Homeboys For Life

[Irish Cannon]

It needs no commentary...

 

[Irish Cannon]

But I'll remind you of this for the fun of it...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214709,00.html

“The United States empire is on its way down and it will be finished in the near future, inshallah," Chavez told reporters, ending the statement with the Arabic phrase for "God willing."

 

[nopeace]

He better make nice! or Mr. Chavez will sell his oil in Euros!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Which would be disastrous given he has to buy back gasoline from US since he can't refine his own oil.

 

[nopeace]

Which would be disastrous given he has to buy back gasoline from US since he can't refine his own oil.

Believe me our Government wants him out. He can sell all his oil to China/India.

CIA is still operating in his country right now.

 

[MikeMagz1013]

Lol I love Obama, keepin it real

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Believe me our Government wants him out. He can sell all his oil to China/India.

Of course they do...they wanted Castro out but it wasn't for his resources. If we wanted more heavy crude to refine, we would import more from Canada.

Chavez is tied to the US dollar. He knows it and so do we.

China/India have the same problem as most countries except the US with heavy crude (the opposite of what you fine in the middle east)....refining.

...not to mention that India and China are about 50 yrs behind us in total oil consumption. You can combine them together and it isn't half of what use.

Take us out of the equation and he's ****ed. We have more sources..he doesn't have more buyers.

What happened when oil prices crashed? Chavez shut his mouth.


And the above scenario is a main reason why many countries simply do not like us. We have enormous control and have a great many dependents.

CIA is still operating in his country right now.

Good for them.

 

[lutherblsstt]

Of course they do...they wanted Castro out but it wasn't for his resources. If we wanted more heavy crude to refine, we would import more from Canada.

Chavez is tied to the US dollar. He knows it and so do we.

China/India have the same problem as most countries except the US with heavy crude (the opposite of what you fine in the middle east)....refining.

...not to mention that India and China are about 50 yrs behind us in total oil consumption. You can combine them together and it isn't half of what use.

Take us out of the equation and he's ****ed. We have more sources..he doesn't have more buyers.

What happened when oil prices crashed? Chavez shut his mouth.


And the above scenario is a main reason why many countries simply do not like us. We have enormous control and have a great many dependents.



Good for them.

More major reasons why many people worldwide do not like the US is because of the US training of death squads,befriending ruthless dictators,invading countries,having bases in hundreds of countries,subverting grass roots movements via the CIA and other organizations,CIA backed assasinations,etc.etc.

 

[lutherblsstt]

It needs no commentary...

This labeling as 'liberal' and 'socialist' is a very strange sort of rhetoric as if these terms imply something evil.

This is not new though.

It has been done to communism in the US for a long time. I was reading the penal code of a certain state the other day, and it had in there that being a member of a communist party was a regarded as being a member of an illegal organization and thus a misdemeanor.

In that way, political beliefs have become demonized and regarded as evil instead of just a view one disagrees with.

I know no other Western country that considers communism as a legal offense; communist parties simply often deal with ideal that are by many considered as outdated and they often fail to make quota. It is very strange that such a demonization of other political views such as liberal or socialism occur too. They are used as terms to demonize others irrespective of whether that term holds any truth as to the views of the other person.

I am very much in favor of human rights, I am in favor of pro-choice, and yet I have a very conservative view on adultery 。

It is a very interesting phenomenon; it is also a phenomenon that is losing its effect and becoming rather pathetic. Indeed to use a common perfectly acceptable term as if it were a swearing word and imply something bad to characterize someone else without proper analysis of that person's views is no doubt a puerile ad hominem approach that may work with the simple-minded but likely not with the more insightful.

It is a tool we, most interestingly, still see amply being used in totalitarian states such as China (anything differing in views will called "counter-revolutionary" and thus labeled as 'extreme evil'), or in some Muslim states (everything Western being labeled as 'infidel' and thus being of extreme evil nature). It probably is an effective tool of control in such totalitarian states, but is likely to fail in Western society.

There was an interesting analysis of this sort of polarizing rhetoric in the New York Times recently: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/us/polit...aucus.html?_r=2

 

[Dwight Schrute]

More major reasons why many people worldwide do not like the US is because of the US training of death squads,befriending ruthless dictators,invading countries,having bases in hundreds of countries,subverting grass roots movements via the CIA and other organizations,CIA backed assasinations,etc.etc.

Yes, we are the evil of the world, especially to individuals like yourself.

