Criminal Investigations of the Torturers?

lutherblsstt

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Scott Horton , international human rights lawyer, professor and contributing editor at Harper’s magazine, discusses Attorney General Eric Holder’s likely appointment of a prosecutor to investigate torture, the common misconception that the CIA pressed the White House to allow “enhanced” interrogations, **** Cheney’s chicken-hawk tendencies and the potential bombshell Inspector General’s report on U.S. torture practices.

http://dissentradio.com/radio/09_07_21_horton.mp3
 
roids1

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So which technique hurts your conscience the most Luther? Was it the water over the face, the catterpillar being put in Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's cell, or detainees being shoved against a wall? Or, do you just want a chance to grab a pound of flesh from some former officials of the Bush administration?
 
searl12

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So which technique hurts your conscience the most Luther? Was it the water over the face, the catterpillar being put in Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's cell, or detainees being shoved against a wall? Or, do you just want a chance to grab a pound of flesh from some former officials of the Bush administration?
roids 1 are you my long lost brother?

what about 9/11
the tube bombings in london
the uss cole bombing
the beheading of nick berg
the beheading of kenneth bigley
the capture of the american soldier

shall I go on? give these scumbags nothing more than they would give us...heck some of them have it better than some of our own people

let em rot!
 
searl12

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I really dislike people who want to give our enemies any freedoms, any rights and anything other than 2 in the chest and 1 in the head.
 
searl12

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boo to this thread, anyone who actually cares how these barbaric scumbags are treated doesnt have any grasp of what these people would do to him if they had him in captivity, simply to once again push their barbaric ideoligies.
 
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Boo to anyone who flushes their own humanity down a toilet the second someone does something they find distasteful. I don't want Abdul Ramsey Al Kaboom tortured because I'm better than that. Start treating people by different standards and saying it's okay to treat some like **** or to torture them and you lose moral authority and a crucial part of the very essence of what makes the USA different from the bombed out third world **** holes these bastards come from. I'm not saying I know how to win this conflict, but I know one sure fire way to lose it, which is to lower ourselves to their medieval, barely a step above apes standards so there is no country here worth preserving anymore but just another **** hole.

That said, I could give a **** less about water boarding. They probably consider it a spa treatment in the middle east.
 
roids1

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Give me an example of real torture taking place by the USA and I might agree with you. So, far if just looks like the definition has been stretched pretty thin for political purposes.
 
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Give me an example of real torture taking place by the USA and I might agree with you. So, far if just looks like the definition has been stretched pretty thin for political purposes.
No argument with that.
 
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For the most part, US prisoners are treated very well. There MAY be a .01% that gets the 'deluxe' treatment, but most likely they are farmed out to our friends in Saudi ARabia or TUrkey for deniability sake.

Who here thinks our prisoners are worse off than the currently kidnapped troop in Afganistan? I bet that guy would KILL to be an inmate in Guantanamo.
 
searl12

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For the most part, US prisoners are treated very well. There MAY be a .01% that gets the 'deluxe' treatment, but most likely they are farmed out to our friends in Saudi ARabia or TUrkey for deniability sake.

Who here thinks our prisoners are worse off than the currently kidnapped troop in Afganistan? I bet that guy would KILL to be an inmate in Guantanamo.
US prisoners are treated well????????

I remeber early in the iraq war one being captured.....needless to say they found the poor young guy at the bottom of a frckn river dead as a doorknob.

come on...why do any of you care about any of these people, there children are only a few years away from being thrown into the ranks of these murderers, there women make great suicide bombers!

I cant respect anyone who would give these people anything other than a slow painful death.....and yes it is stooping down to their level....I think that might be the way to actually win this war...let thise bottom feeders know we arent fcking around anymore.
 
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Bah, pwn3d. I meant prisoners of the US. Now go read it again. :p
 
roids1

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Perhaps if we treated their guys the same way they treat ours, they'd think twice before butchering the next one of our soldies they catch.
 
searl12

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Perhaps if we treated their guys the same way they treat ours, they'd think twice before butchering the next one of our soldies they catch.
ya or they would become even more barbaric...I say send in roaming mop up squads, kill anyone who doesnt leave said area, then move to the next village, there all in on it...they act nice to our soldiers faces, then run and detonate an ied, or inform the enemy of positions or future moves...there all one in the same.

