Barrack Hussein Obama's healthcare plan good enough for us but not him!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by roids1 View Post
    This place seems to be a bastion of conservative thinkers. When I saw Anne Coulter books advertised on this site, I knew I was at home.
    Ann Coulter? Oh man, I think I'm gonna puke...

    youngandfree - I've recently lived in NYC and now CA and I can't imagine anywhere else being anything less than a downgrade. I'm sorry you flyover state folks, but it's true. Sure, it's expen$ive as hell...but you get what you pay for. If I wanted a $400/month apartment, I'd move to Oklahoma. But then again, I wouldn't do that......because that would mean I'd have to live in Oklahoma.

    Right now, I work full time, 40 hours a week, and do not receive health insurance. I've got a couple medical issues that I'd like to address, but don't have the $$$ to do so without said insurance.

    We shouldn't be so blind to reality as to think the US system is as good as it can be, nor should we think that the Canadian system is the end-all-be-all either. While the Canadian system may not be perfect, I'm not scared by the anecdotal evidence trotted out by those on this thread, nor the ones being trotted out by the likes of Levin, Savage, Hannity, etc. Oh, you had to wait a few hours in an ER to get stitches? Well, so have I, right here in the good ol US-and-A.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post



    We shouldn't be so blind to reality as to think the US system is as good as it can be, nor should we think that the Canadian system is the end-all-be-all either. While the Canadian system may not be perfect, I'm not scared by the anecdotal evidence trotted out by those on this thread, nor the ones being trotted out by the likes of Levin, Savage, Hannity, etc. Oh, you had to wait a few hours in an ER to get stitches? So have I, right here in the good ol US-and-A.
    This is because the law mandates that NOBODY can be turned away - even if they have no money to pay.

    If ERs could filter out deadbeats and non-emergency patients, without fear of lawsuit, then there would be significantly less wait.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    Ann Coulter? Oh man, I think I'm gonna puke...

    youngandfree - I've recently lived in NYC and now CA and I can't imagine anywhere else being anything less than a downgrade. I'm sorry you flyover state folks, but it's true. Sure, it's expen$ive as hell...but you get what you pay for. If I wanted a $400/month apartment, I'd move to Oklahoma. But then again, I wouldn't do that......because that would mean I'd have to live in Oklahoma.

    Right now, I work full time, 40 hours a week, and do not receive health insurance. I've got a couple medical issues that I'd like to address, but don't have the $$$ to do so without said insurance.

    We shouldn't be so blind to reality as to think the US system is as good as it can be, nor should we think that the Canadian system is the end-all-be-all either. While the Canadian system may not be perfect, I'm not scared by the anecdotal evidence trotted out by those on this thread, nor the ones being trotted out by the likes of Levin, Savage, Hannity, etc. Oh, you had to wait a few hours in an ER to get stitches? Well, so have I, right here in the good ol US-and-A. :usa3:
    Really... CA, and NYC are the shining beacons of the USA? Nice.

    No one said the US system was as good as it gets... the HEALTH CARE is as good as it gets, you will not find better doctors anywhere.

    Now, why should I ever pay anyone else but my own families health care? I honestly do not care what type of care you receive if any. I work hard here in the good old midwest, and make enough money in the midwest to pay for my families healthcare.

    All without a degree.

    Again, why do you deserve my dollar to sew up your knees?
    The Historic PES Legend

  4. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    This is because the law mandates that NOBODY can be turned away - even if they have no money to pay.