 

[DAdams91982]

More major reasons why many people worldwide do not like the US is because of the US training of death squads,befriending ruthless dictators,invading countries,having bases in hundreds of countries,subverting grass roots movements via the CIA and other organizations,CIA backed assasinations,etc.etc.

God, I wish i could kick fck's like you right out of the country I love. Death Squads... seriously man. I hope your kids can sleep at night with your rhetoric you are brainwashing them with.

Adams

 

[EasyEJL]

I hope your kids can sleep at night with your rhetoric you are brainwashing them with.

actually I hope they can't

 

[lutherblsstt]

God, I wish i could kick fck's like you right out of the country I love. Death Squads... seriously man. I hope your kids can sleep at night with your rhetoric you are brainwashing them with.

Adams

I live in Japan pal.As for the training of Death Squads :

"[I took] a course in intelligence at the school of the Americas [in which I saw] a lot of videos which showed the type of interrogation and torture they used in Vietnam. � Although many people refuse to accept it, all this is organized by the U.S. government." � José Valle, graduate of the SOA, admitted torturer, member of Battalion 316, Inside the School of Assassins, video

Torturing was "a job, something I did to give food to my kids" � Valle, Baltimore Sun, 6/11/95

"The intelligence unit, known as Battalion 316, used shock and suffocation as devices in interrogations. Prisoners often were kept naked and, when no longer useful, killed and buried in unmarked graves. Newly declassified documents and other sources show that the CIA and the U.S. Embassy knew of numerous crimes, including murder and torture, yet continued to support Battalion 316 and collaborate with its leaders." � Baltimore Sun, 6/11/95

Also:


http://wikileaks.org/wiki/How_to_train_death_squads_and_quash_revolutions_from_San_Salvador_to_you[/url]

[T]he psychological effectiveness of the CSDF concept starts by reversing the insurgent strategy of making the government the repressor. It forces the insurgents to cross a critical threshold-that of attacking and killing the very class of people they are supposed to be liberating. „
— US Special Forces doctrine obtained by Wikileaks

So states the US Special Forces counterinsurgency manual obtained by Wikileaks, Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces (1994, 2004).

The manual may be critically described as "what the US learned about running death squads and propping up corrupt government in Latin America and how to apply it to other places". Its contents are both history defining for Latin America and, given the continued role of US Special Forces in the suppression of insurgencies, including in Iraq and Afghanistan, history making.

The leaked manual, which has been verified with military sources, is the official US Special Forces doctrine for Foreign Internal Defense or FID.

FID operations are designed to prop up "friendly" governments facing popular revolution or guerilla insurgency. FID interventions are often covert or quasi-covert due to the unpopular nature of the governments being supported ("In formulating a realistic policy for the use of advisors, the commander must carefully gauge the psychological climate of the HN [Host Nation] and the United States.")

The manual directly advocates training paramilitaries, pervasive surveillance, censorship, press control and restrictions on labor unions & political parties. It directly advocates warrantless searches, detainment without charge and (under varying circumstances) the suspension of habeas corpus. It directly advocates employing terrorists or prosecuting individuals for terrorism who are not terrorists, running false flag operations and concealing human rights abuses from journalists. And it repeatedly advocates the use of subterfuge and "psychological operations" (propaganda) to make these and other "population & resource control" measures more palatable.

The content has been particularly informed by the long United States involvement in El Salvador.

In 2005 a number of credible media reports suggested the Pentagon was intensely debating "the Salvador option" for Iraq.[1]. According to the New York Times Magazine:

"The template for Iraq today is not Vietnam, with which it has often been compared, but El Salvador, where a right-wing government backed by the United States fought a leftist insurgency in a 12-year war beginning in 1980.

The cost was high — more than 70,000 people were killed, most of them civilians, in a country with a population of just six million. Most of the killing and torturing was done by the army and the right-wing death squads affiliated with it. According to an Amnesty International report in 2001, violations committed by the army and associated groups included ‘‘extrajudicial executions, other unlawful killings, ‘disappearances’ and torture. . . . Whole villages were targeted by the armed forces and their inhabitants massacred.’’ As part of President Reagan’s policy of supporting anti-Communist forces, hundreds of millions of dollars in United States aid was funneled to the Salvadoran Army, and a team of 55 Special Forces advisers, led for several years by Jim Steele, trained front-line battalions that were accused of significant human rights abuses."

