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Obama's service corps

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    Obama's service corps


    The one I like best is how our tax money is going to pay college students $40 A ****ING HOUR to do community service. Given how that level of compensation will blow away almost any summer job or internship, almost all college students will sign up.

    The list of Obama Corps, most of which are new, and the rest which he proposes to dramatically expand:

    Green Job Corps
    AmeriCorps VISTA
    Experience Corps
    Senior Corps
    Classroom Corps
    Health Corps
    Clean Energy Corps
    Veterans Corps
    Homeland Security Corps
    Peace Corps
    Global Energy Corps
    Social Investment Fund Network
    Social Entrepreneurship Agency for Nonprofits
    Corporation for National and Community Service

    This is supposed to further Obama's stated goal of creating a "civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the US national security industry.

    What people don't realize is that it's not the president's job to define values or community, it's his job to run the ****ing government. Society is supposed to be free of government interference except for absolute necessities. This, obviously, doesn't include the 'reforming of American morality and moral standing."

    F-off Obama, you ****ing socialist.

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    "What people don't realize is that it's not the president's job to define values or community, it's his job to run the ****ing government."

    Actually, it's his job to simply sign or veto legislation so it's not like he can make all those $40/hour Green Corps jobs happen without significant Congressional support.
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    He is responsible for the federal budget, so he can try to make all of these things happen. So you're technically right. But, it is foreseeable that the Democratic party will hold the majority in Congress no matter who wins the Presidential election. So, it's both right and wrong.

    Beyond that, I still consider the President's job to be the running of the government. I mean, the federal budget is pretty expansive and encompassing. His signatures and vetoes are also usually pretty withstanding. With the obvious checks and balances the President is restrained in his action, but his capabilities within the government and the running of it are still far outreaching of the other pieces of the machine.
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    Since the Dems hold only a slim majority in the Senate, I don't foresee any runaway spending on gigantic social programs except for healthcare which now has a scary amount of bipartisan support. Nobody can F up the current healthcare situation like the govt can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Since the Dems hold only a slim majority in the Senate, I don't foresee any runaway spending on gigantic social programs except for healthcare which now has a scary amount of bipartisan support. Nobody can F up the current healthcare situation like the govt can.
    I think it's 36 seats in the senate are up in the air this season. It could get very ugly. I will feel bad for people if universal healthcare does in fact take hold. If anyone knows about healthcare in Canada or England you know what I'm talking about. Luckily the HMOs will probably still stick around. Most people don't realize that the government already helps out a lot with healthcare!
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    I just finished a year in Americorps and I didn't get $40 dollars an hour.

    I only got $150/wk and that was working like 70 hour weeks, its pretty much like selling your soul to do community service.
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    None of those Service Corps pay $40 and hour. I have friends in many of them.

    Most of them give you a living stipend of $100-$400 a week, not actual pay, and money for college at the end which for a years service is about $4500.

    The people who do these jobs are doing them because they want to help the community not because they want the money, because the money isn't good.

    They earn every bit of the money they earn too, and probably deserve more. For my year of service I tutored and mentored about 40 under-privliged students through out the course of the year consistently, hosted an afterschool program with 3 other volunteers for about 70 children (whos parents didn't give a ****) everyday after school, and helped kids with there homework ect.

    When I wasn't working in the schools I was in an office planning big community service projects with a team of other volunteers. We planned, mannaged, and executed about 50 community service projects over the course of the year. These included painting, cleaning up graffiti, and building a baseball field at 2 area youth centers. And painting 30 houses in a lower class neighborhood with about 50 people in one single day.

    It would be nearly impossible for me to list all of the other things we did over the course of our year of service, but just letting everyone know that these programs aren't a waste.

    The pay that we got over the course of the year came out to around $.75 an hour, thats right. We worked our asses off almost 70 hours every week for that! NOT BECAUSE WE WANTED THE PAY, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyjames View Post
    None of those Service Corps pay $40 and hour. I have friends in many of them.

    Most of them give you a living stipend of $100-$400 a week, not actual pay, and money for college at the end which for a years service is about $4500.

    The people who do these jobs are doing them because they want to help the community not because they want the money, because the money isn't good.

    They earn every bit of the money they earn too, and probably deserve more. For my year of service I tutored and mentored about 40 under-privliged students through out the course of the year consistently, hosted an afterschool program with 3 other volunteers for about 70 children (whos parents didn't give a ****) everyday after school, and helped kids with there homework ect.

