AnaBeta Elite on CBL

[MaXopA]

Hi guys,

I've been reading these forums for quite a while now and decided to sign-up myself (even though my English is quite embarrassing as I'm a kraut lol) since you provide such a great extent of useful information.

I was wondering if anybody has already tried combining carb-backloading with Anabeta Elite. As stated on the product's description, one is supposed to eat lots of carbs throughout the day to get the most out of it, whereas carb-backloading allows them only during the post-workout window. For the rest of the day CBL requires an ultra-low-carb regimen with high-fat/high-protein.

Would it be advisable to change to another form of nutrition to suit Anabeta Elite, or can I link it up with carb-backloading without worrying about suboptimal results?

Thanks in advance for your feedback

 

[kbayne]

I have never done CBL but you should be fine with AnaBeta Elite and CBL.

 

[bolt10]

You should be good to go combining the two.

 

[peepingyoda]

Why are you supposed to eat lots of carbs during the day with ABE? I got 2 bottles coming and I'm still cutting.

 

[MaXopA]

Why are you supposed to eat lots of carbs during the day with ABE? I got 2 bottles coming and I'm still cutting.

are you following a particular nutritional protocol?

however, this is what PES makes clear in the product's description (the part in bold is key here):

FEED To Your Goals - Harness the POWER of Anabolism
The first thing most will notice is an increased demand for ALL nutrients. This is due to AnaBeta Elite putting your body at a high level of anabolism. With increased anabolism you will have an increase in hunger -- don't freak out-- this is a sign of increased protein synthesis and an increase in muscle glycogen storage; two common properties of anabolics. You need to feed the demanding muscles towards your goals. You need to be eating protein, carbs, and BCAAs. Your muscles will be demanding to grow, so let them! Feed towards your goals.

 

[kbayne]

Why are you supposed to eat lots of carbs during the day with ABE? I got 2 bottles coming and I'm still cutting.

You do not necessarily have to eat a ton of carbs, but eating carbs around your ABE doses can be beneficial.

 

[peepingyoda]

You do not necessarily have to eat a ton of carbs, but eating carbs around your ABE doses can be beneficial.

Damn, I was looking for an excuse to pound some carbs. I have was doing 50ish grams per day and I've recently bumped this closer to 100 gm. I'm stalling out so I will have to add a carb refeed one day per week at least.

I have to be really careful. I did 15 pounds with old ABE and ArA in 2 months, but it wasn't all that lean (Was eating 200+ carbs a day.. and not the cleanest. Damn you fried chicken and chinese buffet). I've just cut back down in the last couple months with some nice lean tissue kept. I am probably sitting around 10-12% bf right now. I was going to cut a little more before lean bulking/recomp. I am currently loving Lean Extreme with Alphamine. I still have a month left of these and my two bottles of ABE on the way. I may just overlap them.

 

[kbayne]

Damn, I was looking for an excuse to pound some carbs. I have was doing 50ish grams per day and I've recently bumped this closer to 100 gm. I'm stalling out so I will have to add a carb refeed one day per week at least. I have to be really careful. I did 15 pounds with old ABE and ArA in 2 months, but it wasn't all that lean (Was eating 200+ carbs a day.. and not the cleanest. Damn you fried chicken and chinese buffet). I've just cut back down in the last couple months with some nice lean tissue kept. I am probably sitting around 10-12% bf right now. I was going to cut a little more before lean bulking/recomp. I am currently loving Lean Extreme with Alphamine. I still have a month left of these and my two bottles of ABE on the way. I may just overlap them.

I wasn't saying you can't pound some carbs with ABE. When I run ABE, I always seem to tolerate carbs much better and the carb count is pretty high. One thing to consider is getting in the majority of your carbs around your ABE dosing.

