Top Things you Think You Know about Iran that are not True
- 10-28-2009, 01:42 AM
- 10-28-2009, 07:00 AM
That "documentary" is a propaganda laiden pile of **** buddy. I love the statement, "The US/American goal is global domination" - which Americans are you talking about? I know plenty of US soldiers and they couldn't give a **** about global domination. I know many Americans and they couldn't give a **** about global domination either. The whole blood for oil argument is beyond ****ing retarded.
If you want to make a reasonable argument in relation to control of oil in the middle east by America the only argument that holds any water is the one in relation to the 'petro-dollar' if you don't know what I'm talking about do yourself a favour and google it and there are plenty of websites out there that will tell you what your opinion now is. Better yet though, how about you read both sides of the argument and come up with a reasoned opinion of your own rather than relying on wikipedia/youtube/antiwar.com to tell you what to think?
The assertion that the 'jews' dominate foreign policy in the US is the biggest load of poorly veiled anti-semetic bull**** in the world. ****ing idiots like Glenn Beck would have you compare Obama (An African American) and plenty of JEWISH democratic senators and representatives as 'nazis' and completely miss the irony because they're too ****ing stupid to know what irony is in a non-Alanis-Morisette way.
The 'jews' aren't the problem buddy. Not in WW2 and certainly not now. If you're going to make some sweeping statement about the so called 'jewish agenda' being pushed in US policies back it up with more than anti-semetic rhetoric. If you like Iran so much go apply for a job as the president's PA, it sounds like the two of you would have some really good discussions denying the holocaust together.
The same douchebags who scream, "Blood for oil" and "Bring back our troops" and "Make peace not war" are the same douchebags who will be screaming bloody murder the second the oil price goes up by 10c or they can't run their air conditioning 24 hours a day in summer due to energy shortages. They're also the same douchebags who wanted reciprocity for 9/11 and now that we're in Afghanistan can't stomach it because they get upset by the idea that bullets and bombs kill people. The joys of a digital age.
You have to wake up and realise people that there is only so much in the way of resources, money, water, oil, food and power to go around. The entire world can't live in air conditioned comfort watching a 52" plasma like you - there isn't enough to go around. So while you sit there on your high horses in your ivory towers ask yourselves would you be willing to give it all up in the name of 'peace and love man'? If the answer is yes then I suggest you do so and prove it. If the answer is no then stop your ****ing complaining, the boys on the wall and in the **** are the ones who provide you the luxuries you enjoy while pissing and moaning like you do because you're a ****ing hypocrite.
With the regimes you are talking about you are dealing with two diametrically opposed ideologies. It is *not* a matter of sitting down over a beer to work out these problems, it's a matter of picking what side your on. There are people in the world who want what you have and are prepared to kill you to take it from you - even if only to burn it to the ground. So... Pick a side and get on with it.
**** or get off the pot peeps.
10-28-2009, 09:19 AM
10-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Vance, Poison, I think Luther is done. Haven't seen him in a few days. Agreed with all Vance, this guy is killing me. It sucks BEING that guy on that wall and every now and then turning around and seeing turds like this pissing on the very constitution that gives them the right to protest in the first place. Makes you want to run off and become a farmer or hermit.
10-28-2009, 12:00 PM
10-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Nothing ****s me more than hippies. The other thread about Afghanistan Luther made a comparison between Afghanistan and Vietnam (Which one couldn't have less to do with the other anyway) while spouting the usual cut and pasted diatribes.
The same hippies that made the US cut and run from Vietnam were the same hippies who got us involved in the first place. "Look at the evil commies brutalising the peaceful South Vietnamese! Why doesn't someone do something?!" Skip forward a few years and if you're in uniform you're a baby killer.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
10-28-2009, 02:13 PM
Hipsters are the new hippies. Hippy > hipster. Same ****, just in a more ecologically sound, well designed (yet strategically worn to give an impression of authenticity and originality), and less smelly package.
10-28-2009, 03:54 PM
10-29-2009, 10:05 PM
Since I am so hopelessly ill informed,lets let the Winter Soldiers who were in Iraq speak:
Winter Soldiers in the Christian Science Monitor
The Christian Science Monitor's interviewed IVAW members at Winter Soldier for an audio slideshow. Vincent Emanuele, a former Marine who served in Iraq from 2004 to 2005, commented on why he testified:
"This is not about being unpatriotic. I think this is about being as patriotic as you can possibly be. Being honest and saying, 'Hey, listen, our government has been doing some bad things in a Middle Eastern country,' and that's ok to admit that. Because if we don't admit that, and don't learn from that, we're going to continue down this very same path."