    When I wasn't working in the schools I was in an office planning big community service projects with a team of other volunteers. We planned, mannaged, and executed about 50 community service projects over the course of the year. These included painting, cleaning up graffiti, and building a baseball field at 2 area youth centers. And painting 30 houses in a lower class neighborhood with about 50 people in one single day.

    It would be nearly impossible for me to list all of the other things we did over the course of our year of service, but just letting everyone know that these programs aren't a waste.

    The pay that we got over the course of the year came out to around $.75 an hour, thats right. We worked our asses off almost 70 hours every week for that! NOT BECAUSE WE WANTED THE PAY, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE!

    (the point)........................ .............................. .............................. .............................. .......(you)

    that's how far away your last two posts were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    (the point)........................ .............................. .............................. .............................. .......(you)

    that's how far away your last two posts were.
    Just trying to show how hard these people work, and how little pay they get man.

    Check your sources too, most of those are Clinton's programs.
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    my source was obama.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    I think it's 36 seats in the senate are up in the air this season. It could get very ugly. I will feel bad for people if universal healthcare does in fact take hold. If anyone knows about healthcare in Canada or England you know what I'm talking about. Luckily the HMOs will probably still stick around. Most people don't realize that the government already helps out a lot with healthcare!
    I do; apparently you don't. Maybe you could explain the horrors, though? I know it was horrific being a part-time wage-worker in Canada, yet still knowing that the entirety of my fees from a severe accident (elongated hospital stay, casts, x-rays, extensive physiotherapy and so on) were covered by the government. As a 20 year-old laborer in America, my chances of having such coverage would have been slim-to-none. Those who paint such a broad brush of Universal Healthcare most often do not understand it in its entirety; however, you called a Liberal Democrat a Socialist, so that doesn't surprise me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    As a 20 year-old laborer in America, my chances of having such coverage would have been slim-to-none.
    Actually it would have been your choice and if you were under a certain income level the government does cover you.
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    your right I might not know as much about the canadian health care system. I know quite a bit about the british system and since the canadian system is similar I lumped them together.

    Oh and about the Obama comment, yeah, he is a socialist. Fits the modern definition almost perfectly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Actually it would have been your choice and if you were under a certain income level the government does cover you.
    Choice is relative - defined by socioeconomic status. Given my income level at the time, the affordable options presented to me would not have covered the extensive nature of my care; nor would the government have subsidized my care. However B, feel free to elaborate more on my personal details which you know nothing about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Oh and about the Obama comment, yeah, he is a socialist. Fits the modern definition almost perfectly.
    I suppose if you bend any definition enough it will fit. Neo-Socialism is a distinct political idiom, and does not fit within a bipartisan liberal democratic state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I suppose if you bend any definition enough it will fit. Neo-Socialism is a distinct political idiom, and does not fit within a bipartisan liberal democratic state.
    Ever heard of Social Democracy?.........yeah.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I do; apparently you don't. Maybe you could explain the horrors, though? I know it was horrific being a part-time wage-worker in Canada, yet still knowing that the entirety of my fees from a severe accident (elongated hospital stay, casts, x-rays, extensive physiotherapy and so on) were covered by the government. As a 20 year-old laborer in America, my chances of having such coverage would have been slim-to-none. Those who paint such a broad brush of Universal Healthcare most often do not understand it in its entirety; however, you called a Liberal Democrat a Socialist, so that doesn't surprise me!

    As a 20 year old laborer in America you're looking at about $90 a month for substantial coverage. A fraction of that if you're just seeking coverage for catastrophic events.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Choice is relative - defined by socioeconomic status. Given my income level at the time, the affordable options presented to me would not have covered the extensive nature of my care; nor would the government have subsidized my care. However B, feel free to elaborate more on my personal details which you know nothing about.
    Who mentioned anything about your financial status? I said you would have had a choice (no care, some care, more care...the choice is yours) or IF you were under a certain level of income the government would have forked the bill. That's what Medicaid does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Ever heard of Social Democracy?.........yeah.....
    I have; apparently you haven't heard Socialism and Social Democracy are separate idioms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usf97j4x4 View Post
    As a 20 year old laborer in America you're looking at about $90 a month for substantial coverage. A fraction of that if you're just seeking coverage for catastrophic events.
    Great! $90/month to run the risk of being automatically precluded from coverage, or face retroactively paying my premiums based on ridiculous prerequisites. I'll take the free option, de nada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Who mentioned anything about your financial status? I said you would have had a choice (no care, some care, more care...the choice is yours) or IF you were under a certain level of income the government would have forked the bill. That's what Medicaid does.
    And I told you that choice is relatively defined by socioeconomic status, as you alluded to. Your assumption was that I would have been 'fine and dandy', which I assure you I would not have been.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Ever heard of Social Democracy?.........yeah.....
    To clarify:

