to interview for a job to get paid for that time... Simple as that. You don't wanna work you don't wanna get paid. People need to be accountable for themselves. It is ridiculous how no one is accountable for themselves anymore. There should not be ANY entitlement programs that can sustain a family indefinitely that does not require them to get off their ass and work for it.

    That would take care of so much of the monetarily detrimental side of illegal's being sent home and free up government money for other things like educating our youth to lessen poverty levels of future generations.

    There is no definite clear cut answer but there is obviously a problem and sweeping it under the table is not the solution. Lots of great ideas, but some control is definitely needed.

    As far as race goes I am so tired of that crap. I am not racist, most of my family is integrated with blacks and hispanics and I love and adore everyone of them. To everyone else Whites are racist against everyone anytime a political matter comes up. However when a person of color is a racist it isn't called racism. It is called reverse racism. Are you kidding me??? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Reverse racism would be that they love all people of a different race blindly ignorant of any personal attribute possessed by the individuals with in. Because that would be the reverse or opposite of racism. So just call it what it is, they are racist too. White's don't own the market on racism anymore. I doubt we are even the majority anymore when you count all of the separate minorities together. So then you look at affirmative action, all things being equal you must resort to racism to place a person. We have 8 whites 5 blacks an Indian and 4 Hispanics. According to our ratio we have to hire the Indian applicant even though we didn't feel he was the best fit. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? We are far along enough to recognize this as racism in and of itself. Why is discrimination okay against whites in that position? Equality is as big now as it is ever going to be. Don't we have a Middle Eastern/Black President? A fact that makes me proud even if I don't agree with all of his politics. That is the highest office in the friggin WORLD and we finally have reached a point of equality that he was able to be elected. I can not tell you how good of a thing I think that is regardless of the fact I don't agree with many of his political views. I am an independent and think both sides have a lot of great ideas as well as ridiculous ones if you are wondering. I like to make my decision based on my thoughts and not a party's belief system.
    As far as profiling goes, yeah people profile... I hate to be the voice of reason but profiling is there because people fit a profile... Does that mean that everyone within that race is a certain way. No. Does it mean there are common generalities that anyone aware of their surroundings can easily notice. Yes. Go to any comedy show and listen to the nonstop jokes. Blacks Hispanics, whites, middle eastern Indians dogging on their own race about the very same things being complained about as profiling. Interesting they can pick at themselves for all of the same things that "profiling" supposedly does but since it is them making the observation it is ok. BULLCRAP! It isn't discrimination to recognize someone is different, or that there are trends of characteristics in certain demographics.

    I am all for profiling if you see someone dressed like a thug, loose pants, oversized shirt, race not even considered I profile them as a gangster OR a gangster wannabe. If you dress like a gang banger don't get upset if you are treated like one. If you come up to me in skid row clothes and smelling like you haven't bathed in a while I will assume you are homeless. If you come to live in the country and can't speak the language, don't get upset if someone thinks you are illegal. Profiling is a valuable tool. Profiling is pro-active if you don't profile, or notice trends how can you capitalize on the information? In business the best practice is to research / follow trends and decide what course of action to take based off of that information. Why then would the same practice not be the best way to locate criminals? Without profiling we are just waiting for something bad to happen. Our court systems are here to prove the guilt of a person via trial. The officer does not make the decision of guilt only an assessment of probable cause. I assure you many more criminals have been caught from profiling than innocent people have been convicted. I am a bald man with a goatee and have been this way for 15 years. I lived in Pasadena during the height of the gang days. I got lots of profiling then because at first only bangers and thugs were doing it. I knew I looked like a thug and expected to be pulled over or questioned on occasion because of it. Not because I was doing something wrong but because I fit a profile. They stopped me harassed me, checked me out and as long as I came up clean I was on my way.

