The New Arizona Immigration Law (SB1070) in Arizona

Page 3 of 9 First 123458 ... Last
  1. New Member
    bmcjames's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    488
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    43.08%

    Quote Originally Posted by raulob72 View Post
    BCMJAMES
    Yes sir?

  2. New Member
    AM360's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    49
    Rep Power
    82
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    59.81%

    Love the Tea Party, love the Arizona bill, im a Houston resident, and its about time somebody starts to enforce the law..
  3. Senior Member
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,085
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    16.35%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!
    •   
       

  4. Banned
    Sam I Am's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    1.63%

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!
    Hate? Dude, shut the f*ck up. It's not hate, racism, or anything other than doing what is right, and that is for those illegal border-jumpers to abide by OUR laws and PAY F*CKING TAXES!

    You can't enter any other country illegally why is it racism when you do it here!
    Let me see if I have this correct...
    -IF YOU CROSS THE MEXICAN BORDER YOU PAY A FINE AND ARE DEPORTED, THE SECOND TIME YOU ARE JAILED FOR UP TO 10 YEARS.
    -IF YOU CROSS THE FRENCH BORDER YOU ARE FINED,JAILED AND THEN DEPORTED.
    -IF YOU ENTER ENGLAND ILLEGALLY YOU ARE FINED 10,000 AND DEPORTED
    IF YOU ENTER ITALY ILLEGALLY YOU ARE FINED 13000 EURO AND DEPORTED
    - IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
    - IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

    - IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET.............................. ..
    1 - A JOB,
    2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
    3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
    4 - WELFARE,
    5 - FOOD STAMPS,
    6 - CREDIT CARDS,
    7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
    8 - FREE EDUCATION,
    9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
    10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,
    11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
    12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT.
    Please excuse the Caps Lock, I simply copy/pasted
  5. Banned
    Sam I Am's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    1.63%

    Here, join the FaceBook for this issue: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...18640654828966
  6. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    F!$CK Arizona's gov't, that's some real BS what they're doing. Stop the hate, love is love!
    They are called "illegal" immigrants for a reason. Let me repeat, "ILLEGAL."

    "By golly Johnny does that mean against the law?" "You bet your ass Billy."

    Are drug dealers breaking the law? Yes. Are illegals breaking the law? Yes.

    We go after drug dealers because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? I'm sure you don't.

    We go after illegals because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? Yes.....

    What the hell?

    Law is law. Don't pick and choose which laws to follow.
  7. Banned
    Sam I Am's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    1.63%

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    They are called "illegal" immigrants for a reason. Let me repeat, "ILLEGAL."

    "By golly Johnny does that mean against the law?" "You bet your ass Billy."

    Are drug dealers breaking the law? Yes. Are illegals breaking the law? Yes.

    We go after drug dealers because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? I'm sure you don't.

    We go after illegals because they break the law.. Do you have a problem with that? Yes.....

    What the hell?

    Law is law. Don't pick and choose which laws to follow.
    He must be an illegal. I'm tired of the, "Hate card," the, "Racism card," and any other label that takes away from the true meaning - "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU!"
  8. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    He must be an illegal. I'm tired of the, "Hate card," the, "Racism card," and any other label that takes away from the true meaning - "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU!"
    Bro we're on the same page but I have one problem with what you said.... You don't want them using the hate and racism card but You yourself are giving them a reason to play those cards.

    When you say something like "Learn English, Pay Taxes, sit down and STFU" or "Learn English and Pay Taxes Border Moneys" Like it says down on your tags thing.........red flags go up and the racism and hate cards would come out because that definitely sounds like hate bro and they would be DAMN justified in using those hate cards towards what you say.

    You're giving them a reason to use those cards.

    Don't give them reasons to use the hate and racism cards. I would believe one would be justified in using those cards if they read what you said.
  9. New Member
    bmcjames's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    488
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    43.08%

    Exactly.

    Here is the thing, if they were actually good honest "illegals" then why haven't they taken the time to become good honest American Citizens? There is no such thing (isn't it an oxymoron to be a Honest Criminal?) as being good, honest, and illegal....

    If you are in the states and illegal then it is because you have a reason to be, whether it is tax evasion, illegal activities, etc you are illegal and should not be granted anything until you have taken the time to be right. I don't give 2 sh!ts if you have a friend who is "tectonically illegal" get his ass in gear and do it right or by golly some one should throw his ass back over the fence, they should be sure to throw your ass in jail as well for harboring a fugitive of the law, maybe you can make friends with the many illegals that are in the pen while you are at it

    This accounts to anyone no just the darker skin toned people.... If Russian is here illegally, and running an underground drug facility then reaping all the benefits 100% tax free, well then by golly send him packing... The mafia is more productive for our country than 10 illegals, you know why? Because at least they take the time to have a "buffer" up and pay taxes, hell if all they pay is $1 on every $1000 they make that is more than any illegal out there as they don't pay a penny and instead soak up what money should be going to needing American citizens, for schooling, medical, etc....

    There is nothing wrong with saying to pay taxes, now throwing a derogatory term in there that could point to racism is, saying learn English, well that can go for alot more than just Hispanics. Try going to a gas station in China Town here in Houston, you would think you were in Vietnam. Also as to using a hate card if someone is Illegal they should have no justifications in anything at all, regardless if the person is coming off racist or not, that's almost as bad as giving rights to the POW's that are trying kill our troops, our civilians, and our way of life...

    My family (pretty much both sides, mom and pops) came to America around the time of the first world war, from Germany (great great grandparents, etc) Both of my my grandfathers (moms dad, and dads dad) spoke German fluently but had chosen not to pass it down to their children. Instead of trying to change an existing country they had moved to, they decided to learn and adapt themselves to the country...

    Is this really a hard thing to comprehend to some people?