"The veterans are not against the military and seek not to indict it – instead they seek to shine a light on the bigger picture: that the Abu Ghraib prison regime and the Haditha massacre of innocent Iraqis are not isolated incidents perpetrated by “bad seeds” as the military suggests, but evidence of an endemic problem. They will say they were tasked to do terrible things and point the finger up the chain of command, which ignores, diminishes or covers up routine abuse and atrocities.
Some see it as their responsibility to speak out – like Jason Washburn, a US marine who did two tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq; Logan Laituri, a US Army forward observer in Iraq; and Perry O’Brien, an army medic deployed to Afghanistan in 2003. They believe that, as veterans, they are the most credible sources of information. They say they were put in immoral and often illegal positions. They will speak about what they saw, and what they were asked to do. "
10-29-2009, 10:16 PM
Jason Washburn, 28, grew up in San Diego, California. He always wanted to do something to make a difference, and he enlisted in the US marines in December 2001. He wasn’t itching to go into combat, but he wanted the training.
He fought in the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003 where, he says, he met little resistance. Most people were surrendering.
“There were massive amounts of artillery strikes before we even invaded. We saw the results of that. Streets full of bodies – women and children – body parts, extremely indiscriminate. I’m talking about rolling through villages here, not military encampments.”
He was told there was a military structure in one village. “I didn’t see it. I didn’t see any army uniforms. Or weapons. All I saw were civilians.”
Washburn speaks slowly and with obvious discomfort. This was his introduction to Iraq.
“I still believed everything we were force-fed: weapons of mass destruction and possibly even a nuclear weapon. We felt, like, we’re going to go in, overthrow this evil dictator and give these people some peace, finally. We thought we were doing a good thing.”
Over the course of his three tours, there were more home raids than Washburn can remember. He explains how it worked. “Usually it was based on a tip – we’re told someone in the home is an insurgent. We would pick up people who had nothing to do with anything, keep them locked up until they came up with something.”
He is glad that he didn’t witness some of the techniques used to get them to talk. “That’s not something I want on my conscience.”
It was not a scientific process. Most tips came from people with personal grudges. Washburn and his platoon would kick down the doors in the middle of the night. He was warned not to be complacent. There could be weapons in the children’s beds. In all of the home raids, too many to count, he never found children with weapons. They would take the father away and they never knew what would happen after that.
By the time Washburn served in Haditha he was on his third combat tour. He was there on November 19, 2005, the day of the massacre when 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed, including women and children.
“My squad was doing medivacs out of the town. I was not there to witness the shooting, but I know many marines who were.”
It was a squad in his unit that went on the rampage after their vehicle was hit by an improvised explosive device (IED).
“I have a lot of feelings about this incident. A friend of mine from my first two tours was in that squad. He was the guy they gave immunity to to testify against the squad leader.
“The people on the ground are looking at serious prison time. Like life. The people who were giving orders were only relieved of command. And I don’t think that’s right.”
Washburn says Haditha was not an isolated incident. “It’s the one that just happened to be uncovered.”
10-29-2009, 10:22 PM
1. The anti-war movement supports our troops by urging that they be brought home immediately so they neither kill nor get killed in a unjust war. How has the Bush administration shown its support for our troops?
a. The Republican-controlled House Budget Committee voted to cut $25 billion in veterans benefits over the next 10 years.
b. The Bush administration proposed cutting $172 million from impact aid programs which provide school funding for children of military personnel.
c. The administration ordered the Dept. of Veterans Affairs to stop publicizing health benefits available to veterans.
d. All of the above.
2. The anti-war movement believes that patriotism means urging our country to do what is right. How do Bush administration officials define patriotism?
a. Patriotism means emulating **** Cheney, who serves as Vice-President while receiving $100,000-$1,000,000 a year from Halliburton, the multi-billion dollar company which is already lining up for major contracts in post-war Iraq.
b. Patriotism means emulating Richard Perle, the warhawk who serves as head of the Defense Intelligence Board while at the same time meeting with Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi on behalf of Trireme, a company of which he is a managing partner, involved in security and military technologies, and while agreeing to work as a paid lobbyist for Global Crossing, a telecommunications giant seeking a major Pentagon contract.
c. Patriotism means emulating George W. Bush, **** Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Tom DeLay, John Ashcroft, Lewis Libby, and others who enthusiastically supported the Vietnam War while avoiding serving in it and who now are sending others to kill and be killed in Iraq.
d. All of the above.