    The crimes they mention here in this bill are all valid crimes that fit the profile of typical undocumented illegal's soliciting work and what not. Cars stopping roadside to pick them up, guys standing in Home Depot parking lots all day... those are the crimes they are watching for. So they will get more illegal's, hookers and johns with by exercising the law. Do I think that there are racially motivated police who will abuse this law? Absolutely but they are already abusing their power so this doesn't change it. The bad are already doing bad, and the good will keep doing good for society. There are far to many spin doctors and victim minded people use profiling as some type of scapegoat. If you got pulled over for fitting a profile and WOW you had drugs on you. You still cry profiling because If you didn't get pulled over you wouldn't have gotten caught. How about owning up to the fact you were profiled because your actions and actions of others like you CREATED the profile... You did have the drugs just like the profile he used to identify you as a possible criminal... Not only that you reinforced the profile... Fugging victims... None of these "profiles" would exist if there weren't enough people doing things to create a noticeable trend. I include whites in this too. I went to Nuevo Laredo that is a Mexican border town. I am kind of muscular I don't know if you noticed. Well guess what I was stopped and strip searched and asked specifically if I had steroids when I came back. Why do you think that was? Is it because it was my turn in the random line? HMMMM I don't think that was it... Is it because I was a muscular gringo in a border town where guys built like me come to get steroids regularly and there was at least a decent likelihood I might have some. I will put my money on the second option. I will also tell you if I was that border patrol officer I WOULD have stopped me and searched me too. I consider that a job well done. Not an offense towards me and all other muscular males, but perfect use of the profile of a possible steroid seeker.

    People's feelings getting hurt has become far too important in this country. I am so sick of political correctness. Profiling is a valuable tool, and when not used by a bad person is truly invaluable. However there will always be douche bags that abuse any power available to them because they are oppressors. I don't really care if it hurt your feelings that you were pulled over and the officer checked your creds, if you are legit 9999 times out of 10000 you will have absolutely no problem. Every once in a while even a legit person will have a discrepancy, that is collateral damage and is minute compared to the greater good that comes from profiling. Money gets people off not race, special interest groups get people off not race. I had a black friend of mine back in my rough days caught with 20 rocks of crack. With a court appointed attorney he served 3 days and got 10 years probation. So excessive punishment based on race does not run across the board either. He deserved some jail time for sure. Same as If I was juicing and I got caught I deserve jail time. If I illegally invade another country and falsify documents I deserve jail time. Heck as an American citizen if I forge government documents I have committed a major offense. So why should these people who have done a combination of those things be free to keep on keeping on just because they are a different color or from a poor area? Would it be justified then if I couldn't pay my bills for me to enter into your home illegally and take up residence there as long as I am not actually intending to do you harm? I think not. So let's not act like it is okay as a nation to accept the exact same behavior from illegal alien's. Oops I mean Undocumented Immigrant or whatever the stupid PC word is for them now. Why the hell do we have to be so considerate of them they have a PC name to refer to them. WTF? They enter our country illegally, from other countries, but we have to call them Undocumented Immigrants so as not to offend them? Where I come from someone trespasses knowingly where they are not supposed to be you fill their ass with buckshot or whoop that azz... You definitely don't give them free healthcare and let them play in your front lawn...

    We need to be a little more real and stop walking on eggshells over peoples feelings. If they feel we are discriminating against them they are correct. We are discriminating from the people who belong here and those who don't. Discrimination has become a bad word and it isn't one. We discriminate any time we notice a difference and make a decision based on that difference. That is part of the process of decision making.
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  4. Now I remember why I stay out of the politics section lol.

    I have a generalized rant that I wish to relinquish and somebody has to break it down sentence by sentence and think I was referring/directed it towards them....

    Blahh

    BTW Planning out a cycle and doing a cycle of illegal drugs are 2 different things.
    Due to me still being to ***** to get hold of real gear I have decided to completely put it off and just use my legal stuff I do have. I actually pride myself in the fact that I have never taken any illegal drug (as of yet). This does not mean that I may never do real gear however until I have I am clean...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    Now I remember why I stay out of the politics section lol.

