The New Arizona Immigration Law (SB1070) in Arizona

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    I guess that will be offset by the $$$ illegals cost us when they clog up hospital emergency departments for free healthcare.
    98% of the fees incurred from the births of children to illegal aliens in Arizona last year was funded by the state ACCHS department.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....


  2. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    98% of the fees incurred from the births of children to illegal aliens in Arizona last year was funded by the state ACCHS department.
    Source? I am sure it is high, but 98% seems a bit drastic. Even in states with limited population of illegal immigrants there are a bunch of child births on the state.
    Just inject.
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  3. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    This is not about Mexicans though, ironically, the Mexicans see to think they have a monopoly on it.

    Illegal Immigrants.

    The Mexican border is a freeway for illegal immigrants of all ethnicity.
  4. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    "Press 1 for English"
  5. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    did anyone know that arizona is the world capitol for kidnappings?
    Incorrect. The kidnapping capital of the US.


    Human smuggling makes Phoenix kidnapping capital of U.S.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Source? I am sure it is high, but 98% seems a bit drastic. Even in states with limited population of illegal immigrants there are a bunch of child births on the state.
    http://www.bordercounties.org/vertic...9976DC1%7D.PDF Here's a link to a site with data that states that 25% of all unpaid hospital costs are from Illegals less than 10% of the population is Illegals, that means an illegal is 2 and a half times more likely to not pay his hospital bill than a legal citizen

    Sorry I can't find the site I saw with the Info on the births to illegals, but I will.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  7. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I think you put to much faith into police. I am not mr. OMG **** THE POLICE YO. These men keep life in America livable, but to say that they don't let thier racial ideals play into thier job, some worse then others, is crazy.
    If you have ever dealt with a poorer population, its not entirely unwarranted. Tellin it like it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    I guess that will be offset by the $$$ illegals cost us when they clog up hospital emergency departments for free healthcare.
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    98% of the fees incurred from the births of children to illegal aliens in Arizona last year was funded by the state ACCHS department.
    Dont forget that all their children are now U.S. Citizens. Texas has tripled their budget percentage wise to pay for all the illegals and mexicans that cant afford healthcare, welfare, and other social programs in South Texas. But dammit, those people vote too, so its ok.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    a site with data that states that 25% of all unpaid hospital costs are from Illegals less than 10% of the population is Illegals.
    So 75% of unpaid medical bills are from legal citizens? Seems like its an overall health care problem, which, I presume most of you are against any reform as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    If you have ever dealt with a poorer population, its not entirely unwarranted. Tellin it like it is.
    I have lived and will be moving back into the city of chicago in June, and not exactly the best area. So I have seen poverty, at a different level, but poverty non the less. But to think that its a poor thing is side swipping the point. This is a race thing, and always has been in America. It is the same reason why I am very likely to get off for a major crime as compared to a minority.

    A white kid can shoot up a school and we blame video games. If an illegal did the same, it would be of national concern of how these "border jumpers" are destroying our country.
    Just inject.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    "Press 1 for English"
    word.

    i love it when i go to my ATM machine and it askes me for english or spanish

  10. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I have lived and will be moving back into the city of chicago in June, and not exactly the best area. So I have seen poverty, at a different level, but poverty non the less. But to think that its a poor thing is side swipping the point. This is a race thing, and always has been in America. It is the same reason why I am very likely to get off for a major crime as compared to a minority.

    A white kid can shoot up a school and we blame video games. If an illegal did the same, it would be of national concern of how these "border jumpers" are destroying our country.
    Those two things are entirely unrelated. Its funny, last friday a deputy was shot by an illegal in Arizona. But **** it man, lets let everyone in. If you werent a moron, youd be aware of the violence and crime at the border, as well as the complete drain that illegals are. Secure the borders, enforce the laws, reward legal immigrants and stop slapping them in the face with talk of amnesty for those who chose to break the law. Keep working hard to make this into a race thing.

    Tell you what, I think states should be allowed to put it to a vote and decide if they will become a new safe haven for the illegals here. All you sympathyzers will be shutting up very quickly.

  11. To be honest with you all, it sickens me to know that jobs are being given to illegal immigrants over an American (no matter what race, background, etc). I have a guy that works for me that went through the proper channels to become a legal citizen of this Country. It was not easy, but he did it. He is proud to call himself an American, and detests those who enter illegally, as well as those who hurt our systems. Here's the funny part: he carries a SOCOM-II and protects the border now. It is part of my daily routine; keep illegals out.

