Dr. Tiller the late term abortionist. Did he deserve to die?
- 06-23-2009, 09:23 PM
- 06-23-2009, 11:05 PM
If you can kill a baby at nine months in the womb just because it has down's, then why not up to 30 days after a natural birth? Afterall, it is a choice, not a child right?
That's what makes "doctor" Tiller a particularly detestable human being. He was one of the US's most notorious serial killers IMO. The fact that it was not technically illegal doesn't make it any less of a crime against humanity.
I just dont think men should really have a say in the matter. Sorry.
06-24-2009, 08:47 AM
Alot of your statement doesnt make sense, who said anything about killing a baby after birth? Those are your words.
Luckily for alot of women (many in unfortunate circumstances), your above statement is still your opinion and not law.
And that is all it is. your opinion that you want to will upon someone else.
When you can get pregnant, then what you say might matter to me...And that's a big might.
Roe vs Wade hasnt been overturned for good reason.
Pro choice FTW.
06-24-2009, 08:54 AM
Choice for what exact? Did the parties involved have a choice to utilize protect against conception? Yes. Is abortion utilized to preserve vanity today? Yes. Does a viable life get to choose life or death in the womb? NOPE. Where is the choice in that?
Also saying FTW after the words Pro choice is just poor taste, utilizing a nascar term for the death of a childs life? I thought you had more couth than that.
The Historic PES Legend
06-24-2009, 08:59 AM
06-24-2009, 09:25 AM
06-24-2009, 09:29 AM
You mentioned Roe V Wade. Did you intentionally fail to mention the principle participant in the passage of Roe V Wade became an anti-abortionist almost immediately? What about the institution of Live birth abortions into the newest revision of FOCA? That has nothing to do with a woman body, only that she does not want a child in the world. Child is living, breathing, but left to die because he or she survived a botched abortion.
The slippery slope is getting steeper these days. Whats next, a child of 3 is to expensive, so just let them starve?
The Historic PES Legend
06-24-2009, 09:34 AM
06-24-2009, 01:45 PM
As well, saying its her body, what part of her body doesn't return to normal afterwards? What part of her body changes after week 32 that wouldn't remain exactly the same whether an abortion is performed as whether a delivery was performed? So thats a nice rallying cry and all, but when the infant has a heartbeat, brainwaves and lungs that can breathe air, his body counts too.
06-24-2009, 06:27 PM
If it ended with her choice on her body I would be fine. However, her choice can determine your rights. Yet your choice can not determine her rights.
It's a double standard
06-24-2009, 07:06 PM
You can have yours. It wont change mine.
This subject has split the nation, so its not like this is a taboo topic and I'm out of line.
I hold firm on my beliefs on personal rights. I cant say late term abortions are the greatest idea, but where do we draw that line? Your line may/is different than mine. And thats where the problem lies.
The initial thread has to do with Dr.Tiller getting killed. So, my question is, all you guys that are pro-life, or some facismile thereof......
What is your general consensus on the murder of the doctor. Are you guys in agreement that its okay for him to be killed?
I mean, you know this does well for the pro-life cause. Really helps push the pro-life movement in the right direction.
06-24-2009, 08:22 PM
The fact that a baby (not fetus) can live outside of the womb at 24-26 weeks is not my opinion. It is a medical fact. My statement that it is not a choice about what to do with one's own body at that point is also fact, not opinion, because there are two lives involved, not one.
As far as killing a baby after birth, that is a legitimate question about where we should draw the line legally. It is a fact (not an opinion) that a baby can live outside of the womb at 6 months, and certainly 9. Yet, you seem to think that it is okay to kill it at nine since it has not yet passed thru the vaginal canal.
So, if a woman were to decide a month after a live birth that she didn't want the responsibility of caring for a defective child, who am I to pass judgement if she decides to take it to a clinic and have it euthanised? Wouldn't you agree? Afterall, it's just an opinion and who am I to judge since I can't get pregnant?
Also, doesn't choice imply multiple options? It seems that in this context "choice" is limited to the right to abortion on demand only.
06-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Like i said, when you can get "with child" then i got ears for you.
Until then, I believe the woman should have rights and ownership up until birth.