    As I like to say..."If you don't believe in immigration control, go find a Native American and ask him what he would have done if he could do it over....."
  10. Senior Member
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,085
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    16.35%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Hey Sam is Ham, keep your comments on the boards and stop sending me disrespectfull pm's, what ever you have to say about my post let's just keep it on this thread, i understand that if you knew better you'll do better, but come on man that was totally un-called for seriously.
    "He who angers you own's you"
    Remember that son......................GOD BLESS YOU........................... ....................
    And if i'm correct Arizona was actually Mexico so how are they illegal immigrants, even the name Arizona is an Aztec Indian name, so do the knowledge and check your history books, Mr. Sam is Ham
    How can their be justice over stolen land?
    And from the pm you'd sent me you called me an illegal border monkey, so i take it you must be european, so go back to your mother land, cause in all actuality texas and arizona is or actually was Mexico also until yall invaded there land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    so who's really the illegal immigrants????????HHHHmmmmmmmm mmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then you got the nerve to talk about unpaid medical expenses, but when yall arrived yall bought nothing but diseases with yall, and who took care of you and treated you? The mexicans, so go back to your country with the lacking resources, cause thats another reason why you invaded their land cause you lacked the resources, to live like they did, Pilgrim.
    By the way thanks for the wheat, barley, oats , rye, fire-water and guns.
  11. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    Hey Sam is Ham, keep your comments on the boards and stop sending me disrespectfull pm's, what ever you have to say about my post let's just keep it on this thread, i understand that if you knew better you'll do better, but come on man that was totally un-called for seriously.
    "He who angers you own's you"
    Remember that son......................GOD BLESS YOU........................... ....................
    And if i'm correct Arizona was actually Mexico so how are they illegal immigrants, even the name Arizona is an Aztec Indian name, so do the knowledge and check your history books, Mr. Sam is Ham
    How can their be justice over stolen land?
    And from the pm you'd sent me you called me an illegal border monkey, so i take it you must be european, so go back to your mother land, cause in all actuality texas and arizona is or actually was Mexico also until yall invaded there land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    so who's really the illegal immigrants????????HHHHmmmmmmmm mmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Then you got the nerve to talk about unpaid medical expenses, but when yall arrived yall bought nothing but diseases with yall, and who took care of you and treated you? The mexicans, so go back to your country with the lacking resources, cause thats another reason why you invaded their land cause you lacked the resources, to live like they did, Pilgrim.
    Stick to the facts at hand. We all know it does not matter who "owned" the land but who "owns" it. America owns it now, and that's just the way history played out (it does not matter how or why history played out that way, these are the cards everyone was dealt due to decisions made by past people). America owns this land now and that's the situation at hand and it's always about the situation at hand. No politics is decided upon past events, political decisions are made about current affairs. It's about what is here and now and in front of our face. America owns the land and there are trespassers. That is the current situation. Stick to the current situation.

    There may have been a time when we were trespassers into Mexican land, but that is not the case now. Due to the fact that the land is American property now based on history beyond any of our control, any illegal immigrants are the trespassers.

    If your father owned a company and left it to you, but you ended up losing it to another party--the other party now owns that company. You don't have any rights to that company JUST because your father or you owned it in the past. It's about current affairs.
  12. New Member
    bmcjames's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    488
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    43.08%

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    By the way thanks for the wheat, barley, oats , rye, fire-water and guns.
    I think you forgot a few other things the Europeans brought over....
    Lets not forget:
    Religion
    More or less a unified Economy
    Education
    Technology
    Medicines

    All of which the natives didn't posses... In the event of that immigration many people would unanimously claim it as a improvement...

    Through technicality nobody of any origin is Native, there was always someone there before you however when law is established and order is set some order must be intact (law) so to keep a certain peace.
  13. Banned
    Sam I Am's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    1.63%

    Blah Blah Blah.

    I see a few of you need to take a writing course... Jesus.
  14. Senior Member
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,085
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    16.35%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    I think you forgot a few other things the Europeans brought over....
    Lets not forget:
    Religion
    More or less a unified Economy
    Education
    Technology
    Medicines

    All of which the natives didn't posses... In the event of that immigration many people would unanimously claim it as a improvement...

    Through technicality nobody of any origin is Native, there was always someone there before you however when law is established and order is set some order must be intact (law) so to keep a certain peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Stick to the facts at hand. We all know it does not matter who "owned" the land but who "owns" it. America owns it now, and that's just the way history played out (it does not matter how or why history played out that way, these are the cards everyone was dealt due to decisions made by past people). America owns this land now and that's the situation at hand and it's always about the situation at hand. No politics is decided upon past events, political decisions are made about current affairs. It's about what is here and now and in front of our face. America owns the land and there are trespassers. That is the current situation. Stick to the current situation.

    There may have been a time when we were trespassers into Mexican land, but that is not the case now. Due to the fact that the land is American property now based on history beyond any of our control, any illegal immigrants are the trespassers.

    If your father owned a company and left it to you, but you ended up losing it to another party--the other party now owns that company. You don't have any rights to that company JUST because your father or you owned it in the past. It's about current affairs.
    bmcjames, you brung up religion as if it were a good thing, and yes the people of the land had their own education, medicine, unity,and technology
    and chocolatemilk, it depends on how they lost the company, but i suppose thats all water under the bridge now, right?
    1Cor.13:4-10
  15. New Member
    bmcjames's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    488
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    43.08%

    Currently at least 88% of the world wide population believes in "god"/religion as being a good thing. I take it you are part of the uniformed 12%?

    Maybe some people evolved from a bunch of inbred monkey's however I was created by my intelligent/divine/deity/god/ my lord and savior...