    I have a generalized rant that I wish to relinquish and somebody has to break it down sentence by sentence and think I was referring/directed it towards them....

    Blahh

    BTW Planning out a cycle and doing a cycle of illegal drugs are 2 different things.
    Due to me still being to ***** to get hold of real gear I have decided to completely put it off and just use my legal stuff I do have. I actually pride myself in the fact that I have never taken any illegal drug (as of yet). This does not mean that I may never do real gear however until I have I am clean...
    I wasn't attacking, I honestly am enjoying this debate, and do not look down on anybody whose opinion opposes me. Even the steroid comment wasn't an attack, this site is full of anabolic users and I am a proud member. It was simply a way of supporting my point.

    I also didn't feel that I was directly attacked, rather your rant generalized on the opposition to your feelings, which is a contrast to the generalization I think is being placed on illegals.
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  6. In regards to David's post about the man who was murdered:

    This is an extremely terrible case. My condolences. My argument isn't that we should allow open borders. Rather, we need much stronger enforcement of our borders.

    The situation involving the drugs is another that requires debate. We are, as a country, fueling this war. No matter which side of the drug war you are on, I believe both sides can admit it is a failed attempt. The demand we create here in the states makes drugs a big big business. With the prohibition as it stands, we create a scenario very similar to the prohibition of alcohol. The profit goes into the hands of organized crime, and they will stop at nothing to protect that profit.

    I am not to sure how any of you are familiar with Ron Paul, a libertarian who has attempted to get on the presidential ballot as a Republican. His stance on the drug war is very similar to mine. This is a perfect example to as to why I wouldn't want to be labeled a left wing nut, I am much closer to middle-left then extreme left.
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  7. To Mr. Kleen:

    I agree with alot of what you said, and disagree with some as well.

    The prison reform:

    I completely would love to see that action played out. It would work in theory. However, extreme leftists would be all over this like flies on ****, and it would never be enacted. Unfortunately, that is the reality of the situation.

    I tend to disagree on your stance on unemployment. A person who was gone and received a masters degree, worked for a company for 35 years and is one day laid off, does not need to be picking peas for his unemployment check. The unemployment system is funded through specific taxes. The government has an insurance tax that companies pay, and that money is directly for that matter. If people had to work for that check, then there is no real reason that businesses must suffer the excess tax. Now on that note someone who collects unemployment for years and fakes job interviews, etc. is an abuse to the system and the reason why the system fails. In theory unemployment is supposed to be a fixed short term solution. Instead, and especially in this economic environment, benefits are continually increased.

    I agree and disagree on your thoughts on race. I agree in the fact that not all, you, me and in sure most if not all involved in this conversation are not racist. My point is that this system will be abused by those who are and in power. I understand racist police already exists, but this gives them more power.

    The only point I must extremely disagree with is how you are ok with the profiling and being treated differently. I can be walking around at 295lbs 7% body fat (haha..yea right) and don't need to be accused of steroid use every time I am near a cop. This is leading towards the idea of a police state, and our liberties of this country are meant to protect us from such accusation. If I dress like a stoner, wear a bob marley t-shirt and have dread locks, but give no indication that I am carrying marijuana, a cop does NOT have the right to search my car based on me fitting a profile. This is illegal search and seizure. Unless I give direct indication that I am breaking a law, an officer should have no right what so ever, to treat me as a criminal.
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  8. Dr's can now be drafted with the new heatlhcare takeover.

    Me using roids does not affect your pocketbook or your right to wear an american flag on your T-shirt.

    My racist comment was due to the fact that the liberal media calls everyone that does not agree with them a racist. They dont know the real definition so I'm going with the fad of being a racist. Even tea partiers are racist and they just want lower taxes.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2 View Post
    Dr's can now be drafted with the new heatlhcare takeover.

    Me using roids does not affect your pocketbook or your right to wear an american flag on your T-shirt.

