McCain will 'suspend' campaign tomorrow

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  1. Warren Buffett: We are facing financial Pearl Harbor.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Don't worry I can get enough supplies for everyone

    Who do you think is gonna handle the economy better? why?
    mccain obviously. What do you think corporations will do when their taxes go up? cut costs by lowering wages or laying off people, and raise prices. Given the % of middle class income that goes towards non-housing related expenses, i'd say the middle class will be worse off by raising corporate taxes. Unemployment will climb, and so will inflation. Sounds just great, and all of us middle class families will get a WHOPPING $20 a week in tax credit. You heard that right, $20 whole dollars a week. Just think what a difference that will make!

    The reverse is true as well. Less corporate taxes means more spare dollars for corporations to invest in themselves and growth, meaning more jobs. Actually even 10x moreso right now. So theres a credit crunch and it may be difficult for businesses to get credit to finance expansion. The perfect time for a lower corporate tax so those companies have cash to do the expansion with instead.
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  3. Someone once referred to Obama followers as sheep. Well lemmings, your cliff is coming, Enjoy the dive.

    :bruce3:

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Fastone View Post
    Someone once referred to Obama followers as sheep. Well lemmings, your cliff is coming, Enjoy the dive.

    :bruce3:

    I don't think you quite understand the cliff is created by the earth disapppearing under your feet.

    Obama is meeting tomorrow in Washington with everyone else. This is bigger than both of them.
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  5. Thanks for the insight.

    You people seem to know your sh*t when it comes to politics, I feel like I'm stepping in a pitch black area and quick sand, hate politics.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    I don't think you quite understand the cliff is created by the earth disapppearing under your feet.

    Obama is meeting tomorrow in Washington with everyone else. This is bigger than both of them.
    Agreed, actually it's bigger than all of us.

    :bruce3:

  7. Joe Biden explained this the best.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glrnb_G34E4"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]


    Can anyone tell me whats wrong with this and can you imagine if Palin said this?


    This one is by far, the best one he's done to date.


    Give up? First, it was Hoover, not Roosevelt. Second, there were no TV's in 1929.

    Classic Biden.
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  8. give yourself a pat on the back if you voted bush back in the second time, lol.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by somewhatgifted View Post
    give yourself a pat on the back if you voted bush back in the second time, lol.
    Do you mean because he warned congress about Fannie and Freddie and yet no one did anything about it?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Do you mean because he warned congress about Fannie and Freddie and yet no one did anything about it?
    I am astounded how far the mighty have fallen. Introspection may prove that the current status is valid or understandable with a "we did what we had to do attitude". From afar it looks like a bed shatting, and it stinks so bad i wish i was farther away. Whom stands to benefit the most i always wonder?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    ....

    You people seem to know your sh*t when it comes to politics, I feel like I'm stepping in a pitch black area and quick sand, hate politics.
    Could not agree more! Hate blinds!
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    mccain obviously. What do you think corporations will do when their taxes go up? cut costs by lowering wages or laying off people, and raise prices. Given the % of middle class income that goes towards non-housing related expenses, i'd say the middle class will be worse off by raising corporate taxes. Unemployment will climb, and so will inflation. Sounds just great, and all of us middle class families will get a WHOPPING $20 a week in tax credit. You heard that right, $20 whole dollars a week. Just think what a difference that will make!

