The New Arizona Immigration Law (SB1070) in Arizona
- 05-05-2010, 12:43 AM
http://www.bordercounties.org/vertic...9976DC1%7D.PDF Here's a link to a site with data that states that 25% of all unpaid hospital costs are from Illegals less than 10% of the population is Illegals, that means an illegal is 2 and a half times more likely to not pay his hospital bill than a legal citizen
Sorry I can't find the site I saw with the Info on the births to illegals, but I will.
- 05-05-2010, 03:52 AM
05-05-2010, 11:42 AM
A white kid can shoot up a school and we blame video games. If an illegal did the same, it would be of national concern of how these "border jumpers" are destroying our country.
05-05-2010, 02:40 PM
05-05-2010, 04:28 PM
Tell you what, I think states should be allowed to put it to a vote and decide if they will become a new safe haven for the illegals here. All you sympathyzers will be shutting up very quickly.
05-05-2010, 04:41 PM
To be honest with you all, it sickens me to know that jobs are being given to illegal immigrants over an American (no matter what race, background, etc). I have a guy that works for me that went through the proper channels to become a legal citizen of this Country. It was not easy, but he did it. He is proud to call himself an American, and detests those who enter illegally, as well as those who hurt our systems. Here's the funny part: he carries a SOCOM-II and protects the border now. It is part of my daily routine; keep illegals out.
05-05-2010, 04:43 PM
05-05-2010, 05:47 PM
"He said the Arizona Immigration Law contributes to the division between the communities and can cause people, especially immigrants to stop reporting crimes."
Now I don't agree with the tone of the following article, because it occured previous to the law actually being enforced, however, after getting passed (If I am correct - I may not be). However, this is what happens when a law like this is allowed. A citizen, with legal paperwork, ends up in jail. So much for no "big government," huh guys?
05-05-2010, 05:53 PM
As someone who is first generation in this country, this issue is very close to me. Besides being from NY
At the end of the day, my father (along with millions of others before and after him) did it correctly. It was very important to him to become a citizen. He worked hard for it, and was quite proud of it. He became a citizen just prior to the major onset of Vietnam and was later drafted. He was proud (not thrilled however) about going in, but failed the physical.
The fact is, a tremendous amount of money is spent on illegal immigrants. If, however, they want to become citizens, I for one would welcome it. No one has the right to stop the citizenship process. They just HAVE TO DO IT!
05-05-2010, 07:42 PM
Help me understand how your civil rights are violated. The law requires "lawful contact" made by a law enforcement official. Is it a civil rights violation when an officer asks someone suspected of a crime for identification? I understand where you're going with that one, that officers will only profile certain people. That's happened before this law was passed and is not an immigration issue. Besides, I don't think law enforcement has the time or money to do citizenship checks on every Hispanic person that they see... Reasonable cause will need to be used for this to be successful.
05-06-2010, 12:33 AM
It's only a matter of time before a false accusation happens to someone with money. At that point, this will become a supreme court issue and will be cause a much further political debate.
Another issue that WILL arise out of all of this is the effect on local businesses. I feel this commenter/blogger states it pretty accurately:
I also give credit to the balls of the Pheonix suns, or shall I say the los suns:
05-06-2010, 01:46 AM
There are 4,000,000 people in Maricopa county
There are 400,000 Illegals in Maricopa county
of the 3,600,000 citizens, there is 750,000,000 in unpaid bills
that's an average of $208.00 a citizen in unpaid bills
of the 400,000 illegals, there is 250,000,000 in unpaid bills
that's an average of $625.00 an illegal in unpaid bills
Now if the Illegals had a median wage that of three times the citizen wage, their contribution(taxes,consumerism ,donations,etc...) would sufficiently "shore up" the economy in AZ even though they don't do things like pay their hospital bills.
We both know an illegals median income is a fraction of a citizens median income.
This is only ONE example of how much it costs to have this "invaluable" labor source.