3. The Bush administration has accused Saddam Hussein of lying regarding his weapons of mass destruction. Which of the following might be considered less than truthful?
a. Constant claims by the Bush administration that there was documentary evidence linking Iraq to attempted uranium purchases in Niger, despite the fact that the documents were forgeries and CIA analysts doubted their authenticity.
b. A British intelligence report on Iraq's security services that was in fact plagiarized, with selected modifications, from a student article.
c. The frequent citation of the incriminating testimony of Iraqi defector Hussein Kamel, while suppressing that part of the testimony in which Kamel stated that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed following the 1991 Gulf War.
d. All of the above.
4. White House Press Secretary Ari Fleisher stormed out of a press conference when the assembled reporters broke into laughter after he declared that the U.S. would never try to bribe members of the UN. What should Fleisher have said to defend himself?
a. It wasn't just bribery; we also ordered the bugging of the home and office phones and emails of the UN ambassadors of Security Council member states that were undecided on war.
b. Oh, come on! We've been doing this for years. In 1990 when Yemen voted against authorizing war with Iraq, the U.S. ambassador declared "That will be the most expensive 'no' vote you ever cast."
c. Why do you think the Africa Growth and Opportunity Act makes one of the conditions for an African country to receive preferential access to U.S. markets that it “not engage in activities that undermine United States national security or foreign policy interests”?
d. All of the above.
5. George Bush has declared that "we have no fight with the Iraqi people." What could he have cited as supporting evidence?
a. U.S. maintenance of 12 years of crippling sanctions that strengthened Saddam Hussein while contributing to the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
b. The fact that "coalition" forces have indicated that they will use cluster bombs in Iraq, despite warnings from human rights groups that "The use of cluster munitions in Iraq will endanger civilians for years to come."
c. By pointing to the analogy of Afghanistan, which the U.S. pledged not to forget about when the war was over, and for which the current Bush administration foreign aid budget request included not one cent in aid.
d. All of the above.
6. The Bush administration has touted the many nations that are part of the "coalition of the willing." Which of the following statements about this coalition is true?
a. In most of the coalition countries polls show that a majority, often an overwhelming majority, of the people oppose the war.
b. More than ten of the members of the coalition of the willing are actually a coalition of the unwilling – unwilling to reveal their names.
c. Coalition members – most of whose contributions to the war are negligible or even zero – constitute less than a quarter of the countries in the UN and contain less than 20% of the world's population.
d. All of the above.
7. The war on Iraq is said to be part of the "war on terrorism." Which of the following is true?
a. A senior American counterintelligence official said: "An American invasion of Iraq is already being used as a recruitment tool by Al Qaeda and other groups….And it is a very effective tool."
b. An American official, based in Europe, said Iraq had become "a battle cry, in a way," for Al Qaeda recruiters.
c. France's leading counter-terrorism judge said: "Bin Laden's strategy has always been to demonstrate to the Islamic community that the West, and especially the U.S., is starting a global war against Muslims. An attack on Iraq might confirm this vision for many Muslims. I am very worried about the next wave of recruits."
d. All of the above.
8. The Bush administration says it is waging war to stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Which of the following is true?
a. The United States has refused to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, viewed worldwide as the litmus test for seriousness about nuclear disarmament.
b. The United States has insisted on a reservation to the Chemical Weapons Convention allowing the U.S. President the right to refuse an inspection of U.S. facilities on national security grounds, and blocked efforts to improve compliance with the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention.
c. Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby, Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, testified on Feb. 11, 2003, "The long-term trends with respect to WMD and missile proliferation are bleak. States seek these capabilities for regional purposes, or to provide a hedge to deter or offset U.S. military superiority."
d. All of the above.
9. The Bush administration says it wants to bring democracy to Iraq and the Middle East. Which of the following is true?
a. If there were democracy in Saudi Arabia today, backing for the U.S. war effort would be the first thing to go, given the country's "increasingly anti-American population deeply opposed to the war."
b. The United States subverted some of the few democratic governments in the Middle East (Syria in 1949, Iran in 1953), and has backed undemocratic regimes in the region ever since.
c. The United States supported the crushing of anti-Saddam Hussein revolts in Iraq in 1991.
d. All of the above.
10. Colin Powell cited as evidence of an Iraq-Al Qaeda link an audiotape from bin Laden in which he called Saddam Hussein and his Baath Party regime "infidels." Which of the following is more compelling evidence?
a. An FBI official told the New York Times: "We've been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's there."
b. According to a classified British intelligence report seen by BBC News, "There are no current links between the Iraqi regime and the al-Qaeda network."
c. According to Rohan Gunaratna, author of Inside Al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, "Since U.S. intervention in Afghanistan in October 2001, I have examined several tens of thousands of documents recovered from Al Qaeda and Taliban sources. In addition to listening to 240 tapes taken from Al Qaeda's central registry, I debriefed several Al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. I could find no evidence of links between Iraq and Al Qaeda."
d. All of the above.