    Social democracy is a political ideology that emerged in the late 19th century out of the socialist movement.[1] Modern social democracy advocates the formation of a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices.[2] This is unlike socialism in the traditional sense, which aims to end the predominance of the capitalist system, or in the Marxist sense which aims to replace it entirely. Instead, social democrats aim to reform capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation of programs and organizations which work to ameliorate or remove injustices they see in the capitalist market system. "Social democracy" is also used to refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate. While some consider social democracy a moderate type of socialism, others, defining socialism in the traditional or Marxist sense, reject that designation.
    I.e., it is not Socialism. Common mistake - or deliberate confusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    And I told you that choice is relatively defined by socioeconomic status, as you alluded to. Your assumption was that I would have been 'fine and dandy', which I assure you I would not have been.
    And you know this how?

    (since my wife had 2 brothers covered form car accidents in the last 3 years)
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    And you know this how?

    (since my wife had 2 brothers covered form car accidents in the last 3 years)
    Apparently your wife is quite unlucky.

    Given my economic status at the time, and the plans alluded to by US above, the medical expense limit would have been far surpassed by myself. With internal bleeding, several major bones broken and extensive therapy, my hospital stay was several weeks - several. Compounded by several months of adjacent physical therapy tied to the accident, these spiffy $90/month student plans would not have covered me. And, surprise surprise, my permanent part-time, easily disposable work would not have afforded for me to have comprehensive coverage.

    On average (non-specific care, no surgeries, casts, x-rays, and so on) the cost of one night in the hospital is $2000. I spent about 95 days, seeing several specialists and undertaking physiotherapy.

    I'm always taken aback at your surprise that the U.S. Healthcare system is broken; even Bill O'Reilly can admit as such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Apparently your wife is quite unlucky.

    She has 5 brothers, so its really not that bad

    Given my economic status at the time, and the plans alluded to by US above, the medical expense limit would have been far surpassed by myself. With internal bleeding, several major bones broken and extensive therapy, my hospital stay was several weeks - several.
    Yes, they did as well with one suffering brain trauma in which he is still getting treatment for to this day.

    I can send you pictures of the remnants of the car is you wish..whats left of it.

    Compounded by several months of adjacent physical therapy tied to the accident, these spiffy $90/month student plans would not have covered me.
    $90/month is not a student plan. If you went with a standard personal plan you would have been covered. Now you can either pay more or less based on how much you want your deductible to be..if any.

    [/quote]And, surprise surprise, my permanent part-time, easily disposable work would not have afforded for me to have comprehensive coverage.
    [/quote]

    You are not bound to that coverage. You simply have the choice to do as you please in terms of private coverage.



    I'm always taken aback at your surprise that the U.S. Healthcare system is broken; even Bill O'Reilly can admit as such.

    I am always taken aback that you generalize about all coverage and what we actually pay for when you are not even here. TO say that the healthcare system could not improved would be rather foolish and I've never said its perfect. I manage my health care much more than you do so I know exactly how much I pay, exactly whats covered for 2 people. How on earth you can sit there and think you know what you would actually pay down here without ever going through any of it is pretty ridiculous.

    You like you health care system. Fine, I have no problem with that but I would simply rather have a choice on my coverage and not be forced into a system run by the governemtn that has to manage 300 million people. I simply don't trust they can do it better than me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    She has 5 brothers, so its really not that bad

    Yes, they did as well with one suffering brain trauma in which he is still getting treatment for to this day.

    I can send you pictures of the remnants of the car is you wish..whats left of it.
    No thanks. I have my own collection of pictures with the grill of a semi-truck where my head was.

    $90/month is not a student plan. If you went with a standard personal plan you would have been covered. Now you can either pay more or less based on how much you want your deductible to be..if any.

    You are not bound to that coverage. You simply have the choice to do as you please in terms of private coverage.
    Odd you say that, because most Standard Personal Plans offer only 50% coverage after deductible for non-emergency, outpatient visits; even then, only about 20 per coverage. Myself, I underwent months of physiotherapy, and chiropractic visits, and - as I mentioned initially - I would not have been able to afford this.

    I am always taken aback that you generalize about all coverage and what we actually pay for when you are not even here. TO say that the healthcare system could not improved would be rather foolish and I've never said its perfect. I manage my health care much more than you do so I know exactly how much I pay, exactly whats covered for 2 people. How on earth you can sit there and think you know what you would actually pay down here without ever going through any of it is pretty ridiculous.
    I was actually contemplating a move to the U.S., for Law School, and given my unlucky accident history, did a fair amount of research. However, I suppose I do generalize - much in the same way you generalize about the quality of care of the Canadian system without knowing anything about it.

