Global Warming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5WlQ54Sg0"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]
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    Omen, my nigga! I didn't know you were so hippity-hoppity. lol

    Yeah, I read a science article a few days ago that showed the ice sheet growing in Iceland, not receding. I also saw another article that explained why. It stated that sunspot activity is the lowest it's been in about 100 years, so the globe is actually cooling due to poor solar contribution. I found this in a USA Today article about the new 2009 Almanac, check it out:

    Old Farmers Almanac: Global cooling may be underway
    Posted 9/9/2008 4:56

    By David Tirrell-Wysocki, Associated Press Writer
    DUBLIN, N.H. The Old Farmer's Almanac is going further out on a limb than usual this year, not only forecasting a cooler winter, but looking ahead decades to suggest we are in for global cooling, not warming.

    Based on the same time-honored, complex calculations it uses to predict weather, the Almanac hits the newsstands on Tuesday saying a study of solar activity and corresponding records on ocean temperatures and climate point to a cooler, not warmer, climate, for perhaps the next half century.

    "We at the Almanac are among those who believe that sunspot cycles and their effects on oceans correlate with climate changes," writes meteorologist and climatologist Joseph D'Aleo. "Studying these and other factor suggests that cold, not warm, climate may be our future."

    It remains to be seen, said Editor-in-Chief Jud Hale, whether the human impact on global temperatures will cancel out or override any cooling trend.

    "We say that if human beings were not contributing to global warming, it would become real cold in the next 50 years," Hale said.


    These researchers are saying we better start warming the environment, otherwise the cooling trend will predominate before the century is over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    wow.. never heard that before.. I take it your a loose change fan?

    and as far as global warning I think presidential canidate sarah palin said it best "I'm not going to solely blame all of man's activities on changes in climate because the world's weather patterns are cyclical, and over history we have seen changes there. But it kinda doesn't matter at this point in the debate what caused it. The point is it's real; we need to do something about it."

    it doesnt matter what caused it as long as we get rid of it and pray it doesnt come back ...
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    wow.. never heard that before.. I take it your a loose change fan?

    and as far as global warning I think presidential canidate sarah palin said it best "I'm not going to solely blame all of man's activities on changes in climate because the world's weather patterns are cyclical, and over history we have seen changes there. But it kinda doesn't matter at this point in the debate what caused it. The point is it's real; we need to do something about it."

    it doesnt matter what caused it as long as we get rid of it and pray it doesnt come back ...
    Um, are you serious? You're assuming that:

    A. Man, at his current state has the ability to significantly affect global temperature.
    B. That this climate change has already affected earth's temperatures and is in remission

    Both these assumptions have yet to be proven in any scientific manner.

    No reputable scientist will deny that the greenhouse effect has driven climate change well before man inhabited the worth. Volcanic activity has long been a catalyst in temperature change in earth. Its the main reason we go from dinosaurs to wooly mammoths.

    However, you will be hard pressed to find a scientist that will show correlation and causation between man's activities and a change in earth's temperature.

    To show the fundamental flaw in the global warming argument:

    The ice caps have melted due to climate change. Man is industrialized and produces poll greenhouse gases, which in large enough quantities cause global warming. Did I mention the ice caps that melted I was referring to were on MARS. Yes, I'm not making this up, Mar's ice caps melted recently. Using the same logic, it was the fault of man.
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    you misunderstood the point... the part in bold I find amusing is the fact she says it doesnt matter what caused global warming we just need to fix it... How can you fix a problem if you dont kno what causing the problem? If you have a water leak in a pipe and the floor is getting wet is it logically to just mop the floor and hope water stops getting there? Or does it make more sense to figure out why water is there and solve whatever is causing the water to get there??

    I no way near understand global warming and honestly never even wondered.. so I cant debate that, I was not implying the man caused the problem just pointing out her logic
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    you misunderstood the point... the part in bold I find amusing is the fact she says it doesnt matter what caused global warming we just need to fix it... How can you fix a problem if you dont kno what causing the problem? If you have a water leak in a pipe and the floor is getting wet is it logically to just mop the floor and hope water stops getting there? Or does it make more sense to figure out why water is there and solve whatever is causing the water to get there??