    If ERs could filter out deadbeats and non-emergency patients, without fear of lawsuit, then there would be significantly less wait.
    At the time, I had health insurance through my previous employer, so it was OK. What if (for the sake of this argument) I did not have that insurance? (as I currently don't) Then, what would've/should've happened to me? I had a gash on my hand and was bleeding and in need of stitches. Without insurance, should they have turned me away because I was a "deadbeat"?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    At the time, I had health insurance through my previous employer, so it was OK. What if (for the sake of this argument) I did not have that insurance? (as I currently don't) Then, what would've/should've happened to me? I had a gash on my hand and was bleeding and in need of stitches. Without insurance, should they have turned me away because I was a "deadbeat"?
    Oh, and the ER is a triage environment... because you have the shiny gold ticket of insurance does not put you in front of the severely wounded. Your cut was obviously not arterial, or you would been placed ahead of line. So obviously people in the ER are all being treated the same... insurance or not... pretty novel.
    The Historic PES Legend
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    This is because the law mandates that NOBODY can be turned away - even if they have no money to pay.
    and if they do have money, we won't settle for less than the full medical charge - not that measly 25-40% that insurance pays. lets make those without insurance who have money fork over everything they can.

    to give a complete rundown of my G/F, and her surgeries:
    hysterectomy (at 29)
    bulging disk in spine replaced (unsuccessful surgery)
    gall bladder removed
    appendix removed
    2 c-sections
    mole on back that was cancerous (removed)
    lump on thyroid (mom has graves disease, dad has hashimoto's)
    stopped breathing when prescribed morphine
    allergies : morphine, penicillin, bees

    ask me how an 800k bank account can reach 62k in 3 years.... and of course nobody will insure her for obvious reasons. and we can't pay the same rates that insurance pays for the same crap. if we did, her account would still be around 250k or more. IMO that translates to the hospitals stealing at least 200k from her because the law says they can...

    of course there's those who think that the status quo are the way to go, until you loose a job and the insurance that goes with it, and then loose your house when an uninsured broke guy t-bones and paralyzes your wife and you get the hospital bill....

    /end rant
    out.

    EDIT : now she has a torn ACL and meniscus, so i assume she'll loose the rest of her savings pretty quick. yay.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Oh, and the ER is a triage environment... because you have the shiny gold ticket of insurance does not put you in front of the severely wounded. Your cut was obviously not arterial, or you would been placed ahead of line. So obviously people in the ER are all being treated the same... insurance or not... pretty novel.
    I wouldn't expect to be placed at "the head of the line" because I've got insurance, or for any reason other than the severity of the injury. I simply would not have been able to afford the ER's services had it not been for my insurance. dsade intimated that ER's become overcrowded and less efficient because they aren't allowed to "weed out deadbeats"...which I would have been, had I not had insurance.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    Ann Coulter? Oh man, I think I'm gonna puke...

    youngandfree - I've recently lived in NYC and now CA and I can't imagine anywhere else being anything less than a downgrade. I'm sorry you flyover state folks, but it's true. Sure, it's expen$ive as hell...but you get what you pay for. If I wanted a $400/month apartment, I'd move to Oklahoma. But then again, I wouldn't do that......because that would mean I'd have to live in Oklahoma.

    Right now, I work full time, 40 hours a week, and do not receive health insurance. I've got a couple medical issues that I'd like to address, but don't have the $$$ to do so without said insurance.

    You don't think that if you weren't paying so much money in unneccessary taxes you could afford insurance. Why is is that NYC has one of the highest tax rates? Why are so many wealthy people leaving NY because of the abnormally high tax rate? Why can't the ones in charge realize they are driving away their own tax revenue? So how do they correct the shortfall, not cut spending, just increase the taxes on those that remain. How can you justify what California is going through financially and feel good about it? Florida has weather just as nice, property just as nice, and a fiscally responsible legislature that keeps taxes down and yet the state thrives.

    We shouldn't be so blind to reality as to think the US system is as good as it can be, nor should we think that the Canadian system is the end-all-be-all either. While the Canadian system may not be perfect, I'm not scared by the anecdotal evidence trotted out by those on this thread, nor the ones being trotted out by the likes of Levin, Savage, Hannity, etc. Oh, you had to wait a few hours in an ER to get stitches? Well, so have I, right here in the good ol US-and-A.

    me in BOLD

  9. Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    and if they do have money, we won't settle for less than the full medical charge - not that measly 25-40% that insurance pays. lets make those without insurance who have money fork over everything they can.