    My racist comment was due to the fact that the liberal media calls everyone that does not agree with them a racist. They dont know the real definition so I'm going with the fad of being a racist. Even tea partiers are racist and they just want lower taxes.
    I havn't heard of the Doctors draft with the health care issue. I have read a good portion of the bill (being in the industry) and didn't note it. I also havn't heard about it in any news. If you have a source Id love to read it.

    To the roid comment, neither does an illegal who works, pays for thier own products, and accepts no handouts. I think people need to stop thinking every illegal is a freeloading criminal drug cartel.

    I hope you don't associate yourself with the Tea Party. The individuals in that group make me want to ****ing slam my head through a wall. It's funny that people like Glen Beck (I shudder to mention him) refer to those not paying attention to his daring government discovieries as "sheeple," yet the tea party seems to walk and drool to the tune of fox news like its a cult. Half of them don't know thier heads from thier ass when it comes to politics, and the intelligence levels of most of the crowd speaks for itself. I hope for them to spend less time in front of fox news and political marches and more time getting a damn education.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y"]YouTube- 9.12 DC TEA PARTY - MARCH FOOTAGE WITH INTERVIEWS[/nomedia]






    And this is by far my favorite:



    Calling these people a political movement is an insult to America. This is just what happens when Jerry Springer goes off the air.
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  10. suck this liberal weeners calling tea partiers racists

    http://www.nbra.info/

    National Black Republican Association
    Democrats Falsely Accuse Tea Party Activists of Racism

    That is an all black website.... go eat your hearts out

  11. Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    suck this liberal weeners calling tea partiers racists

    http://www.nbra.info/

    National Black Republican Association
    Democrats Falsely Accuse Tea Party Activists of Racism

    That is an all black website.... go eat your hearts out
    I think more people consider the tea party stupid as opposed to racist.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Timmah, do you work in a restaurant or on the business side of it. I was actually very close to many of my business professors and they will easily admit that economics is the theory that drives business. Do the principles hold true? Yes. Completely? No way. If you think that the textbooks easily convert to the real world, then read a textbook on banking and start a bank. Its not that simple. To deny that a textbook does not equal real life is ignorant.

    Also, it is obvious that the illegals lower the median wage. What are you trying to prove by this. If you understand what a median is, then you will see how a group making significantly less will drive down the median. This proves nothing against my statements.

    I really feel you are picking the side line arguments.
    Although I don't feel the need to try and "one up" you by saying I have more education, real life experience or whatever point you are trying to make in this debate by telling me of your accomplishments, here goes:
    I do not have a degree in economics, I have taken micro and macro as part of degree requirements for my degree in business management which will be completed in December of this year(34 is a little late for college, I know).I also have held management positions for about half of my 18 years in restaurants although now am a server as that is the best $ for a full-time college student with the least time and effort required from me.

    My point is this: Illegalsare a drain on this states economy, if you don't think so just Google search the demographics of the prisons and county jails (not to mention the hospital statistics I gave you earlier).

    Illegals do bring down wages in AZ, I know this first hand, the cooks in my restaurant work for peanuts and guess what:three out of four are illegals. The farming example is a perfect explanation of what is wrong with Arizonans working-class wages.

    "Reasonable suspicion" as stated by the bill doesn't directly lead to racial profiling. Think about this: A person gets pulled over for a traffic violation with sonoran license plates, no AZ drivers license and no proof of citizenship/work visa. The cop then arrests the man on suspicion of being in the country illegally. Whats wrong with that?


    waddaya mean "sideline arguments?" I thought the issue was how much does our country rely on illegal labor? The answer is too much, for the added expenses, at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  13. There is no need to try to one up each other education wise. This is an adult debate and shouldn't turn to a my **** is bigger then your **** conversation. (..ill pardon myself on that for my tea party cracks - but i cant help it). My comment about what your angle of the restaurant industry was just a matter of honestly assessing what your experience with running a business is. In my, non business running experience, which is rather influenced by being very close to many business owners (including my own boss) as well as professors, economic theory is not a direct translation.