    I no way near understand global warming and honestly never even wondered.. so I cant debate that, I was not implying the man caused the problem just pointing out her logic
    Ah ok. Sorry, misunderstood your point. That drives me crazy when the right wing candidates caters nonstop to left BS propaganda.
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    no prob .. wish I knew more about the issue though.. could have been a good discussion as I was always under the belief that global warming was mostly man caused.. but it is prolly juss brainwashing from everything I hear everywhere else
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    no prob .. wish I knew more about the issue though.. could have been a good discussion as I was always under the belief that global warming was mostly man caused.. but it is prolly juss brainwashing from everything I hear everywhere else
    Yeah. I was the same way. I learned about global warming in elementary school and the teachers taught it like it was gospel. Just like evolution. Just like the New Deal. Just like the Civil War. Its amazing how jaded you can get about grade school when you do some independent research.
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    Global warming (human-caused) is such bull$hit. Now, didn't planet Earth have an ice age? Gee...what happened to all that ice and snow? I'd blame it on global warming caused by all the farting eskimos and wooly mammoths...ya....that's why the planet warmed up. So stupid.

    This is such a weak topic if you're arguing that HUMANS cause global warming. The planet has its own cycles.

    Are people going to blame the reversal of the magnetic N/S poles on us too? They have changed in the past (millions of years ago). When they begin to change again, are we going to say we're mining too much metal from the Earth and most of the ferrous metals are on East and West part of the globe, thereby changing N/S to E/W and fuqqing us all royally?

    LAME
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    gobal warming is tree hugging hippie bull****! earth is on a never ending cycle of ice ages. we are just nearing another one!
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    Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf
    To relate it to terms liberals use and understand, by creating a panic, similar to post-9/11, Government uses their new found power to strip individual liberties, property rights, and build bigger government. Government as an institution stands to gain the most from "climate change", yet they're the ones funding the vast majority of the studies.

    Here's a nice Algore quote:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." -- Al Gore

    Let's modify that quote to show you how hypocritical many liberals are:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (Iraq) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are (Going to war), and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Big energy companies have a lot to gain from arguing that there is no global warming.

    What exactly do 'hippies' have to gain from arguing that it does exist?

    I'm assuming that by 'hippies' you mean people like The Joint Science Acadamies for the G8+5 countries?

    http://www.nationalacademies.org/inc...estatement.pdf
    go take a elementary geology course...you'll find your answers there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    To relate it to terms liberals use and understand, by creating a panic, similar to post-9/11, Government uses their new found power to strip individual liberties, property rights, and build bigger government. Government as an institution stands to gain the most from "climate change", yet they're the ones funding the vast majority of the studies.

    Here's a nice Algore quote:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." -- Al Gore

    Let's modify that quote to show you how hypocritical many liberals are:

    "In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (Iraq) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are (Going to war), and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
    Sorry. I'm not from America so I don't really understand, or sympathize with, this need to reduce all political/philosophical/sociological arguments to a battle of conservative vs liberal. I'm not either of those things. I don't see how the Iraq war relates to global warming, and I don't see how my opinion on one necessarily determines my opinion on the other.

    The first part of your post however I find very interesting. The argument of goverments using fear to bolster their power is a pretty reasonable one imho. But do you have any factual evidence/examples of it happening in relation to global warming?

    The only thing I can think of off hand is increased tax on petrol (gas). But having said that most governments are also decreasing the cost of alternative energy sources, which would tend to imply a genuine desire to cut carbon emissions rather than simply an attempt to tax people more.

    If you have something better to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by raginfcktard
    go take a elementary geology course...you'll find your answers there!
    WOW powerful argument! Who needs verbal reasoning when you can just arrogantly condescend people!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    Sorry. I'm not from America so I don't really understand, or sympathize with, this need to reduce all political/philosophical/sociological arguments to a battle of conservative vs liberal. I'm not either of those things. I don't see how the Iraq war relates to global warming, and I don't see how my opinion on one necessarily determines my opinion on the other.
    No, my point was that liberals in America constantly complain about how Bush lied to them as a pretext to go to war. In that quote Algore is advocating lying to the people as a pretext to deal with global warming. The same principle applies to both arguments and that is what I was trying to highlight.

    The first part of your post however I find very interesting. The argument of goverments using fear to bolster their power is a pretty reasonable one imho. But do you have any factual evidence/examples of it happening in relation to global warming?

