Dr. Tiller the late term abortionist. Did he deserve to die?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Your definition of when life begins and that of the law are different.

    Alot of your statement doesnt make sense, who said anything about killing a baby after birth? Those are your words.

    Roe vs Wade hasnt been overturned for good reason.
    Again, your irony begets humor. Law determines moral value?

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Your opinions man.

    Just as they are mine. Are insults needed because you dont agree?

    We differ on where life begins, so to say that i am using the phrase FTW in the name of a child's death is unfair and inaccurate. Whats new, right? lol

    I mean really?
    Actually, they were not insults. I don't believe I insulted you. I just said a phrase was utilized in poor taste.

    You mentioned Roe V Wade. Did you intentionally fail to mention the principle participant in the passage of Roe V Wade became an anti-abortionist almost immediately? What about the institution of Live birth abortions into the newest revision of FOCA? That has nothing to do with a woman body, only that she does not want a child in the world. Child is living, breathing, but left to die because he or she survived a botched abortion.

    The slippery slope is getting steeper these days. Whats next, a child of 3 is to expensive, so just let them starve?

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Again, your irony begets humor. Law determines moral value?

    Adams
    thanks, i try.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Your opinions man.

    Just as they are mine. Are insults needed because you dont agree?

    We differ on where life begins, so to say that i am using the phrase FTW in the name of a child's death is unfair and inaccurate. Whats new, right? lol

    I mean really?
    when you are talking about late term abortions, it is fair and accurate. a surgical procedure could be done to deliver the child rather than abort it.

    As well, saying its her body, what part of her body doesn't return to normal afterwards? What part of her body changes after week 32 that wouldn't remain exactly the same whether an abortion is performed as whether a delivery was performed? So thats a nice rallying cry and all, but when the infant has a heartbeat, brainwaves and lungs that can breathe air, his body counts too.

  5. If it ended with her choice on her body I would be fine. However, her choice can determine your rights. Yet your choice can not determine her rights.

    It's a double standard
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    when you are talking about late term abortions, it is fair and accurate. a surgical procedure could be done to deliver the child rather than abort it.

    As well, saying its her body, what part of her body doesn't return to normal afterwards? What part of her body changes after week 32 that wouldn't remain exactly the same whether an abortion is performed as whether a delivery was performed? So thats a nice rallying cry and all, but when the infant has a heartbeat, brainwaves and lungs that can breathe air, his body counts too.
    I hear what your saying, but i have my opinion.

    You can have yours. It wont change mine.

    This subject has split the nation, so its not like this is a taboo topic and I'm out of line.

    I hold firm on my beliefs on personal rights. I cant say late term abortions are the greatest idea, but where do we draw that line? Your line may/is different than mine. And thats where the problem lies.

    The initial thread has to do with Dr.Tiller getting killed. So, my question is, all you guys that are pro-life, or some facismile thereof......

    What is your general consensus on the murder of the doctor. Are you guys in agreement that its okay for him to be killed?

    I mean, you know this does well for the pro-life cause. Really helps push the pro-life movement in the right direction.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Your definition of when life begins and that of the law are different.

    Alot of your statement doesnt make sense, who said anything about killing a baby after birth? Those are your words.

    Luckily for alot of women (many in unfortunate circumstances), your above statement is still your opinion and not law.

    And that is all it is. your opinion that you want to will upon someone else.

    When you can get pregnant, then what you say might matter to me...And that's a big might.

    Roe vs Wade hasnt been overturned for good reason.

    Pro choice FTW.

    The fact that a baby (not fetus) can live outside of the womb at 24-26 weeks is not my opinion. It is a medical fact. My statement that it is not a choice about what to do with one's own body at that point is also fact, not opinion, because there are two lives involved, not one.

    As far as killing a baby after birth, that is a legitimate question about where we should draw the line legally. It is a fact (not an opinion) that a baby can live outside of the womb at 6 months, and certainly 9. Yet, you seem to think that it is okay to kill it at nine since it has not yet passed thru the vaginal canal.

