President Obama

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    You are correct mullet.

    What's new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    Oh yeah. Im gloating and rubbing it in.............

    Obama/Biden is/was the better ticket. End of story.

    The American people spoke.

    Landslide baby.

    lol

    Oh yeah, the Dems have the house and senate too........................lol
    Everyone keeps saying landslide. It wasn't a landslide by popular vote. It just looks that way due to the electoral votes. Roughly 59 million votes to Obama, and 55 million to McCain. How is that a landslide?

    I'm not denying that the American people spoke. They chose Obama. I'm hopeful that he is able to unify the country and point us in the right direction. It's a historic moment for many reasons. The least of which is that America, in one day, has become the gleaming bastion of hope, change, and dreams to the rest of the world again. We've tossed aside the barriers of faith, creed, and color and elected the first African-American president.

    Kristofer68SS, you're posts sound immature. It comes across that like you are gloating whether you are attempting to or not. It's really not a big surprise to anyone that the Obama won, that the Democrats gained a few more seats in the House and Senate. It was expected. They still don't have the number's they need to filibuster the Senate, so they will still need bipartisan support. The republican's screwed up over the past 8 years, so it is only logical that the American public would replace them with the only other choice...the Democrats. So I say again, what is the point of your posts?

    Mullet. I'd take a step back and give it some time. This is no different than two rival football teams. There is going to be disappointment and bitterness from the losing "team" and douchebags who choose to gloat from the winning "team". It makes them feel better about their insubstantial existence. I believe that a few weeks down the road you will see this subside and a more united America will arise in the beginning of 2009.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Everyone keeps saying landslide. It wasn't a landslide by popular vote. It just looks that way due to the electoral votes. Roughly 59 million votes to Obama, and 55 million to McCain. How is that a landslide?

    I'm not denying that the American people spoke. They chose Obama. I'm hopeful that he is able to unify the country and point us in the right direction. It's a historic moment for many reasons. The least of which is that America, in one day, has become the gleaming bastion of hope, change, and dreams to the rest of the world again. We've tossed aside the barriers of faith, creed, and color and elected the first African-American president.

    Kristofer68SS, you're posts sound immature. It comes across that like you are gloating whether you are attempting to or not. It's really not a big surprise to anyone that the Obama won, that the Democrats gained a few more seats in the House and Senate. It was expected. They still don't have the number's they need to filibuster the Senate, so they will still need bipartisan support. The republican's screwed up over the past 8 years, so it is only logical that the American public would replace them with the only other choice...the Democrats. So I say again, what is the point of your posts?

    Mullet. I'd take a step back and give it some time. This is no different than two rival football teams. There is going to be disappointment and bitterness from the losing "team" and douchebags who choose to gloat from the winning "team". It makes them feel better about their insubstantial existence. I believe that a few weeks down the road you will see this subside and a more united America will arise in the beginning of 2009.

    im a simple man. I dont need all the fancy words or long paragraphs. However i will get my point across.

    Popular vote doesnt mean squat. Ask 2000 Gore. He won it.

    Electorally, McCain got hit handed to him.

    349 to 173 are the latest numbers i have.

    Yeah, thats close.

    NOT.

    im out.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Objectively claiming what a President-Elect will or will not do, several hours into his burgeoning presidency, is plain silly. How does that adage play out, "The best laid plans of mice and men"? The Democrats did not get 60 seats needed to break a filibuster, and Obama will need bi-partisan support to mend deep wounds created by bully-tactic foreign policy; he will need tact, class, and timing derived from both sides of the aisle to navigate an economic market which frightens those wearing both red and blue and; he will need to carry a soft and thoughtful touch when dealing with a collective American psyche which is bruised and battered as of now. If he is as intelligent and controlled as he labors every moment to appear, he will not undertake such uni-lateral, such close-minded, and such unrepresentative positions and tactics as occurred in these last eight years. To state unequivocally what actions will be carried out in the coming months and years is shamefully short-sighted, and in this early stage overwhelmed by personal biases - on both sides of the fence. Time, and not us amateur political pundits, will determine the consequences of this election.
    I was correcting a common misconception about Obama's platform. Its a shame that McCain did not bring up the real facts about the "Obama tax cuts" at the debates.

