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Mark Steyn: Plumber Joe didn't go with the flow

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    Mark Steyn: Plumber Joe didn't go with the flow


    Give a man enough rope line, and he'll hang himself. There was His Serene Majesty President-designate Barack the Healer, working the crowd at some or other hick burg, and halfway down the rope up pops a plumber to express misgivings about the incoming regime's tax plans.

    Supposedly, under the Obama tax plan, 95 percent of the American people will get a tax cut. You'd think that at this point the natural skepticism of any sentient being other than 6-week-old puppies might kick in, but apparently not. If you're wondering why Obama didn't simply announce that under his plan 112 percent of the American people will get a tax cut, well, they ran it past the focus groups who said that that was all very generous but they'd really like it if he could find a way to stick it to **** Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove and whatnot. So 95 percent it is.

    By the way, like the nightly news shows, this column now has an exclusive lavishly funded Fact Check Unit set up at great expense (a colorful graphic with the words "FACT CHECK ALERT!") in a lame attempt to pass off our transparent political bias as some sort of scientific exercise. Our accredited credentialed licensed expert Fact Checkers from the University of Factology in the Czech Republic are standing by to rigorously Fact Check the candidate's claims. We check facts so you don't have to. All you have to do is sign up to our Fact-Check-Me-Now! Service, and we'll send you a daily Fact Check on your Facts Machine, which costs only $79.95 from Radio Shack (sorry, no checks).

    Anyway, our Fact Check Unit ran the numbers on the Obama tax-cut plan and the number is correct: "95." It's the words "percent" immediately following that are wrong: that's a typing error accidentally left in from the first draft. It should read: Under the Obama plan, 95 of the American people will get a tax cut.

    Joe the Plumber expressed his misgivings about the President-in-waiting's tax inclinations, and the O-Man smoothly reassured him: "It's not that I want to punish your success," he told the bloated plutocrat corporate toilet executive. "I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success, too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

    In that sentence about you spreading the wealth around, there's another typing error: that "you" should read "I, Barack." "You" will have no say in it. Joe the Plumber might think he himself can spread it around just fine, but everyone knows "trickle-down economics" don't work. So President-presumptive Obama kindly explained the new exquisitely condescending "talking-down economics." Put that in your pipe and solder it.

    Evidently the O-Mighty One was not happy after his encounter with Joe. He's still willing to talk to Ahmadinejad without preconditions. But never again will he talk to Joe the Plumber without preconditions. Outraged at the way the right-wing whackos were talking up Joe the Plumber as if he were an authentic regular Joe, like Joe Biden, the O-Bots of the media swung into action. Vast regiments of investigate reporters were redeployed from the Wasilla Holiday Inn back to the Lower 48.

    "We need you down here checking out this Joe the Plumber," editors barked to journalists.

    "But I'm this close to wrapping up the Wasilla Town Library banned-book investigation!"

    "Forget it! The Atlantic Monthly is claiming Joe the Plumber is Trig's real father. We can't get behind on this. Get to Minneapolis Airport. Joe the Plumber was seen in the bathroom with Sen. Larry Craig."

    "Yes, but he was installing a stopcock."

    "Look, you went to Columbia School of Journalism. This is what we bold, courageous journalists do. We're the conscience of the nation. We speak truth to plumber."

    "Er, shouldn't that be 'Speak truth to power'?"

    "That's the old edition of the handbook. Now we speak truth to power-tool operators. Joe the Carpenter, Joe the Plasterer, Joe the Electrician … . When you're building utopia, you don't want any builders getting in the way."

    Alas, as a result of this massive investment of journalistic resources, no investigative reporter will be free to investigate ACORN voter-registration fraud or Obama's ties to terrorist educator William Ayers until, oh, midway through his second term at least.

    Under the headline "Is 'Joe The Plumber' A Plumber? That's Debatable," John Seewer of the Associated Press triumphantly revealed that Joe is not a "licensed" plumber. In fact, he doesn't need to be licensed for the residential plumbing he does, but isn't that just typical of Bush-McCain insane out-of-control deregulation? It wouldn't surprise me to discover that most of these subprime homeowners got Joe in to plumb their subprime bathrooms. Next thing you know, the entire global economy goes down the toilet. Coincidence?