    So, if a woman were to decide a month after a live birth that she didn't want the responsibility of caring for a defective child, who am I to pass judgement if she decides to take it to a clinic and have it euthanised? Wouldn't you agree? Afterall, it's just an opinion and who am I to judge since I can't get pregnant?

    Also, doesn't choice imply multiple options? It seems that in this context "choice" is limited to the right to abortion on demand only.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by roids1 View Post
    The fact that a baby (not fetus) can live outside of the womb at 24-26 weeks is not my opinion. It is a medical fact. My statement that it is not a choice about what to do with one's own body at that point is also fact, not opinion, because there are two lives involved, not one.

    As far as killing a baby after birth, that is a legitimate question about where we should draw the line legally. It is a fact (not an opinion) that a baby can live outside of the womb at 6 months, and certainly 9. Yet, you seem to think that it is okay to kill it at nine since it has not yet passed thru the vaginal canal.

    So, if a woman were to decide a month after a live birth that she didn't want the responsibility of caring for a defective child, who am I to pass judgement if she decides to take it to a clinic and have it euthanised? Wouldn't you agree? Afterall, it's just an opinion and who am I to judge since I can't get pregnant?

    Also, doesn't choice imply multiple options? It seems that in this context "choice" is limited to the right to abortion on demand only.

    Like i said, when you can get "with child" then i got ears for you.

    Until then, I believe the woman should have rights and ownership up until birth.

    Like it really matters what i think or say.......I can't get pregnant or have an abortion.....Just like the rest of you, just want to piss and moan about your point of view.

    In all reality there is too much science and technology out there for late term abortions to be happening anyways........

    Statistically, why are these late terms even happening. Not that it changes my point of view, I just dont understand why a women would need or want to wait that long anyways.

    Possible legitimate reasons? Do they just procrastinate too long? Drugs, Alcohol? Why? Seriously.

    FYI-

    FACT- 1% of abortions come after week 21......... Why am I even arguing.

    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...you-can-help-0

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    FACT- 1% of abortions come after week 21......... Why am I even arguing.

    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...you-can-help-0
    ok heres some math for you then.
    In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.[2]
    So 1% of 1.21 million is 12,100 in 2005. Thats an awful lot of murders. We've started multiple wars over less than that. For statistic's sake, thats not much less than die of skin cancer each year.


    the Supreme Court has held that:
    even after fetal viability, states may not prohibit abortions “necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother;”
    “health” in this context includes both physical and mental health;
    only the physician, in the course of evaluating the specific circumstances of an individual case, can define what constitutes “health” and when a fetus is viable; and
    states cannot require additional physicians to confirm the physician’s judgment that the woman’s life or health is at risk.
    Which sounds all good and cozy except gaining 4 more pounds can be considered to be negative for the womans health, if the woman is stressed then having the baby can be considered negative to her mental health. So factually its just a nice glossy addon that has no real value other than to make liberals feel good that a woman can't just do it because she wants to. The woman can claim that having stretch marks (or existing stretch marks getting worse) are a health issue...

    I have no qualms at all with abortions before week 20, and maybe even up to 22~23. but after that you have a deliverable child and if there isn't significant fatality risk to the mother, the doctor performing the abortion is performing murder.

  10. I don't have much to add after Easy's response. The fact that a very small % of abortions are late term doesn't justify what Tiller was doing. That doesn't change the fact that the pregnancy can still be terminated without a homocide and there are plenty of people who will adopt special needs kids. My understanding is that over 80% of Tiller's late term abortions were for trivial reasons (i.e. downs, retardation, deformities, etc.). He was exploiting a niche market for the money.

  11. That information brings a beter perspective of it all. Without a doubt. But doesnt change my POV.

    I spoke with my GF last night on this subject for a good hour.

    We are pretty open minded on it, we are not here to judge. One way or another.

    We both agree we dont care for abortion. However, we believe in a persons rights and honestly some women(and the men) need that legal option.

    She doesnt care much for the late terms. She is on the fence about aborting a downs or medically challenged child. Circumstances are very important.

    I dont see the difference, I think its an abortion at day 1 or the day up to birth........I stick firm on the personal rights portion of it, and what legally can and cant be done within federal and state limitations.

