Obama's White House is Falling Down

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by lozgod View Post
    This is correct. Religion was considered tyranny by the founders of this country. That was one of the main reasons for breaking away from England. They believed no one should be persecuted for their beliefs.
    This is at base incorrect. The problem they saw was the mix of government and religion. They wanted religion free of government and government free of religion because of the corrupting power each had on the other. Saying they were deists is technically correct while ignoring the change in context of that word in time. Deism back then was a hell of a lot more religious than it would be considered now. What we now consider religious persecution they likely would have seen as maintaining basic community standards.

    And they wanted it kept free from the federal government. Several state churches were already established at the time of ratification and no one saw that as incompatible with the constitution. Then as now, immgration patterns held and like minded people tended to stick together, states were very homogenous when it came to their religion. As such... "I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson


  2. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    This is at base incorrect. The problem they saw was the mix of government and religion. They wanted religion free of government and government free of religion because of the corrupting power each had on the other. Saying they were deists is technically correct while ignoring the change in context of that word in time. Deism back then was a hell of a lot more religious than it would be considered now. What we now consider religious persecution they likely would have seen as maintaining basic community standards.

    And they wanted it kept free from the federal government. Several state churches were already established at the time of ratification and no one saw that as incompatible with the constitution. Then as now, immgration patterns held and like minded people tended to stick together, states were very homogenous when it came to their religion. As such... "I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson
    I just didnt feel like saying all that. lol. I gave the abridged version. Like saying the Civil War was over slavery. Thanks for elaborating.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by lozgod View Post
    I just didnt feel like saying all that. lol. I gave the abridged version. Like saying the Civil War was over slavery. Thanks for elaborating.
    That's at base incorrect...

  4. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    The only ray of hope right now are two bills sitting in the house and senate, that prompt an audit of The Fed. If people see the real thief behind the curtain they may go another way, but I doubt it. Even if it passes the rhetoric surrounding The Fed's actions will be keynesian and/or monetarist in nature, few if anyone will likely demand they stop the printing presses.
    no chance of that happening

  5. the raising of minimum wage is part of what is pulling our economy down. The people who know a thing or two about economics and how the government works are at their office somewhere, and the people who have no clue, but just want more money have time to go vote for the raised minimum wage. It creates a surplus of workers, lowers the standard of living, and just is a dumb idea.... but the government doesn't want all the mcdonalds workers to know that they are actually digging themselves deeper in the hole.

    If this country does go down the path of socialism, which it appears to be slowly doing, it will get ugly. Universal health care is just not an option, and if tax's are lowered that means somewhere else something is going up that you pay for. It is all strategy the government plays.

    I am neither conservative or liberal, as their are certain things I like/dislike about either party, but damn... as our population is getting poorer and poorer, and the uneducated group is growing it is just going to continue to get worse unless someone explains to them exactly what is happening to them.
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  6. Minimum wage is the chiuaua of economics. It's something that makes a lot of noise and you oppose on technical grounds, but really doesn't add up to much. Yes, technically it leads to a surplus of labor at the margins. Bottom line though is that tendency has likely been overshadowed by inflation and regulation. Or, put otherwise, congress is not likely to raise the minimum wage by X amount until X amount is marginally meaningless thanks to inflation, and their labor regulations other than minimum wage probably have more to do with denying people the opportunity to work than minimum wage itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    the raising of minimum wage is part of what is pulling our economy down. The people who know a thing or two about economics and how the government works are at their office somewhere, and the people who have no clue, but just want more money have time to go vote for the raised minimum wage. It creates a surplus of workers, lowers the standard of living, and just is a dumb idea.... but the government doesn't want all the mcdonalds workers to know that they are actually digging themselves deeper in the hole.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Minimum wage is the chiuaua of economics. It's something that makes a lot of noise and you oppose on technical grounds, but really doesn't add up to much. Yes, technically it leads to a surplus of labor at the margins. Bottom line though is that tendency has likely been overshadowed by inflation and regulation. Or, put otherwise, congress is not likely to raise the minimum wage by X amount until X amount is marginally meaningless thanks to inflation, and their labor regulations other than minimum wage probably have more to do with denying people the opportunity to work than minimum wage itself.
    Your idea works in theory, but you have to also understand the illegal population that is willing to work under the now inflated minimum wage standard. Thus a farther disconnect with the economic institutions become evident.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  8. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Your idea works in theory, but you have to also understand the illegal population that is willing to work under the now inflated minimum wage standard. Thus a farther disconnect with the economic institutions become evident.