05-06-2010, 01:47 AM
05-06-2010, 02:02 AM
If manufacturing for farming equipment goes up, cost of harvesters goes up, cost of packaging/sorting goes up (this is assuming that the replaced role of illegals would be filled with minimum wage paid legals - we understand that illegals usually make under minimum wage), then we can easily expect the price of product to go up. Ms. Soccer Mom now has to spend more on produce to feed her family, which in turn means she is spending less on make up, toys for the children, and other commodities. Now those companies have to start laying people off, because their sales are going down. Now those former employees have less money to put back into the economy, causing a bad trickle effect.
This example shows only if illegals worked in the farming industry, which is untrue, they actually work throughout many different industries. So the effect would be 10 fold.
05-06-2010, 03:43 AM
If you think that cheaper labor drives down the cost of food, you haven't taken economics at a high-school level.
The person working the cheapest gets the job,(that's usually the illegal) and the farmer sells his product for it's market value no matter what he pays for labor. The two really aren't related on the supply and demand curves.
05-06-2010, 10:54 AM
In the example of farming, sure demand will require a certain cost. However, when the end product is forced, which it would be (and this is ignoring government subsidizing), to raise its price due to seeing an increase in cost in all matters related to creating the product, the company is placed into a bad situation. In most cases, many producing the goods will be forced to sell at a loss. This can only be sustained for so long before the product can no longer be considered profitable. This will cause many producing the goods (in this case crops) to simply leave the business. This is due to an economics term known as Profit Motive, which in name should be enough to explain how it works.
Now this means we have fewer producers left on the market, those who due to reserves are able to withstand the low/zero profitability for a longer duration. Demand has remained constant, but now supply has taken a hit. This in turn will begin to raise the cost of the product (I won't explain supply vs. demand, since you originally stated it). This leads perfectly into my situation demonstrated earlier.
Farming is a bad example, and was merely stated as a testament to the point as illegals work in many industries. The reason it is a bad example is due to being heavily government subsidized as well as having a large potential for import. Meaning if we can't produce the supply at the price demanded, then importation from countries that can offer lower wages to thier employees are iminenent. This too would cause an issue as now we are relying on other countries for even more, and with money leaving the country, our own economy becomes affected.
Now I am sure that a common retaliation to this scenario is that Americans that are unemployed will gladly pick up the work even if it is under minimum wage, or at the wage paid to the illegal. Not true. Although some at the extreme poverty level will be forced to take such an offer, a concept known as Reservation Wage exists. Reservation Wage, is the lowest wage for which a person is willing to work, and is in balance with skills they have aquired or thier level of education. Most people in the workforce are capable enough that thier Reservation wage is above that paid to an illegal immigrant. You might also consider the effects of unions. Many skilled legal immigrants, particularly in lower income positions, will at some point seek to form a union, something that illegals do not put any effort into. A union will attempt to hold the wage above the market clearing rate, which in turn raises the costs of production. For an example of this, consider why it is sometimes cheaper to purchase produce at your local ethnic grocery store as compared to a Chain grocery store (this will be more obvious to those in urban environments). The reason being that even though the chain has much greater buying power (able to purchase in bulk at a discount), they also pay thier employees a higher wage resulting in a raise in prices to the end user. The local ethnic grocery store, with no union wages established, is able to keep wages low allowing profitability at a lower sale price.
I can keep going if you would like, but I feel we are side swipping the point by getting into the specifics.
In the same way I earlier had wrongfully accused many I was talking to on thier political views (i.e. stance on reform), and did apologize for it, I would like to ask that you take no assumptions on the level of education I have, or how I apply it to my views.
05-06-2010, 01:41 PM
With 9.7% unemployment I'm fine with deporting all illegals country wide. Yes I'll pay more as long as they are gone even though that's not the way it will work out.
I work close with immigration in a state other than Arizona and they dont even want to talk to an illegal that has less than a felony offense. They are too busy with the felons and dont have the time to deal with a misdemeanor offense or less. These guys cover the whole state. 30% of the people in jails and prisons across the nation are illegal.
05-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Life is a terminal condition.
05-06-2010, 01:49 PM
If you have a newer article, from a credible source, stating otherwise, I am all ears. I don't state that in disbelief to your statement, it's just not what i have read.
