Global Warming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  1. [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5WlQ54Sg0"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]
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  2. Omen, my nigga! I didn't know you were so hippity-hoppity. lol

    Yeah, I read a science article a few days ago that showed the ice sheet growing in Iceland, not receding. I also saw another article that explained why. It stated that sunspot activity is the lowest it's been in about 100 years, so the globe is actually cooling due to poor solar contribution. I found this in a USA Today article about the new 2009 Almanac, check it out:

    Old Farmers Almanac: Global cooling may be underway
    Posted 9/9/2008 4:56

    By David Tirrell-Wysocki, Associated Press Writer
    DUBLIN, N.H. The Old Farmer's Almanac is going further out on a limb than usual this year, not only forecasting a cooler winter, but looking ahead decades to suggest we are in for global cooling, not warming.

    Based on the same time-honored, complex calculations it uses to predict weather, the Almanac hits the newsstands on Tuesday saying a study of solar activity and corresponding records on ocean temperatures and climate point to a cooler, not warmer, climate, for perhaps the next half century.

    "We at the Almanac are among those who believe that sunspot cycles and their effects on oceans correlate with climate changes," writes meteorologist and climatologist Joseph D'Aleo. "Studying these and other factor suggests that cold, not warm, climate may be our future."

    It remains to be seen, said Editor-in-Chief Jud Hale, whether the human impact on global temperatures will cancel out or override any cooling trend.

    "We say that if human beings were not contributing to global warming, it would become real cold in the next 50 years," Hale said.


    These researchers are saying we better start warming the environment, otherwise the cooling trend will predominate before the century is over.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    wow.. never heard that before.. I take it your a loose change fan?

    and as far as global warning I think presidential canidate sarah palin said it best "I'm not going to solely blame all of man's activities on changes in climate because the world's weather patterns are cyclical, and over history we have seen changes there. But it kinda doesn't matter at this point in the debate what caused it. The point is it's real; we need to do something about it."

    it doesnt matter what caused it as long as we get rid of it and pray it doesnt come back ...
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  4. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    wow.. never heard that before.. I take it your a loose change fan?

    and as far as global warning I think presidential canidate sarah palin said it best "I'm not going to solely blame all of man's activities on changes in climate because the world's weather patterns are cyclical, and over history we have seen changes there. But it kinda doesn't matter at this point in the debate what caused it. The point is it's real; we need to do something about it."

    it doesnt matter what caused it as long as we get rid of it and pray it doesnt come back ...
    Um, are you serious? You're assuming that:

    A. Man, at his current state has the ability to significantly affect global temperature.
    B. That this climate change has already affected earth's temperatures and is in remission

    Both these assumptions have yet to be proven in any scientific manner.

    No reputable scientist will deny that the greenhouse effect has driven climate change well before man inhabited the worth. Volcanic activity has long been a catalyst in temperature change in earth. Its the main reason we go from dinosaurs to wooly mammoths.

    However, you will be hard pressed to find a scientist that will show correlation and causation between man's activities and a change in earth's temperature.

    To show the fundamental flaw in the global warming argument:

    The ice caps have melted due to climate change. Man is industrialized and produces poll greenhouse gases, which in large enough quantities cause global warming. Did I mention the ice caps that melted I was referring to were on MARS. Yes, I'm not making this up, Mar's ice caps melted recently. Using the same logic, it was the fault of man.
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  5. you misunderstood the point... the part in bold I find amusing is the fact she says it doesnt matter what caused global warming we just need to fix it... How can you fix a problem if you dont kno what causing the problem? If you have a water leak in a pipe and the floor is getting wet is it logically to just mop the floor and hope water stops getting there? Or does it make more sense to figure out why water is there and solve whatever is causing the water to get there??

    I no way near understand global warming and honestly never even wondered.. so I cant debate that, I was not implying the man caused the problem just pointing out her logic
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  6. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    you misunderstood the point... the part in bold I find amusing is the fact she says it doesnt matter what caused global warming we just need to fix it... How can you fix a problem if you dont kno what causing the problem? If you have a water leak in a pipe and the floor is getting wet is it logically to just mop the floor and hope water stops getting there? Or does it make more sense to figure out why water is there and solve whatever is causing the water to get there??

    I no way near understand global warming and honestly never even wondered.. so I cant debate that, I was not implying the man caused the problem just pointing out her logic
    Ah ok. Sorry, misunderstood your point. That drives me crazy when the right wing candidates caters nonstop to left BS propaganda.

  7. no prob .. wish I knew more about the issue though.. could have been a good discussion as I was always under the belief that global warming was mostly man caused.. but it is prolly juss brainwashing from everything I hear everywhere else
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    no prob .. wish I knew more about the issue though.. could have been a good discussion as I was always under the belief that global warming was mostly man caused.. but it is prolly juss brainwashing from everything I hear everywhere else
    Yeah. I was the same way. I learned about global warming in elementary school and the teachers taught it like it was gospel. Just like evolution. Just like the New Deal. Just like the Civil War. Its amazing how jaded you can get about grade school when you do some independent research.