    I do think Illegals are a drain, in many of the matters we are discussing. However, there are many illegals who are not and thier hard work supports many things we take for granted. This country needs immigration reform. It shouldn't be a drawn out, expensive process. All our relatives (minue natives) came here for a purpose, opportunity, escaping oppresion, etc. Unfortuantely, with strict immigration laws that stop a hardworking trustworthy person from entering the country, we no longer offer that.

    I still am not to sure what the argument is for the lower median income. As I said, if you introduce a bunch of low numbers to a sample of higher numbers, the median will be lowered. This is basicly by definition.

    Because reasonable suspicion can be anything to anyone. As somone mentioned here, encouraging stereotype profiling, I can NOT be searched for steroids if I am wearing a shirt that says "I support steroid reform." "Reasonable" is not an accurate description. Especially when you are considering putting someone in jail.

    The sideline argument going here is that I am now defending illegals, which I don't really care to. I don't think thier needs to be defense of an illegal. My main argument was against how we are handling the problem. So althought after re-reading my sideline argument it was pointed at you, that was my mistake, it was more so the discussion in general.
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  14. Thank GOD you live around of AMERICANS of MEXICAN ancestry ,if you live there you must like mexicans lol!!!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by raulob72 View Post
    Thank GOD you live around of AMERICANS of MEXICAN ancestry ,if you live there you must like mexicans lol!!!
    Who was this directed at?
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    There is no need to try to one up each other education wise. This is an adult debate and shouldn't turn to a my **** is bigger then your **** conversation. (..ill pardon myself on that for my tea party cracks - but i cant help it). My comment about what your angle of the restaurant industry was just a matter of honestly assessing what your experience with running a business is. In my, non business running experience, which is rather influenced by being very close to many business owners (including my own boss) as well as professors, economic theory is not a direct translation.

    I do think Illegals are a drain, in many of the matters we are discussing. However, there are many illegals who are not and thier hard work supports many things we take for granted. This country needs immigration reform. It shouldn't be a drawn out, expensive process. All our relatives (minue natives) came here for a purpose, opportunity, escaping oppresion, etc. Unfortuantely, with strict immigration laws that stop a hardworking trustworthy person from entering the country, we no longer offer that.

    I still am not to sure what the argument is for the lower median income. As I said, if you introduce a bunch of low numbers to a sample of higher numbers, the median will be lowered. This is basicly by definition.

    Because reasonable suspicion can be anything to anyone. As somone mentioned here, encouraging stereotype profiling, I can NOT be searched for steroids if I am wearing a shirt that says "I support steroid reform." "Reasonable" is not an accurate description. Especially when you are considering putting someone in jail.

    The sideline argument going here is that I am now defending illegals, which I don't really care to. I don't think their needs to be defense of an illegal. My main argument was against how we are handling the problem. So althought after re-reading my sideline argument it was pointed at you, that was my mistake, it was more so the discussion in general.
    I agree that many illegals are an asset to their community, I don't want them all kicked out, just the one's that sponge of of the US then go a marchin down to the capital waving a Mexican flag demanding amnesty.
    Amnesty is not the answer, neither is rounding all illegals up and throwing them in jail
    The 1070 bill is a good start, and it is under such scrutiny that if any illegal is arrested and has a legitimate case of racial profiling, it will be HUGE to the media. The police do not want that so they are less likely to racially profile.

    My argument for the lowered median income is, funny enough, the exact same as the south park episode you quoted in your first post. They did take our jobs, at a much lower rate of pay and it creates higher poverty levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  17. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    I agree that many illegals are an asset to their community, I don't want them all kicked out, just the one's that sponge of of the US then go a marchin down to the capital waving a Mexican flag demanding amnesty.
    Amnesty is not the answer, neither is rounding all illegals up and throwing them in jail
    The 1070 bill is a good start, and it is under such scrutiny that if any illegal is arrested and has a legitimate case of racial profiling, it will be HUGE to the media. The police do not want that so they are less likely to racially profile.

