I'm Pre-Approved for an ObamaCard!

[Irish Cannon]

 

[lutherblsstt]

You seem obsessed with Obama.

 

[Zero V]

You seem obsessed with Obama.

the guy is simply gona assist driving this nation into the ground....plenty to say about it is all.

 

[lutherblsstt]

the guy is simply gona assist driving this nation into the ground....plenty to say about it is all.

At the end of the day, I do not have a crystal ball, and so, imagine you could be entirely right. Possible ?

Whatever the case, to be fair, who is right or wrong is something that will require at least a minimal amount of time to be elapsed, when decent merit can be given to either opinion.

To fire arguments about a person' incompetency when less than six months in office and supported with virtually no evidence than teleological reasoning based on fear and extrapolation is ... um ... the antonym of 'smart'.

Do the same in two years, provide evidence in a sober way that can properly be examined on its merit, and if it supports your views, I will be one of the first in line to congratulate you and give you my money for regular consultations on how my life will evolve in the future.

I have always been fascinated by clairvoyants, so count me in a as a client.

 

[Gutterpump]

Hopefully he can undo the wrongs of the previous administration. The Republican party has been doing a good job of making America look like a neo-fascist police state. I am speaking as a non-American living in America, but of course I am sure a lot of American's won't agree with this view out of shear blind patriotism...one of the largest issues seemingly unique to America.

 

[Irish Cannon]

At the end of the day, I do not have a crystal ball, and so, imagine you could be entirely right. Possible ?

Whatever the case, to be fair, who is right or wrong is something that will require at least a minimal amount of time to be elapsed, when decent merit can be given to either opinion.

To fire arguments about a person' incompetency when less than six months in office and supported with virtually no evidence than teleological reasoning based on fear and extrapolation is ... um ... the antonym of 'smart'.

Do the same in two years, provide evidence in a sober way that can properly be examined on its merit, and if it supports your views, I will be one of the first in line to congratulate you and give you my money for regular consultations on how my life will evolve in the future.

I have always been fascinated by clairvoyants, so count me in a as a client.

So I'm supposed to sit back and not say anything just because he's spent little time in office? That's retarded. You realize he's served about a ninth of his term?

He said he was going to cut our deficit in half in his first term...So far he's nearly tripled it.

He had no business even running for office. Obama said it himself back in 2004.

Hopefully he can undo the wrongs of the previous administration. The Republican party has been doing a good job of making America look like a neo-fascist police state. I am speaking as a non-American living in America, but of course I am sure a lot of American's won't agree with this view out of shear blind patriotism...one of the largest issues seemingly unique to America.

You're calling the Republicans neo-fascists? I believe you're a little confused. The liberals are no longer liberals anymore. THEY'RE the fascists.

 

[TexasTitan]

Hopefully he can undo the wrongs of the previous administration. The Republican party has been doing a good job of making America look like a neo-fascist police state. I am speaking as a non-American living in America, but of course I am sure a lot of American's won't agree with this view out of shear blind patriotism...one of the largest issues seemingly unique to America.

Annnnnd youredone.

 

[Gutterpump]

Hi Tex =) I knew I would get this response. Of course only American's opinions count in America - even though America influences the rest of the world more than any other super-power (however this is changing), the rest of the world's opinions mean nothing right? lol

Irish Cannon, fascists/neo-fscists have been and always were extremely right wing. There are many people who fit this description in the States.

I think the US should get rid of Cheney already.

It's too bad there is no real moderate party here in the States.

 

[Jimmy Alto]

Bra, listen to Irish, it's the liberals, THEYRE the fascists. Us Conservatives just want America to be safe so we HAVE to get rid of the Commies, the terrorists and whatever other threat is threatening us. You liberals must live in a world where gumdrops grow on trees, well guess what buddy, the Patriot Act is patriotic! The Patriot Act doesn't infringe upon any of your civil liberties and besides, only terrorists should be worried about it! I'm talking out of my ass! ooh-rah!

 

[Irish Cannon]

Get rid of Cheney on what grounds?