    You like you health care system. Fine, I have no problem with that but I would simply rather have a choice on my coverage and not be forced into a system run by the governemtn that has to manage 300 million people. I simply don't trust they can do it better than me.
    And I would rather sacrifice some of my personal freedoms for the assurance that I will never be precluded from coverage, kicked out of a hospital, be denied transplants based on previous medical history, or my personal favorite, be bankrupted by my medical bills.

    However, most of your points are fair though. We simply have an ideological disagreement at this point.
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    Liberty or security. The US chose Liberty and you can't have both as your primary ideal. You want a nanny state? Move to Canada. You want personal responsibility? Stay in the US. Sounds like a no brainer to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    Liberty or security. The US chose Liberty and you can't have both as your primary ideal. You want a nanny state? Move to Canada. You want personal responsibility? Stay in the US. Sounds like a no brainer to me.
    Me too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    yeah, he is a socialist. Fits the modern definition almost perfectly.

    I agree. He is a socialist- he is an advocate of socialism. He wants to raise the taxes on so many things- including people's inheritance! How is it right to take someones inheritance?- IMO that is screwed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No thanks. I have my own collection of pictures with the grill of a semi-truck where my head was.
    Pics!

    j/k


    Odd you say that, because most Standard Personal Plans offer only 50% coverage after deductible for non-emergency, outpatient visits; even then, only about 20 per coverage. Myself, I underwent months of physiotherapy, and chiropractic visits, and - as I mentioned initially - I would not have been able to afford this.
    Once again, I find it odd how you can state what most coverage plans are without actually searching for them actively like I did when I purchased mine. The above as you describe are options, not mandatory.

    I know this ios tough for you to beleive, but there is affordable health care insurance out there that will cover everything you describe. It simply is a fact.

    I was actually contemplating a move to the U.S., for Law School, and given my unlucky accident history, did a fair amount of research. However, I suppose I do generalize - much in the same way you generalize about the quality of care of the Canadian system without knowing anything about it.
    I havne't talked about Canadian helathcare in a while and would be the first to admit that I, as an AMerian citizen, would probably not understand it as much as you do. Its a reach, but bear with me!


    And I would rather sacrifice some of my personal freedoms for the assurance that I will never be precluded from coverage, kicked out of a hospital, be denied transplants based on previous medical history, or my personal favorite, be bankrupted by my medical bills.
    Once again, with the proper coverage and due diligence, the above simply can be avoided. I would rather have my freedom.


    However, most of your points are fair though. We simply have an ideological disagreement at this point.
    Fair enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Peterman View Post
    Pics!

    j/k
    Here is one. The back half of the truck no longer existed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by babywifey View Post
    I agree. He is a socialist- he is an advocate of socialism. He wants to raise the taxes on so many things- including people's inheritance! How is it right to take someones inheritance?- IMO that is screwed up.
    That doesn't make him a socialist, but many other things bring him as close to being an outright socialist as any presidential candidate has ever been.

    Mullet- First of all, I don't think wikipedia is quite the appropriate source for political theory, but I'll quote a line from the quote you posted, maybe you missed this part
    While some consider social democracy a moderate type of socialism, others, defining socialism in the traditional or Marxist sense, reject that designation.
    So it is and it isn't. Obama fits social democracy like a glove, and since many consider social democracy modern socialism, he is therefore a socialist to many. Redistribution is pretty much the flagship of modern state socialism, also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    That doesn't make him a socialist, but many other things bring him as close to being an outright socialist as any presidential candidate has ever been.

    Mullet- First of all, I don't think wikipedia is quite the appropriate source for political theory, but I'll quote a line from the quote you posted, maybe you missed this part


    So it is and it isn't. Obama fits social democracy like a glove, and since many consider social democracy modern socialism, he is therefore a socialist to many. Redistribution is pretty much the flagship of modern state socialism, also.
    No, it's not. But rather than delineate from Marx's major works - and limited therein in respects to specific political structures - on the subject of the politicization of public capital (Private Property and Communism, Capital [particularly the III edition] and Preface to a Contribution of the Critique of Political Capital) I chose Wikipedia - assuming your knowledge level.

    However, if you want me to describe all the ways in which you are completely incorrect and misinterpreting Socialist Doctrine, I can! I'm not really afforded that opportunity too often on BB Forums.