 

[chedapalooza]

At OP, I do IF, so I'm essentially carb back loading as well. U will love anabeta elite with your approach. Nothing to worry about IMO

 

[bdcc]

Was my answer on Facebook and via PM not enough? lol

 

[chedapalooza]

Was my answer on Facebook and via PM not enough? lol

Oh idk I was just feeling chatty. As u can tell from my slew of posts.

 

[MaXopA]

Oh idk I was just feeling chatty. As u can tell from my slew of posts.

He was addressing me, I guess lol

I started this thread before noticing how many of you actually are quite good PES experts. Anyway, thanks for your replies guys, I will give Anabeta Elite and Erase Pro a go, maybe complemented with some DAA, what do you think?

 

[kbayne]

He was addressing me, I guess lol I started this thread before noticing how many of you actually are quite good PES experts. Anyway, thanks for your replies guys, I will give Anabeta Elite and Erase Pro a go, maybe complemented with some DAA, what do you think?

I think that's an excellent choice for a stack.

 

[MaXopA]

That's great news. How would you guys split ABE/EP/DAA doses considering the following plan? The first half of the day till I workout is ultra-low-carb with a maximum of 800 calories in order to enhance fat-burning. After training I pig out on high-glycemic carbs.

10.00 PM to 8.00 AM: Fasting

8.00 AM: Breakfast-Shake (6g MCT-Oil, 10g Whey Isolate, Coffee [about 300mg caffeine])

9.00 AM: SNACK (16g fat - 16g protein - no carbs)

1.00 PM: LUNCH (27g fat - 24g protein - no carbs)

5:00 PM: PRE-WO-SHAKE (12g MCT-Oil, 20g Whey Isolate, Coffee (about 300mg caffeine)

5:30 PM: Workout

7:00 PM: PWO-SHAKE (52g Maltodextrin, 25g Whey Hydrolysate, 30g Whey Isolate, 15g Micellar Casein, 5g L-Leucine, 5g Creatine, 150mg Caffeine)

7:30 PM: 1st PWO-meal (118g carbs - 55g protein - 18g fat)

8:30 PM: 2nd PWO-meal (76g carbs - 40g protein - 3g fat)

9:30 PM: 3rd PWO-meal (88g carbs - 47g protein - 36g fat)

TOTALS: 3.492 Calories - 337g Carbs - 114g Fat - 271g Protein

I've already read DAA has no particular directions, just take 3g at any time of the day, but I'd like to know your opinion about dosing/timing ABE & EP, since my nutritional protocol is a bit weird.

 

[kbayne]

Since aren't getting in any carbs pre-workout, I would go like this:

ABE: 2 prior to your first meal post workout (not your shake). 2 prior to your next meal or 1 prior to meal three and 1 prior to meal four.

Erase Pro: Dose in the morning.

 

[MaXopA]

Since aren't getting in any carbs pre-workout, I would go like this:

ABE: 2 prior to your first meal post workout (not your shake). 2 prior to your next meal or 1 prior to meal three and 1 prior to meal four.

Erase Pro: Dose in the morning.

This seems to be a sound approach, thanks man! Just to be sure: when you say "prior to", do you mean taking the pill just ahead of the meal, or something like half an hour before?

 

[kbayne]

This seems to be a sound approach, thanks man! Just to be sure: when you say "prior to", do you mean taking the pill just ahead of the meal, or something like half an hour before?

I dose mine roughly 20 min prior to the meal to reap the GDA benefits.

 

[MaXopA]

I dose mine roughly 20 min prior to the meal to reap the GDA benefits.

I apologize for my ignorance but the only thing popping up in my mind as to GDA is "guideline daily amount" lol

is it a substance included in ABE?

 

[kbayne]

I apologize for my ignorance but the only thing popping up in my mind as to GDA is "guideline daily amount" lol is it a substance included in ABE?

HAHAHAHA no way. That was hilarious.

GDA = Glucose Disposal Agent

 

[MaXopA]

HAHAHAHA no way. That was hilarious.