    to give a complete rundown of my G/F, and her surgeries:
    hysterectomy (at 29)
    bulging disk in spine replaced (unsuccessful surgery)
    gall bladder removed
    appendix removed
    2 c-sections
    mole on back that was cancerous (removed)
    lump on thyroid (mom has graves disease, dad has hashimoto's)
    stopped breathing when prescribed morphine
    allergies : morphine, penicillin, bees

    ask me how an 800k bank account can reach 62k in 3 years.... and of course nobody will insure her for obvious reasons. and we can't pay the same rates that insurance pays for the same crap. if we did, her account would still be around 250k. IMO that translates to the hospitals stealing almost 200k from her because the law says they can...

    of course there's those who think that the status quo are the way to go, until you loose a job and the insurance that goes with it, and then loose your house when an uninsured broke guy t-bones and paralyzes your wife and you get the hospital bill....

    /end rant
    out.
    Oh... man... glad you brought all of this up.

    Guess what, you know why health care is so expensive... it isn't because of private insurance companies. Health care was fine when it was only private companies helped manage peoples health care. health care has no magic bullet that gives them the rights to charge out the ass, it's all around making a profit, and if money is being taken from somewhere, it has to be recouped elsewhere.

    Now, lets bring in the government.

    Medicare
    Medicaid
    Medicaid-D
    S-CHIP
    HMO's

    All products from the governments that does not pay services in a fashion that will even break even. The government programs pay what they feel is good to pay, which is below operating costs for a hospital. Remove those entities and prices drop dramatically.

    So now, we fix government **** ups with more government programs? Whats next, spending our way out of debt?

    Government caused the crisis!
    The Historic PES Legend

  10. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    me in BOLD
    Funny you mention flordia... cause somehow, someway, they do it without a state income tax.
    The Historic PES Legend

  11. Guess where I am going when I relocate if Virginia doesn't get their head out of the toilet and get rid of the Obama butt kissers in power. Governor Kaine ( on the way out anyway), Senators Mark Warner and Jim Webb. My wife has family in FL, so it's very hard to not try to transfer my job and move.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Funny you mention flordia... cause somehow, someway, they do it without a state income tax.
    You mean they actually balance their budget without a state income tax? Gee, I don't see how that's possible since NY, MI, CA and others can't do it with stupid high income tax rates.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    At the time, I had health insurance through my previous employer, so it was OK. What if (for the sake of this argument) I did not have that insurance? (as I currently don't) Then, what would've/should've happened to me? I had a gash on my hand and was bleeding and in need of stitches. Without insurance, should they have turned me away because I was a "deadbeat"?
    Then you prove you can pay for it.

    As mentioned above, does your injured hand give you a right to my wallet?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    hope your girl is doing well cloud, it shows that some things are out of ones control, but hey according to my fellow Canadian she isnt worth healthcare and its all her fault for having these illnesses....shame on your girlfriend for getting sick suncloud...its all her fault cause of her diet....pffff ya frck right!!!
    thanks searl.

    what's funny, is my G/F hovers between a size 0-2, eats all organic, doesn't smoke, etc. she exercised 5x per week, and with a torn ACL still swims 3x per week.

    SWG - nothing against you, but there's no way in hell, she could have taken better care of herself. i suspect half her problems stemmed from birth, as she's 5'11", large hands and feet (size 11 shoes), and skinny. this reeks of a naturally high GH level, which is a breeding ground for cancer of any form.

    /out for good in politics. bleh.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Then you prove you can pay for it.

    As mentioned above, does your injured hand give you a right to my wallet?
    Whos coming after your wallet? whatever happened to caring for others, even if it costs you a few more $ in taxes, why is everyone so fckn ruthless these Days?

    Just wait everyone, when sickness comes for you, due to your fault or not your fault and you need help! would liek it if everyone simply said Im not helping you? your not worth it? how about this no human life should have a price on it, were all equal, even the homeless, there just as equal to any of us, we all bleed the same....this type of ruthlessness has fcked us all.