  12. My solution to the border problem in AZ is simple! Land mines.....375 yards of land mines.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Those two things are entirely unrelated. Its funny, last friday a deputy was shot by an illegal in Arizona.
    And 100s of cops have been killed by criminal legal citizens. This doesn't support the argument, and I will again refer to the white kids shooting up schools comparison. It is noted as proof based on his illegal status, however, if it was a legal citizen, it would have been just a sad story, instead its a "border jumper" problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    But **** it man, lets let everyone in.
    I never said this should be done, but to demand paperwork of anyone (*cough* those of color that fit the profile) for no reason (which they would be allowed to do) is a rights violation. My mom is a legal citizen after moving here from Italy previous to my birth, she does not walk around with her paperwork, and to demand it be shown on the spot would land her in jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    If you werent a moron
    Thanks for resorting to name calling, glad to know you are being a productive contributer to this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    youd be aware of the violence and crime at the border, as well as the complete drain that illegals are. Secure the borders, enforce the laws, reward legal immigrants
    I understand the violence, I understand the drain. The problem is this a system that is systematically unamerican. If an illegal is arrested on unrelated charges, and is then proven illegal, send them off. But to have the ability to walk up to someone, who could be a citizen, and demand proof, is not the way to enforce this. Put stronger protection on the border, not those in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    and stop slapping them in the face with talk of amnesty for those who chose to break the law. Keep working hard to make this into a race thing.
    I love how a site that has a very strong basis on the use of AAS, as well as many self professed users of AAS, in addition to talks of marijuana smoking (don't believe me - search it), or that promotes the use of prescription grade chemicals (SERMs) for non prescribed patients, can be so "Lets enforce the law" when it doesn't pertain to them. Any person here who has never broken a law raise your hand. The rest of you, off to jail. Since this thread originally started with a mention of a christian nation, or something to that extent (I am non religious btw), I think it goes something like "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone?" In the previously mentioned examples, these were for personal pleasure, now imagine if you had the option to break the law (non violently entering another country) to work a job that Americans are more then willing to hire you for, at minimum wage and are able to provide food for your child. Not all illegals are throat slashers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Keep working hard to make this into a race thing.
    ...because I am sure a British immigrant who has outstayed his visa in Arizona is ****ting bricks....


    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Tell you what, I think states should be allowed to put it to a vote and decide if they will become a new safe haven for the illegals here. All you sympathyzers will be shutting up very quickly.
    There are no safe havens for immigrants anywhere. It is illegal, and these people know it. However, our economy is built on thier labor. This strict enforcement also doesnt take into account many other factors, such as a concern of local police departments:

    "He said the Arizona Immigration Law contributes to the division between the communities and can cause people, especially immigrants to stop reporting crimes."
    Source


    Now I don't agree with the tone of the following article, because it occured previous to the law actually being enforced, however, after getting passed (If I am correct - I may not be). However, this is what happens when a law like this is allowed. A citizen, with legal paperwork, ends up in jail. So much for no "big government," huh guys?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/rich...on-law-boycott
    Just inject.
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  14. As someone who is first generation in this country, this issue is very close to me. Besides being from NY

    At the end of the day, my father (along with millions of others before and after him) did it correctly. It was very important to him to become a citizen. He worked hard for it, and was quite proud of it. He became a citizen just prior to the major onset of Vietnam and was later drafted. He was proud (not thrilled however) about going in, but failed the physical.

    The fact is, a tremendous amount of money is spent on illegal immigrants. If, however, they want to become citizens, I for one would welcome it. No one has the right to stop the citizenship process. They just HAVE TO DO IT!
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I presume most of you are against any reform as well.
    Don't presume or assume too much. A less biased (clouded) outlook toward the people you are communicating with makes for a more interesting and productive discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I never said this should be done, but to demand paperwork of anyone (*cough* those of color that fit the profile) for no reason (which they would be allowed to do) is a rights violation. My mom is a legal citizen after moving here from Italy previous to my birth, she does not walk around with her paperwork, and to demand it be shown on the spot would land her in jail.
    Have you read the bill? The officer has to check the person's status through U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement or U.S. Border Protection in compliance with U.S. Federal Law (Section 13-1509 B.). If you are a citizen, I don't think you will need to be caring "paperwork" in order to do that. I don't think the officers will be rounding up "brown" people and sorting them out later.