GDA = Glucose Disposal Agent

oh right thanks dude! haha... it must be related to the absorption of carbs, I guess. Will have to do some research about that, cause it sounds quite interesting and I really welcome everything optimizing muscle growth

 

[chedapalooza]

I dose mine roughly 20 min prior to the meal to reap the GDA benefits.

I always took anabeta with food like at the same time (original) not elite. I was unaware there are gda effects from analycus... Or is it from something else in the NEW elite?

 

[kbayne]

I always took anabeta with food like at the same time (original) not elite. I was unaware there are gda effects from analycus... Or is it from something else in the NEW elite?

I've always taken AB and ABE pre meal. Anacyclus has GDA properties. The new elite with the new additions will give it additional GDA properties.

 

[MaXopA]

I don't want to contradict you, but I found two older posts by "Nattydisaster" and "Kevinhy" in which they claim the following:

some people think [Anabeta Elite] its a GDA product, maybe working through GLUT4, but research suggests this is likely not the case. The glycogen retention people feel is from the anabolic state of the body.

Is AnaBeta just an insulin mimetic?
Not at all. The reason people at first assume it may just be an insulin mimetic is because AnaBeta increases the users level of anabolism. When this happens your body increases protein synthesis and muscle glycogen storage in skeletal muscle. Since these processes are now increased, your body will demand more nutrients. This demand will sometimes give users a hungry and/or low blood sugar feeling. You must feed your body with protein, carbs, BCAAs, etc to get the most out of this. Do NOT just give it carbs thinking AnaBeta is just an insulin mimetic product, because it is not. Feed yourself towards your goals.

maybe some scientific data about anacyclus could be helpful to fully understand its benefits

 

[kbayne]

I wasn't implying all Anabeta or Anabeta Elite were GDA supplements. I was simply stating it has some GDA properties.

 

[RecompMan]

I do backloading as well


Here's my advice;

20-25g carb per 10 -12 sets (75-100reps). And do it intra workout

Empty 1-2 anabeta into the mix. Along with any other GDA or whatever you want (some taste like ass recompadrol included, but slin by lg or regular ala is not to bad) with some aminos

Drink it during your workout, and then when you get home eat your protein fat meal (30-60 min upon cessation of training).

I do this BC I train In the morning tho. Just an example

 

[MaXopA]

I do backloading as well
Here's my advice;

20-25g carb per 10 -12 sets (75-100reps). And do it intra workout

Empty 1-2 anabeta into the mix. Along with any other GDA or whatever you want (some taste like ass recompadrol included, but slin by lg or regular ala is not to bad) with some aminos

Drink it during your workout, and then when you get home eat your protein fat meal (30-60 min upon cessation of training).

I do this BC I train In the morning tho. Just an example

Nice to hear I'm not the only one doing CBL. Does your intra-shake also apply for very short training sessions? I usually keep the workout within a 1 hour window since I'm doing SuperSets. As I can only train in the evening because of work, my backload is chock-full of carbs/protein and little fat. Would your dosing/timing suggestion stay the same in this case?

 

[RecompMan]

Nice to hear I'm not the only one doing CBL. Does your intra-shake also apply for very short training sessions? I usually keep the workout within a 1 hour window since I'm doing SuperSets. As I can only train in the evening because of work, my backload is chock-full of carbs/protein and little fat. Would your dosing/timing suggestion stay the same in this case?

I'd cut my intra carbs to just 20-30 just to get your bodies enzymes working for optimal glucose absorption after doing low carb.

With that said. Protein fats in the morning, either pre workout carbs at 25g or intra carbs at 25g, the. Post workout eat

 

[mr.cooper69]

To clarify it increases glycogen retention and accelerates clearance of blood glucose in response to a meal. If you take it without food, it won't act as a GDA (as opposed to, say, Na-r-ala)

 

[RecompMan]

To clarify it increases glycogen retention and accelerates clearance of blood glucose in response to a meal. If you take it without food, it won't act as a GDA (as opposed to, say, Na-r-ala)

Boom!