    The only thing I can think of off hand is increased tax on petrol (gas). But having said that most governments are also decreasing the cost of alternative energy sources, which would tend to imply a genuine desire to cut carbon emissions rather than simply an attempt to tax people more.
    I'll list everything I can think of offhand:

    1. Increasing the size and budget of government. (Environmental Protection Agency, Dept of the Interior, "Scientific" Organizations to study it, ect.)

    2. Controlling infrastructure growth. Carbon emissions is a catch all that can control land use, industrial developments, military exercises, citizen's travelling, ect.

    3. As way to make money, as you already stated. This includes "cap and trade" carbon taxes, driving tolls nationwide as a means to "decrease" automobile usage, and many others I'm sure I missed.

    4. As a justification to cater to lobbyists in areas such as ethanol/farming production, wind and solar power companies, and other "green" companies.

    These are just a few of the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Essentially, you can accomplish whatever you want by controlling the country's energy and resource production, which is the government whether implicitly or explicitly is seeking to do.
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    oh christ here we go...

    graph of CO2 in ice cores over 650,000 years of greenhouse gasses...see the trend



    ...another of glacial cycle

    Glacial cycles (sry wouldn't embed the image)

    earth has tendency of repeating itself...humans have little impact on earth as a whole but have caused localized problematic areas. nothing we can to do stop it! we need to focus on living in the future rather than trying to fix the present!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    These are just a few of the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Essentially, you can accomplish whatever you want by controlling the country's energy and resource production, which is the government whether implicitly or explicitly is seeking to do.
    I can't deny that it's a reasonable argument. Maybe even one that we should here more of in the media. To sum up my personal feelings:

    I live about 200 miles north of the artic circle and climate change is a big issue here. It's not too cold as the area is kept relatively warm by arctic currents (the gulf stream). Alot of climatologists beleive the current could stop if climate trends continue, which would basically make my home virtually uninhabitable. Alternatively, it could all be a hoax and we could end up with a bunch of extra taxes and a more powerful government...

    Personally, the first one worries me alot more. Taxes change all the time, and the idea of a government having control of the country doesn't really scare given that, that is essentially what they are elected to do (in that respect I may well be a liberal by american standards). My home disappearing however would be permanent.
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    Flames on the Fire:

    Non oil-dominant countries, and countries with huge vested investments into alternative energy sources (natural gas, solar, hydrogen, etc.) have quite the economic incentive to claim man-made global warming.

    Hippies just want to return man to some illusory "natural state" of existence...that's their motivation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    I can't deny that it's a reasonable argument. Maybe even one that we should here more of in the media. To sum up my personal feelings:

    I live about 200 miles north of the artic circle and climate change is a big issue here. It's not too cold as the area is kept relatively warm by arctic currents (the gulf stream). Alot of climatologists beleive the current could stop if climate trends continue, which would basically make my home virtually uninhabitable. Alternatively, it could all be a hoax and we could end up with a bunch of extra taxes and a more powerful government...

    Personally, the first one worries me alot more. Taxes change all the time, and the idea of a government having control of the country doesn't really scare given that, that is essentially what they are elected to do (in that respect I may well be a liberal by american standards). My home disappearing however would be permanent.
    Agreed....IF it was true that man causes it, then global warming is a very serious issue. However, nobody can PROVE that is true. It is all speculation and wishful thinking. Its the politics and economics of faith. Would you put your economy in the hands of priests or businessmen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Flames on the Fire:

    Non oil-dominant countries, and countries with huge vested investments into alternative energy sources (natural gas, solar, hydrogen, etc.) have quite the economic incentive to claim man-made global warming.
    Norway (where I live) is the 3rd largest exporter of oil in the world, with a population of less than 5 million. Needless to say: Oil is a large part of the economy. But the state is still investing lots of money to cut carbon emissions. I think carbon emessions have been cut by something like 10% since 1990. Offically the government has stated that the country will be 'carbon free' by 2030.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
    Agreed....IF it was true that man causes it, then global warming is a very serious issue. However, nobody can PROVE that is true. It is all speculation and wishful thinking. Its the politics and economics of faith. Would you put your economy in the hands of priests or businessmen?
    It may not be as certain a scientific fact as gravity, death or taxes. But when organisations like the American National Academy of Sciences are supporting it, and nobel prizes are being given out for climatology work, you have to admit it's slightly more than speculation and wishful thinking. No?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer View Post
    It may not be as certain a scientific fact as gravity, death or taxes. But when organisations like the American National Academy of Sciences are supporting it, and nobel prizes are being given out for climatology work, you have to admit it's slightly more than speculation and wishful thinking. No?
    I don't build my ideas based upon reputations, but upon facts. Yasir Arafat and Algore got Nobel prizes. That doesn't exactly help the reputation of the Noble prize. Plus the American National Academy of Science is an organization funded by the US government. Obviously their findings may be swayed by focusing on findings that support future funding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I don't build my ideas based upon reputations, but upon facts. Yasir Arafat and Algore got Nobel prizes. That doesn't exactly help the reputation of the Noble prize. Plus the American National Academy of Science is an organization funded by the US government. Obviously their findings may be swayed by focusing on findings that support future funding.
    Fair point.
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    (Option A)

