WTF is wrong with my arms?
- 05-10-2009, 05:49 PM
I've had people tell me hundreds of times over the last couple of years that incline presses are for useless due to it being a movement that compromises anterior deltoid utilization and the pec, they don't believe you CAN target an upper pec, but I disagree.
When I look in the mirror, I see well developed chest with a flat upper chest where the line that is suppose to separate the pecs disappears directly before the upper portion, the severity of an underdeveloped chest is noted by my own posture and I've been training long enough to know it isn't necessarily an insecurity but the effectiveness of a bench press alone isn't enough to develop my whole chest. Therefore, I've avoided this and further developed the upper chest by performing incline presses.
If someone has a natural genetic outline, then sure, just work with bench presses and they'll grow, but no one is the same and different exercises help different people. So arguing over which movements are "useless" is a complete newbie discussion.
- 05-10-2009, 06:04 PM
The last 3 weeks i have focused on a heavy compound 5x5 set up with 3 days of squats and deads in the middle. On the 300 pound bench comment about wanting a video, when i was on a 7 month cruise in the gulf a few months ago all i did was 100 pound dumbell press and hammer strength machines so i do have alot of power in my chest. Next time i do a 1rm i will try to tape it but i lift on base and i dont know if they allow it. I think i could get up more cause i did get up 285 3 times clean with no bounce off. On the 225 dead lifts, i never done them until i started this run. Now im getting up 285 5x4 and 315 on the last one. Ive only done them for 3 weeks so it should go up in a month or so.
- 05-10-2009, 06:22 PM
05-10-2009, 08:02 PM
05-10-2009, 08:06 PM
your right me and you have very similar builds, same height, same weight. except you do a lot more weight than me. but my arms look way bigger than yours. your strength definately is a notch above mine. so with that being said, your arms must be underdeveloped because I dont even work mine out and they are bigger than yours.
05-10-2009, 08:22 PM
I have a cousin that is 6'1" and weighs about 170, people swear up and down he is bigger than me just due to his natural genetic build and frame, I'm 5'7" and 15 pounds heavier than he is and still look smaller, I can out bench him by about 150 pounds too.
The moral is different people will look different at different sizes.
05-10-2009, 08:48 PM
5 years ago when i started to play around with lifting i was 130 with a bit of a gut. That must have something to do with it to.
05-10-2009, 08:51 PM
05-10-2009, 08:58 PM
05-10-2009, 09:11 PM
05-10-2009, 09:13 PM
No BS on the numbers bro. Why would i do that if im asking for help with my slacking areas?
Buster how many times can you rep 225 on the flat bench and incline???
05-10-2009, 10:41 PM
05-10-2009, 10:56 PM
Navy I'm about the same size as you and Buster (in lean body weight atleast) and roughly close to the same strength, I can bench 225 for 5 reps on a good day for flat bench, probably couldn't for a single on incline.
05-10-2009, 11:04 PM
05-10-2009, 11:27 PM
I had 225 x 7 when I weighed 204; however, I did a slight cut to reduce the bodyfat and now I usually do 4 reps with 225 (when I include 225) onto my first set.
It's good having guys your size/strength around, I hate joining a forum and being an outcast. Everyone is 6'3" and weigh +250.
05-10-2009, 11:37 PM
05-11-2009, 12:01 AM
05-11-2009, 12:07 AM
If there wasn't a way to separate size and strength, then there wouldn't be two types of hypertrophy - myofibrillar hypertrophy (strength) and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (size).
05-11-2009, 12:28 AM
H0other, you took my words and mis-used them. I said most often dont care about form. Like GOOD isolated curls rather than body bending big shot ones. Its a different type of mentality and lifting experience.
I think it was funny how you say you get to say what you want blah blah blah its your right, but tell others their opinion is useless, they're dumb, etc etc....
You think youre a bigshot and **** but really you seem to be an ignorant prick. to say you'd be 140lbs at 20%+ or whatever just shows you always will think youre the man, even though your not.
I agree with Gymrat that it can help to go to focus on compound movements to help etc etc, and people are different so you do havbe to take your time to find what works for you.
Ill reserve my further comments till i see the bum whos running his mouth and decide wether or not he even knows what he's talking about. From what i hear/read, you dont look like it.
05-11-2009, 01:46 AM
I know i'm not the man, I commend people who are bigger/stronger/smarter than me. However, that is not you. If you read my comments in this thread instead than getting mad about me saying your picture looks like it was taken inside a tanning bed(which it does, and I got rep's for mentioning by multiple people) then you would see that i've agreed with many people in this thread and it has came together to the conclusion that different things work for different people.
Show me what shows that I dont know what i'm talking about .. I'd love to see it. I know I dont know everything and still learn EVERY DAY whether it be from people in my gym who I respect or people on here who have things I can learn from. Yes, I am VERY opinionated. Yes, I am sure it does piss people off(sorry orangutan, but glad we straightened it out). But by me being a pain in the ass it helps me and other people learn and also livens things up. I hope you are not taking the things said on this forum that serious, I know i'm not.
05-11-2009, 01:49 AM
The one thing i've taken from reading on DC Training more so than anything else is this. (The quote and numbers are not exactly what Dante said but I am too lazy to go look for the exact quote, this is the gist of it)
"You dont see people who are benching 400 pounds, squatting 600 pounds and deadlifting 700 pounds complaining about quads that arent growing or the size of there chest/bi's/back."
This quote alone has convinced me to go heavy in almost every exercise I do and to continue to strive to get stronger.
05-11-2009, 08:17 AM
05-11-2009, 01:09 PM
Never said you needed to lift those numbers for growth. I never even said you had to EVER get those numbers. The point of that quote is to say to keep getting stronger and stronger and with the strength size will come. I dont even do DC lifting anymore, I incorporate a bunch of different things in my workout. But I do respect Dante and DC Training greatly. Pic's will be up this week.