And there all the enemy in my opinion. They leave their own dead in ditches, dont bury them, they wipe their a szes with their dresses, there human filth, garbage, nomad barbarians, the world would be better without any of them.
 
searl12

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Now, tell us how you really feel! :lmao:
ever since a brother I knew had his face blown off by those scum in Afghanistan My h8 for all of them knows no boundries....and I mean all of them! you catch my drift.
 
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First rule of all war, dehumanize the enemy. Those aren't kids whose entrails are scattered across the landscape, they're just animals. Of course that they respond as humans would respond to our continued meddling in their part of the world belies this line of bull****. But hell, who care? The only lives worth a damn on this planet are American lives anyway. Other people... oh, erm, uh, people-shaped animals I should say, should be happy to haul our **** for us.
 
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ever since a brother I knew had his face blown off by those scum in Afghanistan My h8 for all of them knows no boundries....and I mean all of them! you catch my drift.
Count the dead on either side and you'll find a **** load more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Oh wait, never mind. They're just animals.
 
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ever since a brother I knew had his face blown off by those scum in Afghanistan My h8 for all of them knows no boundries....and I mean all of them! you catch my drift.
Count the dead on either side and you'll find just as many if not likely a lot more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US backed allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Catch my drift?
 
roids1

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Count the dead on either side and you'll find just as many if not likely a lot more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US backed allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Catch my drift?
Germany and Japan lost more people in WWII than we did. Does that make us the aggressors and them the victims?
 
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Count the dead on either side and you'll find just as many if not likely a lot more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US backed allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Catch my drift?
either way I pick my side, my way of life....Im not even American, Im Canadian, i will always back our troops, our way of life....even if I end up being wrong....by the way if your white...and you went there as a non combatant....you would be kidnapped and promptly executed on the internet, yet for some reason you want to show sympatthy for these people? their way of life? just remember dude, I promise you they are all in on it together, they dont like you, never have, never will, I think you need to simply pick a side, because we are at war with Islam whether we like it or not.
 
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Count the dead on either side and you'll find just as many if not likely a lot more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US backed allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Catch my drift?
google beheading of russian soldier, that video will change your life...keep you up AT NIGHT, curdle your blood, these are the same islamic scum we fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, plz after you watch it tell me how u feel about them? their religion which encourages this crap!

I warn you though, if you even dare watch it...it is the worst thing you will ever see hearing 19 year old boy gurgle on his windpipe while a savage barbarian cuts his throat while another sub human films it.

To put it best these are sub humans.
 
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either way I pick my side, my way of life....Im not even American, Im Canadian, i will always back our troops, our way of life....even if I end up being wrong....by the way if your white...and you went there as a non combatant....you would be kidnapped and promptly executed on the internet, yet for some reason you want to show sympatthy for these people? their way of life? just remember dude, I promise you they are all in on it together, they dont like you, never have, never will, I think you need to simply pick a side, because we are at war with Islam whether we like it or not.
Funny, I know more than few Muslims at last count and none of them are at war with me or the US or want to be. You are using a personal loss to justify a disgusting and irrational mentality that will do nothing in the end but breed more hate, more violence, and more death.
 
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google beheading of russian soldier, that video will change your life...keep you up AT NIGHT, curdle your blood, these are the same islamic scum we fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, plz after you watch it tell me how u feel about them? their religion which encourages this crap!

I warn you though, if you even dare watch it...it is the worst thing you will ever see hearing 19 year old boy gurgle on his windpipe while a savage barbarian cuts his throat while another sub human films it.

To put it best these are sub humans.
Already seen it and all the beheading videos. They prove nothing except the existence of cruelty among all humans. Google Vietnam and Ears and see how many American GIs collected VC body parts. It's not like there's a correlation between ridiculous cruelty and skin color / religion, unless of course you want to see one because it then offers some justification for your own malevolant attitudes towards other people.
 