    It is no argument that Native Americans/Mexico/majority of South American went through a total downfall due to European Colonization of the "Americas" however do remember that the original European settlers where not your typical "white" at all, they were infact Spanish. In fact when it comes to "in Mexico/south America" events all of the major atrocities were preformed under Spanish rule not English. You don't have to watch Pirates of the Caribbean to know who Cortez was I hope (assuming you paid any attention to school).

    Yes the immigrants of yesterday were a terrible thing to happen to the people. It was a complete downfall of a civilization and that is why we are trying to prevent the immigrants of tomorrow for destroying what we have now....

    I mean we are the easiest most welcoming country int he world. Is it really so hard to ask that you just take the time to sign the paper and abide by our laws to become legal? All that is asked is you abide by the laws and uphold the binding documentation you signed (pledge your allegiance to America). I mean really if your Canadian, Venezuelan, British, Mexican, etc country is so much better that you believe you should be waving the countries flag high and mighty then maybe you should just go back to it....

    Everyone has the right to leave if you don't like what is already in place.....
  16. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Wow miss this for two days and alot has happened. Before I even read through it all I will address Mr. Kleen, since he adressed me directly, and I have alot of love for team AI.

    I agree with points, disagree with points as well. Similar to me and timmmah, we are close on our feelings but the difference lies in execution.

    As for the always being able to ask for ID, the problem is, when doesnt this become enough? A perfect example is the case I liked to before. The man provided a CDL license and was able to give his social security to an officer. Still ended up in a jail cell until a birth certificate could be presented.

    On the story of education and your daughter. Its situations like this that disturb me as well. I never advocate special treatment of immigrants. I even become upset at the whole press 2 for spanish deal. I understand businesses don't want to cut themselves off from a potential sale because they didnt cater to non english speaking people. But the fact that the government will be called out if they don't do it I dont agree with. I don't agree with anything affirmative action-ish either. This pissed me off when looking at colleges, and knowing that I can lose my position for ann acceptance to someone who is underqualified but fits thier quota. My belief is if you are making the effort to live here (legal or illegal, learn the language).

    The American Flag thing is ****ing retarded. I personally would beat the **** out of the vice principal that targeted the children. I know as someone who is a moderate liberal (self-defined) many conservatives as anti American, this simply is not true. This is America. This is the country we should be proud of, and I dont give a **** if it is the third coming of budha, I can show pride for being an American whenever I want.

    I could say I disagree with you on the your not, for example, african american but an American, but I think it is just I disagree with how it presented itself in text and think we actually agree on the subject. I don't tell people I am an Italian American. I am american. However, I do believe in preservation of culture and believe someone should embrace thier culture, while at the same time embracing themselves as an American. I am quite certain we are actually in agreement, I just think it sounded weird to me in text which is why I at first saw the disagreement.

    I do understand the swing is needed to get something done. I however still can't agree with the potential abuse that could come out of this situation. It is something I just simply cant bring myself to support.

    P.S. I knew the no hard feelings, we are all here for the same purpose, and as you mentioned an intellectual discussion can be very stimulating and even lead to some discoveries for ones self. And like I said, I can't hate on Team AI at all. Quite the crew you guys got going.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  17. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Law is law. Don't pick and choose which laws to follow.
    Questioning the law is what makes us American. We decided to take a step against the laws that were held over us to form this country. As I mentioned, these boards are loaded with people who have supported the use of ILLEGAL steroids, ILLEGAL drugs, etc... Just because something is a law doesnt mean it should be questioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    Here is the thing, if they were actually good honest "illegals" then why haven't they taken the time to become good honest American Citizens? There is no such thing (isn't it an oxymoron to be a Honest Criminal?) as being good, honest, and illegal.....
    Becoming legal is not an easy process. It costs alot of money and can take years and years to be complete. Add into this that some have difficulty understanding the application process and are often taken advantage of by people who are looking to assist them as they seek to do it legitly, and it is not an easy situation for most.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    If you are in the states and illegal then it is because you have a reason to be, whether it is tax evasion, illegal activities, etc you are illegal and should not be granted anything until you have taken the time to be right. I don't give 2 sh!ts if you have a friend who is "tectonically illegal" get his ass in gear and do it right or by golly some one should throw his ass back over the fence, they should be sure to throw your ass in jail as well for harboring a fugitive of the law, maybe you can make friends with the many illegals that are in the pen while you are at it
    Earlier you got a bit salty thinking that I was personally going after you with my response, which I wasn't, but now I do believe I am specifically being called out, since I think I am the only one who mentioned an illegal friend. My friend is from Guatemala. The reason he came to this country was because if you were not associated with gangs or assisting in drugs in his area (which he never associated with) your life was constantly in jeopardy. At a young age he remembers losing friends to violence, for which they did nothing to ask for, and young people who turned to carrying guns to make sure they could protect thier families. He knew this wasn't the life for him and he decided to do something about it. He came to America for the opportunity. He could work here and make money become something for himself. He came here, and began the legalization process (with a visa). On the paperwork, and after much money has been spent, it was discovered that the lawyer who was assisting him had made multiple mistakes as to his information, including not even labeling him as from the proper country (they labeled him a Mexican, which could not have been verified for obvious reasons -- and yes, he spoke perfect english). After having sunk in alot of his money for the legalization process, he was ****ed over. Now he works for his money, pays his taxes, has his own health care plan, etc. He speaks perfect english, not even an accent, and has never commited a crime (besides maybe a speeding ticket). He also has never taken a single hand out from anyone, hell the man is to proud to even have a friend buy him a drink at the bar. With his visa now expired, and only a small fraction of the necessary money to correct his legality status saved up so far, he could be deported if caught. This I am not ok with. The man is not a criminal. He came here, did everything as right as he could, and is now considered a criminal in the eyes of people like yourself. I simply can't agreee with this.