Newsweek.Special Forces May Train Assassins, Kidnappers in Iraq by Michael Hirsh & John Barry, Jan. 14, 2005 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/print/1/displaymode/1098/

In addition:

"In 1981 President Reagan authorized paramilitary operations against the leftist government of Nicaragua.

As ambassador to Honduras from 1981 to 1985, Negroponte played a key role in establishing that country as a base of operations for the CIA's "Contra" guerilla army then attempting to destabilize Nicaragua, with a 450-square-kilometer stretch along the border virtually turned over to the US-backed Nicaraguan rebels.

He was also instrumental in the reign of terror then being overseen in Honduras by security chief Gen. Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, his good friend. Between 1980 and 1984, US military aid to Honduras jumped from $3.9 million to $77.4 million. Much of this went to facilitate the crushing of popular movements through a covert "low intensity" war.

Although the high-level planning, money and arms for this repression flowed from Washington, much of the on-the-ground logistics was run out of the Embassy in Tegucigalpa. So crammed was the tiny country with US military troops and bases at this time, that it was dubbed the "USS Honduras."

The captain of this ship, Negroponte, was in charge of the US Embassy when--according to a 1995 four-part series in the Baltimore Sun--hundreds of Hondurans deemed "subversives" were kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed by Battalion 316, a secret Honduran army intelligence unit trained and supported by the Pentagon and the Central Intelligence Agency."

http://www.ww4report.com/negropontedeathsquad

Propaganda my a$$!

 

[DAdams91982]

I grow tired of trying to read your copy and paste hack jobs from wiki's. When you do have an original thought, try and share it with the rest of us.

Adams

 

[lutherblsstt]

I grow tired of trying to read your copy and paste hack jobs from wiki's. When you do have an original thought, try and share it with the rest of us.

Adams

Here you go,you must have skipped this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123591-homeboys-life.html#post1939057

By the way,the sources were:

1.Newsweek.Special Forces May Train Assassins, Kidnappers in Iraq by Michael Hirsh & John Barry, Jan. 14, 2005 Newsweek - National News, World News, Health, Technology, Entertainment and more... | Newsweek.com


2. JOHN NEGROPONTE & THE DEATH-SQUAD CONNECTION | World War 4 Report


3. http://wikileaks.org/wiki/How_to_train_death_squads_and_quash_revolutions_from_San_Salvador_to_you

excerpt: "In 1993 a United Nations truth commission on El Salvador, which examined 22,000 atrocities that occurred during the twelve-year civil war, attributed 85 percent of the abuses to the US-backed El Salvador military and its paramilitary death squads."


In addition a fourth source:

4. US State Department, FOIA record
http://foia.state.gov/documents/elsalvad/738d.PDF


By the way,nice dodge of the issue and attempt at a red herring.

 

[DAdams91982]

Here you go,you must have skipped this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123591-homeboys-life.html#post1939057

By the way,the sources were:

1.Newsweek.Special Forces May Train Assassins, Kidnappers in Iraq by Michael Hirsh & John Barry, Jan. 14, 2005 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/...playmode/1098/


2. http://www.ww4report.com/negropontedeathsquad


3. http://wikileaks.org/wiki/How_to_train_death_squads_and_ quash_revolutions_from_San_Sal vador_to_you

By the way,nice dodge of the issue and attempt at a red herring.

I am not dodging an issues, the minute you want to bring some proper ideals to the table instead of ripping off words in the likes of Biden, we will have something... other than that, you just regurgitate the internet... it is not hard copying and pasting BS the whole day, but thinking critically is a bit different.

Adams

 

[lutherblsstt]

I am not dodging an issues, the minute you want to bring some proper ideals to the table instead of ripping off words in the likes of Biden, we will have something... other than that, you just regurgitate the internet... it is not hard copying and pasting BS the whole day, but thinking critically is a bit different.

Adams

Again,you skipped this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123591-homeboys-life.html#post1939057

and this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123559-dhs-document-right.html#post1925251

Now how about you think critically about why so many in the world have a grudge against the US (one of many reasons is, like I said before,training Death Squads) and stop emotionally reacting to every post that mentions the military.

Fourth source:

4. US State Department, FOIA record
http://foia.state.gov/documents/elsalvad/738d.PDF

"The United States is a society in which people not only can get by without knowing much about the wider world but are systematically encouraged not to think independently or critically and instead to accept the mythology of the United States as a benevolent, misunderstood giant as it lumbers around the world trying to do good."