    Let me speak with brevity here: You are wrong. Obama is not a Socialist, not even close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, it's not. But rather than delineate from Marx's major works - and limited therein in respects to specific political structures - on the subject of the politicization of public capital (Private Property and Communism, Capital [particularly the III edition] and Preface to a Contribution of the Critique of Political Capital) I chose Wikipedia - assuming your knowledge level.

    However, if you want me to describe all the ways in which you are completely incorrect and misinterpreting Socialist Doctrine, I can! I'm not really afforded that opportunity too often on BB Forums.

    Let me speak with brevity here: You are wrong. Obama is not a Socialist, not even close.
    Give me your address. I have a 45 page seminar paper on how Obama is a modern socialist and a poster child for social democracy.

    I wouldn't mind you explaining to me, however, how Obama isn't a supporter of social democracy and therefore a socialist TO SOME PEOPLE. Always interesting hearing other angles. I can obviously see to myself what the major reasons are that he isn't a classical socialist so you don't need to go there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Give me your address. I have a 45 page seminar paper on how Obama is a modern socialist and a poster child for social democracy.

    I wouldn't mind you explaining to me, however, how Obama isn't a supporter of social democracy and therefore a socialist TO SOME PEOPLE. Always interesting hearing other angles. I can obviously see to myself what the major reasons are that he isn't a classical socialist so you don't need to go there.
    Ooh, please do! After we compare E-Penises, I can send you several hundred, dry pages of Marxist dialogue I completed for my Honors Thesis and Degree! Please, one 45 page paper is not impressive nor intimidating; you could have written a book, but you are still missing the fundamental premise: Social Democracy is not Socialism. Further, the entire slant of the U.S., Political Spectrum is to the relative "right". Norway, Finland, Canada, these are 'Social Democracies'. Even the most 'leftist' American, major elected official is considered conservative by these rubrics.

    However, after I read the 45 page paper, I can continuing explaining to you how Social Democracy and Socialism are independent, though interrelated political idioms; specifically, the privatization of capital within Social Democracy automatically precludes it from being considered "Socialist": And, therein, any practitioner identifying him and/or herself with that idiom is necessarily not Socialist, either.

    If you cannot find it within yourself to separate Socialism from Social Democracy, so be it.
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    Where did I say they were the same? I might have forgotten that I wrote that somewhere. I didn't mean to mention a 45 page paper to be intimidating either, I was honestly offering it to you.

    Ps- as a bonus, did you know Barack Obama was a marxist activist in college and that he has publicly campaigned for bernie sanders in recent years? Or maybe how he attended several DSA functions and fundraisers while he was living in Chicago?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    Where did I say they were the same? I might have forgotten that I wrote that somewhere. I didn't mean to mention a 45 page paper to be intimidating either, I was honestly offering it to you.

    Ps- as a bonus, did you know Barack Obama was a marxist activist in college and that he has publicly campaigned for bernie sanders in recent years?
    Your exact words:

    Oh and about the Obama comment, yeah, he is a socialist
    You then went on to delineate your position on his Social Democratic stance. Very ambiguous. So, do you think he is a Social Democrat or a Socialist?
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    I thought I said it here
    I wouldn't mind you explaining to me, however, how Obama isn't a supporter of social democracy and therefore a socialist TO SOME PEOPLE.
    and

    since many consider social democracy modern socialism, he is therefore a socialist to many
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    I thought I said it here


    and
    Or, in other words - After I mentioned Social Democracy and Socialism are not one in the same, you changed your position. Your original statement was that Obama is/was a Socialist; with no mention, you then switched it. Got it.

    Obama is a Social Democrat to certain degrees, though not in others; unequivocally however, he is not a Socialist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    So, do you think he is a Social Democrat or a Socialist?

    I consider them to be the same thing on many levels. I have said I don't consider him to be a traditional socialist, but still a socialist.

    and as I have said before, many people consider social democracy to be a form of socialism. Simply because you believe it isn't doesn't make it untrue. There are many out there who think it is. With that said there are obviously major differences between the two that make Obama far from a socialist in the classical/traditional/marxist view, and there are obviously plenty of people out there that don't believe social democracy has anything to do with socialism. But you must admit, as I see you have, that they do share some framework.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Or, in other words - After I mentioned Social Democracy and Socialism are not one in the same, you changed your position. Your original statement was that Obama is/was a Socialist; with no mention, you then switched it. Got it.

    Obama is a Social Democrat to certain degrees, though not in others; unequivocally however, he is not a Socialist.
    No, I didn't change my position. I still think he is a socialist as I explained, but since you were pointing out how social democracy is not the same as socialism I tried to explain how I and others believe it is, or at least closely related, and therefore he is a socialist.
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