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Quit using barbarian in this context. It makes no sense (it means an unsophisticated outsider essentially, but has been perverted over the years). Violence begets violence and all it will do is escalate the revenge; to them, we can be considered "barbarians," but most are too ignorant and arrogant to see that.
 
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Funny, I know more than few Muslims at last count and none of them are at war with me or the US or want to be. You are using a personal loss to justify a disgusting and irrational mentality that will do nothing in the end but breed more hate, more violence, and more death.
ok but they do worship a religion founded by a pirate, a murderer, and a pedophile, and under their breath they support it, they certainly dont come out and denounce it do they.

you sound like a sympathizer to the enemy to be honest.

But hey, when things get real bad...which they will, you will pick a side, which one...im not sure...but you will have to pick one.
 
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ok but they do worship a religion founded by a pirate, a murderer, and a pedophile, and under their breath they support it, they certainly dont come out and denounce it do they.

you sound like a sympathizer to the enemy to be honest.

But hey, when things get real bad...which they will, you will pick a side, which one...im not sure...but you will have to pick one.
What's your religious background?
 
searl12

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Quit using barbarian in this context. It makes no sense (it means an unsophisticated outsider essentially, but has been perverted over the years). Violence begets violence and all it will do is escalate the revenge; to them, we can be considered "barbarians," but most are too ignorant and arrogant to see that.
wowo another person who is ok with soldiers being kidnapped, 9/11, the london bombings, the uss cole bombing, have you all forgotten all of this?

6000 men dead in Iraq? the beheading of nick berg, of daniel Pearl, of kenneth bigley?

Y should they get anything other than cold steel from the US air force?
 
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wowo another person who is ok with soldiers being kidnapped, 9/11, the london bombings, the uss cole bombing, have you all forgotten all of this?

6000 men dead in Iraq? the beheading of nick berg, of daniel Pearl, of kenneth bigley?

Y should they get anything other than cold steel from the US air force?
What about the 10's of 1000's of civilians that have been killed/raped at the hands of the US military over the past 20 years? Have you forgotten that? The recent influx of bombings is a retaliatory effort; if we didn't have our military always stationed there and imposing our will upon their region, maybe they'd be a tad more relaxed. You forgot about the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania as well.
 
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What about the 10's of 1000's of civilians that have been killed/raped at the hands of the US military over the past 20 years? Have you forgotten that? The recent influx of bombings is a retaliatory effort; if we didn't have our military always stationed there and imposing our will upon their region, maybe they'd be a tad more relaxed. You forgot about the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania as well.
I cant argue with people who sympathize with the enemies of our way of life. When will you fools realize they are at war with us, were at war with us before we even went in to their countries, they dont like either of you, your infidels to them, unless your one of them, your way of life would be enough for them to kill yoou....tha is a barbaric thought , a barbaric way of life, and like I said a sub human race that isnt contributing to anything in this world.
 
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I cant argue with people who sympathize with the enemies of our way of life. When will you fools realize they are at war with us, were at war with us before we even went in to their countries, they dont like either of you, your infidels to them, unless your one of them, your way of life would be enough for them to kill yoou....tha is a barbaric thought , a barbaric way of life, and like I said a sub human race that isnt contributing to anything in this world.
Please explain to me how genocide is not a "barbaric" thought?
 
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ok but they do worship a religion founded by a pirate, a murderer, and a pedophile, and under their breath they support it, they certainly dont come out and denounce it do they.
Don't know and don't care. Like most Christians I know, they tend to ignore the ridiculous and irrational parts of their religion.

you sound like a sympathizer to the enemy to be honest.
Whereas you sound immature, naive, provincial, uninformed, hateful, hypocritical, and juvenile.
 
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can I ask what your family background is? religion ? place of birth?
German, Portugese, and Dutch originally. Family has been in the US for over 100 years. Non practicing protestant. New York.
 
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Don't know and don't care. Like most Christians I know, they tend to ignore the ridiculous and irrational parts of their religion.



Whereas you sound immature, naive, provincial, uninformed, hateful, hypocritical, and juvenile.
and you live in a fairytale where all religions and people hold hands and sing songs, not reality!
 