Robert Jensen

 

[DAdams91982]

Again,you skipped this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123591-homeboys-life.html#post1939057

and this:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/politics/123559-dhs-document-right.html#post1925251

Now how about you think critically about why so many in the world have a grudge against the US (one of many reasons is, like I said before,training Death Squads) and stop emotionally reacting to every post that mentions the military.

Fourth source:

4. US State Department, FOIA record
http://foia.state.gov/documents/elsalvad/738d.PDF

"The United States is a society in which people not only can get by without knowing much about the wider world but are systematically encouraged not to think independently or critically and instead to accept the mythology of the United States as a benevolent, misunderstood giant as it lumbers around the world trying to do good."

Robert Jensen

I believe I am discussing in both of those threads, and don't see the reason you redirect me to the discussions I am participating in?

And why are you pointing me to other peoples words that I explicitly asked you to discuss yourself. You have done this non stop in each of your debates. Unfortunately i do not get to debate the writer of declassified FOIA records.. i get to discuss issues with you. Which you have not done. You copy and paste Anti-American propaganda left and right, but only say to read this.

Now, as for emotionally reacting to such, I demand respect for the US military, they have fought for freedom and deserve a certain amount of such.

As for why the world dislikes America, that one is pretty easy. Or does the mass immigration to the US not give that away?

Adams

Ps... my Rep has BLOWN UP since calling your ass out about your hack job at discussion issues. Not that I care about rep, but it is pretty damn funny.

 

[lutherblsstt]

You have done this non stop in each of your debates. Unfortunately i do not get to debate the writer of declassified FOIA records.. i get to discuss issues with you. Which you have not done. You copy and paste Anti-American propaganda left and right, but only say to read this.

These are documented events, copy and pasted or not(training of Death Squads at the School of the Americas,CIA backed assasinations,CIA training of mujihadeen in Afghanistan,etc.) not "Anti-American propaganda". Do you think that anything that criticizes American foreign policy is "Anti American propaganda"? Do you not understand that actions such as mass killing(like dropping atomic bombs on civilian populations) ,supporting brutal dictators,torturing people,invading countries (example:Iraq) and toppling governments create enemies?

More recently U.S. drone missile strikes that kill a few Taliban but anger millions of Pakistanis.

Now, as for emotionally reacting to such, I demand respect for the US military, they have fought for freedom and deserve a certain amount of such.

Fighting for freedom? Who's freedom? The freedom to do what? You talk about propaganda,that is one of the biggest propaganda slogans of all times.

The government of the United States of America, does a superb job in its advertising department. If they have a violent intention which is unjust and which violates dozens of U.N. as well as Organization of America States Charters, then what do they do but call it 'Operation Just Cause.'

The label 'Just Cause,' for something unjust, is like the statement 'Ignorance is Strength,' in the novel 1984 by George Orwell. It's double-talk that is stated ass-backwards, the direct opposite of truth, and if it is accepted as truth, then truth loses it's meaning.

Former U.S. Senator Bob Bauman wrote an article entitled, "Anti-Terrorism Tyranny," in which he quotes the following from the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald.

"The land of the free becomes the home of the hypocrite."
The "hypocrite," says the Herald article, is the government of the United States of America.

Specifically, says the article, it is the politicians responsible for the radical US anti-terrorism laws that have trampled traditional American freedoms at the same time these same politicians are calling other nations to task regarding their lack of freedom. The increasing loss of freedom in America has recently escalated through the roof.

This loss of freedom is being described as an increase in the protection of freedom, thereby, an expansion of freedom. If you believe that a loss of freedom means an increase in freedom, then you also believe that ignorance is strength and that the use of Stealth bombers on a nation with no radar nor air force is a 'just cause.'

As for why the world dislikes America, that one is pretty easy. Or does the mass immigration to the US not give that away?

Perhaps you need to talk to expatriates. Expatriates are not necessarily happy in their new country; they may be there for a variety of reasons, which can be because of their spouse; it can be because of a job; holding a job does not necessarily mean you are happy, but that you can survive.

I lived in a few countries, and moved away from countries where I was happier to countries where I was less happy, for a variety of reasons, some of which included a job; it is not that simple. I went to do judo in Korea at one point, not because I was even remotely happy, but because I felt it necessary to have that experience, and because it was necessary to keep renewing my Japanese visa.

Sometimes you have to be pragmatic too, and choose your least worse option.

