PES ERASE QUESTION

[chrisrob05]

I have read about erase being a great product! What is the active ingredient in this supplement that is the estrogen blocker? How exactly does it work?? Thanks for the info and a great product. I'm wanting to make sure that it has no drug interaction danger.

 

[nattydisaster]

It is an aromatase inhibitor. 1 ingredient

 

[kevinhy]

The active in Erase is Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione. This is a metabolite of 7-oxo, and is shown in literature to have an enzyme affinity similar to exemestane. There are numerous studies on 7-oxo and 7-hydroxy metabolites on their ability to inhibit 11b-hsd. 11b-hsd is the enzyme pathway responsible for converting inactive cortisone into the active cortisol. This means that Erase not only inhibits aromatase (which increases testosterone & reduces estrogen), but also lowers cortisol as well.

 

[TheMeatus101]

Umm, what he said ^ ^ ^

 

[chrisrob05]

I have learned through experience that the old ergopharm (and even the bismark labs) 1-AD seemed to lower estrogen levels on me. I'm thinking erase is the same concept at a lower price. I'm going to try this product out-I have faith in it.......I have read a lot of good reviews about it. Thanks for the info!!

 

[kevinhy]

I have learned through experience that the old ergopharm (and even the bismark labs) 1-AD seemed to lower estrogen levels on me. I'm thinking erase is the same concept at a lower price. I'm going to try this product out-I have faith in it.......I have read a lot of good reviews about it. Thanks for the info!!

I'm not sure how 1-ad would lower estrogen, since its a precursor to 1-testosterone. 1-testosterone isnt an aromatizable androgen but its shown that androgens influence aromatase production in studies. Perhaps you just had a more favorable androgen to estrogen ratio.

Erase works through different mechanisms, but its still a knockout nonetheless. Definitely cost effective too! If you end up trying it im sure you will be overly satisfied.

 

[Rosie Chee]

I have read about erase being a great product! What is the active ingredient in this supplement that is the estrogen blocker? How exactly does it work?? Thanks for the info and a great product. I'm wanting to make sure that it has no drug interaction danger.

Erase is an awesome product for sure!

The active in Erase is 3.7-keto DHEA. See below for information on its mechanism of action:

Regulating Estrogen and Increasing Testosterone via Suicide Aromatase Inhibition: The Role of 3, 7-Keto DHEA:

3, 7-Keto DHEA is a naturally-occurring metabolite of dehydroepiandosterone (DHEA), and is a potent aromatase inhibitor with some very unique qualities. Aromatase is an enzyme that transforms testosterone into estrogen, and the more active aromatase is, the more estrogen will ultimately be present. Therefore, aromatase inhibitors significantly decrease the level of estrogen in the body. This is important as increased estrogen in men can signal the hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) to shut down the release of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH signals the production of luteinizing hormone (LH), which signals the production of testosterone. Therefore, increased estrogen levels can lower endogenous testosterone production (21,29,31).

3, 7-Keto DHEA has demonstrated strong ability to lower estrogen, thus mitigating this effect. It has a high binding affinity (Ki value = 0.22 mM) to the aromatase enzyme, and binds in an irreversible manner, making it a suicide inhibitor of aromatase. Ki Values measure how efficiently a compound binds to its associated receptor. The lower the Ki value; the higher the binding affinity. This inhibition allows for the production of less estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) and allows the user of the compound to maintain a higher level of testosterone; hence improving the Testosterone: Estrogen (T:E) ratio. The mechanism through which aromatase inhibitors raise testosterone is fairly simple; the HPTA senses low levels of estrogen, and because the body seeks to maintain homeostasis (it likes to maintain at least some estrogen, even in men), there is a concurrent increase in the amount of testosterone that is being produced, as a way to compensate for the low estrogen levels. The increased testosterone levels normally will result in increased estrogen since there is no estrogen being produced. Essentially, the brain is tricked into trying to produce more estrogen, so it releases more luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) and subsequently more LH, leading to even higher testosterone levels (20,21-23).