05-06-2010, 02:54 PM
"According to INS and FBI statistics from 2006, 29 percent of all the inmates in all state and federal prisons are illegal aliens." And this is just prison. Jails are have lots of illegals in them too. Besides. Statistics dont mean anything to you and wont change your mind. And with the quickness that liberals call everyone a racist, I'm feeling left out. I want to join that bandwagon. Being called a racists has totally lost its punch. I bet the KKK are pissed. The number of "racists" has skyrocketed but their Klan #'s has gone down...strange?
05-06-2010, 03:11 PM
I also never stated that the number of racists has skyrocketed, in fact I can honestly believe that it has decreased. I do feel like these measures do involve a bit of racism. Like I said, a British immigrant on an overstayed visa would not be worried in the least bit over this bill. I hope someone who has been saying this is not a racial thing comes back and states "well illegal mexicans do crimes, not illegal british."
As for the clan numbers, it is a very old group that has lost its appeal. We can argue back and forth over the trending of current generations becoming more and more liberal, but its a side argument. The clan is very weak and seen as such now. A perfect example would be a video that was on the net (I can search for it) where at a KKK rally, a black man, who was part of the counter protest, bent down and moon'd the KKK members and asked them to "kiss his black ass." No one fears them anymore, and they are pretty much a joke. You may be really into bodybuilding, but probably wouldn't join a large group of bb'ers that are notoriously known for idiots and weak. Same reason a racist no longer finds the need to associate themselves with an organization viewed as retarded.
05-06-2010, 03:20 PM
On an army forum, I found this particular post best describing my emotion towards the author:
SourceThe P. F. Wagner you reference chiefly appears in anti-immigrant nativist propaganda and doesn't seem to have any concrete standing anywhere except with the Klan like websites you might favor.
"P. F. Wagner" appears to be a shadow author, very common of propaganda articles.
In his own words...The author of this report collected voluminous information from a wide variety of sources over a significant period of time as the subject interested me. However, in the process some of the references to the original sources were lost and therefore may be omitted.
That link is laughable at best.
05-06-2010, 04:26 PM
The David Dunn Arizona Amnesty Program
Open enrollment: from today untill the end of the year undocumented residents are encouraged to come forward and register for the program. In return they will be given a temporary worker permit. At the first of the year these same individuals will be utilized as paid resources to erect and or construct a security fence along the Arizona/Mexico border. Upon completion of their services they will then be granted temporary residence contigent upon them completing all the necessary requirements to complete the naturalization process.
If they indeed want to secure the border, want anmesty and are non-criminal illegal immigrants (likely some will not turn out because they are felons with warrants) then here is an opportunity to be part of the solution rather than expecting to be given a free ride.
It's a rough draft. I'm at work and have little time to compose more but go ahead and run with it.
BTW - **** Steve Nash!
Life is a terminal condition.
05-06-2010, 04:36 PM
05-06-2010, 04:54 PM
I couldn't disagree much with that either. It wouldn't happen though, that plan seems logical.
05-06-2010, 07:17 PM
The real world? You mean like Arizona? Where I am a native of and live?
Most of my life I have been in the restaurant industry and trust me dude, illegals are lowering the median wage of this state.
05-06-2010, 07:52 PM
Why are some people just so darn afraid of being out of "politically correct". These are the people who allow illegals to overrun a country, will run and hide in Canada if they get drafted for the military, and last but not least will scream and cry to the government when something isn't going their way....
Some of the biggest problems going on right now are happening because people don't have the balls anymore.... Stand up for what is RIGHT regardless if it is popular or not. Don't poon over when a problem arises because you are afraid of what someone might think of you....
I lived in El Paso for almost a year, for those who don't know that is the other side of Juarez Mexico, the #1 drug import site into Texas/USA....
I can say that the LEGAL immigrants there were DAM proud to be American, they kept the American and Texas flag flying very high. They were ashamed of what was going on "illegals", I swear the real Mexicans/Aztecan (alot of them are Aztec Indian decedent and are very pure in blood and proud in stature) spoke much better English there, had more pride for the America and its laws that the majority of people (white included...) that live here in Houston...
They worked hard for their rights to be here and they would not go to one of these protests, and why should they? Just because you are of the same race as someone doesn't mean you are bound to uphold all of their negativity does it? I am German, does that mean I should go on a hating, killing spree, does it mean I should support those who do????