It's apparent you're part of the DumbMasses. You're welcome to leave this country if you don't like it.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Bra, listen to Irish, it's the liberals, THEYRE the fascists. Us Conservatives just want America to be safe so we HAVE to get rid of the Commies, the terrorists and whatever other threat is threatening us. You liberals must live in a world where gumdrops grow on trees, well guess what buddy, the Patriot Act is patriotic!:usa1: The Patriot Act doesn't infringe upon any of your civil liberties and besides, only terrorists should be worried about it! I'm talking out of my ass! ooh-rah!

You also raise a few good points...

I'm conservative, not a Republican...Secondly, this thread makes me reevaluate the term "liberal." - Liberal is supposed to mean tolerant, yet it seems that the conservatives are much more tolerant than any of the liberals out there.

Todays liberals = fascists.

 

[Gutterpump]

Get rid of Cheney on what grounds?

It's apparent you're part of the DumbMasses. You're welcome to leave this country if you don't like it.

No need to feel defensive or like I am offending your country. I like it here or else I would not have moved here. There is nothing wrong with being tolerant of criticism. And there is nothing wrong with being critical.

 

[Gutterpump]

Bra, listen to Irish, it's the liberals, THEYRE the fascists. Us Conservatives just want America to be safe so we HAVE to get rid of the Commies, the terrorists and whatever other threat is threatening us. You liberals must live in a world where gumdrops grow on trees, well guess what buddy, the Patriot Act is patriotic! The Patriot Act doesn't infringe upon any of your civil liberties and besides, only terrorists should be worried about it! I'm talking out of my ass! ooh-rah!

I'm not liberal I'm moderate (where it comes to American politics). Problem is you have two majority and fairly extremist parties here. The political system is a bit flawed in the US. I am able to speak about it because I have lived in several countries. The problem in America, is if you vote for any party, the people are still screwed over. I love America, but I'm not a fan of the government.

 

[TexasTitan]

I'm not liberal I'm moderate (where it comes to American politics). Problem is you have two majority and fairly extremist parties here. The political system is a bit flawed in the US. I am able to speak about it because I have lived in several countries. The problem in America, is if you vote for any party, the people are still screwed over. I love America, but I'm not a fan of the government.

Youre a moderate in New York. Theres a big difference. It just means your a liberal in the normal part of the country.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I'm not liberal I'm moderate (where it comes to American politics). Problem is you have two majority and fairly extremist parties here. The political system is a bit flawed in the US. I am able to speak about it because I have lived in several countries. The problem in America, is if you vote for any party, the people are still screwed over. I love America, but I'm not a fan of the government.

Trust me, I'm not defending either side, but you are wrong in thinking they're both extremist. The current Republican party is anything but extreme. They're the moderate party you're looking for.

 

[Gutterpump]

Youre a moderate in New York. Theres a big difference. It just means your a liberal in the normal part of the country.

No it means if Liberals are left and Repubs are right, I'm right in the center. This is how I typically vote regardless of where I am living.

Like I said, it's too bad America has only 2 parties on opposite sides of the spectrum. One party in the center would do more good.

Irish Cannon, I meant you have two parties on extreme opposites of each other here. There are moderate members but the parties are both on opposing spectrums. The Republican party might have moderate members, and the dems also have moderate members, but the republican party as a whole is definitely not moderate

 

[Irish Cannon]

There's really no such thing as a moderate. You can't be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. It doesn't work. Every liberal social issue carries an extremely heavy price-tag.

 

[Gutterpump]

It seems to work in other countries. There are majority moderate parties that exist.

 

[lutherblsstt]

So I'm supposed to sit back and not say anything just because he's spent little time in office? That's retarded. You realize he's served about a ninth of his term?

He said he was going to cut our deficit in half in his first term...So far he's nearly tripled it.

He had no business even running for office. Obama said it himself back in 2004.




.

Again,provide evidence in a sober way that can properly be examined on its merit, and if it supports your views, I will be one of the first in line to congratulate you and give you my money for regular consultations on how my life will evolve in the future.

I have always been fascinated by clairvoyants, so count me in a as a client.

 

[WhatsaRoid?]

That was good haha

 

[dynomite]

Hopefully he can undo the wrongs of the previous administration. The Republican party has been doing a good job of making America look like a neo-fascist police state. I am speaking as a non-American living in America, but of course I am sure a lot of American's won't agree with this view out of shear blind patriotism...one of the largest issues seemingly unique to America.