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Please explain to me how genocide is not a "barbaric" thought?
when has America, canada britian...our allies commited genocide? these people commit genocide against their own people, and you are standing up for them, mmaaann.
 
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I cant argue with people who sympathize with the enemies of our way of life. When will you fools realize they are at war with us, were at war with us before we even went in to their countries, they dont like either of you, your infidels to them, unless your one of them, your way of life would be enough for them to kill yoou....tha is a barbaric thought , a barbaric way of life, and like I said a sub human race that isnt contributing to anything in this world.


when has America, canada britian...our allies commited genocide? these people commit genocide against their own people, and you are standing up for them, mmaaann.
This phrase condones not only the murdering of them, but also suggests they should be eliminated from the planet. It's exactly this arrogant thinking that inspires most of the radical Muslims to commit the very acts that have started the most recent foreign invasion in the region.
 
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wowo another person who is ok with soldiers being kidnapped, 9/11, the london bombings, the uss cole bombing, have you all forgotten all of this?
No, we're just intelligent enough to realize that these were acts committed by small groups of individuals, not the entirety of the Muslim world. As it is one of the largest religions on the planet, you apparently think the planes used in 9/11 wer capable of carrying several billion passengers and most of them survived.

6000 men dead in Iraq?
That you bring up Iraq and our lost soldiers there is indicative of your largely uninformed, provincial, naive view of the situation. Iraq was a war of choice, Saddam posed little to no threat to the US and had few if any ties to Al Qeda and none to 9/11 specifically. Many more times 6000 Iraqis were killed in this war, and most of them were not militants but civilians. Now I realize that means jack **** to you. However, if we move on the admittedly questionable assumption that those Iraqis were humans and not animals, and that they lived and felt as humans, and that other humans were in the general vicinity that cared about them and might be slightly pissed that the brains of their family and friends were spilled into the sand, well that might go a long way toward explaining the level of hostillity the US is held in that part of the world.
 
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wow, im in shock, how quickly and ignorantly you have forgotten of all your countries war dead, the thousands dead on 9/ll etc etc, just remember people like me wil ldo the fighting when the war gets even worse while people like you will defend those very people im fighting...you should be real proud o be an American right now.....your countrymen suffer while you defend the very people who are killin g them.

Bravo.
 
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when has America, canada britian...our allies commited genocide? these people commit genocide against their own people, and you are standing up for them, mmaaann.
Well, the list of enslavement, "gentrification", land appropriation and the like of those three countries on indigenous populations is fairly well established; however, that is pretty incidental to the point being made here. Interestingly enough, this post of your illuminates the mind-set that acts committed upon more or less "barbarian" peoples is justifiable, so long as it is done in the interests of a select few.
 
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and you live in a fairytale where all religions and people hold hands and sing songs, not reality!
You are also irrational. I haven't expressed anything of my worldview in this thread beyond the fact that I think people who happen to not be US citizens are also humans and entitled to certain basic rights. You have no clue what my views on foreign policy are, other than the horrible, irrational, completely unbelievable idea that our continued meddling in that portion of the world just might have something to do with why there's so much hostility toward the US in the area.
 
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I am not an idiot, I do obviousy get the points these people make, I just choose my soldiers, my side over theirs, no matter what the cost or what people think, these guys sound like the same people who spit on Vietnam war veterans for doing what their country told them to do.
 
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You are also irrational. I haven't expressed anything of my worldview in this thread beyond the fact that I think people who happen to not be US citizens are also humans and entitled to certain basic rights. You have no clue what my views on foreign policy are, other than the horrible, irrational, completely unbelievable idea that our continued meddling in that portion of the world just might have something to do with why there's so much hostility toward the US in the area.
you just live on the fence, do wahts best for you, and never make a stand behind your own country, I have more pride and loyalty to my country than theirs, and again if you havent noticed im not an American, I get angry when i see mothers of fallen sons, wives of 23 year old boys ied by savages, your right my h8 is based on personal loss, I respect your not at war with these people but I sure as hell am!
 