    Help me understand how your civil rights are violated. The law requires "lawful contact" made by a law enforcement official. Is it a civil rights violation when an officer asks someone suspected of a crime for identification? I understand where you're going with that one, that officers will only profile certain people. That's happened before this law was passed and is not an immigration issue. Besides, I don't think law enforcement has the time or money to do citizenship checks on every Hispanic person that they see... Reasonable cause will need to be used for this to be successful.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    Don't presume or assume too much. A less biased (clouded) outlook toward the people you are communicating with makes for a more interesting and productive discussion.
    You are absolutely correct, and I apologize for generalizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mass_69 View Post
    ... Reasonable cause will need to be used for this to be successful.
    This is assuming cops follow the rules, do everything as they should, and have no personal racial tensions. But as my link pointed out, this isn't how it will play out. A man, provided a CDL license and his social security number, was still arrested because he did not provide enough. This man was a citizen, but was treated like an animal and thrown in a cell.

    It's only a matter of time before a false accusation happens to someone with money. At that point, this will become a supreme court issue and will be cause a much further political debate.

    Another issue that WILL arise out of all of this is the effect on local businesses. I feel this commenter/blogger states it pretty accurately:
    http://trueslant.com/erikkain/2010/0...tt-ever-could/

    I also give credit to the balls of the Pheonix suns, or shall I say the los suns:
    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...s-jerseys.html
    Just inject.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    So 75% of unpaid medical bills are from legal citizens? Seems like its an overall health care problem, which, I presume most of you are against any reform as well.
    Let's say for example that there is $1billion in unpaid hospital bills for a year.
    There are 4,000,000 people in Maricopa county
    There are 400,000 Illegals in Maricopa county

    of the 3,600,000 citizens, there is 750,000,000 in unpaid bills
    that's an average of $208.00 a citizen in unpaid bills

    of the 400,000 illegals, there is 250,000,000 in unpaid bills
    that's an average of $625.00 an illegal in unpaid bills

    Now if the Illegals had a median wage that of three times the citizen wage, their contribution(taxes,consumerism ,donations,etc...) would sufficiently "shore up" the economy in AZ even though they don't do things like pay their hospital bills.
    We both know an illegals median income is a fraction of a citizens median income.
    This is only ONE example of how much it costs to have this "invaluable" labor source.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  18. Oh, and yes, I am against socialism or universal health care. Same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  19. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    This is only ONE example of how much it costs to have this "invaluable" labor source.
    So we are just going to ignore how this low cost labor has a very dramatic role in our economy?

    For example:
    If manufacturing for farming equipment goes up, cost of harvesters goes up, cost of packaging/sorting goes up (this is assuming that the replaced role of illegals would be filled with minimum wage paid legals - we understand that illegals usually make under minimum wage), then we can easily expect the price of product to go up. Ms. Soccer Mom now has to spend more on produce to feed her family, which in turn means she is spending less on make up, toys for the children, and other commodities. Now those companies have to start laying people off, because their sales are going down. Now those former employees have less money to put back into the economy, causing a bad trickle effect.
    This example shows only if illegals worked in the farming industry, which is untrue, they actually work throughout many different industries. So the effect would be 10 fold.

    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    Oh, and yes, I am against socialism or universal health care. Same thing.
    This is a discussion for a completely different thread. I was merely making a point, that the issues might not all be solved as easily as pointing at the illegals. It has been previously discussed on these forums, and I feel my opinion is an educated one on the subject. I am for a very powerful reform, and I am a current health insurance agent. But like I said, completely different thread.
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  20. If you think that cheaper labor drives down the cost of food, you haven't taken economics at a high-school level.
    The person working the cheapest gets the job,(that's usually the illegal) and the farmer sells his product for it's market value no matter what he pays for labor. The two really aren't related on the supply and demand curves.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....

  21. Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    If you think that cheaper labor drives down the cost of food, you haven't taken economics at a high-school level.
    The person working the cheapest gets the job,(that's usually the illegal) and the farmer sells his product for it's market value no matter what he pays for labor. The two really aren't related on the supply and demand curves.
    You can think that I don't understand economics as much as I can state that you may not understand the application of economics in the real world. It's one thing to understand text book concepts, its another to know how it applies in the real world. As a preface, I have graduated with a degree in business, and based on the grades received in economics, considered at one point a minor in it. But thats besides the point.