Exactly.

 

[ma70]

To clarify it increases glycogen retention and accelerates clearance of blood glucose in response to a meal. If you take it without food, it won't act as a GDA (as opposed to, say, Na-r-ala)

So it would be okay to take Anabeta fasted, pre workout?

 

[RecompMan]

So it would be okay to take Anabeta fasted, pre workout?

I don't see why not, I personally feel you can get a lot out of it with intra carbs tho.

Use it's MOAs to your advantage

 

[bolt10]

So it would be okay to take Anabeta fasted, pre workout?

Yep. When I am fasted I do that with no problems.

 

[MaXopA]

I'd cut my intra carbs to just 20-30 just to get your bodies enzymes working for optimal glucose absorption after doing low carb.

With that said. Protein fats in the morning, either pre workout carbs at 25g or intra carbs at 25g, the. Post workout eat

Thank you, but at the moment I'd rather go without intra-carbs, cause I should better keep an eye on my current body fat. But how does the following solution sound to you?
Since the first carbs of the day I take are included in my PWO-shake (52g maltodextrin) I am considering taking it straight after training, then waiting 15 minutes and having the first 2 anabeta capsules, which could potentially "benefit" from the already circulating carbs. After another 15 minutes (GDA?) I would have my first carb-backload with solid food and then spread the other 2 pills on my two remaining meals. Does this theory make any sense to you?

To clarify it increases glycogen retention and accelerates clearance of blood glucose in response to a meal. If you take it without food, it won't act as a GDA (as opposed to, say, Na-r-ala)

by "food" do you mean any kind of nutrients, even a shake, or just solid foods?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Thank you, but at the moment I'd rather go without intra-carbs, cause I should better keep an eye on my current body fat. But how does the following solution sound to you?
Since the first carbs of the day I take are included in my PWO-shake (52g maltodextrin) I am considering taking it straight after training, then waiting 15 minutes and having the first 2 anabeta capsules, which could potentially "benefit" from the already circulating carbs. After another 15 minutes (GDA?) I would have my first carb-backload with solid food and then spread the other 2 pills on my two remaining meals. Does this theory make any sense to you?



by "food" do you mean any kind of nutrients, even a shake, or just solid foods?

I mean nutrients

 

[cheru2016]

That's great news. How would you guys split ABE/EP/DAA doses considering the following plan? The first half of the day till I workout is ultra-low-carb with a maximum of 800 calories in order to enhance fat-burning. After training I pig out on high-glycemic carbs.

10.00 PM to 8.00 AM: Fasting

8.00 AM: Breakfast-Shake (6g MCT-Oil, 10g Whey Isolate, Coffee [about 300mg caffeine])

9.00 AM: SNACK (16g fat - 16g protein - no carbs)

1.00 PM: LUNCH (27g fat - 24g protein - no carbs)

5:00 PM: PRE-WO-SHAKE (12g MCT-Oil, 20g Whey Isolate, Coffee (about 300mg caffeine)

5:30 PM: Workout

7:00 PM: PWO-SHAKE (52g Maltodextrin, 25g Whey Hydrolysate, 30g Whey Isolate, 15g Micellar Casein, 5g L-Leucine, 5g Creatine, 150mg Caffeine)

7:30 PM: 1st PWO-meal (118g carbs - 55g protein - 18g fat)

8:30 PM: 2nd PWO-meal (76g carbs - 40g protein - 3g fat)

9:30 PM: 3rd PWO-meal (88g carbs - 47g protein - 36g fat)

TOTALS: 3.492 Calories - 337g Carbs - 114g Fat - 271g Protein

I've already read DAA has no particular directions, just take 3g at any time of the day, but I'd like to know your opinion about dosing/timing ABE & EP, since my nutritional protocol is a bit weird.

