Amero?

Page 3 of 3 First 123

  1. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Greed, aka enlightened self interest has historically been a major driving force in a America. One can whine about others having more stuff than them, or they can get off their ass and get more stuff.
    Why not buy a gun and take what i want?
    OR
    Is "getting things" and harming others in the process the point of life?

    Its the screw others over to get rich piece that i was alluding to with my metaphor with the batteries.

    Im not whining or on my ass i have what i need but see many needlessly suffer because of this inately greedy system.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    Why not buy a gun and take what i want?
    OR
    Is "getting things" and harming others in the process the point of life?

    Its the screw others over to get rich piece that i was alluding to with my metaphor with the batteries.

    Im not whining or on my ass i have what i need but see many needlessly suffer because of this inately greedy system.
    Why not rob someone? Well, the most obvious reason is that you will most likely get caught and spend the next 20 years in prison. That's not greedy, that's stupid.

    I'd compare Maddoff, Enron, and Stanford to the guy robbing someone. Its not good business. One stands to gain the most long term by keeping both parties in a given transaction happy.

    Enlightened self-interest is being as greedy as possible without infringing on other people's rights to do the same thing. Its the American way.

    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I see a lobbyist as the same as the miniature satan on the shoulder of cartoon tempting them. Ron Paul is a rarity, but so was a Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. Just because most of the legislative branch listens to their satan on their shoulder instead of the angel, does not mean they're not culpable.
    Jefferson sold out once in office. Generally speaking Jeffersonians are better than Jefferson himself. As for Lincoln, the guy was a ****ing monster. You actually like him? He presided over the biggest centralization of federal power to date, imprisoned people for simply disagreeing with him, gave his seal of approval to outright destruction and slaughter in the south, goaded them into war over the tarrif issue, purposefully excluded the union states and territories from the Emancipation Proclamation in what has to be the most cynical bid for international help to date, read people's mail, censored and closed down newspapers, etc., etc., etc.

    The guy was everything people like Ron Paul are against, I find it strange you mention them in the same sentence. Lincoln was arguably the first modern fascist ever to hold the highest executive position in any country on Earth.

    This is perhaps the oldest debate by historians. If Napoleon wasn't there, would France still have taken over Europe? I believe individuals drive the world, not groups and conditions.
    I believe individuals are incidental.

    I'm not saying those people are not worthy of respect, but I'm saying the cobbler wouldn't have a job without John Shoe, the creator of shoes. Employees fill a useful role, but creators are more important.
    And should that employee be thrifty and invest his money wisely, he is a creator at that point. People like John Shoe only look to employ him because he can create, in other words because he adds to their revenue stream through productive work. There is creation of ideas, and then there is creation of actual, tangible stuff.

    Hank Reardon created demand by creating Reardon Steel a new and innovative alloy. Dagny Taggart tapped into existing demand by creating a rail line that was previously not there. John Galt created a perpetual motion motor that he did not give to the world, though it was perhaps the greatest value to humanity ever. Had he brought that to the world, he would of cornered the market on all energy products in a brief amount of time. These the entrepreneurs used their own innovation to create value. They are super individuals who hold the world up.
    And that's where Ayn Rand was wrong. All an entrepreneur is, is someone who can forecast demand better than other people. Whether it is, as in the character of Reardon, bringing a new steel product to market, or some other person seeing and moving to fulfill some other want, elimination of the individual doesn't necessarily matter. That's not to say the individual isn't important. It's perfectly possible if Reardon doesn't invent product X that no one else would. But product X serves to fulfill a demand that already exists or is perceived by Reardon to exist. Which means it is to some degree evident, and likely not only to one person. Nor is there likely only one solution to meet that demand. The fact is the myriad of nonspecific inputs available, and which are to greater and lesser degrees substitutable for one another, means there's an infinite array of production structures we might pursue.

    To apply this then to say Galt's perpetual motion machine, in the real world like you mention energy is a constant need. Individual X may meet that need one day by figuring out cold fusion. Individual Y may meet it with hot fusion. Individual Z may make a much better solar collector. But do you honestly think X, Y, and Z are the only people who see the potential and are pursuing those avenues? Who invented the phone, Bell or Meuci? If there truly is a demand for something the chances that one person and only one is tryng to meet it are near zero. However one person will in the end be remembered as the first to the gate. For that they deserve the profits they get, but in the end the demand was there and so were the various ideas about how to meet it, so it was only a matter of time.

    Another example is the fact that 1% of New Yorkers pay 50% of the city's taxes. Tell me those 40,000 individuals aren't holding up that city.
    Since the government can only consume by submitting to such a high rate of taxation they are keeping that money out of productive pursuits and ensuring society takes a net loss in actuality. They're holding up the government, not necessarily the city. There is a distinct difference.

    I've never read anything about Rockefeller taking government grants. Even if he did however, government handouts were not what made him successful. It was using innovative business model to globalize the oil market and compete internationally.
    I'm sure the free land rights made a difference.

