White Guilt Is Dead

[Omen]

First thing. If you look at a network like BET, it perpetrates that image of inner-city thug life. And secondly, the attempted genocide of a whole religion collectively and the placement of those people in death camps is much more horrible than a situation where tribesman/woman who had small societies that weren't on par with what was then modern standards of socio-scientific development, were captured by people of enemy tribes or foreigners and sold off which would ultimately give their descendants a chance to not get eaten by jaguars, lions, or have to live in a third world country.

If you read my post above, you'll see that I think it's 100% fine for people to be racist, even against my race, I have no problem with it, to each his own.

The above, is to break in, assault and kidnap people and families from their homes, from their loved ones, from what they know, taken to be slaves and that's better?

Only good thing about that is if they escape, rape everyone who contributed to their capture and enslavement and then kill them...I know I would....What if I kidnap you because I think your life is bad and take you somewhere I think is better? would you like that?

Let's not forget, most people are not enslaved because their masters thought "Oh, look at those poor people, I want to help them......let's kidnap them! "..........yeah....I'm sure that's what they were thinking, not free labor......

Plus, on a scientific side, studies show that primitive hunter gatherer societies are happier, have more leisure time, face less stress, live healthier lives and without environmental stress, they can easily live longer than domesticated corn fed humans.

And sh*t, you're talking about death by a f**king lion, like it's bad?

How bad is having rape, murder, robberies, gonoreha, syphilis, AIDS, DUIs, Car accidents, fires, slave economy, marriage problems, health problems caused by advancements, flesh eating bugs, addiction, pollution, prisons, wars, etc... etc...etc....etc.....

What makes you think that they would be happier just because you think you like the place you're at now? maybe they hated the white man's world, ever think of that?

Probably the worst post I have seen on AM so far.........

[RobInKuwait]

First thing. If you look at a network like BET, it perpetrates that image of inner-city thug life. And secondly, the attempted genocide of a whole religion collectively and the placement of those people in death camps is much more horrible than a situation where tribesman/woman who had small societies that weren't on par with what was then modern standards of socio-scientific development, were captured by people of enemy tribes or foreigners and sold off which would ultimately give their descendants a chance to not get eaten by jaguars, lions, or have to live in a third world country.

I agree that the merciless Nazi treatment of Jews before and during World War II dwarfs the American and European treatment of African slaves. There is no human act comparable in size and scope to the Nazi treatment of the Jews, outside of perhaps ethnic cleansing in Rwanda.

However, as others have said, superior technological and sociological advances are no justification for slavery. I feel that any rational moral justification for slavery is intellectually dishonest.

That being said, many of the cultures in Africa where slaves came from engaged in slavery often with barbaric treatment toward their slaves. The slaves did not come from peaceful societies and essentially the same fate could of befell many of them even if they were not abducted by Europeans. Again this is not a justification for the treatment the slaves received, just the reality of the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries.

[rubberring]

First thing. If you look at a network like BET, it perpetrates that image of inner-city thug life. And secondly, the attempted genocide of a whole religion collectively and the placement of those people in death camps is much more horrible than a situation where tribesman/woman who had small societies that weren't on par with what was then modern standards of socio-scientific development, were captured by people of enemy tribes or foreigners and sold off which would ultimately give their descendants a chance to not get eaten by jaguars, lions, or have to live in a third world country.

Now, that's phrase-abuse.

[MrTexas1982]

I agree that the merciless Nazi treatment of Jews before and during World War II dwarfs the American and European treatment of African slaves. There is no human act comparable in size and scope to the Nazi treatment of the Jews, outside of perhaps ethnic cleansing in Rwanda.

However, as others have said, superior technological and sociological advances are no justification for slavery. I feel that any rational moral justification for slavery is intellectually dishonest.

That being said, many of the cultures in Africa where slaves came from engaged in slavery often with barbaric treatment toward their slaves. The slaves did not come from peaceful societies and essentially the same fate could of befell many of them even if they were not abducted by Europeans. Again this is not a justification for the treatment the slaves received, just the reality of the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Wait a minute, so your saying your justification for the treatment the slaves received, isn't really a justification, because your justified in saying it based on the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries? So would i be justified in saying that the only reason you made this statement was to justify the treatment of slaves?

[Mulletsoldier]

First thing. If you look at a network like BET, it perpetrates that image of inner-city thug life. And secondly, the attempted genocide of a whole religion collectively and the placement of those people in death camps is much more horrible than a situation where tribesman/woman who had small societies that weren't on par with what was then modern standards of socio-scientific development, were captured by people of enemy tribes or foreigners and sold off which would ultimately give their descendants a chance to not get eaten by jaguars, lions, or have to live in a third world country.

This is by far and away the fucking stupidest, and most blatantly ignorant, post I have ever read on www.anabolicminds.com.

[Omen]

Wait a minute, so your saying your justification for the treatment the slaves received, isn't really a justification, because your justified in saying it based on the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries? So would i be justified in saying that the only reason you made this statement was to justify the treatment of slaves?

WTF....he CLEARLY said it was not justification....

Arabs, Egyptians, Frenchies, English, etc.... all had slaves before Americans ever did........some before America was even a thought.

He's just stating a fact, that they did not come from the garden of eden, some of them were in hell to be taken and again put in more hell.

Something like that Rob?

[MrTexas1982]

I agree that the merciless Nazi treatment of Jews before and during World War II dwarfs the American and European treatment of African slaves. There is no human act comparable in size and scope to the Nazi treatment of the Jews, outside of perhaps ethnic cleansing in Rwanda.

.

Where did the need for comparison come into play at here. That's about as stupid as Jeffrey Dahmer saying "Yeah I killed 15 people, but Ted Bundy killed 35, so go light on my sentence".