    Joe is now the most notorious plumber in American politics since the Watergate plumbers. And they weren't licensed, either. It turns out Joe doesn't even make 250 grand, and it's only the $250,000-a-year types who'll be paying more (please, no tittering) under Good King Barack. Joe Biden – that's Joe the Blue-collar Senator – said that he didn't know any $250,000 plumbers in his neighborhood, or even in the first-class club car on Amtrak he rides every night to demonstrate his blue-collar bona fides. On "Good Morning America," Diane Sawyer emphasized this point, anxious to give the apostate plumber one last chance to go with the flow:

    "Well, I just want to ask you now about the issue that was raised, because it's been a little confusing to me as I try to sort it out here. To get straight here, you're not taking home $250,000 now, am I right?"

    "No. No. Not even close," confessed Joe.

    So what's he got to be worried about?

    The heart of the American Dream is aspiration. That's why people came here from all over the world. Back in Eastern Europe, the Joe Bidens and Diane Sawyers of the day were telling Joe the Peasant: "Hey, look, man. You're a peasant in the 19th century, just like your forebears were peasants in the 12th century and your descendants will be peasants in the 26th century. So you're never gonna be earning 250 groats a year. Don't worry about it. Leave it to us. We know better." And Joe the Peasant eventually figured that one day he'd like to be able to afford the Premium Gruel with just a hint of arugula and got on the boat to Ellis Island. Because America is the land where a guy who doesn't have a 250-grand business today might just have one in five or 10 years' time.

    I'm with Joe the Plumber, not Joe the Hair-Plugger. He's articulated the animating principles of America better than anyone on either side in this campaign. Which is why the O-Bots need to destroy him. As Obama's catchphrase goes:

    "Joe the Plumber!

    Can we fix him?

    Joe the Plumber!

    Yes, we can!"

    For the record, I am not a government-licensed pundit. But I expect they'll fix that, too.

    ©MARK STEYN
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    Lew Rockwell defends Joe the Plumber, a rare bit of colour in an otherwise colourless US campaign.

    "The whole Joe the Plumber saga began when Joe Wurzelbacher from Toledo, Ohio, confronted Barack Obama about the candidate's tax plans. He wanted to know if Obama would raise his taxes. In particular, he was planning to buy a company with a revenue of $250,000 per year. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?

    ....But the New York Times did some digging and discovered — horror — that Joe is doing plumbing without a proper business license. How dare he call himself a plumber! A license is required by Toledo, not just one license for a partnership but for everyone who is called a plumber. Joe has not taken the training courses, is not a member of the union, and cannot legally call himself a plumber.

    The press reports on this were explosive, with reporters speaking as if they had caught this guy red-handed and completely discredited him. But what about the complete absurdity of the idea that you have to have a license in order to have the right to fix someone else's sink? This is Soviet like, but deeply entrenched in American professional life.

    By practicing plumbing without a license, Joe is bucking the system in a truly heroic way. He shouldn't be condemned for this. He should be celebrated as a freedom fighter. He has a lot more to complain about than just taxes. It is the state itself in all its incarnations that is his true enemy. He ought to demanding answers from the politicians about their regulatory schemes to further restrict competition in a wide range of areas (banking for example!).

    Most ridiculous is the idea that he shouldn't be called a plumber because he doesn't have a license. Here we see how licensing attacks even the use of our language. If he is doing plumbing, he is a plumber. Period."
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    Nice add, Mo250

    EasyELJ - this isn't meant as a wise-guy comment, but what's the take-home on that piece? It seems mostly invective, parody & fiction to me, so obviously I don't get it.
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    How can ANYONE be so blind as to what the left has done with Joe the plumber?

    I mean seriously.. he asked a real question and got obama to say he wants to spread the wealth. Awww.. .too bad. Now you see joe the plumber being slammed, networks with vans outside his house, and oh my favorite... his fukking taxes and credit reports being dug up.

    How can ANYONE think this is right? If at the end of his questioning he said "You convinced me Mr. Obama, You now have my vote" do you think all this bullsh*t would have gone on. Would his licensing really been an issue? Hell is that fact still an issue? This tax plan will KILL independent truckers.