    I only blame government for giving money to private companies. They control the money, so they're responsible. How can you blame an entity for taking money whose sole purpose is to make money.
    Because by taking money they are using the government to gain an advantage the market otherwise would not have given them. This means they get to buy resources they otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford, and that means those resources are being pulled away from what the market had determined as higher valued ends. What this means in the end is that the actual demand, what people actually want, and the structure of production necessary to meet that demand, are being ignored in favor of political interests that will distort that structure to their own ends for as long as possible. When it becomes clear that the demand is not there to support their operations you get a recession and things have to readjust. Whether by inflation or direct redistribution of wealth it's a bad idea. And the businessman who takes advantage of that bad idea is basically saying, "**** all of society and their well being, I'm superior and should say where this money should go..." Until of course society gets back at his ass through the recession, at which point he doesn't just ask but begs for more money like the car companies are doing right now.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Why not rob someone? Well, the most obvious reason is that you will most likely get caught and spend the next 20 years in prison. That's not greedy, that's stupid.

    I'd compare Maddoff, Enron, and Stanford to the guy robbing someone. Its not good business. One stands to gain the most long term by keeping both parties in a given transaction happy.

    Enlightened self-interest is being as greedy as possible without infringing on other people's rights to do the same thing. Its the American way.

    The only people who get caught stealing are the people who are small enough to fall under the law.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    The only people who get caught stealing are the people who are small enough to fall under the law.
    The examples I gave were Enron, Madoff, Stanford.....I guess those are the little fish?

    Maddoff embezzled 50 BILLION? That's more than the country is spending on infrastructure in the stimulus.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    The examples I gave were Enron, Madoff, Stanford.....I guess those are the little fish?

    Maddoff embezzled 50 BILLION? That's more than the country is spending on infrastructure in the stimulus.
    Yeah im thinkin the central bankers and FED. Im thinkin drug companies and Monsanto. Many break the law but only the blatantly reckless or elite are exempt. Let us not forget the challenging issue of incorporating ethics and profit to viable buisnesses. Many profit in very unethical ways with a "its not my problem attitude". This "enlightened self interest" perpetuates self motivated profits that will forever enslave many and have us fighting over this globe as it becomes less and less able to support us.
    The environment is one thing but all signs point towards major death of the lower classes due to this.

    The moral ground work that makes a free market work well seems to be eroding.

  7. If you have any faith in your .GOV you're lost man oh man. The government is basically raping your childs future for todays wealth of the greedy and "I ain't give a f*ck" politician.

    It's all conspiracy theory ......until it happens to you!

    Bilderberg Group
    Trilateral Commission
    Council on foreign relations
    Infowars
    Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum

    Read, Watch, Learn....take action!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    Yeah im thinkin the central bankers and FED. Im thinkin drug companies and Monsanto. Many break the law but only the blatantly reckless or elite are exempt. Let us not forget the challenging issue of incorporating ethics and profit to viable buisnesses. Many profit in very unethical ways with a "its not my problem attitude". This "enlightened self interest" perpetuates self motivated profits that will forever enslave many and have us fighting over this globe as it becomes less and less able to support us.
    The environment is one thing but all signs point towards major death of the lower classes due to this.


    The moral ground work that makes a free market work well seems to be eroding.
    Prior to turning the US into a welfare state through entitlement programs, the social mobility in the US was dramatically higher than it is today. The GOVERNMENT through their "social programs", not free market economics has effectively enslaved and disenfranchised the poor.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Prior to turning the US into a welfare state through entitlement programs, the social mobility in the US was dramatically higher than it is today. The GOVERNMENT through their "social programs", not free market economics has effectively enslaved and disenfranchised the poor.
    I mostly agree, as well with the current bailout BS the people are being robbed. Now consider who is benefitting from this and who is pulling the strings behind this current debauchery.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    I mostly agree, as well with the current bailout BS the people are being robbed. Now consider who is benefitting from this and who is pulling the strings behind this current debauchery.
    The "people" aren't being robbed simply because that money will never be paid back at full value. Its the fiat currency shell game.

    The banks are not the beneficiaries of the bailouts. Losing control and enlisting your corporation as a government entity is not something I'd like to undertake. The government gets to print and borrow massive amounts of capital in order to bailout banks who also have no capital. Its like Enron paying off your credit card debt.

    You give the "men behind the scenes" way too much credit. Who will benefit from all this in the long run? Nobody ultimately. We're entering a prolonged depression that will last multiple years. When the Chinese cut us off, this country's economic system will self destruct.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    The "people" aren't being robbed simply because that money will never be paid back at full value. Its the fiat currency shell game.

    The banks are not the beneficiaries of the bailouts. Losing control and enlisting your corporation as a government entity is not something I'd like to undertake. The government gets to print and borrow massive amounts of capital in order to bailout banks who also have no capital. Its like Enron paying off your credit card debt.

    You give the "men behind the scenes" way too much credit. Who will benefit from all this in the long run? Nobody ultimately. We're entering a prolonged depression that will last multiple years. When the Chinese cut us off, this country's economic system will self destruct.
    Ultimately rob who cares about having lots of money when your rich beyond measure what the real genius of it all will be is the control the government will have over the people. When things hit the low point people will agree to things they, in their right minds, would have never otherwise agreed to. THis will happen globally potentially in different extremes a power free for all. I guess noone is really being robbed its more like creative diversion tactics.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Wtf - The Amero ???
    By anabolicrhino in forum Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 10:28 AM
Log in
Log in