Adams

Ps... my Rep has BLOWN UP since calling your ass out about your hack job at discussion issues. Not that I care about rep, but it is pretty damn funny.

You don't care about your rep but you mention your rep blowing up.:thinking:

 

[DAdams91982]

These are documented events, copy and pasted or not(training of Death Squads at the School of the Americas,CIA backed assasinations,CIA training of mujihadeen in Afghanistan,etc.) not "Anti-American propaganda". Do you think that anything that criticizes American foreign policy is "Anti American propaganda"?

Assassinations sometimes is a requirement, if I had the chance to pull the trigger on Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, or Saddam, i would do it in a heart beat, I applaud anyone for doing so. As for the documents, people that write such documents can also have their own hidden agenda, unless they were here for me to debate with, I find it worthless of facts.

As for criticizing foreign policy, go for it... I do it all the time, especially now. Being a super power and bowing down to Saudi? Seriously? Seeing as America seems to be the only one with balls, we have to act as the world police at times since others stand by and watch atrocities happen. Something I am happy about? No... but necessary regardless.

Do you not understand that actions such as mass killing(like dropping atomic bombs on civilian populations) ,supporting brutal dictators,torturing people,invading countries (example:Iraq) and toppling governments create enemies?

You mean the atomic bombs that were dropped to end a world war that killed tens of millions of people? That atrocity that in the long run saved millions more? Is that the mass murder you are talking about? or the invasion of a dictatorial regime that raped women and fed unsuccessful soccer player to the lions? or is that the mass murder you are talking about? Please let me know how some right can be so wrong. Or is it okay to watch the bully pick on and beat up the little kid in school? The world cannot have their cake and eat it too, and outcry happens, the US reacts and cleans up the problem, then the world bitches and crys about the problem being cleaned up?

More recently U.S. drone missile strikes that kill a few Taliban but anger millions of Pakistanis.

So, I am guessing America should sit by idly and let the Taliban work and conspire against western civilization? The biggest threat to not only America, but Europe and the Middle East alike? Because most of the rest of the world is cowards? Again... trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Fighting for freedom? Who's freedom? The freedom to do what? You talk about propaganda,that is one of the biggest propaganda slogans of all times.

Right now freedom from being attacked on our own soil. Freedom is only propaganda to those who do not enjoy the same.

The government of the United States of America, does a superb job in its advertising department. If they have a violent intention which is unjust and which violates dozens of U.N. as well as Organization of America States Charters, then what do they do but call it 'Operation Just Cause.'

SERIOUSLY... you are going to bring the organization that houses some of the most inhuman rulers on earth into an argument about human rights and justice. You have got to be kidding me.

The label 'Just Cause,' for something unjust, is like the statement 'Ignorance is Strength,' in the novel 1984 by George Orwell. It's double-talk that is stated ass-backwards, the direct opposite of truth, and if it is accepted as truth, then truth loses it's meaning.

Former U.S. Senator Bob Bauman wrote an article entitled, "Anti-Terrorism Tyranny," in which he quotes the following from the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald.

"The land of the free becomes the home of the hypocrite."
The "hypocrite," says the Herald article, is the government of the United States of America.

Blah blah blah.. more quoting bullshit.

Specifically, says the article, it is the politicians responsible for the radical US anti-terrorism laws that have trampled traditional American freedoms at the same time these same politicians are calling other nations to task regarding their lack of freedom. The increasing loss of freedom in America has recently escalated through the roof.

This loss of freedom is being described as an increase in the protection of freedom, thereby, an expansion of freedom. If you believe that a loss of freedom means an increase in freedom, then you also believe that ignorance is strength and that the use of Stealth bombers on a nation with no radar nor air force is a 'just cause.'

Funny, because I live in the US, and I feel.... ummmm.... no different. I feel my freedoms are still intact as with under any administration. Because a country ramps up its defense, and goes out and removes the threat that attacked the US, and actively adverting future catastrophes does not remove American freedoms.

Perhaps you need to talk to expatriates. Expatriates are not necessarily happy in their new country; they may be there for a variety of reasons, which can be because of their spouse; it can be because of a job; holding a job does not necessarily mean you are happy, but that you can survive.

I lived in a few countries, and moved away from countries where I was happier to countries where I was less happy, for a variety of reasons, some of which included a job; it is not that simple. I went to do judo in Korea at one point, not because I was even remotely happy, but because I felt it necessary to have that experience, and because it was necessary to keep renewing my Japanese visa.