    I dont understand the lack of understanding around the US today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How can ANYONE be so blind as to what the left has done with Joe the plumber?

    I mean seriously.. he asked a real question and got obama to say he wants to spread the wealth. Awww.. .too bad. Now you see joe the plumber being slammed, networks with vans outside his house, and oh my favorite... his fukking taxes and credit reports being dug up.

    How can ANYONE think this is right? If at the end of his questioning he said "You convinced me Mr. Obama, You now have my vote" do you think all this bullsh*t would have gone on. Would his licensing really been an issue? Hell is that fact still an issue? This tax plan will KILL independent truckers.

    I dont understand the lack of understanding around the US today.

    Adams
    Well....it does make a difference to me in the sense that "Joe the Plumber" isn't very close to realizing this dream of his at all. It's nice that he was posing legitimate concerns of legitimate individuals; unfortunately, that individual isn't likely to ever be him regardless of who the next president of the US is.

    This Joe the Plumber guy's attempt to represent a demographic that he doesn't really belong to is not much better than an 18 year old 150 lb kid that's just started working out deciding to be labeled "Joe the Powerlifter" or "Joe the Bodybuilder".

    He may have some good points, but they really aren't his to make if he's just a poseur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    Nice add, Mo250

    EasyELJ - this isn't meant as a wise-guy comment, but what's the take-home on that piece? It seems mostly invective, parody & fiction to me, so obviously I don't get it.
    i think to me the take home was this piece

    The heart of the American Dream is aspiration. That's why people came here from all over the world. Back in Eastern Europe, the Joe Bidens and Diane Sawyers of the day were telling Joe the Peasant: "Hey, look, man. You're a peasant in the 19th century, just like your forebears were peasants in the 12th century and your descendants will be peasants in the 26th century. So you're never gonna be earning 250 groats a year. Don't worry about it. Leave it to us. We know better." And Joe the Peasant eventually figured that one day he'd like to be able to afford the Premium Gruel with just a hint of arugula and got on the boat to Ellis Island. Because America is the land where a guy who doesn't have a 250-grand business today might just have one in five or 10 years' time.
    Really whether you make the 250k today or not is immaterial to the idea of having the opportunity to make it, and not being penalized for being successful. All the charts that people use to show the changes in tax rates leave out the detail of what they are paying already. At 50k a year you might pay after deductions 5-6k a year. Does it make any sense to anyone that if you manage to make 5x as much money the government should get 25x as much in taxes?

    The other takeaway is that the media is our enemy moreso even than the politicians. They did a heavier handed job vetting joe the plumber than they did with Obama. Who cares that he doesn't have a license? he doesn't need one for residential plumbing in ohio. Who cares how much he made 2 years ago during his divorce? he has dreams to make more, grow the business he is in and add jobs. If you take the same viewpoint, Obama should be ridiculed for running for president as 2 years before running he stated that he wasn't qualified to run in 08 himself. But of course since he's the liberal media's darling they'll just attack people who are against him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    This tax plan will KILL independent truckers.



    Adams
    Really? It seems that noone ever addressed Dougmans post from another thread. If he is correct, noone is getting "killed" by this.



    Quote Originally Posted by DougMan View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding tax law. A persons tax bracket and their effective tax rate are two different things. I believe what Barack intends to do is keep taxes for the first 250K the same, but then raise afterwards. So the first 250K you get with say a 35% tax, and then from 250,001+ you will be taxed at 39%.

    The first 25K or is taxed at one rate, then the next 15K at another rate etc.

    HowStuffWorks "Finding Your Tax Bracket"

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    The other takeaway I forgot to mention is "Does anyone trust Obama?". Saying you will only raise taxes for 250k and up yet have a balanced budget, and still have trillions in spending plan doesnt add up. 3rd party non partisan groups have already said that his plans so far fall about 280 billion a year short of breaking even. Thats 280 billion a year WORSE of a defecit than we have today. So who really believes Obama when he says only the upper tier wil be taxed more? And really for what anyhow, average home to get $16 a week? Is that going to make more of a difference than if the middle/lower class person worked 2 more hours a week?
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    Darn those sniveling leftists for going after Joe the Plumber.