Answers and Sources
1. d (a) Cong. Lane Evans, "Veterans Programs Slashed by House Republicans," Press Release, 3/13/03, http://www.veterans.house.gov/democr...3-03budget.htm. (b) Brian Faler, "Educators Angry Over Proposed Cut in Aid; Many Children in Military Families Would Feel Impact," Washington Post, 3/19/03, p. A29. (c) See Veterans' for Common Sense, letter to George W. Bush, 3/20/03 http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/print.asp?****563; Melissa B. Robinson, "Hospitals Face Budget Crunch," Associated Press, 7/31/02; Jason Tait, "Veterans angered by marketing ban," Eagle-Tribune (Lawrence, MA), 8/2/02, http://www.eagletribune.com/news/sto...802/FP_003.htm
2. d (a) Warren Vieth and Elizabeth Douglass, " Ousting Hussein could open the door for U.S. and British firms. French, Russian and Chinese rivals would lose their edge," Los Angeles Times, 3/12/03, p. I:1; Robert Bryce and Julian Borger, "Halliburton: Cheney is still paid by Pentagon contractor, Bush deputy gets Dollars 1m from firm with Iraq oil deal," Guardian (London), 3/12/03, p. 5 (which notes that Halliburton "would not say how much the payments are; the obligatory disclosure statement filled by all top government officials says only that they are in the range of" $100,000 and $1 million. (b) Seymour M. Hersh, "Lunch with the Chairman," New Yorker, 3/16/03; Stephen Labaton, "Pentagon Adviser Is Also Advising Global Crossing," NYT, 3/21/03, p. C1. Perle is to be paid $725,000 for his lobbying effort, including $600,000 if his lobbying is successful. (c) New Hampshire Gazette, "The Chickenhawks," http://nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html.
3. d (a) See the evidence collected in Cong. Henry Waxman's letter to George W. Bush, 3/17/03, http://www.house.gov/waxman/text/adm...rch_17_let.htm. (b) See Glen Rangwala's report, http://traprockpeace.org/britishdossier.html. (c) See Glen Rangwala's report, http://traprockpeace.org/kamel.html.
4. d (a) Martin Bright, Ed Vulliamy, and Peter Beaumont, The Observer (London), 3/2/03. (b) Quoted in Phyllis Bennis, Calling the Shots: How Washington Dominates Today's UN, New York: Olive Branch, 1996, p. 33. (c) Sarah Anderson, Phyllis Bennis, and John Cavanagh, Coalition of the Willing or Coalition of the Coerced?: How The Bush Administration Influences Allies in Its War on Iraq, Washington, DC: Institute for Policy Studies, 2/26/03, p. 4.
5. d (a) For background, see Anthony Arnove, ed., Iraq Under Siege: The Deadly Impact of Sanctions and War, Cambridge: South End Press, updated ed. 2003. (b) Paul Waugh, "Labour MPs Attack Hoon After He Reveals That British Forces Will Use Cluster Bombs," Independent, 3/21/03, p. 4; Human Rights Watch, Press Release, 3/18/03: "Persian Gulf: U.S. Cluster Bomb Duds A Threat; Warning Against Use of Cluster Bombs in Iraq." (c) Zvi Bar'el, "Flaws in the Afghan Model," Ha'aretz, 3/14/03, http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/ob...?itemNo=272884.
6. d (a) See, for example, the revealing comment of Secretary of State Powell: "We need to knock down this idea that nobody is on our side. So many nations recognize this danger [of Iraq's weapons]. And they do it in the face of public opposition." Quoted in Steven R. Weisman With Felicity Barringer, "Urgent Diplomacy Fails To Gain U.S. 9 Votes In The U.N." NYT, 3/10/03, p. A1) (b) U.S. Dept. of State, Daily Press Briefing, Richard Boucher, Washington, DC, 3/18/03. (c) Country list: White House, Statement of Support from Coalition, 3/25/03, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030325-8.html; population calculated from Statistical Abstract of the United States, 2001, Washington, DC: 2001, table 1327. Total includes USA. The White House list includes countries whose leaders have done no more than state their support for the United States, and the listing changes from day to day, with some countries being added and some removed.
7. d (a) Don Van Natta Jr. and Desmond Butler, "Anger On Iraq Seen As New Qaeda Recruiting Tool," NYT, 3/16/03, p. I:1. (b) Van Natta and Butler, NYT, 3/16/03. (c) Van Natta and Butler, NYT, 3/16/03.