    I'm all for Obama leading us to a new age of peace, happiness and economic prosperity. Hell, its not like I have a choice anymore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS View Post
    im a simple man. I dont need all the fancy words or long paragraphs. However i will get my point across.

    Popular vote doesnt mean squat. Ask 2000 Gore. He won it.

    Electorally, McCain got hit handed to him.

    349 to 173 are the latest numbers i have.

    Yeah, thats close.

    NOT.

    im out.
    You're missing the point. You can't just look at electoral votes and declare a landslide. The majority of the swing states were close. So if Obama win's a state by 10 votes, he still gets all the electoral votes. But would you call a 10 vote win a landslide? No.

    It doesn't matter. Obama won, end of story. I'm just tired of everyone saying McCain wasn't even close. It was closer than most expected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    I highly doubt all you republicans whining about increased taxes are making the amount of money where you would get increased taxes. Are you all really making like over 150K?? cause if you are quit your whining. You really dont have much to worry about. You think its fair for you to be making that much when there are people who have lost their homes and are living in tents and on the street? oh and you may say
    I'm not a republican, but I believe in minimal taxes. Will Obamas tax plan raise my taxes? Not until 2010. But it's about much, much more than me. What most democrats don't realize is that the wealthy run the country, and FOR A GOOD REASON! The wealthy have everything invested in this country, the middle class has nothing. Who cares most about the performance of the economy? The wealthy. Who has the most to lose if the economy doesn't performe? The wealthy. Who is responsible for all economic growth, increased job opportunities and increases in GDP? The wealthy. The middle class do NOTHING but consume and go to work. A centralized power of wealth is not only a good thing but necessary for our brand of capitalism to survive. What do you think would happen if the middle class held a majority of the wealth and there fore made all major economic and investment decisions? That's right, everything would go to ****. The people with the most to lose are always the best for the job.

    Besides, if you knew ANYTHING about ANYTHING you would realize that those making under 50k in 2010 will be paying 1500 more in taxes and those making over 50k will pay 3500 more. No new taxes, huh? Let's not forget that Obama will also decrease the child credit to under 500 dollars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    ...

    It doesn't matter. Obama won, end of story. I'm just tired of everyone saying McCain wasn't even close. It was closer than most expected.
    I think it was, in fact, wider than most expected!
    Electoral votes: Obama 338 vs McCain 163.
    Popular vote: Obama 62.9 million vs McCain 55.8 million.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    From an outsider's perspective, it is disappointing to see the amount of cynicism, and skepticism, and and doubt on one hand; and the amount of revelry, and gloating, and arrogance on the other. In this, an historic moment, I find it disconcerting that at a time in your country's history where unity and tact is a necessity, you all choose to squabble and bicker yet again. Republicans need to push their cynicism and doubt aside for a moment and embrace the reaching power of the desire and capacity for change - both politically and culturally and; the Democrats need to step forward with cautious humility and an ability to cast aside the resentment of the past eight years. If this new government decides to conduct itself along the same lines of this thread, we are all fucked; Americans and others alike.
    Its not anything like cynicism and doubt.

















    We Republicans are just Obama Non-Responders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Packenwood View Post
    Its not anything like cynicism and doubt.

    We Republicans are just Obama Non-Responders.
    Oh, okay, I think I grasped what you did here! See, you took your completely unrelated opinion on USP Labs, and then made a comical reference to my comments! Great, great joke. And, the funniest part about the joke is that I say that all the time! Fantastic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Packenwood View Post
    Its not anything like cynicism and doubt.

















    We Republicans are just Obama Non-Responders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Packenwood View Post
    Its not anything like cynicism and doubt.
    ...