    He owns property as well, which I he pays for on time every time. He is not harboring in someone's basement, certainly not mine. I am no more responsible for harboring a criminal as you are for not turning in everyone on this site who you know is using AAS. As for the comment of wishing I was thrown in jail to make some illegal friends, I won't dignify it with a retaliation, rather just simply ask you to keep this conversation mature, which most here have not had any problems with. I also would ask not to insult a friend of mine by asking to "throw his ass back over the fence," but given your polar side of this argument, im sure that is a frivolous statement.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  18. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    Currently at least 88% of the world wide population believes in "god"/religion as being a good thing. I take it you are part of the uniformed 12%?
    The 88% includes groups that believe in voodoo, scientologists, believe thier political leaders are gods, worship aliens, have created thier own gods, people who bomb buildings for thier gods, murder for thier gods. Certainly I wouldn't refer to this 88% as "informed" in any sense of the word. We can choose to leave religion out of this political argument, but religion has caused nothing but holding back on scientific advances, arts, and intelligent thought since its origins (which are man made), and has been the cause of an extreme amount of violence throughout the world. We have religions willing to bomb those who disagree with them, religions thats leaders cover each others asses when they get caught molesting children, religions protesting stem cell research, which could lead to advancements in medicine beyond our wildest dreams, and more. I tip my hat to that "uniformed 12%"

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    Maybe some people evolved from a bunch of inbred monkey's however I was created by my intelligent/divine/deity/god/ my lord and savior....
    BMC, as much as I can see how maybe suresha is not handling this situation in a mature way at all, which can be detrimental to the argument, the fact that he has been called an inbred monkey (by you) and a border monkey (by sam I am). Both of you are becoming extremely detrimental to your own side of the argument, so as much as I think it is uncalled for, rude, and immature, I will simply smile to myself as you guys prove my point for me.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  19. New Member
    bmcjames's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    27
    Posts
    253
    Rep Power
    488
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    43.08%

    BMC, as much as I can see how maybe suresha is not handling this situation in a mature way at all, which can be detrimental to the argument, the fact that he has been called an inbred monkey (by you) and a border monkey (by sam I am). Both of you are becoming extremely detrimental to your own side of the argument, so as much as I think it is uncalled for, rude, and immature, I will simply smile to myself as you guys prove my point for me.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I guess I had the wrong choice of words. I was referring more to the evolution side idea saying that we "humanity" comes form a humanoid apelike aberration several hundreds of thousands of years vs creationism saying that god created man in his image. Perhaps I should have taken it back a couple hundred billion years to the primordial goo era when humanity was just a bunch of inbred ameba's...

    I will apologize for getting a bit kocky and rude in some areas. I think I am just sitting here and all this reflects on me and what it says is:
    What the hell is a bunch of meat heads arguing on the internet ever going to prove? I have made my point long ago and should have stopped there as have you so I will officially stop posting here as I should have earlier when I said I would.

    I stand by my vote as do you by yours. I was getting a bit engaged in this debate and happened to get a little flustered which with being 23 and thinking I know everything can kick me in my butt and prove me wrong from time to time lol


    It does go without saying that even though we may both agree to disagree our great country could not exist without a balance of different opinions. We are who we are because we are a collaboration of imbalances which some how end up balancing in the end (strangely enough lol). I didn't vote for the man in office yet I don't condemn him for his actions either. There are things about him that I do and don't like as there are things about McCain that I do and don't like.

    Officially signing out of this thread
    -James
  20. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcjames View Post
    What the hell is a bunch of meat heads arguing on the internet ever going to prove?
    Sadly our society is made up of misinformed opinions based on the political and social media. This is how we are misinformed and miscommunicate in the 21st century. We even pass legislation and elect politicians via this forum.
  21. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    . My friend is from Guatemala. The reason he came to this country was because if you were not associated with gangs or assisting in drugs in his area (which he never associated with) your life was constantly in jeopardy. At a young age he remembers losing friends to violence, for which they did nothing to ask for, and young people who turned to carrying guns to make sure they could protect thier families. He knew this wasn't the life for him and he decided to do something about it. He came to America for the opportunity.
    This is a very hard issue to debate against. Whether or not someone coming to America illegally is justified somehow because they lived in a bad community or country.

    The country "America" is represented by our "American governments." For example, "the president," to the rest of the worlds countries. The American government has laid down the laws about dealing with other countries. We have a system of rules and laws in place to prevent mass amounts of people from pouring into other countries. There is 1 billion people in India, and 2 billion in China--that alone makes up half of the worlds population. Are we gonna allow everyone who lives in a "bad" place to come here in America? No. We have borders like every other country on Earth that are there for a reason. Could you imagine a world where people are allowed to move wherever they wanted to move and settle there because they didn't like the old place?

    I would probably leave a crappy country too. But I would understand my role as a citizen within a country within a globe of other countries. I would know there is a system to moving between countries and if I got deported or jailed by the other countries police... That's the least I expect lol.

    My humanity says let them come. If I am not suffering from them being here, I don give a sh**. But I would not stop anyone from kicking them out and I would not hesitate to do it if it was my job. And if I experienced a "problem" such as lack of jobs, or whatnot because people are coming to the country of my citizenship because they do not like theirs.. My individual humanity would take a backseat to protect American humanity as a whole. Because we all know a "global humanity" does not exist in the real world.
  22. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900
  23. Senior Member
    raulob72's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  245 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,219
    Rep Power
    263805
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    27.4%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Is there any white people still living in TEXAS??LOL
  24. Diamond Member
    MrKleen73's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  204 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    41
    Posts
    15,896
    Rep Power
    4659249
    Level
    100
    Lv. Percent
    19.17%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Wow miss this for two days and alot has happened. Before I even read through it all I will address Mr. Kleen, since he adressed me directly, and I have alot of love for team AI.