    The reverse is true as well. Less corporate taxes means more spare dollars for corporations to invest in themselves and growth, meaning more jobs. Actually even 10x moreso right now. So theres a credit crunch and it may be difficult for businesses to get credit to finance expansion. The perfect time for a lower corporate tax so those companies have cash to do the expansion with instead.
    Unfortunately, Economics is one of those areas where we all claim expertise. With so many pseudo-experts around, things are bound to go wrong. And get worse!
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Unfortunately, Economics is one of those areas where we all claim expertise. With so many pseudo-experts around, things are bound to go wrong. And get worse!
    I'm not talking from vague theory from afar, i'm talking about my own life. I made around xxxk last year, and after taxes got to keep around xxx of it. If i get stuck paying another 12k in taxes, thats $1000 a month I have to make up for somehow. So i'll likely stop paying for lawncare (around $100 a month), go out to eat even less often than now (2-3 times a month), be less likely to go to concerts and sporting events as well as not hiring a babysitter, and still be forced to raise the price of my professional services to make up for the rest. So this has direct impact on the people whose services I no longer use, and in lawn care alone the amount that is lost by me no longer using them is greater than the additional $20 a week that obama's low end tax credit will give them. I'm not the only person in this situation, and so from the longer term impact of the waste of the tax dollars by the horrible way the government uses it and the layers of beaurocracy, it ends up being a net loss for the population as it will stunt growth, and hurt many small business owners.

  14. All partisan stuff aside, what is the ramifications of no bailout vs a bailout. Obviously the deficit grows if there is a bailout, but what happens if there isn't?

  15. Business' can't acquire the money they need for basic operations.


    Probably double digit, some say 20% unemployment.


    Joe Average with a 740 FICO score can't buy a car unless he writes a check for the whole thing..that is if he still has a job.


    Budgets get cut across the board for just about everything.


    Soup kitchen lines in urban areas become a tourist attraction because of their size.


    That's a basic view of it.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Business' can't acquire the money they need for basic operations.


    Probably double digit, some say 20% unemployment.


    Joe Average with a 740 FICO score can't buy a car unless he writes a check for the whole thing..that is if he still has a job.


    Budgets get cut across the board for just about everything.


    Soup kitchen lines in urban areas become a tourist attraction because of their size.


    That's a basic view of it.
    Is that if AIG isn't bailed out, or all the companies?

  17. No, that has nothing to do with AIG. This has to do with the 700 billion to buy the bad mortgage backed securities and take them off the banks books.

    Its basically choking the credit market to death.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    No, that has nothing to do with AIG. This has to do with the 700 billion to buy the bad mortgage backed securities and take them off the banks books.

    Its basically choking the credit market to death.
    I need to read up on this more. Let me see if I can try to understand this:

    A couple investment banks have already gone under (Bears Stearns, Lehman), and the rest are at risk if the US Gov't doesn't buy their bad mortgages? Was Fannie/Freddie previously buying their bad mortgages?

    Work with me here...I need to get smarter on this stuff.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I need to read up on this more. Let me see if I can try to understand this:

    A couple investment banks have already gone under (Bears Stearns, Lehman), and the rest are at risk if the US Gov't doesn't buy their bad mortgages? Was Fannie/Freddie previously buying their bad mortgages?

    Work with me here...I need to get smarter on this stuff.

    Fannie and Freddie sold bundles of these mortgages to investors, then those investors sold them to other people in the form of mortgage backed securities, then that buyer has them insured through companies like AIG, etc....it was basically flipping large loan packages based on the idea that house values would increase.

    Then the original loans went into default because the people couldn't pay them, the value of the properties dropped, and the whole house of cards fell apart. You basically built this house of cards on sub prime loans and the idea that prices would continue to rise.

    Now all these people who have the mortgage backed securities on their books have extremely bad credit ratings and basically can't borrow or lend and these are the institutions who lend money to large business's who constantly use credit lines for inventory, payroll, growth, etc...

    This isn't just banks that did this. Pension funds, investment banks, insurance carriers, etc...all bought this stuff as an "investment".



    And that's a very simplistic way of looking at it...
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Fannie and Freddie sold bundles of these mortgages to investors, then those investors sold them to other people in the form of mortgage backed securities, then that buyer has them insured through companies like AIG, etc....it was basically flipping large loan packages based on the idea that house values would increase.

    Then the original loans went into default because the people couldn't pay them, the value of the properties dropped, and the whole house of cards fell apart. You basically built this house of cards on sub prime loans and the idea that prices would continue to rise.

    Now all these people who have the mortgage backed securities on their books have extremely bad credit ratings and basically can't borrow or lend and these are the institutions who lend money to large business's who constantly use credit lines for inventory, payroll, growth, etc...