Sometimes you have to be pragmatic too, and choose your least worse option.

So by your assumption most of the immigrants do not come here for a better life, but more so because they have to? Not because they wish to escape a real dictatorship, genocide, or poor living conditions to a better life? But immigrants come here for jobs, and a chance at a better life? No where is the blackeye on America for that?

You don't care about your rep but you mention your rep blowing up.:thinking:

No, I pointed out that you are cut and paste blowhard. You only regurgitate others without a actual thought to yourself.

 

[lutherblsstt]

Assassinations sometimes is a requirement, if I had the chance to pull the trigger on Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, or Saddam, i would do it in a heart beat, I applaud anyone for doing so. As for the documents, people that write such documents can also have their own hidden agenda, unless they were here for me to debate with, I find it worthless of facts.

Who decides who needs to be assasinated? Would you pull the trigger on Obama?

As for criticizing foreign policy, go for it... I do it all the time, especially now. Being a super power and bowing down to Saudi? Seriously? Seeing as America seems to be the only one with balls,

By that you mean the only one willing to invade countries that pose no threat to us?

we have to act as the world police at times since others stand by and watch atrocities happen.

No we don't have to act as the world police,we choose to. Also,we have played a part in many atrocities.

You mean the atomic bombs that were dropped to end a world war that killed tens of millions of people? That atrocity that in the long run saved millions more? Is that the mass murder you are talking about?

No I mean the atomic bombs that were dropped where after the first about 90,000 people were killed immediately; another 40,000 were injured, many of whom died in protracted agony from radiation sickness. Three days later, a second atomic strike on the city of Nagasaki killed some 37,000 people and injured another 43,000despite the fact that Japan already had been defeated militarily by June 1945. Almost nothing was left of the once mighty Imperial Navy, and Japan's air force had been all but totally destroyed.

"In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)

This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:

Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
Surrender of designated war criminals. "

Almost all of the victims were civilians, and the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (issued in 1946) stated in its official report: "Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because of their concentration of activities and population."

Let me close this part with a couple quotes,now don't go off on a red herring about copy and pasting,stick to the subject:

"The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing ... I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon," Eisenhower said in 1963

Brig. General Bonnie Fellers stated in a memo for General MacArthur: "Neither the atomic bombing nor the entry of the Soviet Union into the war forced Japan's unconditional surrender. She was defeated before either these events took place."

Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:

"It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan ... The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."

or the invasion of a dictatorial regime that raped women and fed unsuccessful soccer player to the lions? or is that the mass murder you are talking about? Please let me know how some right can be so wrong. Or is it okay to watch the bully pick on and beat up the little kid in school? The world cannot have their cake and eat it too, and outcry happens, the US reacts and cleans up the problem, then the world bitches and crys about the problem being cleaned up?

Your ridiculous analogy of the bully and the little kid when dealing with a complex issue with cumulative causation would be funny if it were not so sad.

Do you actually think that the US invaded Iraq to help the Iraqi people? Are you that dense?

Why didn't we invade Chile when Pinochet was in power?

"according to the Church Committee report. Tens of thousands of Chileans have been tortured, killed, and exiled since then, according to Amnesty Intemational. A U.S. congressional delegation was told by inmates at San Miguel Prison that they had been tortured by "the application of electric shock, simultaneous blows to the ears, cigarette burns, and simulated executions by firing squads." Despite Chile's bad human rights record, the U.S. government continued to support Pinochet with international loans. "

Why have we not invaded Turkey?

"In 1988, according to Amnesty Intemational, "thousands of people were imprisoned for political reasons ... [and] the use of torture continued to be widespread and systematic."

The list goes on and on......

So by your assumption most of the immigrants do not come here for a better life, but more so because they have to? Not because they wish to escape a real dictatorship, genocide, or poor living conditions to a better life? But immigrants come here for jobs, and a chance at a better life? No where is the blackeye on America for that?

I said "Expatriates are not necessarily happy in their new country; they may be there for a variety of reasons" also "Sometimes you have to be pragmatic too, and choose your least worse option. "

 

[lutherblsstt]

Funny, because I live in the US, and I feel.... ummmm.... no different. I feel my freedoms are still intact as with under any administration. Because a country ramps up its defense, and goes out and removes the threat that attacked the US, and actively adverting future catastrophes does not remove American freedoms.

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597

Privacy International, a UK privacy group, and the U.S.-based Electronic Privacy Information Center have put together a world map of surveillance societies, rating various nations for their civil liberties records.