8. d (a) Colum Lynch, "U.S. Boycotts Nuclear Test Ban Meeting; Some Delegates at U.N. Session Upset at Latest Snub of Pact Bush Won't Back," Washington Post, 11/12/02, p. A6. (b) Amy E. Smithson, “U.S. Implementation of the CWC," in Jonathan B. Tucker, The Chemical Weapons Convention: Implementation Challenges and Solutions, Monterey Institute, April 2001, pp. 23-29, http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/tuckcwc.htm; Jonathan Tucker, "The Fifth Review Conference of the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention," Feb. 2002, http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_7b.html. (c) Testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, excerpted at http://traprockpeace.org/usefulquotesoniraq.html.
9. d (a) Craig S. Smith, "Saudi Arabia Seems Calm But, Many Say, Is Seething," NYT, 3/24/03, p. B13. In fact, "Though the Saudi government officially denies it, the bombing campaign is being directed from Saudi Arabia – something that few Saudis realize." (b) On Syria, see Douglas Little, ACold War and Covert Action: The United States and Syria, 1945‑1958,@ Middle East Journal, vol. 44, no. 1, Winter 1990, pp. 55‑57. On Iran, see Mark J. Gasiorowski, "The 1953 Coup D'Etat in Iran," International Journal of Middle East Studies, vol. 19, Aug. 1987, pp. 261-86. (c) Andrew ****burn and Patrick ****burn, Out of the Ashes: The Resurrection of Saddam Hussein, New York: HarperPerennial. 1999, chap. 1.
10. d (re audiotape, see David Johnston, "Top U.S. Officials Press Case Linking Iraq To Al Qaeda," NYT, 2/12/03, p. A1; Mohamad Bazzi, "U.S. says bin Laden tape urging Iraqis to attack appears real," Newsday, 2/12/03, p. A5. (a) James Risen and David Johnston, "Split at C.I.A. and F.B.I. On Iraqi Ties to Al Qaeda," NYT, 2/2/03, p. I:13. (b) "Leaked Report Rejects Iraqi al-Qaeda Link," BBC News, 2/5/03. (c) Rohan Gunaratna, "Iraq and Al Qaeda: No Evidence of Alliance," International Herald Tribune, 2/19/03.
Interpreting Your Score
9-10 Correct: Excellent. Contact United for Peace and Justice, http://www.unitedforpeace.org/, and work to fight the war and the system that produced it.
6-8 Correct: Fair. You've been watching a few too many former generals and government officials who provide the "expert" commentary for the mainstream media. Read the alternative media!
3-5 Correct: Poor. Don't feel bad. George W. Bush only got a C- in International Relations at College.
0-2 Correct: Failing. You have a bright future as an "embedded" journalist.
10-29-2009, 10:33 PM
Try to tell Iraqis who are not part of the ruling circles that their situation has improved since the occupation and they will remind you not only of the countless dead and injured but also of the million-plus orphans and widows, the 2 million who fled the country, and the 2 million internal refugees, most of whom live in dreadful squalor.
They will tell you about the sewage covering the streets of many towns and cities, the lack of clean water, fuel and electricity, and the ever deteriorating health and education services.
They will tell you about the more than 50% unemployment, the kidnapping of children, the fear of women to move freely, and the rapid rise in drug abuse and prostitution.
They will describe the horrific methods of torture inflicted on the tens of thousands of prisoners in Iraqi and American jails.
They will remind you that if a "world-famous patriot" such as Muntadhar al-Zaidi, who threw his shoes at President Bush, was tortured by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's own guards and forces, what chance ordinary citizens?
Iraqis will also instantly refer you to the corrupt rulers who came to Iraq "on the backs of US tanks".
They will tell you of the division of ministries and senior posts among the various sectarian and ethnically identified political allies of the US.
Indeed, corruption has reached such levels that the minister of trade and his brothers have been accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars by the "Integrity Committee", while the deputy transport minister was caught receiving $100,000 as the "first instalment" of another huge bribe.
While Iraq and its people continue to suffer, with most of the western media ignoring their plight, President Obama is still pursuing President Bush's goal in Iraq – to have a government in Baghdad that is closely allied to the US. This is incompatible with bringing about a stable, peaceful and democratic Iraq. What US strategists have yet to learn is that the Iraqi people will not freely accept a pro-US regime in Baghdad and that the "exit strategy" will inevitably result in long-term occupation, and bring only more bloodshed and destruction.
Why are the Iraqi people expected to elect a disparate collection of corrupt and sectarian pro-US politicians? The only realistic exit strategy must start with the right of the Iraqi people to self determination, free of American intervention.