    Im just waiting for my yahoo canadian hypacrit then I will never return to this ridiculious thread filled with so many nasty heartless people.

    Love your neighbour? ring a bell? help a stranger? no...anyone?

    pffff

  16. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    Whos coming after your wallet? whatever happened to caring for others, even if it costs you a few more $ in taxes, why is everyone so fckn ruthless these Days?

    Just wait everyone, when sickness comes for you, due to your fault or not your fault and you need help! would liek it if everyone simply said Im not helping you? your not worth it? how about this no human life should have a price on it, were all equal, even the homeless, there just as equal to any of us, we all bleed the same....this type of ruthlessness has fcked us all.

    Im just waiting for my yahoo canadian hypacrit then I will never return to this ridiculious thread filled with so many nasty heartless people.

    Love your neighbour? ring a bell? help a stranger? no...anyone?

    pffff
    Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness no where states that the collective will support the collective. DSade pays his families bills and healthcare, why should he pay anyone elses? America was built on personal liberties and freedoms, not propping up the weakest.

    Those few $'s are adding up very quickly. private charities has always helped out the poor with healthcare, why did it work then, and now it is not the answer.

    Call me heartless all you wish, I support my family effectively through hard work, sweat, blood, and tears. I do not expect my family to be cared for by other, and do not want my family to be cared for by others.

    A universal care plan only works if the rich are involved. Try setting that plan up with the poor, and only tax the poor. Not big on redistribution.
    The Historic PES Legend

  17. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    Whos coming after your wallet? whatever happened to caring for others, even if it costs you a few more $ in taxes, why is everyone so fckn ruthless these Days?

    Just wait everyone, when sickness comes for you, due to your fault or not your fault and you need help! would liek it if everyone simply said Im not helping you? your not worth it? how about this no human life should have a price on it, were all equal, even the homeless, there just as equal to any of us, we all bleed the same....this type of ruthlessness has fcked us all.

    Im just waiting for my yahoo canadian hypacrit then I will never return to this ridiculious thread filled with so many nasty heartless people.

    Love your neighbour? ring a bell? help a stranger? no...anyone?

    pffff
    I help plenty of people...when I choose and when I can afford it. Come at me with a gun and try to take my resources against my will and you will be treated as the thug you are acting like.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    Whos coming after your wallet? whatever happened to caring for others, even if it costs you a few more $ in taxes, why is everyone so fckn ruthless these Days?

    Just wait everyone, when sickness comes for you, due to your fault or not your fault and you need help! would liek it if everyone simply said Im not helping you? your not worth it? how about this no human life should have a price on it, were all equal, even the homeless, there just as equal to any of us, we all bleed the same....this type of ruthlessness has fcked us all.

    Im just waiting for my yahoo canadian hypacrit then I will never return to this ridiculious thread filled with so many nasty heartless people.

    Love your neighbour? ring a bell? help a stranger? no...anyone?

    pffff
    When the government mandates that I pay for someone else's "healthcare", which I already do in medicare and social security taxes, they are forcefully taking my money. I am a generous and giving person. I will give to the charities, friends, families, people I decide, not lazy people on the government handout program. people are ruthless about it because the amount of tax money they have taken over the last few decades haven't done anything to improve the situation. Time and time again, the government has proven itself to be incapable of running a "profitable" organization. When the government spends other people's money on goods or services that someone else is going to use, they don't care what the quality or cost of good or services is. It's called third party spending. you only care about the quality and cost when it's your money being spent on something you are going to use. Otherwise, you aren't harmed in anyway with wasteful spending on crap product or service.

    People talk about spending a couple extra bucks in taxes for everyone else's right to healthcare. Let me ask this. How many people tip their servers 25% regardless of the performance, and if the person is having a bad night, give them more? How many compassionate liberals will actually give some money to the person asking for some? Or better yet, just take them and buy them some food or clothes or a tank of gas.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...c5ZmYxNjI1Zjg=

    Funny how the "compassionates" want to take away the tax deduction for charitable giving yet are going to force people into giving to charity cases on the government handout system.