    I guess if they were real men they'd do this.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/...bama_dead_bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Darn those sniveling leftists for going after Joe the Plumber.

    I guess if they were real men they'd do this.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/...bama_dead_bear
    If they were real men, they'd talk about the obvious lies in obama's math on taxes. You can't give someone a tax cut below $0 paid a year without it becoming welfare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    If they were real men, they'd talk about the obvious lies in obama's math on taxes. You can't give someone a tax cut below $0 paid a year without it becoming welfare.
    You know that both candidates plans fall short of their claims, right?

    McCain's plan is just as full of crap as Obama's plan is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Well....it does make a difference to me in the sense that "Joe the Plumber" isn't very close to realizing this dream of his at all. It's nice that he was posing legitimate concerns of legitimate individuals; unfortunately, that individual isn't likely to ever be him regardless of who the next president of the US is.

    This Joe the Plumber guy's attempt to represent a demographic that he doesn't really belong to is not much better than an 18 year old 150 lb kid that's just started working out deciding to be labeled "Joe the Powerlifter" or "Joe the Bodybuilder".

    He may have some good points, but they really aren't his to make if he's just a poseur.
    Thats complete bullsh*t, and if you really think that he deserves to be investigated because he posed a question is asinine. Regardless if he just started or not, he has started to make his livelihood on it. It DID NOT warrant a background investigation and his life SMEARED ON BIASED TV. What happened to privacy, or respect for his family? Since he asked a question that got Obama to say something truthfully that goes out the window? You didn't answer my question... if he said Obama convinced him, would we now know his credit sucks?

    Just like the biased medias polls are being stacked, so if McCain did win they could contest it and say he stole it. Shoot, by November 2, MSNBC is going to report a 90%/10% lead, when Politico still says its close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Really? It seems that noone ever addressed Dougmans post from another thread. If he is correct, noone is getting "killed" by this.
    Well lets look at this. I was listening to a call in from a independent trucker. As it stands now he must claim just over 250K on his taxes. BUT being independent most of that goes to gas, maintenance, basically over head. When all is said and done he bring about 49K home to the family. Now raising the taxes on him WILL make a much larger impact than someone who truly brings home 250K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    You know that both candidates plans fall short of their claims, right?

    McCain's plan is just as full of crap as Obama's plan is.
    i think slightly less so but still plenty of manure in either
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Thats complete bullsh*t, and if you really think that he deserves to be investigated because he posed a question is asinine. Regardless if he just started or not, he has started to make his livelihood on it. It DID NOT warrant a background investigation and his life SMEARED ON BIASED TV. What happened to privacy, or respect for his family? Since he asked a question that got Obama to say something truthfully that goes out the window? You didn't answer my question... if he said Obama convinced him, would we now know his credit sucks?

    Just like the biased medias polls are being stacked, so if McCain did win they could contest it and say he stole it. Shoot, by November 2, MSNBC is going to report a 90%/10% lead, when Politico still says its close.

    Adams
    The "asinine" part is thinking you can make yourself a public figure without scrutiny.

    He portrayed himself to be something he wasn't and got called on it.

    As far as your theoretical question is concerned, I would wager that once "Joe the Plumber" decided to endorse Barack Obama your buddies in McCains camp would have done the background check, and likely also labeled him a terrorist, communist, or a servant of the anti-christ.

    It's okay to come down off the horse Adams. You're getting pretty agitated up there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Well lets look at this. I was listening to a call in from a independent trucker. As it stands now he must claim just over 250K on his taxes. BUT being independent most of that goes to gas, maintenance, basically over head. When all is said and done he bring about 49K home to the family. Now raising the taxes on him WILL make a much larger impact than someone who truly brings home 250K.

    Adams
    He doesn't need McCain or Obama. He needs a competent accountant that will start going to work on those business expenses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    The "asinine" part is thinking you can make yourself a public figure without scrutiny.

    He portrayed himself to be something he wasn't and got called on it.