All aromatase inhibitors share this characteristic of positively altering the T:E ratio, and all will raise serum testosterone levels in men, which has been referenced in numerous studies. 3,7-Keto DHEA is comparable in potency to several other commonly available aromatase inhibitors. As explained above, a lower Ki value means higher potency, making it more potent than both Formestane and Exemestane, and very similar to androstentrione (ATD) (31,55).

3,7-Keto DHEA is unique from other commonly used aromatase inhibitors in sports supplements in that it is a natural metabolite of 7-Keto DHEA and it cannot directly bind to the androgen receptor. 3,7-Keto DHEA (like 7-Keto DHEA) also cannot convert to testosterone, estrogen, or progesterone via any type of enzymatic reaction, so by strict definition it cannot in any way be considered a prohormone. This clearly differentiates it from other recently banned products that allow for the direct conversion to a controlled substance in the body (in either in trace amounts or full-scale conversion). This can not occur with 3,7-Keto DHEA, as it is formed naturally in humans from 7-Keto DHEA and can be readily found in humans in the amount of 5-7 ug/day (23-24).

Erase should be used with caution with other products with AI properties or that control cortisol.

As far as prescription medication, if you don't want to ask here about a specific drug you might be using, ask Josh (aka nattydisaster) via PM.

~Rosie~

 

[nattydisaster]

3,7-keto DHEA is the worst way to name the ingredient. Does not even make sense

We use androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione because thats what it is

 

[chrisrob05]

Erase is an awesome product for sure!

The active in Erase is 3.7-keto DHEA. See below for information on its mechanism of action:


Erase should be used with caution with other products with AI properties or that control cortisol.

As far as prescription medication, if you don't want to ask here about a specific drug you might be using, ask Josh (aka nattydisaster) via PM.

~Rosie~

I'm not on any prescription meds or anything that requires a doctor's supervision-I'm just wanting to make sure that it won't interact with any other supps or OTC meds that people use on a daily basis. Sorry for asking such a broad question!

 

[Rosie Chee]

I'm not on any prescription meds or anything that requires a doctor's supervision-I'm just wanting to make sure that it won't interact with any other supps or OTC meds that people use on a daily basis. Sorry for asking such a broad question!

No worries Erase should be fine stacked with other products, although, as I said, "Erase should be used with caution with other products with AI properties or that control cortisol" (really, you don't want to stack Erase with such products at all, and if you do, dosage of one should be a lot lower than recommended).

~Rosie~

 

[AE14]

Great answers by Rosie across the board.

 

[greekgeorge]

from my experience with erase at 3 caps, its a great cort reducer, I get the sides the dry joints which let you know its working as for an AI its ok depending on what you compare it to. I think its a good ai at 4-5 caps a day to say something like aromasin. For ai I like resveratol peoducts.

 

[kevinhy]

from my experience with erase at 3 caps, its a great cort reducer, I get the sides the dry joints which let you know its working as for an AI its ok depending on what you compare it to. I think its a good ai at 4-5 caps a day to say something like aromasin. For ai I like resveratol peoducts.

A lot of people arent trying to emulate the effects of aromasin, but the ability of Erase to perform very closely even at slightly higher doses says a lot for a safe, legal, and DSHEA compliant product. We recommend 3 caps because its the sweet spot for most people, if you're taking in exogenous androgens then obviously youll need to step the dose up as our recommendation is based off of individuals that are on natty products.

That isnt to say 3 caps a day isnt enough to handle the aromatization from heavy cycles in some users, check the thread that Jasen created recently. He was using 1g of Test a week, his AI was Erase at 3caps/day, when he got his blood test estrogen was well within normal range.

 

[andrew732]

I have learned through experience that the old ergopharm (and even the bismark labs) 1-AD seemed to lower estrogen levels on me. I'm thinking erase is the same concept at a lower price. I'm going to try this product out-I have faith in it.......I have read a lot of good reviews about it. Thanks for the info!!

The reason 1-AD kept you dry is that 1-AD or 1-Testosterone is a DHT derived hormone, DHT is nature's anti-estrogen and the masculine male hormone. Taking 1-AD in theory should keep you lean and dry. Erase is different as it will boost testosterone while lowering estradiol, 1-AD shuts your natural testosterone production.