    Lets say that global warming is real, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something useful, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.

    Lets says its real, we do nothing to stop it, end result: The world falls into utter chaos, due to mass starvation, floods, governmental collapse.

    (Option B)

    Fake, do nothing about it: The world continues to pollute itself, making more and more land/water uninhabitable.

    Fake, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something usefull, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.




    How can we lose by believeing in it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    (Option A)

    Lets say that global warming is real, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something useful, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.

    Lets says its real, we do nothing to stop it, end result: The world falls into utter chaos, due to mass starvation, floods, governmental collapse.

    (Option B)

    Fake, do nothing about it: The world continues to pollute itself, making more and more land/water uninhabitable.

    Fake, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something usefull, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.



    How can we lose by believeing in it?
    -----------------
    Did you find that on youtube? Anyways, your logic can be used for almost anything. What if the killer bee's come and we do nothing? What if it's fake? bahhhh anyways man-made global warming is a fairy tale use by environmentalists to shut down the oil industries
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    Pay attention to who published the article...:

    http://news.aol.com/story/_a/climate...00010000000001
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJC408 View Post
    -----------------
    Did you find that on youtube? Anyways, your logic can be used for almost anything. What if the killer bee's come and we do nothing? What if it's fake? bahhhh anyways man-made global warming is a fairy tale use by environmentalists to shut down the oil industries
    Did you say youtube? What impact do you think this would have on the environment...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHT0hBgVOw&feature=re lated"]YouTube - Water Car Inventor Killed... Full Story[/ame]

    If global warming was really that serious, why wasn't this technology exploited decades ago? You can find an endless number of average Joes on youtube making Meyers cells literally in their back yard. It seems a Japanese company is even planning to market one soon. Another guy in Australia offers a 5 hr class that walks you though the process of converting your gas engine to water for less than 1500 bucks! Oil is a limited resource and getting less and less cost effective to extract I'm sure. Do you really think the big energy companies don't already have uranium dealers, or water cartels (or whatever the next big fuel source will be) on the pay role?

    The guy who designed this 'carbon free' vehicle signed a contract with the DOD after rejecting an OPEC bribe to shut up. He mysteriously died of food poisoning the very next day, quite tragic. The message seems fairly clear. The government doesn't give a sh!t if people play with this technology, but you dare not commercialize it!

    It's safe to say that big money calls the shots, regardless if the globe is warming or cooling. That's my point. Now be a good boy and go put your recycling can out by the street so you can feel like your saving the environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    (Option A)

    Lets say that global warming is real, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something useful, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.

    Lets says its real, we do nothing to stop it, end result: The world falls into utter chaos, due to mass starvation, floods, governmental collapse.

    (Option B)

    Fake, do nothing about it: The world continues to pollute itself, making more and more land/water uninhabitable.

    Fake, and we do everything we can to stop it, end result: We've gained a more environmentally aware society that has put R&D money towards something usefull, creating a more sustainable lifestyle.
    I prefer facts to justify tyrannical policies, not faerie tales. Read Algore's quote above and you see where my skepticism comes from. I remember learning in school 20 years ago that New York would be underwater today. Hmmm.