    We Republicans are just Obama Non-Responders.
    There will always be (acute) non-responders. And that is fine, as long as they remain in the minority!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I think it was, in fact, wider than most expected!
    Electoral votes: Obama 338 vs McCain 163.
    Popular vote: Obama 62.9 million vs McCain 55.8 million.
    the popular vote was much closer than i expected, closer than the polls suggested, and closer 90% of the elections in the last 60 years....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    And that's grand. But they chose to donate money to those less fortunate and are better people because of that. They weren't mandated (i.e. forced for those that are slow) to do so. I don't know about you, but the more money I make the more willing I am to donate to charities to help others. But when times get tough, and I have to scrimp and save that's the last thing on my mind.

    I'm reserving my judgement of our new president. I admit, I voted against him. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over the next year and see what he pushes, policy wise. In fact, I wish him the best of luck because I hope he can turn around the economy and become a great president. I really honestly hope the best for him, because if he turns out to be a wonderful president, my lot in life improves. Selfish, but honest.

    But if he tells me that it's my patriotic duty to help those less fortunate and takes more of my money, I'll be pissed. Because I've seen where that money goes. Macon, GA has one of the largest areas of government subsidized housing in the United States. Guess what I saw. Escalade's with 22 inch rims sitting in the driveway of a house that the government is paying for. Four to five gentlemen sitting on the front stoop wearing nice new basketball jersey's and gold chains. And women in the welfare line with three children by three different men, but she doesn't care because each kid she pops out means a bigger welfare check. I've watched that same woman then take her welfare check to the counter, cash it and use half of it on lottery tickets and booze with her three kids running around like future convicts beating each other up.

    Now I understand that it's a cultural thing and I have nothing against it what-so-ever. But my tax dollars are being spent so they can afford housing. Yet somehow, they are able to afford all those things? I went to college, got a degree in chemical engineering, and I make more money than the majority of American's at the ripe old age of 24. I can't afford an Escalade, or gold jewelry, or a bunch of throw-back jersey's without having nothing left. Yet that is where my tax money is going.

    Don't get me wrong, there are people being helped by government money (my tax money) that deserve it. But do you really honestly believe, the government is the be all end all? Don't you think you'd rather portion out your money to charities of your choice, that you trust? Because I can't study welfare and decide whom my tax money goes to...but I can study Non-profit organizations that will use my money to better people's lives who ACTUALLY need it.

    People are by nature selfish. If I make a bunch of money, it is not my responsibility to give that money to other people who need it. It is my right to decide what I do with my money. If I choose to be Ghandi and give it all away, so be it. But why is it my responsibility to take care of someone who decided to not finish high school, let alone college and lives on welfare? I didn't cause them to be in there current situation. I owe them nothing. Was I fortunate enough to have parents who were financially sound? Yes. My father is excellent with money and has sacrificed a lot to move up to where he makes plenty of money. It is his goal to leave his children and grandchildren better off than he was. Because believe it or not he came from a family just getting by in a rural town in northwestern PA. So he worked his ass off. Now tell me why it is his responsibility to not only guarantee his children's future, but also pay a high percentage of his income as taxes so that those "less fortunate" can have more. You can't, because it's not his responsibility.

    The majority of those on welfare aren't there because circumstances kept them down. It's because they don't want to put in the effort. Because you'll find the majority of people do just enough to get by. And a small minority go above and beyond because they are driven and motivated. Yet when the reach the height of their success, and achieve the fruits of their labor. Someone in government tells them that "Sure, it's great that you've started a new business and employed dozens of other citizens. But...well since you've become successful we need to take more of your money so that we can give it to a bunch of lazy sons of *****es because "circumstances" have placed them in a place of poverty. In fact we're sure it was "circumstances" and not a lack of drive to better themselves or their families".

    **** that. That's the bull**** our government spews to the masses. I hope against all reason that Obama decides to play the middle ground and doesn't increase welfare and/or taxes. Because putting more money in a broken system doesn't solve anything.