 

[chrisrob05]

I still love the gains and overall look that 1-AD gives me. I like compounds that are meant for lean, dry mass. Too bad that it's nearly impossible to find anymore!!

 

[kevinhy]

I still love the gains and overall look that 1-AD gives me. I like compounds that are meant for lean, dry mass. Too bad that it's nearly impossible to find anymore!!

That's because it's a scheduled drug now.

 

[nattydisaster]

I still love the gains and overall look that 1-AD gives me. I like compounds that are meant for lean, dry mass. Too bad that it's nearly impossible to find anymore!!

Lots of people use Erase as a standalone like one would use a hardening dry mass agent

 

[CopyCat]

I still love the gains and overall look that 1-AD gives me. I like compounds that are meant for lean, dry mass. Too bad that it's nearly impossible to find anymore!!

You are comparing an AI to a prohormone. Not quite the same playing field.

Side note, you can look into AMSs 1-andro as it converts directly to 1-test.

 

[chrisrob05]

You are comparing an AI to a prohormone. Not quite the same playing field.

Side note, you can look into AMSs 1-andro as it converts directly to 1-test.

My understang is that ERASE is also a test booster.......I have heard that the AI is pretty strong too.

 

[CopyCat]

My understang is that ERASE is also a test booster.......I have heard that the AI is pretty strong too.

It is... By default when you control/decrease estrogen your test levels rise. Though 1-ad/1-andro are prohirmones meaning that they convert to a steroid within the body. In the case of 1-ad it converts to 1-testosterone.

 

[chrisrob05]

It is... By default when you control/decrease estrogen your test levels rise. Though 1-ad/1-andro are prohirmones meaning that they convert to a steroid within the body. In the case of 1-ad it converts to 1-testosterone.

I've always heard that reducing estrogen can decrease libido. I don't want to trade a decreased estrogen level for a flaccid weiner!!

 

[kevinhy]

I've always heard that reducing estrogen can decrease libido. I don't want to trade a decreased estrogen level for a flaccid weiner!!

Its very user dependent, but typically if you crush your estrogen with something like letrozole you will lose your libido until E comes back into range. Something like Erase at recommended dosage isnt going to crush your estrogen to undetectable levels like those pharm compounds, but it will decrease it modest/moderately. Typically many users report INCREASED libidos from lowering heightened estrogen levels, so obviously the inverse leads to problems as well.

 

[nattydisaster]

I've always heard that reducing estrogen can decrease libido. I don't want to trade a decreased estrogen level for a flaccid weiner!!

The beauty of Erase is the easy dosing. Want to crush your estrogen? Take a ****load. Want to just lower it a little? Take 1 capsule.

With Erase you can find the balance of maximum results without any negatives

 

[Hix]

Erase is stackable with Lean Xtreme on PCT, because both are cortisol agents or just one to use?

 

[kevinhy]

Erase is stackable with Lean Xtreme on PCT, because both are cortisol agents or just one to use?

I would probably use just one, or a lower dose of each at most.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Erase is stackable with Lean Xtreme on PCT, because both are cortisol agents or just one to use?

I recommend only using one - you don't need to stack two cortisol controllers together, and as with products containing AI properties, you want to be careful about it. So either:
a. Use Erase
b. Use Lean Xtreme
c. If you stack Erase and Lean Xtreme, use only a single cap of Erase and 2-3 caps of Lean Xtreme

Of the two products, I recommend using Erase - not only does it help re cortisol control, but it's also going to boost your total AND free testosterone and manage estrogen; all properties that you want during PCT.

~Rosie~

 

[chedapalooza]

Ok first let me say I used erase over the summer with Great success and loved it which is y I chose to use it again for sept+October after doing 4 weeks off.

That being said, over the summer while using erase, I noticed some marked difficulty breathing/inability to complete satisfying deep breathes... This has Bren happening more this second time around w erase (erase Is the ONLY variable I'm positive) I have also added Ana beta for the last 4 weeks of this run and the breathing has only gotten worse! These two supps r the only ones that r different from my staples back in the summer..