    Adams
    Boom, off topic but close to topic, a good percentage of that minimum wage pay is being sent out of the country. Back to their families. Does that strengthen or weaken us economically?

  9. Here is something to think about and off topic when it comes to religion and gov't. But is relevant to Obama being out of control. Friday, the House passed the Cap and Tax bill, after adding 300 pages of amendments at 3am on friday morning, then calling for a vote 9 hours later. No one that voted could have possibly read the entire 1000 pages, let alone the 300 pages added at 3 am. When Nancy Pelosi was asked if she would post the "Obama Care" plan on the gov't website for everyone to see for 5 days, like Obama himself promised would be done on any legislation, before calling for a vote, she simply said "NO." Obama is trying to ram so much through before enough people open their eyes and wake up to what is going on and try to change course. He knows his days are numbered when it comes to having a free pass and his popularity ratings stay high. And by staging a "town hall" at the White House with handpicked supporters and selectively reading questions that were submitted "by the people" that only support your agenda, is hardly verification that everyone in America wants "change".

    Cap and Tax: Tim Kaine, head of DNC, Governor of VA was asked if a Cap and Tax policy would be ideal for the commonwealth of Va. He said of course, no way. It would be a job killer, and force companies to move jobs to countries that don't have such nonsense taxes. Why is it not good for "his" state, while he is in charge, but it is a good idea for the Feds to impose it on the entire country? The very same reason it's bad for VA is the reason it's bad for the entire country. But Kaine, and Mark Warner and Jim Webb are puppets to Obama's machine and are willing to sacrifice the entire country to further his agenda, but wouldn't consider doing it at the state level if VA was the only state affected.

  10. So I'm curious... what are yalls thoughts on the Usury laws he just passed, even though those are among the worst things to do IMO.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by lozgod View Post
    Boom, off topic but close to topic, a good percentage of that minimum wage pay is being sent out of the country. Back to their families. Does that strengthen or weaken us economically?
    Money Out vs. Money In creates a ravine of empty debt that ironically cannot be paid by the debtee's without creating more money. In effect devaluing our dollar, requiring more borrowing, insighting more debt. This has been the grand scheme of the Federal Reserve since the Great Depression, now we get GD2.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  12. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Money Out vs. Money In creates a ravine of empty debt that ironically cannot be paid by the debtee's without creating more money. In effect devaluing our dollar, requiring more borrowing, insighting more debt. This has been the grand scheme of the Federal Reserve since the Great Depression, now we get GD2.

    Adams
    yup, but we can't let the majority know we are at the equivalent of the Great Depression in modern times, panic will arise. 911 plans failed to meet the results they were hoping to attain in the short coming, but they sure have taken a toll in the long run exactly what those guys were looking to do. We have almost no friends in OPEC, so gas will continue to control us like a stick puppet. I am getting off topic, but man... we are at the whim of a few different countries ATM.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Your idea works in theory, but you have to also understand the illegal population that is willing to work under the now inflated minimum wage standard. Thus a farther disconnect with the economic institutions become evident.

    Adams
    Problem is their willingness to work isn't a strictly free market result. The price of the labor, that they're willing to accept, is influenced by a lot of things such as the relatively higher poverty rates at home and our relatively stronger currency, not to mention the fact that the employers get a more powerful hand in the relationship than if it were done above board.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    the raising of minimum wage is part of what is pulling our economy down.
    no, it was giving women the right to work. That effectively nearly doubled our labor supply, but didn't generate additional labor demand, effectively cutting pay in half.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    So I'm curious... what are yalls thoughts on the Usury laws he just passed, even though those are among the worst things to do IMO.
    I'm against usury laws in principle, but at this point in time as a practical matter I don't give a **** if bankers/creditors eat a big **** sandwich. They've been relying on government enablement and overly complex legalese ridden contracts to shaft consumers for years, **** 'em if they can't take a joke.

  16. Cut out the federal government....reduce it to what it was meant to be, a very small sized orginization to make sure things in the country went smoothly, and things would start to boom again. Also reverse most laws in the past 25 years LOL

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    Cut out the federal government....reduce it to what it was meant to be, a very small sized orginization to make sure things in the country went smoothly, and things would start to boom again. Also reverse most laws in the past 25 years LOL
    Really all you have to do is reiterate the 10th amendment. Take away the illusion of democracy and really instate it.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  18. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Really all you have to do is reiterate the 10th amendment. Take away the illusion of democracy and really instate it.