I'm surprised that nobody has picked up on the amount of caffeine in this diet.

Your posts indicate that you're current goals are both to gain lean mass and to cut back your body-fat and whilst caffeine is a very effective tool when cutting, I'm concerned that high dosages such as that described above could eventually lead to adrenal fatigue somewhere down the track (halting or even reversing your fat-loss), not to mention the myriad of other health issues that can potentially arise (kidneys etc).

This is just my 2c and I'm only chiming in because I don't want you to cause undue harm to your health.

Cheers mate.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Caffeine possesses no ability to cause adrenal insufficiency. Caffeine studies (lifetime studies of high consumption) show improved health and cognition, and coffee, from which most of his caffeine comes from, shows even more population benefits

 

[cheru2016]

Interesting indeed.

What are your thoughts on the effects of high caffeine consumption and heart health?

i.e. stress related to elevated heart rate over a duration of time.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Coffee actually protects against heart disease when consumed at high doses chronically (4 cups + daily): http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/early/2012/06/26/CIRCHEARTFAILURE.112.967299.abstract. Smaller amounts of coffee work too, just not as well. There is, however, a 3% increase in incidence of heart disease if you consume 11 cups of coffee a day...which is downright absurd to begin with

 

[cheru2016]

Coffee actually protects against heart disease when consumed at high doses chronically (4 cups + daily): http://circheartfailure.ahajournals.org/content/early/2012/06/26/CIRCHEARTFAILURE.112.967299.abstract. Smaller amounts of coffee work too, just not as well. There is, however, a 3% increase in incidence of heart disease if you consume 11 cups of coffee a day...which is downright absurd to begin with

You're certainly on the money regarding the protective qualities of caffeine against heart disease, but I'm thinking more of the increased risk of heart attack . 11 standard cups of coffee equates roughly to 1,650mg of caffeine which is, as you say, absurd. The OP is taking in approximately 750mg of caffeine (according to his own calculations) which is nowhere near the 11 cup mark, however even 1,000mg of caffeine per day is very high, don't you think?

 

[mr.cooper69]

What is heart disease? In the U.S., it's chiefly what you just said: heart attack, or risk thereof. So your first sentence doesn't make much sense.

1000mg is daily is high, but is it high enough for me to agree with your initial post about adrenal fatigue/kidney damage? Not quite

 

[MaXopA]

Well, actually I'm following what Kiefer recommends in his Carb-Backloading Book. For people being on "Strength Accumulation Protocol" the dose even exceeds the 1000mg threshold.

 

[MaXopA]

halting or even reversing your fat-loss

thanks for your reflection bro. However, why should a higher dose of caffeine hinder fatty oxidation, did you read any studies concerning this topic?

 

[cheru2016]

thanks for your reflection bro. However, why should a higher dose of caffeine hinder fatty oxidation, did you read any studies concerning this topic?

I was approaching it from the angle that high caffeine consumption can lead to adrenal fatigue which in turn can result in weight gain.
However if what Cooper said is correct and caffeine doesn't actually cause adrenal insufficiency, I stand corrected. I'm still not entirely convinced though as I have heard and read about the opposite occurring on many occasions, however I am by no means qualified to recommend my word as gospel. It's certainly worth looking into though, if you have the time/interest.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I was approaching it from the angle that high caffeine consumption can lead to adrenal fatigue which in turn can result in weight gain.
However if what Cooper said is correct and caffeine doesn't actually cause adrenal insufficiency, I stand corrected. I'm still not entirely convinced though as I have heard and read about the opposite occurring on many occasions, however I am by no means qualified to recommend my word as gospel. It's certainly worth looking into though, if you have the time/interest.

People "think" they have adrenal fatigue, but here's what they are actually experiencing. Suffice to say, it is largely the uneducated crowd (read: people without a science background, not unintelligent people) who think they have adrenal fatigue because it's tough for them to grasp the complexities of the body.