Obviously I love the effects of these products but being unable to breath properly Is not worth it... I'm wondering if anyone can relate to these experiences.. Could it be dose related? I take 4 ersase daily and 4 AB.. Could the 4 be lowering estrogen too much? That I am actually hurting my levels and causing adverse effects? Thank you very much. I love the company, just looking out trying not to be foolish or ignorant.

 

[bdcc]

I replied to this in the other thread.

 

[chedapalooza]

I replied to this in the other thread.

Yea thanks. Just trying to get more opinions. It's only in these two don't worry lol

 

[Rosie Chee]

Ok first let me say I used erase over the summer with Great success and loved it which is y I chose to use it again for sept+October after doing 4 weeks off.

That being said, over the summer while using erase, I noticed some marked difficulty breathing/inability to complete satisfying deep breathes... This has Bren happening more this second time around w erase (erase Is the ONLY variable I'm positive) I have also added Ana beta for the last 4 weeks of this run and the breathing has only gotten worse! These two supps r the only ones that r different from my staples back in the summer..

Obviously I love the effects of these products but being unable to breath properly Is not worth it... I'm wondering if anyone can relate to these experiences.. Could it be dose related? I take 4 ersase daily and 4 AB.. Could the 4 be lowering estrogen too much? That I am actually hurting my levels and causing adverse effects? Thank you very much. I love the company, just looking out trying not to be foolish or ignorant.

Answering here and not in the other thread (like Ben did)...I have not experienced anything like this using either Erase or AnaBeta standalone or stacked together, and if anyone was going to have "breathing" issues with any product, it would be me, given my hereditary condition (my red blood cells can only carry two oxygen molecules instead of the FOUR that everyone elses' - or the 99.9999999.....% that do not have my "condition" - do)- I use 5 caps of Erase a day and used 4-5 caps daily when using AnaBeta. That said, no one can predict everything that one might experience using a product, especially since we all have different responses and experiences with every product, even if we can give a general idea of what to "expect" (not everyone experiences what is expected either, and some the opposite).

As Ben recommended, I would say see a medical professional about it, since it's very likely something else.

~Rosie~

 

[chedapalooza]

Yea I think it's anxiety from family issues.. U guys r all great.. Thx

 

[chedapalooza]

Rosie, I tried pming you about triazole but it wasn't working..

 

[T-Bone]

Erase didn't do much for me when I ran it for 8 weeks at 3 caps a day. Well it did increase libido but I didn't see any leaning out or strength gains out of the ordinary. Maybe I'll try it again in the future at 5 caps a day. I'd need 4 bottles to run it for 8 weeks at that dosage though. Plus I would be worried about getting sick since lowered estrogen also lowers your immune response. Anabeta is still the best PES product.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Yea I think it's anxiety from family issues.. U guys r all great.. Thx

No worries

Rosie, I tried pming you about triazole but it wasn't working..

Anything you want to know about my experience with Triazole, you can see in the daily log I kept on it: Completing the Female Terminator's REMODEL with TRIAZOLE (and other Goodies) - inclusive of Final Review in post #202. If you want to know about Triazole compared to Erase or something along those lines re my experience and thoughts, I have made notes on this in various threads - you just have to make a quick search for them. If you want to know more about Triazole, the Driven Sports' subforum is the best place to look and ask about it - Matt and his team are very knowledgeable, and Rob is always there to help out.

~Rosie~

 

[chedapalooza]

No worries

Anything you want to know about my experience with Triazole, you can see in the daily log I kept on it: Completing the Female Terminator's REMODEL with TRIAZOLE (and other Goodies) - inclusive of Final Review in post #202. If you want to know about Triazole compared to Erase or something along those lines re my experience and thoughts, I have made notes on this in various threads - you just have to make a quick search for them. If you want to know more about Triazole, the Driven Sports' subforum is the best place to look and ask about it - Matt and his team are very knowledgeable, and Rob is always there to help out.