  9. Global warming (human-caused) is such bull$hit. Now, didn't planet Earth have an ice age? Gee...what happened to all that ice and snow? I'd blame it on global warming caused by all the farting eskimos and wooly mammoths...ya....that's why the planet warmed up. So stupid.

    This is such a weak topic if you're arguing that HUMANS cause global warming. The planet has its own cycles.

    Are people going to blame the reversal of the magnetic N/S poles on us too? They have changed in the past (millions of years ago). When they begin to change again, are we going to say we're mining too much metal from the Earth and most of the ferrous metals are on East and West part of the globe, thereby changing N/S to E/W and fuqqing us all royally?

    LAME

  10. gobal warming is tree hugging hippie bull****! earth is on a never ending cycle of ice ages. we are just nearing another one!

  11. Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf

  12. Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf
    To relate it to terms liberals use and understand, by creating a panic, similar to post-9/11, Government uses their new found power to strip individual liberties, property rights, and build bigger government. Government as an institution stands to gain the most from "climate change", yet they're the ones funding the vast majority of the studies.

    Here's a nice Algore quote:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." -- Al Gore

    Let's modify that quote to show you how hypocritical many liberals are:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (Iraq) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are (Going to war), and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."

  13. Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf
    go take a elementary geology course...you'll find your answers there!

  14. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    To relate it to terms liberals use and understand, by creating a panic, similar to post-9/11, Government uses their new found power to strip individual liberties, property rights, and build bigger government. Government as an institution stands to gain the most from "climate change", yet they're the ones funding the vast majority of the studies.

    Here's a nice Algore quote:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." -- Al Gore

    Let's modify that quote to show you how hypocritical many liberals are:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (Iraq) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are (Going to war), and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
    Sorry. I'm not from America so I don't really understand, or sympathize with, this need to reduce all political/philosophical/sociological arguments to a battle of conservative vs liberal. I'm not either of those things. I don't see how the Iraq war relates to global warming, and I don't see how my opinion on one necessarily determines my opinion on the other.

    The first part of your post however I find very interesting. The argument of goverments using fear to bolster their power is a pretty reasonable one imho. But do you have any factual evidence/examples of it happening in relation to global warming?

    The only thing I can think of off hand is increased tax on petrol (gas). But having said that most governments are also decreasing the cost of alternative energy sources, which would tend to imply a genuine desire to cut carbon emissions rather than simply an attempt to tax people more.

    If you have something better to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by raginfcktard
    go take a elementary geology course...you'll find your answers there!
    WOW powerful argument! Who needs verbal reasoning when you can just arrogantly condescend people!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Sorry. I'm not from America so I don't really understand, or sympathize with, this need to reduce all political/philosophical/sociological arguments to a battle of conservative vs liberal. I'm not either of those things. I don't see how the Iraq war relates to global warming, and I don't see how my opinion on one necessarily determines my opinion on the other.
    No, my point was that liberals in America constantly complain about how Bush lied to them as a pretext to go to war. In that quote Algore is advocating lying to the people as a pretext to deal with global warming. The same principle applies to both arguments and that is what I was trying to highlight.

    The first part of your post however I find very interesting. The argument of goverments using fear to bolster their power is a pretty reasonable one imho. But do you have any factual evidence/examples of it happening in relation to global warming?

    The only thing I can think of off hand is increased tax on petrol (gas). But having said that most governments are also decreasing the cost of alternative energy sources, which would tend to imply a genuine desire to cut carbon emissions rather than simply an attempt to tax people more.
    I'll list everything I can think of offhand:

    1. Increasing the size and budget of government. (Environmental Protection Agency, Dept of the Interior, "Scientific" Organizations to study it, ect.)

    2. Controlling infrastructure growth. Carbon emissions is a catch all that can control land use, industrial developments, military exercises, citizen's travelling, ect.

    3. As way to make money, as you already stated. This includes "cap and trade" carbon taxes, driving tolls nationwide as a means to "decrease" automobile usage, and many others I'm sure I missed.

    4. As a justification to cater to lobbyists in areas such as ethanol/farming production, wind and solar power companies, and other "green" companies.

    These are just a few of the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Essentially, you can accomplish whatever you want by controlling the country's energy and resource production, which is the government whether implicitly or explicitly is seeking to do.