    My argument for the lowered median income is, funny enough, the exact same as the south park episode you quoted in your first post. They did take our jobs, at a much lower rate of pay and it creates higher poverty levels.
    See, lets all note this response to me. This is exactly why I am glad that this place allows for legitimate debate in a mature fashion. Timmmah, I think we agree on more then you realize. Your assesment on not wanting them all rounded up and jailed, rather just get rid of the criminals and leechers is in complete agreement with my stance. We slightly stray based on you thinking this bill is a good start and me thinking it is one that may lead to more harm then good, but the outlook on these people is nearly the same. The problem is, the ones that think an illegal is an illegal is an illegal, need to realize these are people as well. They are a you or me, working for what they can despite thier situations. The criminals and the leechers are the filth that shine a bad light on these people.

    Ill both accept and not accept your job positioning. I accept that an illegal working as a cook, when a legal would want the position is not fair to a legal resident of this country. However, the illegals that are willing to perform near slave labor, on products that depend on the low wage to remain profitable, probably are not taking to much work away from the legal residents who feel above those positions.
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  18. HeretoStudy. I definitely have no hard feelings. I enjoy a good debate and do not assume I am infallible so educated debate invigorates me. I was in Mexico and it was the Mexican government that did that. All though crossing the border customs has the right to search you randomly.

    This is a response to your comments but not directed at you. Then some of it is just that I got going and couldn't stop.

    I do think profiling is a good reason to pull someone over WHEN combined with ANY suspicious behavior. However they still can not search you without your permission or a warrant even with reasonable cause. They can however hold you while they obtain a warrant. They can and always have been able to check your ID if you are in public, which is a very loose meaning. If you step outside of your house but are still on your property this is considered public. One reason I will never step outside my home to talk to a police officer. I learned that from my partying days. You are required to show your ID when asked and can be placed in jail if not. This is true for Americans and Illegals alike. The big difference here is that they can send them for deportation now. Before when an officer picked up an illegal they just went to jail slept there and went back to their American home. Many times the officers knew they were illegals and only wrote tickets to avoid paperwork, and clogging up jails even more. Of course the illegals never go to court so no big deal a warrant is issued. They get caught they stay over night and once again back home. Now the difference is that the home they would go back to would be in Mexico.

    Admittedly a lot of the illegals get false documents and pay taxes they will never get a return on and social security to fake numbers which they will never receive the benefits. I would be more than apt to say the government knows exactly who they are but chooses to allow them to stay because of that fact. I am also aware of the sales tax they pay on all purchases that generates money for the government. However the drain on the system is more in the lines of medical, educational and imprisonment costs.

    I completely agree with you on illegal search and seizure however once again having to show valid state identification has been on the books forever. If you are unable to provide identification you can expect whether you are white, black, green, or purple to have to empty your pockets when you get put in the back of the car.

    Here is something to ponder though I know you said every child deserves a good education including the illegals or anchor babies. Ideally I would be inclined to agree until it causes a problem for me and my children. When I tried to get my daughter into the public school pre-k I was told she did not qualify because she could already speak English, and the program was mostly intended for Non-English speaking children. This was the same year MY school taxes were hiked enough to raise my mortgage 45 dollars a month... One of the selling points to us was that there would be a public pre-k made available. So now I can no longer support that thought process. I am paying into a program that my own child can not take part in because she is an English speaking citizen. However I did not have the money to put her in a private Pre-K so she suffered directly due to this problem. At some point you just have to say sorry but it is me or you and you got to go or do it right.

    We have homeowners associations fining people for flying the American flag because people from other nations might get offended. F*CK THAT SH*T!!!! You chose to come to this country because it was better than yours. Point blank you can't argue that Mr. Illegal. You better fly our fuggin flag or fuggin go home if you are that loyal to your country.