~Rosie~

Nice, I read your review and I also messaged w another reputable member on here who swears by the stuff..

I will be ending erase n Anabeta Oct31and going on ebol for the month of November.

For December and Jan I would like to do the following, your feedback Is greatly appreciated. My goal will be a recomp for december leading up to one hell of a new years eve! Then start a lean bulk for Jan, feb, march... December n Jan supplementing as follows, again, ur feedback Is very important for me:

Dec- Triazole 3-4 daily, oxy elite 3 daily, alpha t2 3 daily
anabolic pump, acetyl l carn+cla (redefine nutrition)
lipotrophin pm+3z
Vit shop brand horny goat weed, hemonoxavol (no booster)

Jan- triazole 3-4 daily +morph by isatori
Shift (3 daily) + ge pharma pyroburn (1/day)
tta500 (1am), acetyl l+cla
Lipotrophin pm+tta500 at bed
anabolic pump, horny goat weed

Also have multi v and b complex

I want to keep fat burners low in Jan n then go stim free for feb/march at the height of my bulk.. I'm worried that shift plus one serving of pyroburn ephedra isn't enough though :/ that why I hope the triazole will keep me lean

 

[Rosie Chee]

Nice, I read your review and I also messaged w another reputable member on here who swears by the stuff..

I will be ending erase n Anabeta Oct31and going on ebol for the month of November.

For December and Jan I would like to do the following, your feedback Is greatly appreciated. My goal will be a recomp for december leading up to one hell of a new years eve! Then start a lean bulk for Jan, feb, march... December n Jan supplementing as follows, again, ur feedback Is very important for me:

Dec- Triazole 3-4 daily, oxy elite 3 daily, alpha t2 3 daily
anabolic pump, acetyl l carn+cla (redefine nutrition)
lipotrophin pm+3z
Vit shop brand horny goat weed, hemonoxavol (no booster)

Jan- triazole 3-4 daily +morph by isatori
Shift (3 daily) + ge pharma pyroburn (1/day)
tta500 (1am), acetyl l+cla
Lipotrophin pm+tta500 at bed
anabolic pump, horny goat weed

Also have multi v and b complex

I want to keep fat burners low in Jan n then go stim free for feb/march at the height of my bulk.. I'm worried that shift plus one serving of pyroburn ephedra isn't enough though :/ that why I hope the triazole will keep me lean

Triazole treated me well, yes, but as you'll see from reading both my log and review, that the time during which I used it was NOT "normal" for me as far as EVERYthing went. Also bear in mind that whilst my experience/s and feedback on a product can be useful, my body often responds and has VERY DIFFERENT effects and results than what it should or is intended (for example, my joints being the best ever using 5 caps a day of Erase, when 99.9999999999.......% of people would experience BAD joints using it at that dose, especially over prolonged periods of time).

Looks like you're putting the focus on supplements - DON'T forget the BASICS! If you want to recomp, sure, some supplements can help and I'd definitely recommend them, but the key to a SUCCESSFUL recomp is making sure that your NUTRITION AND TRAINING are in line first - any supplements you use should just SUPPLEMENT those two factors. Make sure you have the BASIC STAPLE supplements before adding in anything else. You've got a lot of stuff stacked (more does NOT mean more effective, better, or faster results, and EVERYthing you use should have a PURPOSE!), and if you've never used some of what you are planning on stacking before (if you have, ignore this), then you don't need to be using it all at once. You're only 162 pounds at 5'7" - if your nutrition is manipulated correctly (the KEY to a successful recomp IS NUTRITION!), then there is NO reason why you cannot maintain leanness whilst adding mass (just remember that during a recomp gains are going to come slowly, especially if you're also focusing on staying lean or even leaning out as you do it). Do it all right and there's no reason why you can't achieve what you want, though - just make sure that you place your emphasis on the factors that are going to have the most important roles and not on the "minor" details.

~Rosie~

 

[alwaysfirst]

Will Erase make you fail a steroid test?

 

[kevinhy]

Will Erase make you fail a steroid test?

No.

 

[chedapalooza]

Ok so I've brought this up before and I dnt want to beat a dead horse BUT...