    /rant

    Great post LG, as I also find it difficult to believe that people would vote for someone promising increased spending and taxes.

    But the DFL won this race by keeping it a battle between the evil Bush and the hero Obama, had this race simply come down to READING EACH POLITICAL PARTIES PLATFORM and making a decision based on that, I think the results would have come out differently.

    All of the major news networks got people to believe that Bush and the Republicans "ruined" the economy by spouting tag lines about the housing crisis and national debt etc...without ever giving ANY evidence as to how it was purely a Republican error, the media never mentioned who has been in charge of the the house and senate during the last 2 years(and when did the economy get really bad?) and no one seems to care.

    It was during the Clinton era that Fannie and Freddie started making loans easier to get, but did the media blame Democrats? No.

    Or how about the Dot Com bubble burst, Enron and Worldcom, which led to $5 Trillion in losses? Surely it was the Democrats letting Wall Street run wild that caused that? It wasnt. And Republicans (myself included) dont try to pin that soley on Liberal policies, I understand it is more complicated than simply saying XY or Z "screwed up" the economy, vote for the other guy.

    But in my opinion, bamboozling the average voter, who gets very little news, into believing the economic problems rest entirely on the shoulders of Republicans, and that a vote for McCain is really a vote for McBush is what won them this election.

    And if you believe that, I dont think you are dumb, I think you made the best choice you could based on the information provided by the most heavily funded, media-biased campaign in American history: How else could we have video of a woman saying, "Now I dont have to worry about putting gas in my car and paying my mortgage."?
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    BTW, I'm not hatin' on Obama, I think this morning the guy is thinking to himself "Oh sh!t, I won this.....what did I promise everyone?" And is getting humbled.

    I hope he does well, and if he doesnt? I get to B!tch like a Liberal for 4 years!

    And when Obama doesnt bring all the "change" he promised, I believe many people will realize they were expecting way too much out of a president, not understanding the limitations of the job, hopefully educating more people in future elections. i.e. When America looks pretty much the same after 4 years of the young black guy with the "funny name" in charge as it has with all the crusty old racist white guys, who are you gonna blame?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    I think it was, in fact, wider than most expected!
    Electoral votes: Obama 338 vs McCain 163.
    Popular vote: Obama 62.9 million vs McCain 55.8 million.
    Here's the most indicative number of this election.

    Money spent per vote:
    Obama- $10.17
    McCain- $6.54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Here's the most indicative number of this election.

    Money spent per vote:
    Obama- $10.17
    McCain- $6.54
    No, here are the most indicative numbers:

    Average donation:
    Obama - $68 - $80 (depending on source)
    McCain - $150 - $350 (depending on source)

    Obama ran a smart campaign which garnered massive amounts of ground-level support; the complete divergence of donation averages speaks to this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Here's the most indicative number of this election.

    Money spent per vote:
    Obama- $10.17
    McCain- $6.54
    First of all, I do not know why those numbers are the most indicative of the election, even without questioning their source and derivation. Second, they probably reveal the candidates' abilities to mobilize and attract sustained financial support. Thirdly, the Obama campaign was known to have been less generous in term of financial compensation of campaign officials and managers. The funds were focused more productively elsewhere. Finally, one could argue that the Obama campaign helped in a more significant manner to boost certain elements of aggregate demand in the USA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    I highly doubt all you republicans whining about increased taxes are making the amount of money where you would get increased taxes. Are you all really making like over 150K?? cause if you are quit your whining. You really dont have much to worry about. You think its fair for you to be making that much when there are people who have lost their homes and are living in tents and on the street? oh and you may say

    "well I worked hard for what I have so **** everyone else"
    Fair? You're kidding me? Those who a just a bit better off should just give some of ours away? That is called a charitable contribution when I do it willingly. When it is imposed by the government it is called Socialism.