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I am not an idiot, I do obviousy get the points these people make, I just choose my soldiers, my side over theirs, no matter what the cost or what people think, these guys sound like the same people who spit on Vietnam war veterans for doing what their country told them to do.
This is partially the issue. I guess you forgot this was the defense used many, many times during the Nuremberg trials...
 
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like I said, you would never serve, never pick a side, you just live for yourself, selfish typical human, never shed a tear when your heroes fall, change the channel so you dont have to deal with it....were just different.
 
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you just live on the fence, do wahts best for you, and never make a stand behind your own country!
He is, which is something you are failing to come to terms with.
 
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like I said, you would never serve, never pick a side, you just live for yourself, selfish typical human, never shed a tear when your heroes fall, change the channel so you dont have to deal with it....were just different.
How does "just following orders" constitute a hero?
 
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Count the dead on either side and you'll find just as many if not likely a lot more people over there with brothers who have been thus dispatched, if not by US troops then by US backed allies and/or US supplied weapons. Which may explain their attitude toward us.

Catch my drift?
Muslim history goes back 2000 years. For the most part, they didn't make nice with non-Muslims; initially Mohammed made advances to the Jews and Zoroastrians of the ARabian Peninsula, but once he realized he wasn't going to gain converts, he resorted to pure force, and imposed Islam on the peninsula, and from there it spread to quite a large area, always by force.

There were times and places where Muslims lived in peace with others, even Jews, but for the most part people aren't going to give up their traditions and beliefs for another's without the threat of death.

Osama bin Laden desires the return to the days of the Caliphate empire. He is very direct in saying this, and doesn't *****foot around. His initial actions were against the Russians, who he wanted out of Afghanistan, and later to force the US out of all ARab countries. But wait, the King of SAudi ARabia is perfectly happy dealing with America, and allows the US to put military bases on Saudi soil. So why did OBL attack the US, and not the Saudis, the patron themselves? He essentially tried to impose his will on the SAudi gov't, that's HIS personal brand of politics through his personal Islamic filter.

Muslims ARE oppressed. They generally are very fractured, religiously and culturally, and put more stock in religion, tribes, and families than national identities. So the strongest religious sect/tribe/family tends to rule. Instead of taking responsibility for themselves, and bettering or changing themselves, they blame their problems on Israel or the WEst, and it's very convenient for their rulers to foament that kind of behavior, otherwise citizens might actually rise up against the people actually responsible for their plight.

It's not Israel, not the US. IF you're going to blame an outside source, England would take the largest share, but that's not even accurate. Muslims/Arabs need to start looking in at themselves and where they are currently at, and taking responsibility for where they find themselves, and changing it. WE didn't do it, we didn't cause it. They did. There have been MANY far more oppressed nations on earth, and none of them used suicide bombing and terror to express outrage for something they DIDN'T cause, let alone something they did.

It takes work, brains, a little brawn, and a lot of disgression to become a great nation or people. Muslims seem to be content whining about how great they were, wondering why they aren't great now, promoting a culture of violence and condoning the use of violence to accomplish goals or gain attention, and generally pissing on anyone not Muslim. Not all are terrorists, not even close; but very few denounce the terrorists, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard 'that's awful, but...you gotta understand' from a Muslim after or in reference to a terror attack, I'd be a rich man. No, I don't have to understand why some jackholes flew a plane into the WTC, or why some ignorant **** blew up 32 kids on a bus in Jerusalem. There's NO justification for it. It's exactly this apologetic attitude which enables the terrorists to continue what they do.

Imagine if Muslims had a REAL reason to be pissy, say, THEY were the focus of Hitlers Final Solution instead of the Jews, or the victims of Pol Pot. My goodness, we'd be in a world of hurt right now.
 
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how is not supporting your countries soldiers and war dead making a stand? a disgusting stand maybe.
He never claimed he did not support the soldiers and/or the war dead; in fact, that is your twisted misinterpretation - whether deliberate or via ignorance - of his statement. It is a common fallacy I see when "war" debates arise: any individual who has a philosophical or moral opposition to the policy decisions involved in a particular conflict must have a philosophical or moral opposition to the soldiers linked thereto. You are merely taking his premise and linking it to an entirely unrelated conclusion that seeks an emotional response from your audience.
 

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