Like it really matters what i think or say.......I can't get pregnant or have an abortion.....Just like the rest of you, just want to piss and moan about your point of view.
In all reality there is too much science and technology out there for late term abortions to be happening anyways........
Statistically, why are these late terms even happening. Not that it changes my point of view, I just dont understand why a women would need or want to wait that long anyways.
Possible legitimate reasons? Do they just procrastinate too long? Drugs, Alcohol? Why? Seriously.
FACT- 1% of abortions come after week 21......... Why am I even arguing.
06-24-2009, 09:50 PM
So 1% of 1.21 million is 12,100 in 2005. Thats an awful lot of murders. We've started multiple wars over less than that. For statistic's sake, thats not much less than die of skin cancer each year.In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.
Which sounds all good and cozy except gaining 4 more pounds can be considered to be negative for the womans health, if the woman is stressed then having the baby can be considered negative to her mental health. So factually its just a nice glossy addon that has no real value other than to make liberals feel good that a woman can't just do it because she wants to. The woman can claim that having stretch marks (or existing stretch marks getting worse) are a health issue...the Supreme Court has held that:
even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions “necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother;”
“health” in this context includes both physical and mental health;
only the physician, in the course of evaluating the specific circumstances of an individual case, can define what constitutes “health” and when a fetus is viable; and
states cannot require additional physicians to confirm the physician’s judgment that the woman’s life or health is at risk.
I have no qualms at all with abortions before week 20, and maybe even up to 22~23. but after that you have a deliverable child and if there isn't significant fatality risk to the mother, the doctor performing the abortion is performing murder.
06-24-2009, 11:35 PM
I don't have much to add after Easy's response. The fact that a very small % of abortions are late term doesn't justify what Tiller was doing. That doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy can still be terminated without a homocide and there are plenty of people who will adopt special needs kids. My understanding is that over 80% of Tiller's late term abortions were for trivial reasons (i.e. downs, retardation, deformities, etc.). He was exploiting a niche market for the money.
06-25-2009, 09:25 AM
That information brings a beter perspective of it all. Without a doubt. But doesnt change my POV.
I spoke with my GF last night on this subject for a good hour.
We are pretty open minded on it, we are not here to judge. One way or another.
We both agree we dont care for abortion. However, we believe in a persons rights and honestly some women(and the men) need that legal option.
She doesnt care much for the late terms. She is on the fence about aborting a downs or medically challenged child. Circumstances are very important.
I dont see the difference, I think its an abortion at day 1 or the day up to birth........I stick firm on the personal rights portion of it, and what legally can and cant be done within federal and state limitations.
We both agree its a personal choice, every circumstance is different and its very easy to judge sitting on the fence whilst not carrying the fetus and walking in her shoes.
Our converstation ended with the topic of his murder.
Did Dr. Tiller deserved to be murdered in church because of his actions(within the law)?
Her and I both agreed, NO.
Good luck with your quest gentlemen, this subject matter has come to conclusion for me.
06-25-2009, 11:17 AM
06-25-2009, 11:49 AM
no one here should have a say in whether someone deserved to die or not b/c it is not for us to decide. it might make good topic for conversation but at the end of the day it's simply not up to us.
try and make your boss' decisions and see how that works out for you. it won't be long before you're welcomed to the unemployment world
06-25-2009, 12:00 PM
Our legal system is structured so that 100 criminals go free rather than 1 innocent man being jailed. Why do we allow late term abortions?
06-25-2009, 12:56 PM
06-25-2009, 02:27 PM
07-27-2009, 04:01 PM
I am sure there will be a special place in hell for monsters like tiller and maybe a spot beside them for people that turned the other way and were afraid to speak out just like in Nazi Germany.
For me it proves that the faithful need segregation from the wicked as the bible commands , the wicked will only kill off there own kind making them weaker while the faithful have many children and cherish them. My children will be home schooled and will not have anything to do with the profane we are as different as night and day, the leftist are so blind they stand for nothing really except the easy way out having no character I find them as empty as a paper bag .
God let me stand for your just rules and laws lest I fall for anything
1 thing is for sure this murderer will never by his own hands murder another child , Praise God
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