America gives more money and aid than any other country in the world but for some reason people still complain about us. If you want to talk about police states you need to start complaining about Russia, China, Cuba, and alot of South America becasue those are police states. But for whatever reason you won't and you will complain about America instead. I really don't get it.

 

[dynomite]

All of this bailing out goes against our "free market".

However, I think our country is screwed no matter what he would have done. If he would have done nothing people would have faulted him. And of course people will fault him for the actions he did decide to take. I truly believe that America is in a decline and will not be number one in the very near future. We don't produce anything. We are a "consumer nation". Does anyone else realize how dumb that sounds? We are screwed.

 

[AE14]

Bra, listen to Irish, it's the liberals, THEYRE the fascists. Us Conservatives just want America to be safe so we HAVE to get rid of the Commies, the terrorists and whatever other threat is threatening us. You liberals must live in a world where gumdrops grow on trees, well guess what buddy, the Patriot Act is patriotic! The Patriot Act doesn't infringe upon any of your civil liberties and besides, only terrorists should be worried about it! I'm talking out of my ass! ooh-rah!

this is the funniest post of the day :rofl:

 

[AE14]

There's really no such thing as a moderate. You can't be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. It doesn't work. Every liberal social issue carries an extremely heavy price-tag.

must disagree IC, in fact that is in essence what a libretarian is, as well as what we used to call a bull-moose republican (hell, I know they exist, as that is what I am)

 

[lutherblsstt]

I feel that much of the anti-Obama rhetoric has been disingenuous and that at least the man deserves a chance. When I read ad hominem comments like "Obama is stupid", then that is nonsense; you don't become a professor at Harvard by being intellectually challenged.

At least he deserves to be judged on decisions and facts. That being said, I am bothered by this last reverse of policies. I don't think we need a stubborn president like Bush who whales in ignorance much of the time, and I also understand that one may have to back off now and then from extreme views to keep peace.

As a good leader I feel that one should try and avoid making promises one cannot maintain, although to be fair, Obama has retained several of them.

This last issue though, has very great symbolic value and could indicate an early turning point; future alone will say if it was or was not.

As an individual, Obama becomes at risk to be called by the same nickname as som termed John Kerry: Flipflop.

I don't think that is a good nickname to have as it would be amply used by those who like to engage in rhetoric, and it will undermine his authority. More important than just having changed his opinion, is the issue on which he has changed his opinion.

Time will likely also show what the real reason is for the change in direction; this is in itself may be worrying too. Did Obama himself as a person really change opinions ... or has he felt forced to just change policy out of fear of losing important political support and being afraid to raise to much political opposition.

If the last thing is true, it could come back and bite him in the rear raising criticism such as "selling out" to save something, perhaps himself. At this point such would be merely speculation, perhaps with insufficient indication to support the view, but it is still something I'd rather not see confirmed.

I believe that Obama errs in various aspects. After two term of Bush, I think that voters will not take feeling betrayed. While the man is intelligent and has rhetorical skills, he errs if he believes that the people will accept from him what they might have accepted from Bush. I strongly believe that the racial divide will come in the picture again.

A minority person in an authority position tends to far easier lose support from nonminority members than a nonminority member in charge. While the news articles suggested that republicans welcomed Obama's change of view, these are not going to be his voters anyhow.

For one thing they might like about him, they will have a dozen things they dislike, and by next election they will have their own candidate to support.

 

[Irish Cannon]

must disagree IC, in fact that is in essence what a libretarian is, as well as what we used to call a bull-moose republican (hell, I know they exist, as that is what I am)

A libertarian is by no means a moderate. They're closer to advocating anarchy than either of the two parties. While they would be more open to the social issues that liberals advocate, they by no means feel that they should be government funded.

It's more of a "do what you wish, but don't involve me" type of thing. This is probably closest to my ideology, although I have to disagree with some of it.

 

[Random181]

Annnnnd youredone.

LMAO, well said, I think 100% the same for england...