    Some kids were sent home from college for wearing a tshirt with the American flag on it on Cinco de Mayo that is May 5th for those of you not living in the land between nations. IE any sothern border state. You don't have to take my word for it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36981179...o_bay_area_ca/ That is truly disgusting and I GUARANTY no Hispanic or any other nationality will be sent home for wearing a shirt with their country flag on it on Independence Day.

    We used to be proud to be Americans, we didn't apologize for it. We stood alpha male at the top of the hill and said hey I am no bully but I AM THE BADDEST SUM BITCH AROUND!!! Don't mess with me and I wont mess with you. You need my help I will come over there and support you and not ask for anything in return.

    Now it is Oh no, I am so sorry did I offend you when I said Mexican instead of Hispanic or Hispanic instead of Latino. Oh you are an African American the fug you are!!!! You are an American with dark skin! Same with Latin Americans sorry get over it your not Latin American you are American damn it!!! We all need to grow some testes and get over it. I don't say I am a Spanish American because I am of Spanish decent. I am a proud ass American who will fight for my country and what it used to stand for, and what I hope it stands for again some day.

    Do I think that this is the BEST way to handle this? No I don't but I AM ECSTATIC that something is actually being done. The pendulum swings far right and far left before finding its resting place in the middle ground. The complacency was one side, and this is the other side of that swing. It means things are in motion... That is what excites me. We need some kinetic energy followed by inertia with this situation. In other words the ball needs to keep rolling, we can change the speed or direction to some degree but at least the pendulum is no longer resting on the side of complacency.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  19. BCMJAMES

  20. What do you think about a nationalized ID card for all citizens as a solution?
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  21. Quote Originally Posted by raulob72 View Post
    BCMJAMES
    Yes sir?

  22. Love the Tea Party, love the Arizona bill, im a Houston resident, and its about time somebody starts to enforce the law..

  23. F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!

  24. Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!
    Hate? Dude, shut the f*ck up. It's not hate, racism, or anything other than doing what is right, and that is for those illegal border-jumpers to abide by OUR laws and PAY F*CKING TAXES!

    You can't enter any other country illegally why is it racism when you do it here!
    Let me see if I have this correct...
    -IF YOU CROSS THE MEXICAN BORDER YOU PAY A FINE AND ARE DEPORTED, THE SECOND TIME YOU ARE JAILED FOR UP TO 10 YEARS.
    -IF YOU CROSS THE FRENCH BORDER YOU ARE FINED,JAILED AND THEN DEPORTED.
    -IF YOU ENTER ENGLAND ILLEGALLY YOU ARE FINED 10,000 AND DEPORTED
    IF YOU ENTER ITALY ILLEGALLY YOU ARE FINED 13000 EURO AND DEPORTED
    - IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

    - IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET.............................. ..
    1 - A JOB,
    2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
    3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
    4 - WELFARE,
    5 - FOOD STAMPS,
    6 - CREDIT CARDS,
    7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
    8 - FREE EDUCATION,
    9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
    10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,
    11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
    12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT.
    Please excuse the Caps Lock, I simply copy/pasted

  25. Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!
    They are called "illegal" immigrants for a reason. Let me repeat, "ILLEGAL."

    "By golly Johnny does that mean against the law?" "You bet your ass Billy."

    Are drug dealers breaking the law? Yes. Are illegals breaking the law? Yes.

    We go after drug dealers because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? I'm sure you don't.

    We go after illegals because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? Yes.....

    What the hell?

    Law is law. Don't pick and choose which laws to follow.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    They are called "illegal" immigrants for a reason. Let me repeat, "ILLEGAL."

    "By golly Johnny does that mean against the law?" "You bet your ass Billy."

    Are drug dealers breaking the law? Yes. Are illegals breaking the law? Yes.

    We go after drug dealers because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? I'm sure you don't.

    We go after illegals because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? Yes.....

    What the hell?

    Law is law. Don't pick and choose which laws to follow.
    He must be an illegal. I'm tired of the, "Hate card," the, "Racism card," and any other label that takes away from the true meaning - "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU!"