    As far as your theoretical question is concerned, I would wager that once "Joe the Plumber" stated that he was going to vote for Obama your buddies in McCains camp would have done the background check, and likely also labeled him a terrorist, communist, or a servant of the anti-christ.

    It's okay to come down off the horse Adams. You're getting pretty agitated up there.
    Not agitated at all my friend.

    You are trying to turn assumption into reality to justify your scrutiny. The invasion of privacy is ridiculous. When you cant ask your presidential hopeful a question without being investigated for skeletons is down right ridiculous. Gotta love when someone justify's instilling a sense fear to keep their position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    He doesn't need McCain or Obama. He needs a competent accountant that will start going to work on those business expenses.
    Do you think that is possible at $4 a gallon of diesel pulling 10+ tons. If so I want your accountant for sure. Pulling money from thin air is what I am looking for right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Gotta love when someone justify's instilling a sense fear to keep their position.

    Adams
    Like when one candidate's camp decides to exploit religious and social fears?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Like when one candidate's camp decides to exploit religious and social fears?

    You mean Hillary during the primary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Like when one candidate's camp decides to exploit religious and social fears?


    Way to avoid my inquiries. Always pointing at others. Like the initiation of the Economy bubble. Guess that one was Bushs fault?

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    Where is my Rifle and my Bible... I need it NOW!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Where is my Rifle and my Bible... I need it NOW!!!

    Adams

    You're a clinger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Do you think that is possible at $4 a gallon of diesel pulling 10+ tons. If so I want your accountant for sure. Pulling money from thin air is what I am looking for right now.

    Adams
    If your net profit is only 40k after 250k, you are looking at alot of business expenses.

    There are plenty of ways for that guy to get well under the 250k bracket of taxable income.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    You're a clinger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post


    Way to avoid my inquiries. Always pointing at others. Like the initiation of the Economy bubble. Guess that one was Bushs fault?

    Adams

    Actually I'm attempting to widen your field of vision.

    Do you honestly believe one of these two parties has their feet firmly planted on moral highground while the other does not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    You mean Hillary during the primary?

    Sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Actually I'm attempting to widen your field of vision.

    Do you honestly believe one of these two parties has their feet firmly planted on moral highground while the other does not?
    No, but when one states he the the politician of change and its a new politics, the people that actually believe that (which is most) are in for a pretty big disappointment.


    Its the same logic when people trash conservatives that hire hookers. Its hypocrisy at its finest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Actually I'm attempting to widen your field of vision.

    Do you honestly believe one of these two parties has their feet firmly planted on moral highground while the other does not?
    Oh... never said one was a saint here. That wasn't my intention. I came in stating what was being done to Joe was reprehensible. Purely disgusting. Because he got Messiah Obama to say he wanted to spread the wealth. Giving money to the useless leaches of society that deserves to be where they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Gotta love when someone justify's instilling a sense fear to keep their position.

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    What group of people developed this overwhelming sense of fear you speak of?

    Isn't that a tad bit chicken littleish?

    Were you really that frightened by that whole chain of events?

    I'm not. The way I figure it, If I were in that position I might not want to lie about who I am.
    If I work at the airport, but one day I hope to be the next Fred Smith, I'm hardly going to claim I am an airline pilot, and talk about owning Federal Express like it's actually about to happen.

    It's not like "Joe" just asked a question and thats it. He pretended to be something he wasn't.

    10-1 odds the "investigation" was kickstarted when someone that knew "Joe" pointed out that he was full of crap. He should have known better than to lie.

    Thats the bottom line. Not that he spoke, but that he wasn't truthful, and he (and apparently you) figured the media would just gloss over that.

    It's a story. Someone is going to run it, regardless of their political view. Thats what they get paid for. To beat the competition to the punch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    No, but when one states he the the politician of change and its a new politics, the people that actually believe that (which is most) are in for a pretty big disappointment.


    Its the same logic when people trash conservatives that hire hookers. Its hypocrisy at its finest.

    Which guy are you talking about?

    They are both saying that stuff.

    That's what gets me. Both guys say the same thing in their own words and they actually manage to get people to line up behind them and believe what they said but simultaneously say the other guy is full of crap for what he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    What group of people developed this overwhelming sense of fear you speak of?