    I agree with points, disagree with points as well. Similar to me and timmmah, we are close on our feelings but the difference lies in execution.

    As for the always being able to ask for ID, the problem is, when doesnt this become enough? A perfect example is the case I liked to before. The man provided a CDL license and was able to give his social security to an officer. Still ended up in a jail cell until a birth certificate could be presented.

    On the story of education and your daughter. Its situations like this that disturb me as well. I never advocate special treatment of immigrants. I even become upset at the whole press 2 for spanish deal. I understand businesses don't want to cut themselves off from a potential sale because they didnt cater to non english speaking people. But the fact that the government will be called out if they don't do it I dont agree with. I don't agree with anything affirmative action-ish either. This pissed me off when looking at colleges, and knowing that I can lose my position for ann acceptance to someone who is underqualified but fits thier quota. My belief is if you are making the effort to live here (legal or illegal, learn the language).

    The American Flag thing is ****ing retarded. I personally would beat the **** out of the vice principal that targeted the children. I know as someone who is a moderate liberal (self-defined) many conservatives as anti American, this simply is not true. This is America. This is the country we should be proud of, and I dont give a **** if it is the third coming of budha, I can show pride for being an American whenever I want.

    I could say I disagree with you on the your not, for example, african american but an American, but I think it is just I disagree with how it presented itself in text and think we actually agree on the subject. I don't tell people I am an Italian American. I am american. However, I do believe in preservation of culture and believe someone should embrace thier culture, while at the same time embracing themselves as an American. I am quite certain we are actually in agreement, I just think it sounded weird to me in text which is why I at first saw the disagreement.

    I do understand the swing is needed to get something done. I however still can't agree with the potential abuse that could come out of this situation. It is something I just simply cant bring myself to support.

    P.S. I knew the no hard feelings, we are all here for the same purpose, and as you mentioned an intellectual discussion can be very stimulating and even lead to some discoveries for ones self. And like I said, I can't hate on Team AI at all. Quite the crew you guys got going.

    I know you do not think I was speaking on AI's behalf but I do have to stress for all others reading this that I am speaking here on behalf of myself and perhaps should have checked the box regarding my signature not showing to avoid anyone thinking this was AI's stance. I am sure each person in the team may have a different opinion.

    That being said yes I think the political correct thing IE... Spanish American to use myself as the example we do agree on. It is definitely hard to determine in text if I was being a bigot or not; which is why I made sure to put myself in the equation. I wanted to show that I was not being a bigot but speaking more to the point of equality. I do think that people should embrace their heritage, or learn from it. IE, I don't think a German should become a hate monger bent on killing anyone other than their race.... My point is that in an effort to become PC people only further separate each other. Not one of my black friends or family calls themselves African American they call themselves black. They tend to think it cowardice to do so. Using another prettier word to discriminate is no better considering you still choose to point out the difference.

    Race in this argument really has no place. It is only a very small factor. Will it be used as motivation for some, yes. Does it change the need for something to be done no. Is something being done about something bad that IS happening on a VERY LARGE SCALE, more important than avoiding the possibility on a much smaller scale that being the minority of racists in position to act out on a very small scale. No.

    This is from WIKI answers which the original info came from a government website listed below.

    "There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.


    Projections data from the National Employment Matrix
    Police and Detectives

    First-line supervisors/managers of police and detectives
    2006 93,000
    2016 102,000

    Detectives and criminal investigators
    2006 106,000
    2016 125,000

    Fish and game wardens
    2006 8,000
    2016 8,000

    Police officers
    2006 654,000
    2016 724,000

    Police and sheriff's patrol officers
    2006 648,000
    2016 719,000

    Transit and railroad police
    2006 5,600
    2016 5,900 "

    So we can say since this is 2006 data, and the projection is for 2016 is 719,000, and 724,000 coming in at just over 1.4 million law enforcement agents. Only a VERY SMALL percentage would take a chance of losing their job by doing something stupid like that. Especially in this economy. There are an estimated 20 MILLION illegal immigrants that ARE here in the country illegally. Enforcing the immigration law is definitely justifiable and should have been done all along by the Federal Government.

    Now it has been said many Americans break the law, however there is one MAJOR difference. We are Americans, we are citizens of this country and can not be forcefully removed from the country, only imprisoned inside of it. Which costs government money, why should our government support any illegal alien with our governments money, Citizens tax dollars? There is no reason. Humanity is not a reason for our government to pay for them so they have better lives. We have humanitarion programs in most of the countries these people are coming from. Our government is here to serve the people of America not the people who came across the border illegally.

    Once again I ask why should an entire country choose allow the HUGE negative impact of illegals on the government programs and prison systems as well as public and private health care systems. Why should enforcing a law that has been on the Federal Books for a very long time not be done because there will be a few rights infringed on by those who abuse. Those who abuse will abuse no matter what. It is the given unfortunately. However I am not saying I am okay with any abuse of the system or people. Yet all of the 20 million illegal immigrants have both abused the system and violated every one of the United States citizens by taking money out of our programs that would be there for us if they were not so steadily consuming it. There is no portion of that that belongs to them.