  19. It's a philisophical difference that I don't believe will change as a result of this thread.


    "I'm a hard-working person without insurance. If I'm sick or injured, why should I be denied medical attention or sink into never-ending debt?"

    vs

    "If you can't pay, then screw off....die slowly or let your leg fall off for all I care, just don't tax me."


    Finding a middle ground that is acceptable to both camps is as difficult and delicate an issue as I can think of. I hope the end result isn't too much to the detriment of either side.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    IM ACTING LIKE A THUG? your joking right? i dont own a gun, in canada we all dont tote guns...ok?

    I have a clean criminal record...do you? if you dont are you a thug?

    you almost sound like your coming close to threatening me..."come try to make me do this and ill fckn kil lyou" is that how you live your life? if so dude, you belong in prison and if youve never been Im assuming you will be soon enough with that type of attitude, your gun talk doesnt scare me, Ive fired real guns, pop guns dont scare me dude.
    Dude, Chill out... his comments are rhetorical, and you are taking them as being completely serious. Metaphorically speaking.
    The Historic PES Legend

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    Ann Coulter? Oh man, I think I'm gonna puke...

    youngandfree - I've recently lived in NYC and now CA and I can't imagine anywhere else being anything less than a downgrade. I'm sorry you flyover state folks, but it's true. Sure, it's expen$ive as hell...but you get what you pay for. If I wanted a $400/month apartment, I'd move to Oklahoma. But then again, I wouldn't do that......because that would mean I'd have to live in Oklahoma.

    Right now, I work full time, 40 hours a week, and do not receive health insurance. I've got a couple medical issues that I'd like to address, but don't have the $$$ to do so without said insurance.

    We shouldn't be so blind to reality as to think the US system is as good as it can be, nor should we think that the Canadian system is the end-all-be-all either. While the Canadian system may not be perfect, I'm not scared by the anecdotal evidence trotted out by those on this thread, nor the ones being trotted out by the likes of Levin, Savage, Hannity, etc. Oh, you had to wait a few hours in an ER to get stitches? Well, so have I, right here in the good ol US-and-A.
    Of course you aren't scared about universal healthcare. You are going to get it if it goes through.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JW32Hoops View Post
    It's a philisophical difference that I don't believe will change as a result of this thread.


    "I'm a hard-working person without insurance. If I'm sick or injured, why should I be denied medical attention or sink into never-ending debt?"

    vs

    "If you can't pay, then screw off....die slowly or let your leg fall off for all I care, just don't tax me."


    Finding a middle ground that is acceptable to both camps is as difficult and delicate an issue as I can think of. I hope the end result isn't too much to the detriment of either side.
    Your separation there is uncanny. You make your beliefs sound like green pasture's and the opposite as brutal ass holes.

    Health care has been provided for free prior to medicare/medicaid. Private charities has always helped the poor and lower income families obtaint he care they needed. Forcing my hand though is asinine.
    The Historic PES Legend

  23. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    Of course you aren't scared about universal healthcare. You are going to get it if it goes through.
    Indeed.

  24. ive made my points, and I am not foolish enough to believe that my views are for everyone, and although I may not like them i still listen, I got heated here over an arguement that cannot be won, were all different, thats the beauty of all of this.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by searl12 View Post
    IM ACTING LIKE A THUG? your joking right? i dont own a gun, in canada we all dont tote guns...ok?

    I have a clean criminal record...do you? if you dont are you a thug?

    you almost sound like your coming close to threatening me..."come try to make me do this and ill fckn kil lyou" is that how you live your life? if so dude, you belong in prison and if youve never been Im assuming you will be soon enough with that type of attitude, your gun talk doesnt scare me, Ive fired real guns, pop guns dont scare me dude.
    Wow...take a pill. I am speaking to a government, and a populace, that holds the misconception that my resources are there for the taking to fill the need of others and if I am not willing to surrender them under the name of socialism, then they will be forcefully taken from me.

    And yes, to them it is a threat that is coming quickly.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
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