    Isn't that a tad bit chicken littleish?

    Were you really that frightened by that whole chain of events?

    I'm not. The way I figure it, If I were in that position I might not want to lie about who I am.
    If I work at the airport, but one day I hope to be the next Fred Smith, I'm hardly going to claim I am an airline pilot, and talk about owning Federal Express like it's actually about to happen.

    It's not like "Joe" just asked a question and thats it. He pretended to be something he wasn't.

    10-1 odds the "investigation" was kickstarted when someone that knew "Joe" pointed out that he was full of crap. He should have known better than to lie.

    Thats the bottom line. Not that he spoke, but that he wasn't truthful, and he (and apparently you) figured the media would just gloss over that.

    It's a story. Someone is going to run it, regardless of their political view. Thats what they get paid for. To beat the competition to the punch.
    You are twisting it up again. Funny that only biased left media did the attacking.... where is the morality in that? God help us if Obama is president... so now we cant question the president without the backlash of MSNBC? Regardless of my background, please tell me that is right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    Which guy are you talking about?

    They are both saying that stuff.

    That's what gets me. Both guys say the same thing in their own words and they actually manage to get people to line up behind them and believe what they said but simultaneously say the other guy is full of crap for what he said.


    You must have arms that are 20ft long....cause I've never seen someone reach that far before.


    Which guy...now THAT is funny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You are twisting it up again. Funny that only biased left media did the attacking.... where is the morality in that? God help us if Obama is president... so now we cant question the president without the backlash of MSNBC? Regardless of my background, please tell me that is right.

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    Well if apparently "all the media is leftist", then it would stand to reason that only biased left media would be doing the reporting, now wouldn't it?

    We're entering tree falling in the forest with noone around territory now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    You are twisting it up again.
    Well, to justify attacking Joe the Plumber, you sort of need to.


    It really is sad..whether he's a licensed plumber or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    Well, to justify attacking Joe the Plumber, you sort of need to.


    It really it sad..whether he's a licensed plumber or not.
    Agreed... Plumber or not... I thought he was American and entitled to privacy and his words.

    Learn, Teach, and dont stand up to Obama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    You must have arms that are 20ft long....cause I've never seen someone reach that far before.


    Which guy...now THAT is funny.
    You must obviously be a magician, since I've never seen that much flash before with no substance to show for it at the end.



    You and I both know McCain is claiming to be the same guy Obama is.

    He's a change agent. He's a Maverick. He's going to unite both parties.

    Same crap. Different guy.

    That should be their respective motto's from here on out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Agreed... Plumber or not... I thought he was American and entitled to privacy and his words.


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    So now the background check was unAmerican? The mere fact that someone was able to pull that check on him and have the freedom to expound on it's contents is America the Free at it's finest.

    It goes with being a public figure. You cats can take the route of an externalist all you want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    You must obviously be a magician, since I've never seen that much flash before with no substance to show for it at the end.
    Substance? 18 months of campaigning on the same platform? Do you want pictures to understand?

    Whatever substance I could show, you would ignore it anyway so whats the point? Those blinders you have on are squeezing the blood out of your head and into those 20ft long arms!


    You and I both know McCain is claiming to be the same guy Obama is.


    He's a change agent. He's a Maverick. He's going to unite both parties.

    Same crap. Different guy.

    That should be their respective motto's from here on out.
    What is sad is you actually equate about 1 month of campaigning to 18 months of Obama's campaign.

    You might want to take a poll but I have this sneaky feeling that the general public thinks Obama is more of a change than John McCain. Its just a hunch.

    And to repeat my earlier point, if the public actually thinks this guy is a candidate of change (which most do) they are in for the biggest disappointment they've ever had.

    Sheep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmorpheuss View Post
    So now the background check was unAmerican? The mere fact that someone was able to pull that check on him and have the freedom to expound on it's contents is America the Free at it's finest.

    It goes with being a public figure. You cats can take the route of an externalist all you want.
    Really... cause I always believed I had the right to a certain amount of privacy. Its paramount to infringment upon an amendment. Illegal search and seizure my friend.

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