10-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Luther, you're an idiot. I already refuted 90% of what you just said. Lies unwrapped, and then rewrapped in different packaging doesn't change the fact that they are lies. I acknowledged there have been some mistakes, but to go out and find a group of hippies that served in Iraq and say that they represent the military is an insult to every guy that has spilled his blood, or seen his buddy spill his. So out of the nearly 1,000,000 different people who have served in these two wars over the years you find less than 50 who talk the way you think... well done. that's what less than .5%
And don't even THINK that you have the authority to speak on behalf of the Iraqi people. reading an article on one of your America hating websites when I ACTUALLY LIVE WITH THESE PEOPLE. You are going to say YOU know better than I do??? Are you kidding me??? Sewage in the streets??? unemployment 50%???? this is all fabricated garbage. The average Iraqi had the chance to remove the Americans, how???? THROUGH DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS. what did they choose???? nearly 90% VOTED TO KEEP THE US IN IRAQ for the time being. Sounds like they hate us don't they.
Oh that quiz you did, not even worth my time. I answered you point by point on your last one, and not with fancy quotes and articles..., but with facts gathered from MY OWN EYES. Oh, and the reason that kid never knew what happened to the guys that were detained, he was the guy that was part of the force that GRABBED HIM. He was not the guy who had to build the intelligence package and present it to the proper authorities. He wasn't the guy who then in turn interrogated him in prison. He had no idea the loser was responsible for killing hundreds of HIS OWN PEOPLE in markets. Give it a rest bro. And, by the way, there are more torture interrogations in the state prisons and in prisons throughout the world than there are in Iraq. How can I make such a claim, BECAUSE I WAS THE Officer In Charge, or OIC, of the prison in Baqubah. I will end with this little story:
In honor of a national Iraqi holiday, CF decided to release a few thugs from prison. It just so happened that Al Jazirah, the American hating terrorist loving network was there. They immediately grabbed one of these guys and talked to him. What horrible things did he have to say???
1. He had not had 3 better meals a day in his life
2. The US paid him for his time in prison, as we do all detainees... something we don't even do in the states
3. There is NO WAY he would rather be in Iraqi care because they would have beat him
4. He wished that the Americans would keep him there at the jail because it was better than his home and they treated him with respect unlike his wife and family.
Al Jazirah never ran the story..., and YES I watched this with my own 2 eyes.
Luther... life isn't about what you read on left leaning American hating websites, it's about WHAT YOU EXPERIENCE YOURSELF. Don't disrespect the guys who stand on that wall... in the end... you and your code pink sisters will get bit on the butt
10-30-2009, 04:19 AM
10-30-2009, 05:30 AM
Despite what many people refuse to believe Israel does influence our choices in the middle east, ask any politician who has criticized Israel. I'm not going to start another debate about U.S. Foreign policy and Israel because you only need to google that subject to find out what I am talking about. And again, none of this is nazi anti-Semitic rhetoric.
10-30-2009, 05:53 AM
I understand the "petro-dollar" relationship, that's probably why we sent two naval battlegroups over there where they made mention of selling in Euros.
Here is another documentary.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98"]YouTube - The Israel Lobby (Marije Meerman, VPRO Backlight 2007)[/ame]
10-30-2009, 11:45 AM
10-30-2009, 12:29 PM
I wouldn't take into account anything these armchair quarter back writers have to say, and nor would I take anything that the IVAW has to say. Luther, do not take anything that those poseurs at IVAW has to say, they are a disgrace. I will now bite my tongue gentleman, carry on.
10-30-2009, 05:36 PM
I think Zionism is the problem and even some jews agree with this. (There I'm done talking about Israel because we already had 2 other threads with this topic)
10-30-2009, 05:42 PM
As for Iran however, even if they acquired nuclear weapons they would be stupid to even think about attack Israel or the US. Israel has an immensely powerful sophisticated military that would turn Iran into ruble with in days. Not to mention Israel would nuke the hell out of them before they had time to celebrate there one-shot nuke launch.
I feel China and/or Russia are a greater threat than Iran could be. China especially since they've made it there mission to advance their military with no current threat to their nation.
10-30-2009, 05:54 PM
That's like looking at a shaved headed Muslim, who's sweating and wearing a bulky ski jacket in 90 degree heat, and walking towards a packed bus stop muttering allhuakhbar with his finger on the button, and saying 'he's not stupid enough to do that, no human would!'. We all know how that works out.