05-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Gaining size is completely in the nutrition, it has less to do with the weight, reps, routine, etc. but more in the nutrition. Someone isn't required to get bigger just because they're getting stronger. If you kept to a low calorie diet and you lifted heavy in the meantime. Of course you'd get stronger, but instead of producing new muscle, your body will begin to use the muscle it has more efficiently (think lightweight powerlifters here).
All over the internet (youtube) there are videos of guys half my size putting up double what I can. Simply because they have a more efficient CNS and a less efficient diet. Adding weight to the bar is essential to getting bigger, but getting big is in the calorie surplus, the "type" of big that you get is in the calorie surplus, as well. For example eat fat and expect to get fat, eat lean, healthy, nutritious foods and expect to stay lean, healthy and nutritious.
If getting stronger automatically meant getting bigger, then our size would be dictated by how much weight we could move alone.
05-11-2009, 01:26 PM
If you "lifted heavy but were in a calorie deficit" without PH or AAS you most likely wouldn't get stronger but even if you did you'd be recomping(building muscle/losing fat). I think you are combining fat and muscle into one group.
I'm so tired of arguing about this, I didnt say that it was true 99% of the time nor 49% of the time. I said I liked that quote from DC and I still do agree with it.
05-11-2009, 01:33 PM
and bigger means more Lean Body Mass not fat.
and getting bigger doesn't depend on any ONE thing. It depends on nutrition, sleep, lifting hard, not excessively drinking alcohol, changing routines in the gym.... and on and on and on. That's why people who are really serious about bodybuilding/powerlifting I believe deserve the utmost of respect. As my signature says "bodybuilding is not a hobby, it's a way of life."
05-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Lifting heavy in a calorie deficient happens all the time, go to a gym and look at those 17 year olds that are getting stronger but eats what they want and when they want. Some guys age +30 still do it, I even gained strength in a cutting phase once. Your body will adapt and become better to something it's supplemented to, especially lifting heavy weights, take construction workers for example and coal miners, they are all strong but most of them typically don't have a calorie surplus diet.
05-11-2009, 01:55 PM
We're not going to agree on this topic. But that's fine, we don't need to.
My perspective on what you just said --
The 17 year olds that are getting stronger are mainly getting stronger because they are new to lifting weights and you can gain alot of strength just off of getting your muscle memory down on doing the exercises they are doing.
Construction workers -- Come on now. I'm training one right now at the gym and he by no means is strong. Most of the stronger ones are the fat ones with a 4 foot wide beer belly, and how do youget a 4 foot wide belly? CALORIE SURPLUS. Anyone over 8%bf lives most of there days in a calorie surplus. People don't realize how easy it is to eat more than maintenence calories until they write down EVERYTHING they eat.
05-11-2009, 01:58 PM
05-11-2009, 02:02 PM
Construction workers are typically strong guys, most anyway, but that situation can be read as stereotypical and like saying "basketball players are tall". The lightweight powerlifters and youtube lifters that can bench more weight than me yet are smaller than me is a sterling example of how a calorie surplus isn't necessarily needed to get stronger. It's needed to get bigger, but not stronger.
If stronger meant bigger, then someone stronger than you would automatically be bigger.
05-11-2009, 02:05 PM
05-11-2009, 02:07 PM
05-11-2009, 02:10 PM
doing a great job gymrat.
I dont have the inclination nor the energy to sustain an argument only to reiterate all the valid points you have made.
Reps are coming your way.
05-11-2009, 02:11 PM
05-11-2009, 02:12 PM
I'll take your word for it and use it for comparision. On your myspace it has a pic of you benching 255, so lets say we only compare you to people with the same LBM as you. Even at 10%bf that'd be comparing again 165 pounds. 255 @ 165 is commendable not going to get a negative comment from anyone. You said you've seen people do double you at half your size, well even at your size how many people do oyu know at 165@10%bf benching 500? None. How many people do you know with 230pounds of LBM @ 10% (253pds) benching 500? ALOT of people. Size (LBM) DOES make a HUGE difference in how much weight is lifted. Thats my opinion at least.
05-11-2009, 02:16 PM
It was a figure of speech with the double my bench press, although I have seen guys much smaller than me (160 pounds) bench pressing 315 and etc. I saw one kid that weighed 175 pounds bench pressing 405 for a single. Surely because his CNS is more efficient. He wasn't that big of a kid, not that he was small, just wasn't what you'd expect when you hear of someone bench pressing 405.
05-11-2009, 02:19 PM
A person 230 pounds will usually be able to handle more weight than someone whom weighs 160 seeing he has a more efficient bone structure and his joints would be able to take more optimal weight.
05-11-2009, 02:19 PM
So you saw ONE kid at 175 pounds benching 405. How many people at 225 could you find benching 405? Sure there are genetic monsters who can put up some crazy weights and noone knows how, but for the mainstream weightlifter, LBM is what puts up these big numbers.
05-11-2009, 02:22 PM
More efficient bone structure? Joints? How does muscle add anything to your bone structure or joints? Smaller doesnt mean your not in the calorie surplus either. There are factors you are not including such as how long you've lifted. I was 150 pounds 4 years ago eating 4000 calories a day so finally I wouldn't be small for the first time in my life. Alot of it is consistency and time.
05-11-2009, 02:23 PM
Lightweight powerlifters alone are sterling examples of how you can get strong without the calorie surplus. Even a calorie surplus alone doesn't mean you will gain acceptable hypertrophy, your rest, routine, source of training, etc. will all factor in how much total size you gain. Form is extremely important, too.
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