I think I am ready to attritibute my previous breathing difficulties to the erase...

First and foremost, let me say- I love pes and erase. I love it so much I am going to use it again in December and Jan. And take note of the changes in breathing if there are any!

I will note that while using in July at 4 / day I notice slight breathing problems/heaviness in chest. Then after a 4 week break (during Which the symptoms subsided)
I use erase again for 8 weeks straight at 4 a day, tapering the dose in the last week. I had such bad breathing problems thy I saw a lung and heart doctor, all forthrm to find noting . Since stopping on October 30th, I have been a ok!

I HOPE it's not the erase, and the product is so effective that I will try it again! This time I will probably stay at 3/day. will also be stacking with anabeta...

I just want to know if anyone has noticed any breathing issues while using erase.. Maybe the symptoms were related to the high dose.. I'm not product or company bashing, I love the product n company.. Thus Is just a serious, personal concern. If any reps could possibly point out any mechanisms of erase that could potentially affect blood pressure, lung function, etc... That would be very appreciated n helpful. Thank you!

 

[kevinhy]

Ok so I've brought this up before and I dnt want to beat a dead horse BUT...

I think I am ready to attritibute my previous breathing difficulties to the erase...

First and foremost, let me say- I love pes and erase. I love it so much I am going to use it again in December and Jan. And take note of the changes in breathing if there are any!

I will note that while using in July at 4 / day I notice slight breathing problems/heaviness in chest. Then after a 4 week break (during Which the symptoms subsided)
I use erase again for 8 weeks straight at 4 a day, tapering the dose in the last week. I had such bad breathing problems thy I saw a lung and heart doctor, all forthrm to find noting . Since stopping on October 30th, I have been a ok!

I HOPE it's not the erase, and the product is so effective that I will try it again! This time I will probably stay at 3/day. will also be stacking with anabeta...

I just want to know if anyone has noticed any breathing issues while using erase.. Maybe the symptoms were related to the high dose.. I'm not product or company bashing, I love the product n company.. Thus Is just a serious, personal concern. If any reps could possibly point out any mechanisms of erase that could potentially affect blood pressure, lung function, etc... That would be very appreciated n helpful. Thank you!

Im sorry for your experience.

Theres nothing with the MAO of this AI or any other that would lead me to believe they can cause breathing difficulties. Ive ran 6 capsules a day for an extended period of time without anything in that regard.

 

[dcne02]

On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?

 

[Spaniard]

On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?

It's user dependant bro. Experiment. Without bloods you have no idea what your levels are. Look for the signs that it's working.

I started at 3 a day and broke out with crazy acne, testicular sensitivity, marked increased aggression... Having a temper problem in the first place I had to dial it down a little. Now I've hit my sweet spot and all I can say is that Erase is no BS.

Playing with your dosage will only help you find your sweet spot. You don't need people on a forum to help you with that. In not trying to be a hater dude but supps are so user dependant you gotta test the waters yourself my friend.

Good luck,
Valdez

 

[chedapalooza]

On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?

Yea I would* guess * ur crushing ur estro too much.. Drop to two.. I accidentally stacked erase w a test booster that had an ai in it! Once I realized that n just went w solo erase, I gelt a million times better.. Drop to two ..

 

[F355]

I understand that this might be a little off topic, but it's been bugging me for quite some time now. This is probably the wrong place to ask this, but fck it. As some of you are already aware, there is another product on the market that contains the same active ingredient that is in Erase. However, they choose to use a totally different nomenclature, which at the end of the day, wouldn't exactly be the "same" active as Erase. They choose the name 3,7-keto-DHEA. Now, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry, but I'd like to think I know a basic understanding of it, as far as naming compounds go. 3,7-keto-DHEA would imply that there are two ketones at carbons 3 and 7 along with an -ene at C5 and one more ketone at C17, rounding out the functional groups and bonds of standard DHEA.