    In the example of farming, sure demand will require a certain cost. However, when the end product is forced, which it would be (and this is ignoring government subsidizing), to raise its price due to seeing an increase in cost in all matters related to creating the product, the company is placed into a bad situation. In most cases, many producing the goods will be forced to sell at a loss. This can only be sustained for so long before the product can no longer be considered profitable. This will cause many producing the goods (in this case crops) to simply leave the business. This is due to an economics term known as Profit Motive, which in name should be enough to explain how it works.

    Now this means we have fewer producers left on the market, those who due to reserves are able to withstand the low/zero profitability for a longer duration. Demand has remained constant, but now supply has taken a hit. This in turn will begin to raise the cost of the product (I won't explain supply vs. demand, since you originally stated it). This leads perfectly into my situation demonstrated earlier.

    Farming is a bad example, and was merely stated as a testament to the point as illegals work in many industries. The reason it is a bad example is due to being heavily government subsidized as well as having a large potential for import. Meaning if we can't produce the supply at the price demanded, then importation from countries that can offer lower wages to thier employees are iminenent. This too would cause an issue as now we are relying on other countries for even more, and with money leaving the country, our own economy becomes affected.

    Now I am sure that a common retaliation to this scenario is that Americans that are unemployed will gladly pick up the work even if it is under minimum wage, or at the wage paid to the illegal. Not true. Although some at the extreme poverty level will be forced to take such an offer, a concept known as Reservation Wage exists. Reservation Wage, is the lowest wage for which a person is willing to work, and is in balance with skills they have aquired or thier level of education. Most people in the workforce are capable enough that thier Reservation wage is above that paid to an illegal immigrant. You might also consider the effects of unions. Many skilled legal immigrants, particularly in lower income positions, will at some point seek to form a union, something that illegals do not put any effort into. A union will attempt to hold the wage above the market clearing rate, which in turn raises the costs of production. For an example of this, consider why it is sometimes cheaper to purchase produce at your local ethnic grocery store as compared to a Chain grocery store (this will be more obvious to those in urban environments). The reason being that even though the chain has much greater buying power (able to purchase in bulk at a discount), they also pay thier employees a higher wage resulting in a raise in prices to the end user. The local ethnic grocery store, with no union wages established, is able to keep wages low allowing profitability at a lower sale price.

    I can keep going if you would like, but I feel we are side swipping the point by getting into the specifics.

    In the same way I earlier had wrongfully accused many I was talking to on thier political views (i.e. stance on reform), and did apologize for it, I would like to ask that you take no assumptions on the level of education I have, or how I apply it to my views.
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  22. With 9.7% unemployment I'm fine with deporting all illegals country wide. Yes I'll pay more as long as they are gone even though that's not the way it will work out.
    I work close with immigration in a state other than Arizona and they dont even want to talk to an illegal that has less than a felony offense. They are too busy with the felons and dont have the time to deal with a misdemeanor offense or less. These guys cover the whole state. 30% of the people in jails and prisons across the nation are illegal.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by iron fists View Post
    the reason they get bye on a fraction of the median income is because they do not pay any taxes..and if they are given amnesty then they will immediatly be on our welfare system wich will cost our country billions of dollars and guess what......they still wont pay any taxes... we have to go to drastic extremes as a nation to correct this 800 lb gorrilla of a problem..and as a nation we got to stand up and demand that any immigrant that provides a service to us be a legal citizen...from cutting grass, to paving driveways, to cooking in restaurants and building homes.
    If they were were paying taxes, they would need to pay minimum wage, which the employers that pay them would not be able to afford, since thier profitability would be dependent on the wages they are currently paying.

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2 View Post
    30% of the people in jails and prisons across the nation are illegal.
    On Year 2000 numbers? This is a 2007 article, but unless there was a radical increase recently, I am sure the trend remained constant:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/bu...0leonside.html

    If you have a newer article, from a credible source, stating otherwise, I am all ears. I don't state that in disbelief to your statement, it's just not what i have read.
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  24. http://www.wwaytv3.com/illegal_immig...system/08/2008
    "According to INS and FBI statistics from 2006, 29 percent of all the inmates in all state and federal prisons are illegal aliens." And this is just prison. Jails are have lots of illegals in them too. Besides. Statistics dont mean anything to you and wont change your mind. And with the quickness that liberals call everyone a racist, I'm feeling left out. I want to join that bandwagon. Being called a racists has totally lost its punch. I bet the KKK are pissed. The number of "racists" has skyrocketed but their Klan #'s has gone down...strange?
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