    Adams
    This requires a people willing to do so. A written constitution is a dead letter without the backing of the people to enforce its limitations on the government by whatever means necessary. Look at our current population. Not only do we have all the perverse incentive problems associated with the government, but they also control the education system and have the majority of the people out there thinking that the government is the source of all good things. These people are contemptuous of the market and the principles it works upon to deliver the plenty we are all used to.

    The prototypical member of our population today is someone of age 20-40, wearing a shirt with fabrics sourced from three continents and assembled in another, drinking a half creme triple pump vanilla flavored latte with milk from the farm belt, coffee from Columbia, in a cup made from plastic that came from China, and chemicals manufactured there as well, wearing glasses with lenses that are laser cut and made of some super polymer that both reduces glare an weight, sitting in front of a computer where the power supply was made in Asia, the case in Europe, the chips designed here in the US and manufactured God knows where in a multi billion dollar clean room facility, all of this dependent on accumulated capital going back centuries and spanning the planet, and this twit pops on to his favorite message board and while in the midst of this market provided plenty, villifies WalMart and writes about Obama and his government with religious zeal and approval, and expounds from the depths of his tenth grade government sponsored education on the subject on what the market is and is not capable of.

    Do you really see any end to this **** in sight? I don't. These people haven't read the constitution, much less the declaration, and surely have never bothered to peruse a classic like I, Pencil, to get a fuller understanding of how the world actually works. They take what they have for granted, never considering the delicate web of trade and capital accumulation that fuels their lifestyles, which is why they happily destroy it for ideological reasons and then shoot blame with the accuracy of a potato gun when their quality of life deteriorates.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    They take what they have for granted, never considering the delicate web of trade and capital accumulation that fuels their lifestyles, which is why they happily destroy it for ideological reasons and then shoot blame with the accuracy of a potato gun when their quality of life deteriorates.
    It is sad that we let the "progressives" take and keep control of our school system. Bill Ayers as a teacher? what?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, it was giving women the right to work. That effectively nearly doubled our labor supply, but didn't generate additional labor demand, effectively cutting pay in half.
    the continuing increase of minimum wage is not giving women more of a right to work, possibly the first decision to establish a minimum wage, but see the silly thing about minimum wage is that it is different for each established state, or area. A federal one does not really help the economy at this point in time from a standard of living standpoint.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    the continuing increase of minimum wage is not giving women more of a right to work, possibly the first decision to establish a minimum wage, but see the silly thing about minimum wage is that it is different for each established state, or area. A federal one does not really help the economy at this point in time from a standard of living standpoint.
    no silly, i'm saying that giving women the right to work is what is pulling our economy down, not the minimum wage

  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no silly, i'm saying that giving women the right to work is what is pulling our economy down, not the minimum wage
    Ah sorry I misinterpreted your joke. haha
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Persian1012 View Post
    No i did not. That is messed up. Only further proves my point that Obama is morally corrupt.
    Illinois General Assembly Senate bill 0099, An Act Concerning Education. Read the bill for yourself. I'll get you the PDF of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge suggested curriculum later tonight or tomorrow. It's chock full of brilliant ideas. Teaching bisexuality and homosexuality as societal norms, explicit descriptions of sex acts, as well as in depth discussions of ones own "sexual feelings" all starting in kindergarden as part of the k-12 program. Obama's stated rational is that it woould help children better be able to respond to sexual predators...

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/93/S...00SB0099lv.pdf

  24. Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Illinois General Assembly Senate bill 0099, An Act Concerning Education. Read the bill for yourself. I'll get you the PDF of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge suggested curriculum later tonight or tomorrow. It's chock full of brilliant ideas. Teaching bisexuality and homosexuality as societal norms, explicit descriptions of sex acts, as well as in depth discussions of ones own "sexual feelings" all starting in kindergarden as part of the k-12 program. Obama's stated rational is that it woould help children better be able to respond to sexual predators...
    that bill in itself would make me feel pretty damn uncomfortable. Little kids are ready for that kind of stuff, I would push that off till about 6 or 7th grade when it is appropriate.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    that bill in itself would make me feel pretty damn uncomfortable. Little kids are ready for that kind of stuff, I would push that off till about 6 or 7th grade when it is appropriate.
    Anatomical discussions may be appropriate at some point in public school (middle school or whatever) but that bill goes beyond that and I think that's inappropriate at any point in public education. I think page three has the section about dealing with "responses to unwanted pregnancies (or whatever term was used)". As far as myself and my family is concerned those don't exist and I don't want planned parenthood involved in that discussion. Also, my best friend is an 8 year old girl and I can't imagine she could appropriately grasp anything that bill is talking about.
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