"Adrenal fatigue is 99% fiction, and based on the concept of tolerance. When you supplement with caffeine, the body upregulates hepatic CYP enzymes which are oriented at deactivating caffeine. Naturally, in order to produce an equivalent effect, you have to supplement with more and more caffeine. Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. If you decrease your dose of caffeine, or become abstinent, you will have a withdrawl period which is simply due to the latter mechanism. Eventually, the adenosine receptors downregulate and you return to baseline.

Fitness "experts" don't understand biology/pharmacology, and blame "adrenal fatigue." Others are trying to make money off of peoples ignorance (i.e. adrenal fatigue supplements).

Adrenal insufficiency is something different. The only way to produce adrenal medulla insufficiency is to physically denervate the organ. You can produce temporary adrenal medulla atrophy with absence of leptin, cortisol, or corticotropin. The latter two can be induced with exogenous supplementation of glucocorticoids, although the main effect will be directed towards the adrenal cortex (i.e. actual adrenal insufficiency).

New Fact Sheets Dispel Myths of Adrenal Fatigue and Wilson
Adrenal fatigue: Is there such a thing? - Mayo Clinic"


The adenosine receptors in the above excerpt are the receptors that modulate wakefulness. When they get activated, they block the reticular activating system (RAS; responsible for arousal/alertness), which induces sleep. So you use caffeine for a long time, these adenosine receptors increase in number, and then you go off caffeine. You now have a ton of adenosine receptors that are no longer blocked, and the natural feeling you get is a "loss of energy; fatigue." This has nothing to do with adrenal glands.

 

[mr.cooper69]

That's enough science for today, if you don't believe me, I can't help you any further

 

[cheru2016]

That's enough science for today, if you don't believe me, I can't help you any further

Awesome stuff - reading through it now.

Thank you for the information mate.

 

[chedapalooza]

Thanks coop good info

 

[RecompMan]

Now coop, what about adrenalin resistance caused by high circulating levels of leptin..?

 

[cheru2016]

In for more info!

 

[Mikeyjd]

People "think" they have adrenal fatigue, but here's what they are actually experiencing. Suffice to say, it is largely the uneducated crowd (read: people without a science background, not unintelligent people) who think they have adrenal fatigue because it's tough for them to grasp the complexities of the body.

"Adrenal fatigue is 99% fiction, and based on the concept of tolerance. When you supplement with caffeine, the body upregulates hepatic CYP enzymes which are oriented at deactivating caffeine. Naturally, in order to produce an equivalent effect, you have to supplement with more and more caffeine. Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. If you decrease your dose of caffeine, or become abstinent, you will have a withdrawl period which is simply due to the latter mechanism. Eventually, the adenosine receptors downregulate and you return to baseline.

Fitness "experts" don't understand biology/pharmacology, and blame "adrenal fatigue." Others are trying to make money off of peoples ignorance (i.e. adrenal fatigue supplements).

Adrenal insufficiency is something different. The only way to produce adrenal medulla insufficiency is to physically denervate the organ. You can produce temporary adrenal medulla atrophy with absence of leptin, cortisol, or corticotropin. The latter two can be induced with exogenous supplementation of glucocorticoids, although the main effect will be directed towards the adrenal cortex (i.e. actual adrenal insufficiency).

New Fact Sheets Dispel Myths of Adrenal Fatigue and Wilson
Adrenal fatigue: Is there such a thing? - Mayo Clinic"


The adenosine receptors in the above excerpt are the receptors that modulate wakefulness. When they get activated, they block the reticular activating system (RAS; responsible for arousal/alertness), which induces sleep. So you use caffeine for a long time, these adenosine receptors increase in number, and then you go off caffeine. You now have a ton of adenosine receptors that are no longer blocked, and the natural feeling you get is a "loss of energy; fatigue." This has nothing to do with adrenal glands.

I couldn't have said better, or even close to as good myself. Thanks Coop.