Changing relationship of the US and Israel
04-25-2010 12:02 PM
So the Dem who wrote my article is too close to the subject to judge, but your sources aren't?
I think it would be difficult for the political establishment (like the Dem who wrote the article you posted) to effectively assess the current relationship, and if necessary, redefine it, given the power and prestige of the Israeli lobby and the fellow-travelers in the evangelical Christian community it can call on, if need be.
Whatever. I already said I don't have a problem questioning aid. I wouldn't mind if it ended. I just question your attempt to paint it as thievery on Israel's part, fleecing the US and returning nothing. That's bull****, especially in light of the actual facts. Want to talk about useless foreign aid? Let's talk Iraq. Wanna go there?
04-25-2010 01:34 PM
israel should end their brutal occupation entirely, that is the root cause of all the problems in the middle east.
04-25-2010 05:32 PM
go read the other israel threeads here, and learn something. Your post isn't worth a response, it's trite and been answered fully.
04-28-2010 08:04 PM
My point is that we single-handedly enable Israeli behavior with our massive amounts of military aid, diplomatic protection, and weapons supplying, which means Israeli behavior is rationally perceived by much of the Muslim world as being one and the same as American behavior.
Originally Posted by poison
Muslim anger towards Israel will inevitably translate into Muslim anger towards the U.S. for as long as we continue to flood Israel with aid and cover.
In countless ways, our foreign policy has long and directly violated George Washington's 1796 warning http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp that "nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded"; that "the nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave"; and that "a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils." The typical justification for violating those warnings is that our interests are served by maintaining and steadfastly supporting permanent alliances of this sort.
Yet here is one such nation that receives more American support than any other, stubbornly refusing to cease conduct which our government officially proclaims to be deeply harmful to our interests, and the notion of using our vast leverage to make them change behavior is decreed to be one of the most impenetrable taboos (even the Executive Director of the ostensibly orthodoxy-fighting J Street recently demanded that such a step not even be entertained). For so long, it's been an unchallengeable given that we are required to continue to lavish Israel with aid and diplomatic protection even if they do things that our own government believes (or at least claims to believe) is directly harming the United States.
04-28-2010 08:41 PM
Single handedly enable israeli behavior? You flatter yourself. Israel was founded, and survived its first 30+ years, without US help. Israel behaves how it must to survive, regardless of what nicety the US gave them; in the end of the day, the US is not living, and dying, for israel. You ignore the fact that before US support started, there were 4 major regional wars and opec raped the oil prices. Interestingly, it has been much calmer since the US started supporting israel, and those who sign peace treaties with her.
See, support of israel stemmed the advance of Communism in the ME (a prime US goal). It gave israel the peace of mind and a sense of security it did not have before, so they felt less threatened, while simultaneously giving pause to the arab countries who might wish to attack, this keeps oil prices low (another prime US interest). So **** off with your 'one way street' comments. There's been plenty of give and take.
Muslims who want to hate the US will always hate the US. they don't need the excuse of israel, which does not concern arabs in other countries, past simply being leverage against jews. YOU want to believe them, because it fits your 'israel-free' world view, but the fact is that were israel removed, the hatred of the US would not abate. Trust me, there are the US bases on muslim soil, US manipulation of regional politics for oil, US occupation of 2 countries, the ongoing Iraq war body count, etc ad naseum. But I know, you prefer to call is one sided, a one way street, and blame israel, despite the facts.
George washington might dislike the US/israel dynamic. How do you think he'd feel about the US/iraq/afghanistan dynamic? Hmmmm.
And israel no longer receives even close to the largest amount of aid, so you can forget that tagline for oh, the next 20-30 years. Iraq and afghanistan will be holding that honor.
07-30-2010 09:07 AM
Do you believe Israel NEEDS the US ?
I do not believe that country would be around for long without our backing.
At least no where the way it is currently.
So much bull over Oil and Religion...
08-02-2010 07:06 PM
I KNOW they don't NEED the US. The US/israel relationship has been awesome and comfortable for both sides, and has afforded Israel an easier time than it otherwise would've been. But they made it through far harder times without US support, and they could do it again.
Indeed, US support comes with serious strings. It's allowed Israel to back off the hair trigger, which suits US interests, and the US has NO PROBLEM calling in favors, sometimes at israels expense.
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