    This isn't just banks that did this. Pension funds, investment banks, insurance carriers, etc...all bought this stuff as an "investment".



    And that's a very simplistic way of looking at it...
    So basically the US Gov't buys up all the bad mortgages and everything starts fresh?

    Anyway I can I get them to buy up my mortgage? That way I can buy a new house without taking a $70,000 bath through selling

  21. And the whole issue began with government making it law that banks have to lend to people with bad credit or people with lower income or their ratings would suffer which would int turn cost them more in terms of interest rates when they lend and borrow to other institutions.

    Its basically the government telling you that you either lend to these people, or your rating will go down and your interest rate to borrow/lend will be 10% vs. 5%. The amount of interest you pay is based on your rating.

    That's the part you rarely hear about because the ones who instituted these types of policies are the same ones heading the Democratic Party.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    So basically the US Gov't buys up all the bad mortgages and everything starts fresh?
    Sort of. The major problem is there isn't a real value to many of the mortgage pools. Everyone knows that in their current state the value will continue to drop until there is a floor hit. Once a floor is established you can then resell these packages and make back your money. For the most part, once a floor is established, these things will sell because over the ling run, real estate always goes up. So you are basically buying them back at maybe 50 cents on the dollar, then selling them back over time. In their current form, they are toxic because the value continues to drop...once a price is set (which the gov does when they buy them back) you can auction off these loans ot private investors over time who will make money off them.

    Anyway I can I get them to buy up my mortgage? That way I can buy a new house without taking a $70,000 bath through selling
    Unless it was a risky loan that is resetting or your undergoing foreclosure, no.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    And the whole issue began with government making it law that banks have to lend to people with bad credit or people with lower income or their ratings would suffer which would int turn cost them more in terms of interest rates when they lend and borrow to other institutions.

    Its basically the government telling you that you either lend to these people, or your rating will go down and your interest rate to borrow/lend will be 10% vs. 5%. The amount of interest you pay is based on your rating.

    That's the part you rarely hear about because the ones who instituted these types of policies are the same ones heading the Democratic Party.
    Yeah, I remember reading about the CRA that you posted before. Thanks for the explanation. This situation will not be pretty. Any chance we go into a huge recession even with the bail out?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    That's the part you rarely hear about because the ones who instituted these types of policies are the same ones heading the Democratic Party.
    this is beyond the partisan stuff. As you know the republican congress was in bed with this as well

  25. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Yeah, I remember reading about the CRA that you posted before. Thanks for the explanation. This situation will not be pretty. Any chance we go into a huge recession even with the bail out?

    Nobody knows. The theory is no...but credit is going to be tightened up for a while.

    Bottom line, don't spend more than you have.
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Unless it was a risky loan that is resetting or your undergoing foreclosure, no.
    So you're saying I need to stop paying my mortgage.......

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Reaper329 View Post
    this is beyond the partisan stuff. As you know the republican congress was in bed with this as well
    As I stated before, yes they were but many of them aren't around anymore. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are for the most part, Democrat entities and many of those are still in power and the ones trying to fix it now. Its not partisan, its just a fact. Republicans are more tied with oil and energy.

    What happened is not against the law. In fact, it was bad laws that enables this.

    This talk about more regulation is a smoke screen to cover up the laws they enacted. Its basically saying, I know I created a bad law but was too incompetent to foresee what other people would do and the Bush should have seen this coming and regulated the problem I created in the first place.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Bottom line, don't spend more than you have.
    its comical to say that on one hand, and have the federal goverment about to spend 700 billion it doesnt have to fix it. i wonder if we shouldnt just let the chips fall

  29. Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    So you're saying I need to stop paying my mortgage.......
    You could, but then you probably couldn't get a loan for anything in the next 10 years

    Its tough enough with a score above 700...cna't imagine the interst rate you would pay with a FICO score of 500.
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  30. people are going to be renting for a while.
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