    The gentlemen HereToStudy mentioned is one out of millions, am I okay with it? No not on a singular basis. However, Americans are detained all of the time, for all kinds of reasons that are unjust. It is an unavoidable part of the justice process. You are innocent until proven guilty but if you can't pay bail you are in jail until you prove your innocence. It is this way with all crimes. Justifiable Cause is not infalliable but it is the best we have got. In the lack of something better we have to go with the best we got not just choose not to act. The system is not and never will be perfect so the idealism that one in millions on occasion is the reason to stop a process that is guaranteed to make a positive impact on availability of government funds is not justifiable to me. However our law system has been using Justifiable Cause for as long as I can remember and that is honestly as good as it is going to get. Now the gentlemen has the opportunity to sue if he feels his civil rights were infringed upon. I don't pretend to know the extenuating circumstance and can not take my information directly from the media either. Most media has a very Democratic slant, the exception of course Fox which has a Republican slant. They ALL get ratings off of sensationalism so I have no idea if there were circumstances beyond those you mentioned, and you can't truly know either. We only know that we choose to believe or not believe what the media gives us as information. To say that we can't move forward to further benefit America's poor and unemployed CITIZENS for that small of a reason; is the equivalent of saying the government is going to take food to the homeless but then deciding not to because someone may be allergic to an ingredient so nobody gets to eat. Yes I am aware that is a severe comparison but so is this one man's short plight in the face of 20 million illegal immigrants taking hundreds of millions of tax dollars. I don't even want to get into how much they are costing ANY person paying Health Insurance Premiums directly. Now before you say there are Americans doing the same once again we can take care of our own let the other governments and citizens of the other

    One thing I have not seen mentioned while pointing out this one man as an example for why not to enforce this law is the 100s of thousands of examples of illegal immigrants that have been found guilty of violent, and or drug related crimes. There are many more examples on that side than the one of person here or there who will be inconvenienced by a situation as you pointed out. How about we leave the law in place and put a zero tolerance on bigotry in the law enforcement ranks? If you are found to exercise your bigotry on duty you lose your job and your pension. Now this does not mean that a cop can't go home and put on his pointy hat and jack off to Mississippi Burning or American X. He just can't let it effect his job or he loses it.





    Quote Originally Posted by raulob72 View Post
    Is there any white people still living in TEXAS??LOL
    Excuse me.... that is Pigment Deficient Americans... I find white offensive as my skin color is more of a cream sometimes tan or pink depending on my current level of pigment deficiency... HAHAHAHA Just fugging with ya...
  25. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I know you do not think I was speaking on AI's behalf but I do have to stress for all others reading this that I am speaking here on behalf of myself and perhaps should have checked the box regarding my signature not showing to avoid anyone thinking this was AI's stance. I am sure each person in the team may have a different opinion.
    I am sorry for leading to the confusion, it never crossed my mind I might imply that, was just giving shouts.

    You present a good argument, and as this thread has displayed there is no perfect answer, and as you pointed out, the real issue came from a lack of enforcement earlier. Unfortuantely the problem has grown dramatically, but can't simply be turned around with the snap of a finger. The issue is very complex.

    Again, as much as we don't 100% agree, we do see eye to eye on many points, and I particularly want to thank you for approaching the discussion in a mature and well thought out manner. You know you wrote that well when you get me slightly reshapping my thoughts.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  26. Diamond Member
    MrKleen73's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  204 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    41
    Posts
    15,896
    Rep Power
    4659249
    Level
    100
    Lv. Percent
    19.17%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I am sorry for leading to the confusion, it never crossed my mind I might imply that, was just giving shouts.

    You present a good argument, and as this thread has displayed there is no perfect answer, and as you pointed out, the real issue came from a lack of enforcement earlier. Unfortuantely the problem has grown dramatically, but can't simply be turned around with the snap of a finger. The issue is very complex.

    Again, as much as we don't 100% agree, we do see eye to eye on many points, and I particularly want to thank you for approaching the discussion in a mature and well thought out manner. You know you wrote that well when you get me slightly reshapping my thoughts.
    Thanks Man I take that as a high compliment. Have a good evening. I think I have said all I can here. Many great points have been made on both sides. Democracy Rules!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
  27. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    An Arizona State Senator has written a thoughtful and disturbing letter to the San Francisco Chronicle to explain the reasons behind the state’s new immigration law. I don’t see how anyone can argue with Arizona’s right to defend itself after reading this.


    I’m an Arizona state senator. I want to explain SB1070, Arizona’s immigration bill, which I voted for and which was just signed by Gov. Jan Brewer.

    Rancher Rob Krentz was shot to death on his ranch over a month ago and the shooter fled into Mexico. His family suspects a drug smuggler is responsible. I participated in a state Senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence that is, and has been, sweeping our border communities for years. From those hearings, we learned that:

    – The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border have been terrorized by the Mexican drug cartels and human smugglers. One rancher testified that 300 to 1,200 people cross his ranch every day, vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles, cutting down his fences and leaving trash. He testified that in the last two years, he has found 17 bodies and, alarmingly, several copies of the Quran.

    – Another rancher testified that drugs are brought across his ranch in a military-style operation, with guards armed to the teeth. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, a half-mile behind are the fully armed guards, a half-mile behind them are the drugs, and behind the drugs are more guards. This was not the only rancher we heard who talked about the drug trains.

    – One man told of two border crossers who came on his property, one of them shot in the back and the other in the arm by drug runners who forced them to carry drugs and then shot them. They frequently hear gunfire at night and are afraid to leave their ranch for fear of what the smugglers will do to it.

    The Border Patrol is not on the border. It has set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. The officers are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering.

    The national media do not report on these stories because it conflicts with their perception of the illegal immigration issue, which is based on an assumption that all illegal immigrants are law-abiding landscapers, maids and day laborers. While this is true in many cases, it is also true that our federal and state prisons and county jails are full of a disproportionate number of illegal immigrants who are committing a disproportionate number of crimes.

    The federal government has failed to do anything substantive to help border states like Arizona. We have been overrun by immigrants and, once they are here, the state has the burden of funding services that they use. With a $3.5 billion state budget deficit, we have many difficult decisions to make, and one of those decisions is that we don’t have the money to care for people who are not here legally.

    This has to stop. The border can be secured. We have the technology, we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming into the country, and they must come in an organized manner – legally, so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country.