 

[Random181]

Hi Tex =) I knew I would get this response. Of course only American's opinions count in America - even though America influences the rest of the world more than any other super-power (however this is changing), the rest of the world's opinions mean nothing right? lol

Yes in america only americans opinions should count, in england only english opinions should count, in australia only australian opinions count, im sure you get what I mean , the more developed countries in the world are being flooded by immigrants, immigrants which are taking jobs that that countries native people need. This is creating a serious problem and is leading to an increasing amount of hate towards immigrants, now we are in a recision and in england a large amount of our recession problems can be directly attributed to immigrants taking the simpler jobs such as cleaners etc, the NHS would also be in a considerably better position if it did not spend so much money treating immigrants who have never even payed english tax. Im sure you are also aware that this is a very similar situation to what happened in germany just before WW2, this recession is just a step towards civil war. Just as hitler kicked out the jews so his native german people could prosper, soon the only way we will be able to prosper as a country again is to remove a large proportion of the immigrants. Every english person I know supports hitler style policies of england for english people, judging by the responses in this thread I would think a lot of americans share the same views.

Hitler said "No jew shall feast while a german man goes hungry", now hitler was generally a nutcase, but the belief that germany should support german people above all others was an honourable belief, a belief that captured the hearts of millions of people and allowed him to gain power. It is only a matter of time before a similar extremist leader gains power again. That will be the day civil war begins.

 

[Random181]

It seems to work in other countries. There are majority moderate parties that exist.

Which countries? over here in england our parties are at the total opposite ends of the spectrum...

 

[Gutterpump]

In Canada our Liberal party is actually slightly right of center, making them more balanced on issues and moderate. We have the NDP (national democratic party) on the left, and the Conservative party on the right. Usually our government swings between the middle libs and the right conservatives. Speaking of other countries and economies, Germany also does a great job between balancing the social and economic factors.

Btw, I was in a nearby building when that plane flew by for the photo op in NYC/NJ, it was crazy everyone was panicking. Pretty sure someone was fired for that, but yeah I was there when it happened. We were like "why the hell is there a fighter jet following an airliner so low??" didn't make sense that the police were told to keep it quiet.

 

[Irish Cannon]

In Canada our Liberal party is actually slightly right of center, making them more balanced on issues and moderate. We have the NDP (national democratic party) on the left, and the Conservative party on the right. Usually our government swings between the middle libs and the right conservatives. Speaking of other countries and economies, Germany also does a great job between balancing the social and economic factors.

Btw, I was in a nearby building when that plane flew by for the photo op in NYC/NJ, it was crazy everyone was panicking. Pretty sure someone was fired for that, but yeah I was there when it happened. We were like "why the hell is there a fighter jet following an airliner so low??" didn't make sense that the police were told to keep it quiet.

Mayor Bloomberg wasn't even told that was going on, and yes, Louis Caldera was forced to fall on the sword.

 

[Gutterpump]

America gives more money and aid than any other country in the world but for some reason people still complain about us. If you want to talk about police states you need to start complaining about Russia, China, Cuba, and alot of South America becasue those are police states. But for whatever reason you won't and you will complain about America instead. I really don't get it.

It's easy to understand. I didn't say America is a police state, and I am not complaining about America, just it's politics and politicians. Many people complain about their politicians. In fact, this thread is a complaint again one

 

[Nole1]

Complaining about politics and politicians is a full time job. Neither party (Dem or Repub) has alot to offer right now. GWB did pretty well on many fronts, but really screwed up alot during his last 2+ years. Of course, that timeline also coincides with when the Dems took over Congress.

I could never call myself a Democrat under todays construct, and right now, who really knows what a Republican is? McCain? Nope. Specter - clearly not in a long time. Charlie Crist? No....certainly not. I for one, am a Floridian NOT thrilled about CC running for Senate. He's too much in the middle.

I wish there were some fiscal conservatives with constitutional rights & values in mind out there for us to rally around. Maybe someone will come to the forefront soon.....but it won't be Jindal or Crist. Palin? Probably not, the media is hell bent on destroying her.

As for BO - he has broken MANY MANY of his campaign promises already. Reality is forcing some of that. Easy for him to talk out his butt when running for office and he only had part of the info, but when you are in the captains chair and making decisions, things change.

However, fiscally - he is an idiot and a liar. FLAT OUT LIAR. He cannot cut the deficit in any shape or form with his current social programs and plans. He WILL tax the people making under 50K a year before its all said and done with . Just watch.