    How can we lose by believeing in it?
    We can lose in many ways:

    -Hindering future technological developments
    -Victimizing businesses that create jobs and therefore hindering economic growth
    -Government curtailing of civil liberties in the name of "the environment
    -Banning flat panel TVs that aren't environmentally friendly (actually in the legislative body of California)

    The potential government abuses are endless.
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    I didn't read the entire thread but I dont understand why this is debated.. okay fine I get that the earth goes the climate change and it is inevitable, fine. I get that it isnt man made and infact due to natural climate changes, fine. Those are good points but not points against it.
    Where are the articles that show pollution isnt adding on the the problem??? Man might not be directly causing it, but we sure aint helping delay it much.. Why not make companies more fuel efficent? why not make more hybrid cars? where is the downside? Yes climate change is coming and yes ice caps are melting and whatever else is happening as a result of this. We might not be able to stop it from coming but we can delay it instead of helping speed it up... Don't you think?

    and rob you state how our it is being exploited, okay so I guess that might be a downside but hey free market, if you can get enough people to believe in the crap you are "selling" and sell it right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    To relate it to terms liberals use and understand, by creating a panic, similar to post-9/11, Government uses their new found power to strip individual liberties, property rights, and build bigger government. Government as an institution stands to gain the most from "climate change", yet they're the ones funding the vast majority of the studies.
    how is this hyped up? cuz of the oil crisis? I didnt think that was govnt funded.. isnt that speculators for the oil companies predicting that one day we might run out of oil so sell high now?? Or most likely a fear of Obama and his speeches of alternative fuel so lets get all the money we can now, it has happened before they raise the prices we start talking hybrid and the prices fall back down and everyone forgets about it, but I am getting off topic I dont see how this relates to global warming
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I didn't read the entire thread but I dont understand why this is debated.. okay fine I get that the earth goes the climate change and it is inevitable, fine. I get that it isnt man made and infact due to natural climate changes, fine. Those are good points but not points against it.
    Where are the articles that show pollution isnt adding on the the problem??? Man might not be directly causing it, but we sure aint helping delay it much.. Why not make companies more fuel efficent? why not make more hybrid cars? where is the downside? Yes climate change is coming and yes ice caps are melting and whatever else is happening as a result of this. We might not be able to stop it from coming but we can delay it instead of helping speed it up... Don't you think?
    So you want the government to engineer and mastermind the economy, just in case the voodoo *may* be true?

    Why not have the government raise my kids for me just in case I *may* be negligent some day?

    Why not have the government design my diet and workout for me, just in case I *may* be doing it wrong?

    The US was founded on INDIVIDUAL liberties and extremely limited government invention. This is an excuse to undermine the foundation of our free society and create an environment of autocratic government rule.
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    undermine the foundation of society??? Why i think that is a stretch there.. okay let me try and re-explain my view on this..

    there is articles and graphs posted above(which I didnt read cuz im lazy ) and they show that global warming is real and is coming and we can stop it, true?

    they also show that this has been occuring forever now and isnt man made, true?

    okay both those facts are cool with me, I didnt kno that before, but how does that negate the fact that our pollution is contributing to this effect?? Are there studies that carbon pollution has 0 effect on our enviroment? the carbon emmisions has 0 effect on our bodies?

    why is it bad to reduce something that is harmful? the examples you say above about the diet and children are way off.. that is our govnt specalating, I dont think it is a guess that carbon gasses are effecting our world and bodies so why not try and reduce it?

    *side not* I did learn that we werent actually causing it from this thread as I was always under the belief that this was our fault guess not
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by raginfcktard View Post
    oh christ here we go...

    graph of CO2 in ice cores over 650,000 years of greenhouse gasses...see the trend



    ...another of glacial cycle

    Glacial cycles (sry wouldn't embed the image)

    earth has tendency of repeating itself...humans have little impact on earth as a whole but have caused localized problematic areas. nothing we can to do stop it! we need to focus on living in the future rather than trying to fix the present!
    I agree with you, but, how does a scientists really know the actual climate that was over 650,000 years ago? In my opinion, I dont think the trends we see can really be observed to that extent of time. Furthermore, I think that a "fact" like that is probably based off the same tools global warming alarmists use in their studies... computer models based of speculation of current trends...

    I could be wrong, just a thought though =]
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    ... I dont think it is a guess that carbon gasses are effecting our world and bodies so why not try and reduce it?
    You're right. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to try and reduce it. Who knows, it might even help. If the government says it's important to reduce carbon emissions, then citizens have no choice but to trust it's somehow for the best.