    But Im sure you've all had a help up along the way. Whether it was growing up in a family that was financially comfortable, got scholarships, got hooked up with a job by somebody you knew or whatever. We dont all start out at the same level on the same playing field. Where you end usually depends a lot on where you start. I just don't think that If I am fortunate and benefitted because of what family I was born into or how much money my parents had or who I knew that I have any more right to live in a house than any other person. You all piss me off.
    What? Get back to me in 20 years if and or when you have busted your ass to support yourself and your family to make a life for yourself and children and your government wants to take some of it to give to someone else simply because they are not as well off as you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    And don't give me that "when you get some money you'll become a republican" Bull$h!t either. My grandparents were multi millionaires and were some of the biggest democrats Ive ever known. They gave away a **** ton of money to those less fortunate than them so that argument is a fallacy.
    That is very generous of them. It is called being charitable. If they were forced to do so it would be a different thing all together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandajoint View Post
    not only do i agree with your statement, you have probably the best avatar on this entire board.
    After you invest 4 years in college to get your BS and then another 3 to 4 years to get your MS in Engineering and land that job making $120k per year I want some of it. As a matter of fact I'm going to have my government take it from you. After another 15 years of busting your ass in the filed and you are a manager making $200k I want some more of it.

    It's not fair that YOU got to bust YOUR ass all of YOUR life for ME to get nothing for it...give ME what's OURS!!!
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    small business is going to pay and so are we


    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    I highly doubt all you republicans whining about increased taxes are making the amount of money where you would get increased taxes. Are you all really making like over 150K?? cause if you are quit your whining. You really dont have much to worry about. You think its fair for you to be making that much when there are people who have lost their homes and are living in tents and on the street? oh and you may say

    "well I worked hard for what I have so **** everyone else"

    But Im sure you've all had a help up along the way. Whether it was growing up in a family that was financially comfortable, got scholarships, got hooked up with a job by somebody you knew or whatever. We dont all start out at the same level on the same playing field. Where you end usually depends a lot on where you start. I just don't think that If I am fortunate and benefitted because of what family I was born into or how much money my parents had or who I knew that I have any more right to live in a house than any other person. You all piss me off.

    I agree with those people worried about the tax increases and I am one that will actually benefit from his supposed tax cuts for the middle class. The reason I agree in this area is that his tax increases are going to hurt a lot of small businesses which is what this country was and is still built upon. My parents own a small business and even though they "GROSS" over 250 k they are in no way pulling that in. Obama is not considering the higher costs that business owners are now paying and how their overhead has grown leaps and bounds.

    All of those people that are banking on receiving some tax cut because they make less than 250, 200, or 150k depending on which democrat is talking at the time, are not considering the cause and effect of the small business industry. Prices are going to go up across the board for our everyday items, and jobs are going to be lost because these businesses already are having a hard time and increasing taxes on them or forcing health care on them is only going to hurt them that much more.
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    They just interviewed this chick on TV at a gas station. And her response to how she felt about Obama winning the presidency is below...

    "I'm really happy he won, because now I don't have to worry about my car payment or my other bills because he's gonna help me out."

    Are you kidding me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, here are the most indicative numbers:

    Average donation:
    Obama - $68 - $80 (depending on source)
    McCain - $150 - $350 (depending on source)

    Obama ran a smart campaign which garnered massive amounts of ground-level support; the complete divergence of donation averages speaks to this.
    there is still a lingering question of legitimacy of those donations of Obamas, particularly the actual number of donors. Having collected much of it as internet donations with NO error or other checking, and no reporting requirements for donations under $200 the possibility for individuals to have made multiple donations of smaller amounts is quite real. Among the names used for donations in that under $200 are included Jesus Christ and Mickey Mouse (by people who actually made donations under those names).