    We both agree its a personal choice, every circumstance is different and its very easy to judge sitting on the fence whilst not carrying the fetus and walking in her shoes.

    Our converstation ended with the topic of his murder.

    Did Dr. Tiller deserved to be murdered in church because of his actions(within the law)?

    Her and I both agreed, NO.

    Good luck with your quest gentlemen, this subject matter has come to conclusion for me.

  12. Glad he's dead. Just my 2cc's.
  13. purebred
    purebred's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    That information brings a beter perspective of it all. Without a doubt. But doesnt change my POV.

    I spoke with my GF last night on this subject for a good hour.

    We are pretty open minded on it, we are not here to judge. One way or another.

    We both agree we dont care for abortion. However, we believe in a persons rights and honestly some women(and the men) need that legal option.

    She doesnt care much for the late terms. She is on the fence about aborting a downs or medically challenged child. Circumstances are very important.

    I dont see the difference, I think its an abortion at day 1 or the day up to birth........I stick firm on the personal rights portion of it, and what legally can and cant be done within federal and state limitations.

    We both agree its a personal choice, every circumstance is different and its very easy to judge sitting on the fence whilst not carrying the fetus and walking in her shoes.

    Our converstation ended with the topic of his murder.

    Did Dr. Tiller deserved to be murdered in church because of his actions(within the law)?

    Her and I both agreed, NO.

    Good luck with your quest gentlemen, this subject matter has come to conclusion for me.
    +1 for the bold comment. literally. LOL

    no one here should have a say in whether someone deserved to die or not b/c it is not for us to decide. it might make good topic for conversation but at the end of the day it's simply not up to us.

    try and make your boss' decisions and see how that works out for you. it won't be long before you're welcomed to the unemployment world

  14. Our legal system is structured so that 100 criminals go free rather than 1 innocent man being jailed. Why do we allow late term abortions?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    +1 for the bold comment. literally. LOL

    no one here should have a say in whether someone deserved to die or not b/c it is not for us to decide. it might make good topic for conversation but at the end of the day it's simply not up to us.

    try and make your boss' decisions and see how that works out for you. it won't be long before you're welcomed to the unemployment world
    Wow... great analogy there. Telling off your boss, or denying a child life. I really see the parallel there.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend

  16. Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    +1 for the bold comment. literally. LOL

    no one here should have a say in whether someone deserved to die or not b/c it is not for us to decide. it might make good topic for conversation but at the end of the day it's simply not up to us.
    You just contradicted the **** outta yourself. Didn't you mean it's not up to us to decide unless it's still in the womb? Afterall, even at 9 months, it's a choice, not a child.
  17. Wrong


    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    I'm sorry...pardon me if i'm jumping the gun but i wasn't aware anyone on this planet was qualified to pass judgment on anyone else, nevertheless to say who "deserves to die" or not.

    I'd like to stand corrected. I mean really. I would.
    The Leftist have tried to use a christian precept to there own ends. To judge someone means to judge if they will go to heaven or hell it has nothing to do with seeing a murderer killing an innocent child and stopping him. The bottom line is this Monster tiller was on par with nazi death camp officers like Doctor Mengele and his execution was nothing more than the saving of other childrens lifes , he would take a viable baby pull the head out , drill a hole in the head of the child and suck there brains out with a vacume tube, as long as the childs body stayed in the womb technicaly under the law the child is not a viable human being which anyone with a logical brain would know is semantics , just an excuse to commit legal infanticide. I might add the baby is not even given any pain killers to ease this horrific death. Also if you count the amount of murders this sadist commited he was easily a multi millionare many times over.
    I am sure there will be a special place in hell for monsters like tiller and maybe a spot beside them for people that turned the other way and were afraid to speak out just like in Nazi Germany.
    For me it proves that the faithful need segregation from the wicked as the bible commands , the wicked will only kill off there own kind making them weaker while the faithful have many children and cherish them. My children will be home schooled and will not have anything to do with the profane we are as different as night and day, the leftist are so blind they stand for nothing really except the easy way out having no character I find them as empty as a paper bag .

    God let me stand for your just rules and laws lest I fall for anything

    1 thing is for sure this murderer will never by his own hands murder another child , Praise God
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