Erase's active nomenclature is androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. Now just by looking at this compound's name, I can tell it has the basic sterane nucleus with double bonds at C3 and C5 and one ketone each at C7 and C17. Now comparing the two actives, the difference that I see is that 3,7-keto-DHEA actually HAS a ketone at C3 whereas Erase's active does not, hence the double bond at C3 which makes it 3-deoxy.

Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as nomenclatures on labels go, these seem to be two different compounds and it bugs me when people keep implying that 3,7-keto-DHEA is the same ingredient that is in Erase. If you were to break down 3,7-keto-DHEA even further, wouldn't it be androst-5-ene-3,7,17-trione? I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off here. I just don't see how 3,7-keto = 3,5-diene; the discrepancy I'm experiencing is the difference at the 3 position.

Again, I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question and I felt like it was "somewhat" ok to ask in this thread considering the title of the thread, hehe. Oh and I think you guys know the other product that I am talking about since it has already been discussed in this thread. It's just that it's sort of a universal rule to not call out products/companies when you are discussing about them towards another similiar product.

 

[kevinhy]

I understand that this might be a little off topic, but it's been bugging me for quite some time now. This is probably the wrong place to ask this, but fck it. As some of you are already aware, there is another product on the market that contains the same active ingredient that is in Erase. However, they choose to use a totally different nomenclature, which at the end of the day, wouldn't exactly be the "same" active as Erase. They choose the name 3,7-keto-DHEA. Now, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry, but I'd like to think I know a basic understanding of it, as far as naming compounds go. 3,7-keto-DHEA would imply that there are two ketones at carbons 3 and 7 along with an -ene at C5 and one more ketone at C17, rounding out the functional groups and bonds of standard DHEA.

Erase's active nomenclature is androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. Now just by looking at this compound's name, I can tell it has the basic sterane nucleus with double bonds at C3 and C5 and one ketone each at C7 and C17. Now comparing the two actives, the difference that I see is that 3,7-keto-DHEA actually HAS a ketone at C3 whereas Erase's active does not, hence the double bond at C3 which makes it 3-deoxy.

Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as nomenclatures on labels go, these seem to be two different compounds and it bugs me when people keep implying that 3,7-keto-DHEA is the same ingredient that is in Erase. If you were to break down 3,7-keto-DHEA even further, wouldn't it be androst-5-ene-3,7,17-trione? I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off here. I just don't see how 3,7-keto = 3,5-diene; the discrepancy I'm experiencing is the difference at the 3 position.

Again, I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question and I felt like it was "somewhat" ok to ask in this thread considering the title of the thread, hehe. Oh and I think you guys know the other product that I am talking about since it has already been discussed in this thread. It's just that it's sort of a universal rule to not call out products/companies when you are discussing about them towards another similiar product.

I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.

 

[F355]

I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.

If it's supposed to be the same active as Erase, then 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA or 3-deoxy-7-keto-DHEA would make perfect sense, no? It would just be another way of writing androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. But I can see where the question would arise if it contains a 3-ene or not, just because it's 3-deoxy'ed.

Would you happen to have a link to that PA discussion?

 

[kevinhy]

If it's supposed to be the same active as Erase, then 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA or 3-deoxy-7-keto-DHEA would make perfect sense, no? It would just be another way of writing androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. But I can see where the question would arise if it contains a 3-ene or not, just because it's 3-deoxy'ed.

Would you happen to have a link to that PA discussion?

I cant find it right now but 3-deoxy-7-oxo-dhea does make perfect sense. theres been a discussion on this in a bunch of threads over the past year or so.

3,7-keto doesnt.

 

[F355]

I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.

I cant find it right now but 3-deoxy-7-oxo-dhea does make perfect sense. theres been a discussion on this in a bunch of threads over the past year or so.

3,7-keto doesnt.

Ok, so now I'm a little confused. In post #45 you say that PA discussed how 3-deoxy-7-keto does not make any sense, and then you say it does. I'm assuming you made a mistake and meant to originally write 3,7-keto-DHEA in post #45?

 

[F355]

I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.

Nevermind. I see what you did, I just read it wrong. My fault.

 

[kevinhy]

haha, yeah.

the way THEY write 3-deoxy doesnt make sense.