Both the U.S. and the UK are colored black for “endemic surveillance,” as are Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore, Russia, China and Malaysia.

In terms of statutory protections and privacy enforcement, the US is the worst ranking country in the democratic world. In terms of overall privacy protection the United States has performed very poorly, being out-ranked by both India and the Philippines and falling into the "black" category, denoting endemic surveillance.

If you feel your "freedoms are still entact" whatever that means,I have a book recommendation that may heighten your awareness a bit:

Title: The Soft Cage - Surveillance in America from Slavery to the War on Terror
Author: Christian Parenti

Review here:

http://www.techsoc.com/softcage.htm

 

[DAdams91982]

Holy **** man... your posts are drivel... I refuse to read your quoted material.... it's non stop. I give up.. I conceded... your rational is ridiculous and for that of a world where rainbows shoot out of anuses, and gum drops fall from the trees. I swear, for you liberals to keep saying open your mind, and your is so very closed, I just dont get it.

Adams

 

[Jimmy Alto]

What does the fact that he's quoting have anything to do w/ the argument at hand?

 

[DAdams91982]

What does the fact that he's quoting have anything to do w/ the argument at hand?

I have debated with him quite a bit in other threads... if you see his MO, all he does is copy and paste. Not exactly debating. Hard to argue with a writer of an article, since he/she is not here.

Adams

 

[Jimmy Alto]

If he's quoting it I would assume he's ready to defend it. As long as he has a firm understanding of what's being said and it's relevant I don't see why a debate can't continue. A lot of what he quoted in that last post weren't opinions to be argued anyway. If he had re-worded them they would have served the same purpose, but you probably would have just asked for a source:dunno:

 

[DAdams91982]

If he's quoting it I would assume he's ready to defend it. As long as he has a firm understanding of what's being said and it's relevant I don't see why a debate can't continue. A lot of what he quoted in that last post weren't opinions to be argued anyway. If he had re-worded them they would have served the same purpose, but you probably would have just asked for a source:dunno:

Pay attention better. When I first started debating with him, I would post a response to articles. Then he would respond to my response, with guess what... an article. Where and when have I asked for a source? Me and CDB can debate quite well with original thoughts. It grows tiring responding to other people that isn't even part of the discussion.

Nice try though.

Adams

 

[Jimmy Alto]

Nice try?

 

[lutherblsstt]

What does the fact that he's quoting have anything to do w/ the argument at hand?

It is his pet red herring.

 

[lutherblsstt]

I have debated with him quite a bit in other threads... if you see his MO, all he does is copy and paste. Not exactly debating. Hard to argue with a writer of an article, since he/she is not here.

Adams

The following questions and/or statements that you failed to address are in my own words,here they are again:

1."Who decides who needs to be assasinated? Would you pull the trigger on Obama?"

2. If you feel your "freedoms are still entact" whatever that means,I have a book recommendation that may heighten your awareness a bit:

Title: The Soft Cage - Surveillance in America from Slavery to the War on Terror
Author: Christian Parenti

Review here:

http://www.techsoc.com/softcage.htm

3. By that (the only country withballs) you mean the only one willing to invade countries that pose no threat to us?

4. No we don't have to act as the world police,we choose to. Also,we have played a part in many atrocities.

5. No I mean the atomic bombs that were dropped where after the first about 90,000 people were killed immediately; another 40,000 were injured, many of whom died in agony from radiation sickness. Three days later, a second atomic strike on the city of Nagasaki killed 37,000 people and injured another 43,000 despite the fact that Japan already had been defeated militarily by June 1945. Almost nothing was left of the Imperial Navy, and Japan's air force had been almost totally destroyed.

6. Let me close this part with a couple quotes,now don't go off on a red herring about copy and pasting,stick to the subject:

7. Your ridiculous analogy of the bully and the little kid when dealing with a complex issue with cumulative causation would be funny if it were not so sad.

8.Do you actually think that the US invaded Iraq to help the Iraqi people? Are you that dense?

9.Why didn't we invade Chile when Pinochet was in power?

10. Why have we not invaded Turkey?

11. I said "Expatriates are not necessarily happy in their new country; they may be there for a variety of reasons" also "Sometimes you have to be pragmatic too, and choose your least worse option. "

 

[nopeace]

Overall many people and Governments speculate that the US wants complete control of the world's resources.

So anyone with oil is our target.