 

[dynomite]

It's easy to understand. I didn't say America is a police state, and I am not complaining about America, just it's politics and politicians. Many people complain about their politicians. In fact, this thread is a complaint again one

You said that because of the Republican Party we look like a Neo Facist Police State. That statement was incredibly ignorant. I will say again, if you want to see a Neo Facist Police State then you should go look at other countries such as Middle Eastern Countries aka Kingdoms, Russia, Eastern Block Countries, Cuba, China. America is so free it is freaking annoying. For one if we were even close to being a facist police state your IP would have already been tracked and you would be gone for your questionable comments as would I. Damn those republicans!

I know our country has a ton of problems but being close minded is not one of them. As I stated earlier we give more money and aid than any other nation in the world by far. We constantly go out of our way for the minority. That sounds like a really pussy ass police state

 

[DAdams91982]

Constitution Party, 2012! Get rid of Welfare, Medicare, move education to the state authority, etc. Let free market free again.

Bring back the 10th Amendment and Federalism. Fed. Gov. should be working FOR the state, not against.

Adams

 

[CDB]

I say Natural Law Party 2012. We can all levitate to Nirvanna together.

Constitution Party, 2012! Get rid of Welfare, Medicare, move education to the state authority, etc. Let free market free again.

Bring back the 10th Amendment and Federalism. Fed. Gov. should be working FOR the state, not against.

Adams

 

[DAdams91982]

I say Natural Law Party 2012. We can all levitate to Nirvanna together.

As in the Constitution Party is not a viable option, or are you saying strict adherence to the constitution is paramount to scientology? Written word is hard to decipher sometimes.

Adams

 

[Jayhawkk]

Yes in america only americans opinions should count, in england only english opinions should count, in australia only australian opinions count, im sure you get what I mean , the more developed countries in the world are being flooded by immigrants, immigrants which are taking jobs that that countries native people need. This is creating a serious problem and is leading to an increasing amount of hate towards immigrants, now we are in a recision and in england a large amount of our recession problems can be directly attributed to immigrants taking the simpler jobs such as cleaners etc, the NHS would also be in a considerably better position if it did not spend so much money treating immigrants who have never even payed english tax. Im sure you are also aware that this is a very similar situation to what happened in germany just before WW2, this recession is just a step towards civil war. Just as hitler kicked out the jews so his native german people could prosper, soon the only way we will be able to prosper as a country again is to remove a large proportion of the immigrants. Every english person I know supports hitler style policies of england for english people, judging by the responses in this thread I would think a lot of americans share the same views

.

Immigrants are what made this country strong. It's the illegal ones that are giving the problems. Hitler didn't relocate Jews, he slaghtered them! Don't try and make what he did seem beneficial by choosing your words carefully. We've been in recessions before without a total world meltdown of anarchy and civil war. I think it's a bit too early to be sounding the trumpet of tribulation.

 

[CDB]

As in the Constitution Party is not a viable option, or are you saying strict adherence to the constitution is paramount to scientology? Written word is hard to decipher sometimes.

Adams

Former, not the latter. No one in the US takes a third party seriously, and the deck is so massively stacked against them by the two majors it's ridiculous. Look what happened to Ron Paul this time around, and he was just a Republican that was off the main stream and more libertarian in his views.

 

[DAdams91982]

Former, not the latter. No one in the US takes a third party seriously, and the deck is so massively stacked against them by the two majors it's ridiculous. Look what happened to Ron Paul this time around, and he was just a Republican that was off the main stream and more libertarian in his views.

Agreed.. but in all honesty I think Ron Paul did shoot himself in the foot with that premise. He is not a Republican by any stretch of the imagination, and to run a campaign on the tainted party name was a kill shot for him. I will always vote in the direction I believe, and that being third party. I only hope more and more of America will wake up to the idea that these two parties do not have our best interest in mind, and only further and further killing the sovereignty that made America great.

Adams

 

[CDB]

Agreed.. but in all honesty I think Ron Paul did shoot himself in the foot with that premise. He is not a Republican by any stretch of the imagination, and to run a campaign on the tainted party name was a kill shot for him.

Actually, and sadly, it was his best shot. As a third party candidate he was guaranteed to be shut out of all the debate and would have been given even less respect by the media outlets. He is a Republican in terms of the old right a la Patterson, Taft, Goldwater, etc.