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    He must be an illegal. I'm tired of the, "Hate card," the, "Racism card," and any other label that takes away from the true meaning - "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU!"
    Bro we're on the same page but I have one problem with what you said.... You don't want them using the hate and racism card but You yourself are giving them a reason to play those cards.

    When you say something like "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU" or "Learn English and Pay Taxes Border Moneys" Like it says down on your tags thing.........red flags go up and the racism and hate cards would come out because that definitely sounds like hate bro and they would be DAMN justified in using those hate cards towards what you say.

    You're giving them a reason to use those cards.

    Don't give them reasons to use the hate and racism cards. I would believe one would be justified in using those cards if they read what you said.

  28. Exactly.

    Here is the thing, if they were actually good honest "illegals" then why haven't they taken the time to become good honest American Citizens? There is no such thing (isn't it an oxymoron to be a Honest Criminal?) as being good, honest, and illegal....

    If you are in the states and illegal then it is because you have a reason to be, whether it is tax evasion, illegal activities, etc you are illegal and should not be granted anything until you have taken the time to be right. I don't give 2 sh!ts if you have a friend who is "tectonically illegal" get his ass in gear and do it right or by golly some one should throw his ass back over the fence, they should be sure to throw your ass in jail as well for harboring a fugitive of the law, maybe you can make friends with the many illegals that are in the pen while you are at it

    This accounts to anyone no just the darker skin toned people.... If Russian is here illegally, and running an underground drug facility then reaping all the benefits 100% tax free, well then by golly send him packing... The mafia is more productive for our country than 10 illegals, you know why? Because at least they take the time to have a "buffer" up and pay taxes, hell if all they pay is $1 on every $1000 they make that is more than any illegal out there as they don't pay a penny and instead soak up what money should be going to needing American citizens, for schooling, medical, etc....

    There is nothing wrong with saying to pay taxes, now throwing a derogatory term in there that could point to racism is, saying learn English, well that can go for alot more than just Hispanics. Try going to a gas station in China Town here in Houston, you would think you were in Vietnam. Also as to using a hate card if someone is Illegal they should have no justifications in anything at all, regardless if the person is coming off racist or not, that's almost as bad as giving rights to the POW's that are trying kill our troops, our civilians, and our way of life...

    My family (pretty much both sides, mom and pops) came to America around the time of the first world war, from Germany (great great grandparents, etc) Both of my my grandfathers (moms dad, and dads dad) spoke German fluently but had chosen not to pass it down to their children. Instead of trying to change an existing country they had moved to, they decided to learn and adapt themselves to the country...

    Is this really a hard thing to comprehend to some people?

    As I like to say..."If you don't believe in immigration control, go find a Native American and ask him what he would have done if he could do it over....."

  29. Hey Sam is Ham, keep your comments on the boards and stop sending me disrespectfull pm's, what ever you have to say about my post let's just keep it on this thread, i understand that if you knew better you'll do better, but come on man that was totally un-called for seriously.
    "He who angers you own's you"
    Remember that son......................GOD BLESS YOU........................... ....................
    And if i'm correct Arizona was actually Mexico so how are they illegal immigrants, even the name Arizona is an Aztec Indian name, so do the knowledge and check your history books, Mr. Sam is Ham
    How can their be justice over stolen land?
    And from the pm you'd sent me you called me an illegal border monkey, so i take it you must be european, so go back to your mother land, cause in all actuality texas and arizona is or actually was Mexico also until yall invaded there land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    so who's really the illegal immigrants????????HHHHmmmmmmmm mmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then you got the nerve to talk about unpaid medical expenses, but when yall arrived yall bought nothing but diseases with yall, and who took care of you and treated you? The mexicans, so go back to your country with the lacking resources, cause thats another reason why you invaded their land cause you lacked the resources, to live like they did, Pilgrim.
    By the way thanks for the wheat, barley, oats , rye, fire-water and guns.
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