    The worst piece of the money portion of it is that it has killed public financing for elections in the US, and if this whole cycle (including primaries) was a $2 billion cycle, you can bet that next time will be a 3 or 4 billion cycle....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    From an outsider's perspective, it is disappointing to see the amount of cynicism, and skepticism, and and doubt on one hand; and the amount of revelry, and gloating, and arrogance on the other. In this, an historic moment, I find it disconcerting that at a time in your country's history where unity and tact is a necessity, you all choose to squabble and bicker yet again. Republicans need to push their cynicism and doubt aside for a moment and embrace the reaching power of the desire and capacity for change - both politically and culturally and; the Democrats need to step forward with cautious humility and an ability to cast aside the resentment of the past eight years. If this new government decides to conduct itself along the same lines of this thread, we are all fucked; Americans and others alike.
    Yes, this country has just made some history on the grandest scale. To have a black man even run for office was unfathomable let alone conceivable 50 years ago. Then to have him win is groundbreaking. Then you add in the female candidate it is even more tremendous.

    Obama may or may not be as bad as his history shows and that is to be seen. To give him an automatic approval simply because he is not a Republic is foolish. Everyone is responsible for the mess this country is in while Bush was in office...Democrat and Republican alike.

    My biggest issue is with the mentality that this new, young voter class, and even the older voters have about how the well off should be taxed more so the less off can get theirs. That is bull****. This is a land of equal opportunity and equal obstacles for all people.

    To take away from the successful to give to those who are not is wrong, period...and I'm saying this and don't make anyway near $150k a year. I earned what I have as little as it may be. I could not and would not want a hand out from my brother (literally) who makes 3 times my income just because I make less. That is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicTib View Post
    All of those people that are banking on receiving some tax cut because they make less than 250, 200, or 150k depending on which democrat is talking at the time, are not considering the cause and effect of the small business industry. Prices are going to go up across the board for our everyday items, and jobs are going to be lost because these businesses already are having a hard time and increasing taxes on them or forcing health care on them is only going to hurt them that much more.
    that has been the issue all along - those people in those income ranges as well as corporations aren't going to just say "gee I guess I have 3-10% less in my pocket now but i'll spend the same" they are going to either raise their prices if they can, or lower their costs if they can. raising prices affects people who use their services, lowering costs usually means layoffs....
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicTib View Post
    I agree with those people worried about the tax increases and I am one that will actually benefit from his supposed tax cuts for the middle class. The reason I agree in this area is that his tax increases are going to hurt a lot of small businesses which is what this country was and is still built upon. My parents own a small business and even though they "GROSS" over 250 k they are in no way pulling that in. Obama is not considering the higher costs that business owners are now paying and how their overhead has grown leaps and bounds.

    All of those people that are banking on receiving some tax cut because they make less than 250, 200, or 150k depending on which democrat is talking at the time, are not considering the cause and effect of the small business industry. Prices are going to go up across the board for our everyday items, and jobs are going to be lost because these businesses already are having a hard time and increasing taxes on them or forcing health care on them is only going to hurt them that much more.
    The Tax Policy is a little more clear cut than that. In 2010, if you make more than 50k, you will pay more taxes.

    Cutting taxes a little after the Bush tax cuts expire, does not equate to tax cuts.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/...ax_increa.html
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    If Obama raised so much more money than McCain, why didn't he stand by his principles and give 40% of what he bilked people out of to the McCain Train?

    Sounds hypocritical to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, here are the most indicative numbers:

    Average donation:
    Obama - $68 - $80 (depending on source)
    McCain - $150 - $350 (depending on source)

    Obama ran a smart campaign which garnered massive amounts of ground-level support; the complete divergence of donation averages speaks to this.
    Its all speculation at this point as to how much these donations netted Obama, but I will tell you that as recently as yesterday, you could have done this:

    -go to a gas station
    -buy 200 preloaded Visa cards with 100 dollars on each
    -donat each to Obama's campaign under a different fictional name
    -you just donated 20 grand that can't be tracked!

    Obama's website took the preloaded credit cards, McCain's did not. For all we know, half of Obama's donations could have came from foreign nationals (illegal), and the other half could have came from individuals donating over the maximum donation (illegal).