I will always vote in the direction I believe, and that being third party. I only hope more and more of America will wake up to the idea that these two parties do not have our best interest in mind, and only further and further killing the sovereignty that made America great.

I think more and more of American will first try and 'get theirs' from the system before they even think of trying freedom for a change.

 

[DAdams91982]

Actually, and sadly, it was his best shot. As a third party candidate he was guaranteed to be shut out of all the debate and would have been given even less respect by the media outlets. He is a Republican in terms of the old right a la Patterson, Taft, Goldwater, etc.



I think more and more of American will first try and 'get theirs' from the system before they even think of trying freedom for a change.

One of the big problems across the board right now... the hand out mentality. Waiting for it to get filled. Masquerading as a humanity movement, essentially striping the youth of any type of need to pick up and do something for themselves.

Adams

 

[Jayhawkk]

It's politics... Even if you had a Libertarian movement that worked and gained political power on the Hill it would only be a matter of time before we ended up right where we are now. People more worried about keeping their seat of power over what their constituants want.

 

[EasyEJL]

It's politics... Even if you had a Libertarian movement that worked and gained political power on the Hill it would only be a matter of time before we ended up right where we are now. People more worried about keeping their seat of power over what their constituants want.

totally true. We'd have to establish 2-6 year terms in senate + house, and then a term limit of 1 term for anything to change. No more dynasties then, no more spending half your term campaigning for your next election, you have 1 shot to make a difference. We'll never see real change otherwise.

 

[Jayhawkk]

How do you get people to vote to have themselves limited to their jobs?

 

[EasyEJL]

I didn't say it would be easy but its the only way we can have our representatives actually represent us, rather than being career politicians. I mean seriously, after the obama presidency, what state do you think Hillary will try to become a senator in this time around? Arlen Specter anyone? He's changed parties then back again, solely to get past the PRIMARIES for his party. not so much even for the general election purposes, but just the primaries. Who does he represent? seems like mostly he represents Arlen Specter

 

[Jayhawkk]

Unfortunately, you're right

 

[CDB]

How do you get people to vote to have themselves limited to their jobs?

Well that's the kicker, ain't it? Which is why I don't support democracy in the end. One, the middle and lower half of the bell curve will always out vote the upper half which means legislation will always tend towards the moronic. Two, the incentive in an elected position is to serve the people who got you there, but that isn't 'the people' as we know them but the special interests who paid for your campaign. Hence, we have a bunch of dupes voting for a smaller bunch of dupes, and trusting that when in office and given the power to make law and grant special privileges they will become not only more intelligent, but altruists and serve the common good of all mankind. I call BS. They're gonna squeeze the system for all it's worth for as long as possible, and then bow out, hopefull before they've pissed off anyone to such an extreme that they resort to bullets to remove them from office. That's our system, take it or leave it. The only way to modify it is to mobilize enough people to outweigh the special intersts who really call the shots most of the time, or to start shooting at the politicians who don't abide by the constitution.

 

[AE14]

Well that's the kicker, ain't it? Which is why I don't support democracy in the end. One, the middle and lower half of the bell curve will always out vote the upper half which means legislation will always tend towards the moronic. Two, the incentive in an elected position is to serve the people who got you there, but that isn't 'the people' as we know them but the special interests who paid for your campaign. Hence, we have a bunch of dupes voting for a smaller bunch of dupes, and trusting that when in office and given the power to make law and grant special privileges they will become not only more intelligent, but altruists and serve the common good of all mankind. I call BS. They're gonna squeeze the system for all it's worth for as long as possible, and then bow out, hopefull before they've pissed off anyone to such an extreme that they resort to bullets to remove them from office. That's our system, take it or leave it. The only way to modify it is to mobilize enough people to outweigh the special intersts who really call the shots most of the time, or to start shooting at the politicians who don't abide by the constitution.

we need a lot of ammunition

 

[lutherblsstt]

As in the Constitution Party is not a viable option, or are you saying strict adherence to the constitution is paramount to scientology? Written word is hard to decipher sometimes.

Adams

The Constitution is a historic document written in a language that requires the assistance of Professors of Law specialized in Constititutional Law to properly understand what the meaning is.