    The national media has distorted, disfigured, and dismembered Senate Bill 1070 to the point that its reputation no longer bears any resemblance to what the bill actually does. Those who claim it is racist, or will foster a Nazi-state are themselves fostering unwarranted and irrational hysteria.

    The fact is that Senate Bill 1070 merely makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally. It also explicitly prohibits law enforcement officials from solely considering race, color, or national origin in determining immigration status.

    Many lawmakers who supported SB1070, including me, also support amnesty, but not until we secure the border. Failing to secure the border only moves us closer to some form of a North American Union with no borders and no national sovereignty. Many of those protesting SB1070 have called for just that.

    Maybe it is too late to save America. Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official, I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic.

    Living in America is not a right simply because you walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility. Freedom is not free.

    Sylvia Allen, a Republican from Snowflake, serves in the Arizona Senate.
  28. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    The Border Patrol is not on the border. It has set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. The officers are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering.
    No offense, I again read this as we know where the problem exists, but we can't correct that, so we will do something else. This senator clearly claims he is for amnesty. Put your money and enforcement at the border. Make it damn near impossible to get through. The residents that reside here should not be confused with drug cartels and thier trains of transportation.

    America's fundamental problem in this is the Drug War. America's drug appetite causes this big business from Mexico and puts the money into the pockets of those who will shoot on site to get thier drugs transported. The drug war is flawed, much in the way prohibition of alcohol was. Making a highly desired product illegal causes people to seek aquiring it in other fashions, such as turning to crime. (This works similarly for steroids, as a seller of steroids is a criminal drug distributor, fortunately, it does not have the demand of marijuana/etc. so violence is usually not associated with its transport.

    I do feel for the residents near the border. I can not imagine what life in that situation must be like. But rather then rallying up the immigrants working in the american version of a slave shop, tighten your borders, and stop people from coming in.

    Border enforcement should look like this:

    ------ = border xx = border enforcement .......... = blank space because the forums autoformat.



    xx xx xx xx xx xx xx
    xx xx xx xx xx xx xx
    ---------------------------

    Not this (as this article implies):


    xx.........................xx. ........................xx








    -----------------------------------------------------

    I am not a liberal in the sense of "let them all walk in," this is part of me defining myself as a moderate liberal. Enforce the border and make it hell to even attempt getting through. But the drug cartels residing in the states are the minorities of illegals, and every example of violence caused by illegals presented in this thread is drug cartels working on transportation, not freedom seekers seeking to work. (Which as much as we may hope - this will do NOTHING to stop)
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  29. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    No offense, I again read this as we know where the problem exists, but we can't correct that, so we will do something else. This senator clearly claims he is for amnesty. Put your money and enforcement at the border. Make it damn near impossible to get through. The residents that reside here should not be confused with drug cartels and thier trains of transportation.

    America's fundamental problem in this is the Drug War. America's drug appetite causes this big business from Mexico and puts the money into the pockets of those who will shoot on site to get thier drugs transported. The drug war is flawed, much in the way prohibition of alcohol was. Making a highly desired product illegal causes people to seek aquiring it in other fashions, such as turning to crime. (This works similarly for steroids, as a seller of steroids is a criminal drug distributor, fortunately, it does not have the demand of marijuana/etc. so violence is usually not associated with its transport.

    I do feel for the residents near the border. I can not imagine what life in that situation must be like. But rather then rallying up the immigrants working in the american version of a slave shop, tighten your borders, and stop people from coming in.
    There is more than a drug issue on our border. There are coyotes smuggling people into the country. There are weapons being smuggled into the country. There are illegals from around the globe, including terrorist groups who enter our contry illegally through theis state. It goes beyond just the war on drugs.

    It is a National border and a State border. The National Government has done nothing at all to secure our National border. We stand by and watch our National Government do nothing and then get criticized by the same for doing something to attemp to keep our city and state safe from the same.

    If the Federal government would get off their asses we would not have a state that is so infiltrated with this mess that we have to resort to local state legislation. Don't blame us for taking matters into our own hands. Blame the National government for ignoring the problem.

    "All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to stand by and do nothing."

    "Don't just do something, stand there."
  30. Primordial Performance Rep
    HereToStudy's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,362
    Rep Power
    235092
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    71.29%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    If the Federal government would get off their asses we would not have a state that is so infiltrated with this mess that we have to resort to local state legislation.
    ...and I completely agree.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy
  31. Advanced Member
    timmmah's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    797
    Rep Power
    509
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    76.28%

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    It is a National border and a State border. The National Government has done nothing at all to secure our National border. We stand by and watch our National Government do nothing and then get criticized by the same for doing something to attempt to keep our city and state safe from the same.
    Wow dude,
    This is it!


    STFU bleeding-heart-liberal-douches and realize AZ is the first state to stand up for America!
    If you think that the inflow of illegal Mexican citizens into AZ is not a danger to our society, let's go for a drive down to within 200 miles of the border and I will personally show you how southern AZ is turning into a third-world sh!thole of a country
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
  32. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

    Mexico's Immigration Law:

    Let's Try It Here at Home By J. Michael Waller, Citizens for a Constitutional Republic

    Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials haven't been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.

    That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

    At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it's noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:
    • in the country legally;
    • have the means to sustain themselves economically;
    • not destined to be burdens on society;
    • of economic and social benefit to society;
    • of good character and have no criminal records; and
    • contributors to the general well-being of the nation.


    The law also ensures that:
    • immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
    • foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
    • foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country's internal politics;
    • foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
    • foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
    • those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.


    Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens -- and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Poblacion, or General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country's immigration policy.

    It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

    If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.

    We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.

    Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:
    • Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)
    • Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)
    • Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)
    • The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)


    Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:
    • Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)
    • A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)
    • A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).


    Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:
    • Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)
    • Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)


    Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:
    • Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)
    • Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)
    • Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.


    Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,
    • "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)
    • Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
    • Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)


    Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
    • A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
    • Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)


    All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices versus its American immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.

    Let's call Mexico's bluff on its unwarranted interference in U.S. immigration policy. Let's propose, just to make a point, that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) member nations standardize their immigration laws by using Mexico's own law as a model.

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/lillpop022707.htm
  33. New Member
    airram479's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    384
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.4%

    K,i read it.WTF is the big deal....seriously. If i were to go to Mexico do you think they are going to just let me walk into there country without some sort of documentation to state i am who i say i am...It would be no different anywhere else either. If you are here illegally,that was your choice..no hard feeling's about now,we should have closed shop a long f-cking time ago. And don't even get me started on how we need the Mexi's to do this or that,BS..The people without work will have to swallow some pride and finally admit that they are not beyond doing anything even if they have to take a pay cut,and shovel sh!t for awhile..got to put food in your tummy right?? How about all of these lazy-ass teenager's that don't want to do nothing,expecting mommy and daddy to give them the world??And yet we still ponder"Where are all the jobs??"..geez it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
  34. New Member
    50cal's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    58
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    25.33%

    Wow, ok I have just finished reading the replies and I will try to discuss all of the problems and concerns associated with immigration including myths and facts. So here we go....the argument that illegal aliens do the jobs that americans wont do is absurd. Americans build bridges, collect garbage, clean sewers and much worse. Have you ever seen the show Dirty Jobs? A more accurate argument would be that illegal aliens take the jobs that Americans can't do because employers wont pay minimum wage or provide reasonable benefits or safe working conditions. But it makes sense that if you flood the market with lots of cheap labor, wages go down. It has been shown that minorities and the poor are hit the hardest by illegal labor entering the markets. Relying on cheap labor also makes the businesses lazy. those who have illegal labor dont have to upgrade equipment, streamline processes, or deal with human resource issues because they are guaranteed high profits due to the unfairly low labor cost. If every illegal left the country tomorrow, we would still be building new homes and grow fruit and vegetables. The idea that if employers crack down on illegal workers then our economy will collapse because illegals keep things cheap....dont be fooled by those who say illegals contribute billions of dollars to our economy and take little from it. There wrong because many work off the books, earn low wages, and pay little or no taxes, send millions back to their home country, and use social services at a higher rate than american citizens. Illegals are 50% more likely to use welfare than citizens. They get free education, Medicaid, WIc, and food stamps. While illegals make up only 6% of the population, they account for almost 12% of our nation's poor. Yes illegals pay some taxes because they buy things. You cant live in this country without buying things and paying sales tax or even social security tax if they were lucky enough to steal someone''s social security number. Out nation spends more that 4.7 billion dollars a year on health care for illegals and California has been forced to close over 70 hospitals over the last 10 years alone. About 17% of all of those in federal prisons are illegal aliens. We are spending about 30 billion each year to educate illegal aliens in our schools. That money could be put to better use to figure out our miserable job at educating our own children. The problem is that those who come here to work and those who come here to kill are all using the same door. Law enforcement has admitted that they have no idea how many people are slipping into our border undetected. Almost 70% of illegals are mexican and our law enforcenemt simply cannot keep up. And by the way Ariznoa has the second highest kidnapping rate in the world...just behind Columbia. And I will just stop there. I got a lot of more!
  35. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Didn't bother to look up the facts 50 but if they're right you make a good case. Great point in the beginning about Americans not wanting to do some jobs tho. That's very true.
  36. Advanced Member
    julius kelp's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  208 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    762
    Rep Power
    520
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    52.86%

    did you see eric holder's response to the question of if he had read the bill yet? impressive.
  37. New Member
    50cal's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    58
    Level
    2
    Lv. Percent
    25.33%

    Yea.. Eric Holder who is the attorney general goes on abc, cbs, nbc, to do a interview and expresses his thoughts about the bill saying how it profiles based on racism. Later when asked by the senate about the bill, they asked him if he has read it, and he stumbles with a "i have not been presented with all the facts" BS. It is really scary when the US attorney general is expressing his feelings about a bill without even reading it first. That is not his job, thats what we have bloggers for. That behavior is irresponsible, the bill is only 10 pages long.
  38. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,713
    Rep Power
    986900

  39. Senior Member
    suresha's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,085
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    26
    Lv. Percent
    16.35%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by 50cal View Post
    Yea.. Eric Holder who is the attorney general goes on abc, cbs, nbc, to do a interview and expresses his thoughts about the bill saying how it profiles based on racism. Later when asked by the senate about the bill, they asked him if he has read it, and he stumbles with a "i have not been presented with all the facts" BS. It is really scary when the US attorney general is expressing his feelings about a bill without even reading it first. That is not his job, thats what we have bloggers for. That behavior is irresponsible, the bill is only 10 pages long.
    even if it were 20 pages, the bill is still based off racism to a large extent, period, accept it for what it is.
  40. Professional Member
    chocolatemilk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  207 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,804
    Rep Power
    9974
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    63.18%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by suresha View Post
    even if it were 20 pages, the bill is still based off racism to a large extent, period, accept it for what it is.
    Don't tell us it's based on racism. Tell us why it is based on racism...
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. President Obama's in Arizona
    By David Dunn in forum Politics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-19-2009, 12:44 PM
  2. arizona guarantee
    By warnerve in forum Sports Talk
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-17-2008, 08:24 PM
  3. SR 71 and a day above Arizona
    By Jayhawkk in forum General Chat
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-18-2006, 06:03 PM
  4. ALR in Arizona
    By rayballs03 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-02-2006, 12:35 PM
  5. A Wake-Up Call from Luke AFB in Arizona
    By RedwolfWV in forum General Chat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-26-2006, 08:45 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in