[Mulletsoldier]

That being said, many of the cultures in Africa where slaves came from engaged in slavery often with barbaric treatment toward their slaves. The slaves did not come from peaceful societies and essentially the same fate could of befell many of them even if they were not abducted by Europeans. Again this is not a justification for the treatment the slaves received, just the reality of the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Have you heard of the Tu quoque Fallacy?

In no way do your premises here correlate to the conclusion of the slavery in question. I.e., it is a fallacy.

Oh, as well, the attrition rates for North American Indigene are estimated to be somewhere in the area of 80-95% (depending on whom you listen to); this rate of attrition actually does outpace the relative scope of Nazi Germany.

[MrTexas1982]

WTF....he CLEARLY said it was not justification....

Arabs, Egyptians, Frenchies, English, etc.... all had slaves before Americans ever did........some before America was even a thought.

He's just stating a fact, that they did not come from the garden of eden, some of them were in hell to be taken and again put in more hell.

Something like that Rob?

Yeah, thats why he said it wasn't justification, because he knew before he said it that it was.

[RobInKuwait]

Wait a minute, so your saying your justification for the treatment the slaves received, isn't really a justification, because your justified in saying it based on the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries? So would i be justified in saying that the only reason you made this statement was to justify the treatment of slaves?

Wow, read what I said:

The slaves did not come from peaceful societies and essentially the same fate could of befell many of them even if they were not abducted by Europeans. Again this is not a justification for the treatment the slaves received, just the reality of the situation in West Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries.

As I said enslaving another human being can never be justified on a rational moral level.

The statement I made was to highlight that in many societies in West Africa, slavery was a way of life prior to the Europeans coming. We can inject our modern day sensibilities back 400 years ago all we want, but the fact is that slavery was not seen with the same repugnance then as it is today.

[MrTexas1982]

Wow, read what I said:



As I said enslaving another human being can never be justified on a rational moral level.

The statement I made was to highlight that in many societies in West Africa, slavery was a way of life prior to the Europeans coming. We can inject our modern day sensibilities back 400 years ago all we want, but the fact is that slavery was not seen with the same repugnance then as it is today.

Speaking from the view point of the Master or the Slave?

[Omen]

Speaking from the view point of the Master or the Slave?

The master. I did not live 400 years, nor do I know much about that time frame, but from what I know, you could be a "good moral" person and have slaves back then.

Just like in some societies till this day you're a good moral person if you bury a woman in the ground till only her head is showing and stone her head till she's dead if she's SUSPECTED of adultery.

I think you're mistaking facts he's stating for opinion, the above is a fact I'm stating, same people who think women who have tattoos are whores, do I agree with that? NO

Is it fact? Yes.

[RobInKuwait]

Have you heard of the Tu quoque Fallacy?

No, based on the context I'm guessing its saying one thing and writing a disclaimer that that is not what you are saying?

In no way do your premises here correlate to the conclusion of the slavery in question. I.e., it is a fallacy.

Oh, as well, the attrition rates for North American Indigene are estimated to be somewhere in the area of 80-95% (depending on whom you listen to); this rate of attrition actually does outpace the relative scope of Nazi Germany.

Insofar as end result that's true. While its true much of that was intentional, the size and scope of the smallpox epidemics were not intentional. I would most definitely not call that a unified effort. You could not say that Cortez and Custer worked together to achieve a common goal.

Nazi Germany was a deliberate intentional act of ethnic extermination on a large scale, as was Rwanda.

[RobInKuwait]

Speaking from the view point of the Master or the Slave?

Either one.

[RobInKuwait]

Where did the need for comparison come into play at here. That's about as stupid as Jeffrey Dahmer saying "Yeah I killed 15 people, but Ted Bundy killed 35, so go light on my sentence".

Somebody stated previously that African Americans were treated worse than any race in history. Thomas Rivera disagreed, specifically mentioning the holocaust, and I concurred.

[Omen]

Either one.

LOL Yeah right

I bet slaves back then were "Ahhh it's kool, these are good people, they just have us as slaves..."

And ONLY now it would be "WTF....f**k those people, I'm going to f**king murder them all when I get the chance to"

I'm guessing the attitude of the master is the only one that would change, unless you're into some freaky D/S sexual fantasies, it's never seen as ok to be a slave.

[MrTexas1982]

Somebody stated previously that African Americans were treated worse than any race in history. Thomas Rivera disagreed, specifically mentioning the holocaust, and I concurred.

How about the history of America, since this thread is specifically speaking of events that happened in America?

[RobInKuwait]

LOL Yeah right

I bet slaves back then were "Ahhh it's kool, these are good people, they just have us as slaves..."

And ONLY now it would be "WTF....f**k those people, I'm going to f**king murder them all when I get the chance to"

I'm guessing the attitude of the master is the only one that would change, unless you're into some freaky D/S sexual fantasies, it's never seen as ok to be a slave.

Obviously I can't speak for any or all people during that time.

However, the West Africans responded to slavery much more favorably than how the Native Americans responded to slavery. I wouldn't say they enjoyed it, but I'd speculate the fact that they had seen slavery in their lifetime and it was not an alien concept allowed them to adjust to it. Slavery was not common in most Native American cultures (with some exceptions), so it was a much rougher transition, and contributed to the high death rate among indigenous Carribean slaves.

I've also heard several other different lines of thinking about why West Africans responded to slavery better than Native Americans, but the fact that slavery existed in Africa previously and not in most North American cultures certainly makes this a plausible explanation.

[MrTexas1982]

Either one.

Now I finally understand the thought process behind the rest of your political viewpoints.

[RobInKuwait]

How about the history of America, since this thread is specifically speaking of events that happened in America?

Do you mean the worst treated minority in the history of America? You really think African-Americans beat out Native Americans?