Don't condemn people who are trying to actually create positive change in a country that is collapsing....
If you want to know the truth quit watching the news, and all the propaganda out there, take yourself a road trip/fly over the the place and see it for yourself.
As to how "close to home" the crime levels are as well.... Hows this for starters... Of one of the many weekend shootings that happens between the police and cartel, a friend of mine, father was shot. He had to drag him all the way across the bridge, to get him to a hospital.... The butt to this story, I was to be with him and his father that night (his father was the owner of a local rock band). Had I been there I could have been the one to take that bullet....
BTW that friend of mine was born here, his father had gone through the proper process to become an American citizen and had been for 30 years, oh yeah they voted for Bush. Go figure that the ones who choose to obey the law typically vote republican?
05-06-2010, 08:35 PM
I received this e-mail from a friend and fellow resident of Santa Cruz County . He is trustworthy and honest. I believe the content to be true. It gives me great cause for concern. I have sent a copy of this to Senator Kyl's office and Senator McCain. Unfortunately McCain must be contacted through a mail "form" and it's questionable if anyone will read it.
Forwarded to me by a friend who recently retired from border patrol.........
As you know, one of the local ranchers was murdered in Douglas two weeks ago. His funeral is tomorrow. I received three messages similar to the one below from different officers within the Rangers and law enforcement.
Yesterday afternoon I talked to another rancher near us who is a friend of ours and whose great grandfather started their ranch here in 1880. These are good people.
He told me what really happened out at the Krentz ranch and what you won't read in the papers. The Border Patrol is afraid of starting a small war between civilians here and the drug cartels in Mexico .
Bob Krentz was checking his water like he does every evening and came upon an illegal who was lying on the ground telling him he was sick. Bob called the Border Patrol and asked for a medical helicopter evac. As he turned to go back to his ATV he was shot in the side. The round came from down and angled up so they know the shooter was on the ground. Bob's firearm was in the ATV so he had no chance.
Wounded he called the Cochise County Sheriff and asked for help. Bleeding in the lungs he called his brother but the line was bad so he called his wife but again the line was bad. Several ranchers heard the radio call and drove to his location. Bob was dead by this time. The ranchers tracked the shooter 8 miles back towards Mexico and cornered him in a brushy draw. This was all at night. The Sheriff and Border Patrol arrived and told them not to go down and engage the murderer. They went around to the back side and if you can believe it the assassin managed to get by a BP helicopter and a Sheriff's posse and back to Mexico . So much for professional help when you need it.
One week before the murder Bob and his brother Phil (who I shoot with) hauled a huge quantity of drugs off the ranch that they found in trucks.
One week before that a rancher near Naco did the same thing. Two nights later gangs broke into his ranch house and beat him and his wife and told them that if they touched any drugs they found they would come back and kill them. The ranchers here deal with cut fences and haul drug deliveries off their ranches all the time. What ranchers think is that the drug cartels beat the one rancher and shot Bob because they wanted to send a message. Bob always gave food and water to illegals and so they think they sent the assassin to pose as an illegal who was hungry and thirsty knowing it would catch Bob off guard.
What is going on down here is NOT being reported. You need to tell people how bad it is along the border. Texas is worse. Near El Paso it's in a state of war. 5000 people were killed in Ciudad Juarez last year and it's over 2000 so far this year. Gun sales down here are through the roof and I get emails from people wanting firearms training.
Something has to be done but I don't hold out much hope. These gangs have groups in almost every city in the US . Please read below. This is serious business. The Barrio Azteca and their sub gangs are like Mexican Corporations and organized extremely well. If this doesn't get dealt with down here you guys will deal with it on your streets.
Life is a terminal condition.
05-06-2010, 09:23 PM
05-06-2010, 10:14 PM
Unless you have a prescription for that Test, you my friend are a criminal. I am not claiming I don't break the law, I just don't act like I am innocent and then accuse others of being criminals by political association.My plan was:
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Week 2 Test E 400 mg + Havoc 50mg
Week 3 Test E 400 mg + Havoc 50mg
Week 4 Test E 400 mg + Havoc 50mg
Week 5 Test E 500 mg + Havoc 50mg
Week 6 Test E 500 mg
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