Your logic and morals don't apply over there. YOU wouldn't build a nuke and tickle your biggest nuclear neighbor with it, and risk your populations total annihilation, but Ahmedinejad might, Khameini might. Iran isn't in the most stable region of the world. What if Iran nuked a neighbor? Could it trigger a WW? Could we be dragged in?
So what alternative use would Iran have for a nuke?
10-30-2009, 09:36 PM
Something As Basic As Water. I think it is
sad how the USA’s government went to all that trouble to proclaim that the USA “cares” about the regular, non-terrorist citizens of Iraq, and then neglects their basic needs.
“Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”
- George Orwell
Also,from independent US journalist Dahr Jamail in Iraq:
by Dahr Jamail
The geo-strategic expansion of the American empire is an accepted fact of contemporary history. I have been writing in these columns about the impact of the US occupation on the people of Iraq in the wake of the “hard” colonization via F-16s, tanks, 2,000-pound bombs, white phosphorous and cluster bombs.
Here I offer a brief glimpse into the less obvious but far more insidious phenomenon of “soft” colonization. That scholars and political thinkers have talked at length of such processes only establishes the uncomfortable reality that history is bound to repeat itself in all its ugliness, unless the human civilization makes a concerted effort to eliminate the use of brute force from human affairs.
Gandhi, the apostle of non-violent resistance said:
“I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any. I refuse to live in other people’s houses as an interloper, a beggar or a slave.”
This is an idea rendered irrelevant in the current scenario, where the mightier among the world’s nations have secured the mandate to invade, with impunity, any society and any state that can be exploited for resources. Unlike earlier times, modern-day invasions are invariably camouflaged by a façade of elaborate deceit that claims altruistic intent as the motive of assault. In this new scheme of things, resistance is deemed as insurgency and dissent is unpatriotic. Those that are invaded do not have the luxury to decide between being beggar and slave. Culture would be the last thing on their minds as they struggle to stay alive. Yet it is the loss of their culture that ultimately causes the disintegration of these societies to the absolute advantage of their victors.
It is said that history is written by the victor. What is not said is that destroying the enemy is only half the purpose of a victor. The other half is the subjugation and drastic alteration of the self-perception of the enemy, so as to gain unquestioned control over every aspect of the subjugated state, its populace and its resources, so that having won victory it can get on with the “much bigger business of plunder,” according to Franz Fanon, philosopher, psychiatrist, author and a pre-eminent thinker of the twentieth century.
At one level we have the Human Terrain System (HTS) I have written about previously wherein social scientists are embedded with combat units, ostensibly to help the occupiers better understand the cultures they are occupying. The veiled intent is to exploit existing schisms and fault-lines in these societies to the occupier’s own advantage through the policy of divide and conquer.
As Edward Said stated in “Orientalism”:
“… there is a difference between knowledge of other peoples and other times that is the result of understanding, compassion, careful study and analysis for their own sakes, and on the other hand knowledge - if that is what it is - that is part of an overall campaign of self-affirmation, belligerency, and outright war. There is, after all, a profound difference between the will to understand for purposes of coexistence and humanistic enlargement of horizons, and the will to dominate for the purposes of control and external enlargement of horizons, and the will to dominate for the purposes of control and external dominion.”
It is extremely obvious that the HTS belongs to this second category.
At another unquestioned level, the “democratization” and “modernization” of a “barbaric” society goes on. The embedded scholars of HTS evidently find no evidence of these cultures having withstood decades of international isolation and assault, yet sustained their sovereignty by the sheer dint of their education, culture and a well-integrated diverse social fabric. So the US sets up a range of state-funded programs, ostensibly to empower the women and youth of the target society, in the ways of democracy and modern civilization. Whether or not that suspect goal is accomplished, the badgered collective consciousness of the invaded people, traumatized by loss and conflict, does begin to submit to the “norms” of behavior prescribed by the victor, even when they are in violation of actual norms of society that may have prevailed prior to invasion.
“A national culture under colonial domination is a contested culture whose destruction is sought in systematic fashion.”
Describing the psychopathology of colonization he said, “Every effort is made to bring the colonized person to admit the inferiority of his culture which has been transformed into instinctive patterns of behavior, to recognize the unreality of his ‘nation’, and, in the last extreme, the confused and imperfect character of his own biological structure.”
Fanon’s speech to the Congress of Black African Writers in 1959 is an uncanny description of Iraq’s tragedy today:
“Colonial domination, because it is total and tends to over-simplify, very soon manages to disrupt in spectacular fashion the cultural life of a conquered people. This cultural obliteration is made possible by the negation of national reality, by new legal relations introduced by the occupying power, by the banishment of the natives and their customs to outlying districts by colonial society, by expropriation, and by the systematic enslaving of men and women …
“For culture is first the expression of a nation, the expression of its preferences, of its taboos and of its patterns. It is at every stage of the whole of society that other taboos, values and patterns are formed. A national culture is the sum total of all these appraisals; it is the result of internal and external extensions exerted over society as a whole and also at every level of that society. In the colonial situation, culture, which is doubly deprived of the support of the nation and of the state, falls away and dies.”