    I'm not saying Obama perpetuated the fraud, but he certainly did not take the very minor steps needed to deter the fraud.
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    Welcome to the black house.
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    but now you make the assumption Rob that there was fraud. Remember, innocent until proven guilty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    but now you make the assumption Rob that there was fraud. Remember, innocent until proven guilty
    I didn't make that assumption. I just said that Obama.com does not have the basic security features in place that McCain.com had to deter illegal donations.

    Also, how would you even go about trying to prove that he was an accessory to that. You could not. This is a way to bypass campaign finance laws.
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    Only assumption I saw was that there was a lack of effort in preventing fraud.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    but now you make the assumption Rob that there was fraud. Remember, innocent until proven guilty
    nobody made that assumption, we merely bring up the possibility which questions the legitimacy of the claims of "massive grassroots support". No address verifications were done, no name validation. you could have entered

    Obama Rocks
    123 Obama Street
    Obama, Il 00000

    as your address for those prepaid cards.... By setting up a system that allows for fraud while knowing and having available the means to block that fraud at NO cost (actually with address verification you have a lower cost in credit card transaction fees) you are complicit in the fraud.
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    keep in mind that by saying that is all ok, you just allow the next republican candidate to do the same....
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    You think its fair for you to be making that much when there are people who have lost their homes and are living in tents and on the street? oh and you may say

    "well I worked hard for what I have so **** everyone else"

    But Im sure you've all had a help up along the way. Whether it was growing up in a family that was financially comfortable, got scholarships, got hooked up with a job by somebody you knew or whatever. We dont all start out at the same level on the same playing field. Where you end usually depends a lot on where you start. I just don't think that If I am fortunate and benefitted because of what family I was born into or how much money my parents had or who I knew that I have any more right to live in a house than any other person. You all piss me off.
    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    And don't give me that "when you get some money you'll become a republican" Bull$h!t either. My grandparents were multi millionaires and were some of the biggest democrats Ive ever known. They gave away a **** ton of money to those less fortunate than them so that argument is a fallacy.
    so when you inherit, you're planning on giving away all your grandparents made to help the less fortunate right? you don't need any of that inheritance, and its unfair to everyone else right?

    when that happens, and you've donated all those millions, and you're broke like those "less fortunate", send us a link of your donations.

    give me a break.
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    I dont disagree that there were little to no verification safeguards in place, however, it still does not mean that fraud took place.

    Also, as you all know, McCain was battling up hill as it was. 3 major reasons:
    1. He was a republican, when it is unpopular to be one, and when you follow W.
    2. He is 72
    3. In line with #2, he offered his VP slot to an unproven 45 year old named Sarah Palin.

    She did not deliver what she was meant to
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    huckabee would have been a much better candidate, even with his extreme biblical views.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    keep in mind that by saying that is all ok, you just allow the next republican candidate to do the same....
    Its just frustrating. McCain was one of the people that fought hardest for campaign finance reform. It was not a popular cause in congress, but he fought for it anyways.

    There's no way he'd even ignore the spirit of the law and find a workaround. Just another reason why McCain is too nice of a guy to run for president.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    huckabee would have been a much better candidate, even with his extreme biblical views.
    I couldnt disagree more. He and Palin together would have been the religious wonder pairing, but most if not all independants would have walked away
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    I dont disagree that there were little to no verification safeguards in place, however, it still does not mean that fraud took place.
    Fraud did take place. The question is how much. I believe it was the LA Times that made a 20 dollar Mickey Mouse donation for an article they wrote.

    Also, as you all know, McCain was battling up hill as it was. 3 major reasons:
    1. He was a republican, when it is unpopular to be one, and when you follow W.
    2. He is 72
    3. In line with #2, he offered his VP slot to an unproven 45 year old named Sarah Palin.

    She did not deliver what she was meant to
    Given all those points, and additionally an unpopular war and a plummeting stock market, this election should not have been anywhere near as close as it was.

    One question you have to ask is, how many dollars equal a point in a battleground state. Obama spent 2 to 1 what McCain spent. If Obama had spent the same amount as McCain, would he have won?
  

  
 

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