  16. oh christ here we go...

    graph of CO2 in ice cores over 650,000 years of greenhouse gasses...see the trend



    ...another of glacial cycle

    Glacial cycles (sry wouldn't embed the image)

    earth has tendency of repeating itself...humans have little impact on earth as a whole but have caused localized problematic areas. nothing we can to do stop it! we need to focus on living in the future rather than trying to fix the present!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    These are just a few of the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Essentially, you can accomplish whatever you want by controlling the country's energy and resource production, which is the government whether implicitly or explicitly is seeking to do.
    I can't deny that it's a reasonable argument. Maybe even one that we should here more of in the media. To sum up my personal feelings:

    I live about 200 miles north of the artic circle and climate change is a big issue here. It's not too cold as the area is kept relatively warm by arctic currents (the gulf stream). Alot of climatologists beleive the current could stop if climate trends continue, which would basically make my home virtually uninhabitable. Alternatively, it could all be a hoax and we could end up with a bunch of extra taxes and a more powerful government...

    Personally, the first one worries me alot more. Taxes change all the time, and the idea of a government having control of the country doesn't really scare given that, that is essentially what they are elected to do (in that respect I may well be a liberal by american standards). My home disappearing however would be permanent.

  18. Flames on the Fire:

    Non oil-dominant countries, and countries with huge vested investments into alternative energy sources (natural gas, solar, hydrogen, etc.) have quite the economic incentive to claim man-made global warming.

    Hippies just want to return man to some illusory "natural state" of existence...that's their motivation.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    I can't deny that it's a reasonable argument. Maybe even one that we should here more of in the media. To sum up my personal feelings:

    I live about 200 miles north of the artic circle and climate change is a big issue here. It's not too cold as the area is kept relatively warm by arctic currents (the gulf stream). Alot of climatologists beleive the current could stop if climate trends continue, which would basically make my home virtually uninhabitable. Alternatively, it could all be a hoax and we could end up with a bunch of extra taxes and a more powerful government...

    Personally, the first one worries me alot more. Taxes change all the time, and the idea of a government having control of the country doesn't really scare given that, that is essentially what they are elected to do (in that respect I may well be a liberal by american standards). My home disappearing however would be permanent.
    Agreed....IF it was true that man causes it, then global warming is a very serious issue. However, nobody can PROVE that is true. It is all speculation and wishful thinking. Its the politics and economics of faith. Would you put your economy in the hands of priests or businessmen?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Flames on the Fire:

    Non oil-dominant countries, and countries with huge vested investments into alternative energy sources (natural gas, solar, hydrogen, etc.) have quite the economic incentive to claim man-made global warming.
    Norway (where I live) is the 3rd largest exporter of oil in the world, with a population of less than 5 million. Needless to say: Oil is a large part of the economy. But the state is still investing lots of money to cut carbon emissions. I think carbon emessions have been cut by something like 10% since 1990. Offically the government has stated that the country will be 'carbon free' by 2030.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
    Agreed....IF it was true that man causes it, then global warming is a very serious issue. However, nobody can PROVE that is true. It is all speculation and wishful thinking. Its the politics and economics of faith. Would you put your economy in the hands of priests or businessmen?
    It may not be as certain a scientific fact as gravity, death or taxes. But when organisations like the American National Academy of Sciences are supporting it, and nobel prizes are being given out for climatology work, you have to admit it's slightly more than speculation and wishful thinking. No?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    It may not be as certain a scientific fact as gravity, death or taxes. But when organisations like the American National Academy of Sciences are supporting it, and nobel prizes are being given out for climatology work, you have to admit it's slightly more than speculation and wishful thinking. No?
    I don't build my ideas based upon reputations, but upon facts. Yasir Arafat and Algore got Nobel prizes. That doesn't exactly help the reputation of the Noble prize. Plus the American National Academy of Science is an organization funded by the US government. Obviously their findings may be swayed by focusing on findings that support future funding.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I don't build my ideas based upon reputations, but upon facts. Yasir Arafat and Algore got Nobel prizes. That doesn't exactly help the reputation of the Noble prize. Plus the American National Academy of Science is an organization funded by the US government. Obviously their findings may be swayed by focusing on findings that support future funding.
    Fair point.

  23. (Option A)

    Lets say that global warming is real, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something useful, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.

    Lets says its real, we do nothing to stop it, end result: The world falls into utter chaos, due to mass starvation, floods, governmental collapse.

    (Option B)

    Fake, do nothing about it: The world continues to pollute itself, making more and more land/water uninhabitable.

    Fake, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something usefull, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.




    How can we lose by believeing in it?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    (Option A)

    Lets say that global warming is real, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something useful, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.

    Lets says its real, we do nothing to stop it, end result: The world falls into utter chaos, due to mass starvation, floods, governmental collapse.

    (Option B)

    Fake, do nothing about it: The world continues to pollute itself, making more and more land/water uninhabitable.

    Fake, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something usefull, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.



    How can we lose by believeing in it?
    -----------------
    Did you find that on youtube? Anyways, your logic can be used for almost anything. What if the killer bee's come and we do nothing? What if it's fake? bahhhh anyways man-made global warming is a fairy tale use by environmentalists to shut down the oil industries
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