    Nobody listens or cares anyway, and at this point that's probably for the best. Henceforth, I officially giving up on politics Josh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    You're right. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to try and reduce it. Who knows, it might even help. If the government says it's important to reduce carbon emissions, then citizens have no choice but to trust it's somehow for the best.

    Nobody listens or cares anyway, and at this point that's probably for the best. Henceforth, I officially giving up on politics Josh.
    But it does hurt to reduce emissions. Government is trying to enact a cap and trade system. Who do you think is going to regulate how many emissions businesses are going to be able to emit? The Government. Energy fuels the economy, but if government puts regulations on energy, who controls the economy now? Good bye capitalism. Hello Socialism!

    It WILL cost the US to reduce emissions, that's not exactly where we need to be spending our money with trillions in IOU's! =[
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJC408 View Post
    But it does hurt to reduce emissions. Government is trying to enact a cap and trade system. Who do you think is going to regulate how many emissions businesses are going to be able to emit? The Government. Energy fuels the economy, but if government puts regulations on energy, who controls the economy now? Good bye capitalism. Hello Socialism!

    It WILL cost the US to reduce emissions, that's not exactly where we need to be spending our money with trillions in IOU's! =[

    socialism??? wow that is a stretch there.. how did you get it there, im interested in ur reasoning for that?''

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    You're right. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to try and reduce it. Who knows, it might even help. If the government says it's important to reduce carbon emissions, then citizens have no choice but to trust it's somehow for the best.

    Nobody listens or cares anyway, and at this point that's probably for the best. Henceforth, I officially giving up on politics Josh.
    and i;m not saying that its bad just cuz the govt says so, its far from that especialy cuz i dont believe nor trust the govt for jack **** especially even more since 9/11 i subscribe to the theories of loose change so I am definetely not saying to trust them that its bad cuz they say so... i am saying it is bad.... because it is bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    undermine the foundation of society??? Why i think that is a stretch there.. okay let me try and re-explain my view on this..
    No, its not a stretch at all. Imagine the locomotive never being invented because it caused pollutants and they couldn't afford the taxes on it. Imagine the assembly line and automobile never be made because it caused pollutants and they couldn't afford the taxes on it.

    This is central planning by government for the economy. Sounds a little like Soviet Russia to me.

    there is articles and graphs posted above(which I didnt read cuz im lazy ) and they show that global warming is real and is coming and we can stop it, true?
    No, it shows that we're in the middle of an ice age and its about ready to get a lot colder rather than hotter unless there's a hell of a lot more CO2 emissions.

    they also show that this has been occuring forever now and isnt man made, true?
    Yes, hence the dinosaur and woolly mammoths.

    okay both those facts are cool with me, I didnt kno that before, but how does that negate the fact that our pollution is contributing to this effect?? Are there studies that carbon pollution has 0 effect on our enviroment? the carbon emmisions has 0 effect on our bodies?
    If we are in the middle of an ice age, we want as much global warming as possible so Chicago and London aren't under a sheet of ice again.

    why is it bad to reduce something that is harmful? the examples you say above about the diet and children are way off.. that is our govnt specalating, I dont think it is a guess that carbon gasses are effecting our world and bodies so why not try and reduce it?
    It isn't *bad* to reduce CO2 emissions, what is bad is government central planning a countries economy. Its been shown to not be as effective as a free market economy. Hence China's rise to prosperity in the last 20 years.

    *side not* I did learn that we werent actually causing it from this thread as I was always under the belief that this was our fault guess not
    Yeah, that's what I was taught my whole life as well. There's very few legitimate sources of information the average person will ever hear on non-PC viewpoints in general. This is just one example.
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    don`t be afraid, we are doing just fine!
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    I`m worried about our children and future generations
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    why is it bad to reduce something that is harmful?
    Human flatulence contains Methanol, a known green house gas. Guess you won't mind if the government institutes a "Fart Tax" on you, based on the "maybe" tenuous evidence?

    By extension, how much more would you like to have to pay for your essential goods (food, clothing, shelter, etc.) because the increased regulations (again, a tenuous connection) are instituted "just in case". Can you afford another, say $200 a month? $300?

    I guarantee you one thing....eventually all cost increases are passed directly to the consumer, one way or another.
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    I read an article that I cant find now that was saying Australians are going to need to pay money to have more than one child.

    I mean after all, children exhale carbon dioxide which is a green house gas! haha ridiculous! (if someone can find this post, post it!) =]
  

  
 

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