At times we may witness blatant violations as in the distribution of backpacks with US flags to Iraqi children.
A more repulsive example is the Skin White Serum. One of many companies engaged in selling skin-bleaching cream is Skin White Research Labs. They proudly sell Skin White Serum in “over 30 countries.” There are countless other companies involved in this market, selling similar products, like Skin White Bleaching Cream and Xtreme White.
The hidden message here is that, politically, those in the culture being colonized should seek to cover their brown skin, which is in fact part of their ethnic identity, and aspire to the culture, power and influence of the dominant culture at the expense of their own.
Somewhat less subtle is the corporate colonization of Iraq’s culture. An example of this is Iraqi girls carrying Barbie backpacks in the Sadr City area of Baghdad.
In Iraq and Afghanistan, the dominant culture for a while now has been the US military. Since it has all the firepower and the brute force, it sets the norms and the standard. This is done by repeated suggestions through propaganda, and advertisements suggesting that the local population is of lesser worth than the occupiers of their country in their appearance, their beliefs, their customs and their way of life.
The material practices of society sustain its culture, which is the lifeline of identity, and affirmation that the progress of a nation depends on. Social custom, production systems, education, art and architecture are a few of the visible pillars of culture.
Community and custom become the first casualties when an entire people, unequal in the face of military might, struggle to survive under perpetual fear of loss and death. In a state of vacuum, the threatened society will grasp whatever is offered by the occupier as a “better” way of living. In the process it is bound to lose its own tried and tested self-sustaining modes of living.
With the destruction of infrastructure, education, health and livelihood sources are destroyed. When rehabilitation and restoration come packaged in alien systems of knowledge (read-USAID), that, too, is accepted in the absence of what existed earlier.
Literature, art and architecture meet with more systemic demolition.
My artist friends in Baghdad have reported,
“The occupation forces encouraged the rebels to loot museum and libraries. Five thousand years of history and art were irretrievably lost in hours. It is a loss for the world, not Iraq alone. Buildings can be fixed, so can electricity, but where can I find another Khalid al-Rahal to make me a new statue for Abu Fafar al-Mansoor? How will I replace the artifacts dating back to thousands of years? Iraq is altered forever.”
I have heard from ordinary men and women in Iraq, “We need our art, because it connects us with what has brought us here, and reminds us of where we are headed.” Dr. Saad Eskander has been director general of whatever remains of Iraq’s National Archive and Library and he says, “This building was burned twice, and looted. We have lost sixty percent of our archival collections like maps, historical records and photographs. Twenty-five percent of our books were lost … It has crippled our culture, and culture reaches to the bottom of peoples’ hearts, whereas politics do not.”
It is not difficult to see that the extent of devastation caused by the invasion and occupation of Iraq goes beyond loss of life, livelihood and property. The historical and cultural roots of the nation have been destroyed.
10-30-2009, 10:31 PM
Luther you crack me up you wikipedia a bunch of quotes by famous people and then add your two cents into it that, freaking outstanding, if you can do a better job with providing better diplomacy with the "current scenario" go over to the sandbox and make sure you bring Sean Penn and his camera with you, also bring some knock off van gough's and picasso's so you can reintroduce there cultural "roots" with some new artwork.
10-31-2009, 01:04 AM
Luther until you post your own opinions based on what you have personally seen, I'm done with this. I refuse to answer your articles written by people with an agenda. I have given you a fair and honest assessment as I have personally seen it, and you quote idiots. I have personally been part of water projects over here. Don't blame us for an infrastructure that your buddy Saddam let fall to ruin. We have invested billions in this economy and infrastructure. So, until you post something original, I leave you to Poison, Vance, and Ryan. Love you like a brother, but grow a pair and read something other than hate America filth.
10-31-2009, 01:11 AM
Similar Forum Threads
- By yeahright in forum Nutrition / HealthReplies: 16Last Post: 06-06-2006, 12:06 AM
- By Blindfaith in forum AnabolicsReplies: 48Last Post: 05-03-2006, 07:30 AM
- By windwords7 in forum Training ForumReplies: 39Last Post: 05-12-2004, 05:48 PM
- By Blindfaith in forum AnabolicsReplies: 6Last Post: 03-13-2003, 12:08 PM