PES ERASE QUESTION

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    On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcne02
    On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?
    It's user dependant bro. Experiment. Without bloods you have no idea what your levels are. Look for the signs that it's working.

    I started at 3 a day and broke out with crazy acne, testicular sensitivity, marked increased aggression... Having a temper problem in the first place I had to dial it down a little. Now I've hit my sweet spot and all I can say is that Erase is no BS.

    Playing with your dosage will only help you find your sweet spot. You don't need people on a forum to help you with that. In not trying to be a hater dude but supps are so user dependant you gotta test the waters yourself my friend.

    Good luck,
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcne02
    On my second week of erase and my libido is shot. It was raging before I started taking it. For most it seems to have a positive effect on libido it seems. I guess my estro is too low? I'm at 3 caps Ed. I can deal with it unless that is a sign for me to lower the dose?
    Yea I would* guess * ur crushing ur estro too much.. Drop to two.. I accidentally stacked erase w a test booster that had an ai in it! Once I realized that n just went w solo erase, I gelt a million times better.. Drop to two ..
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    I understand that this might be a little off topic, but it's been bugging me for quite some time now. This is probably the wrong place to ask this, but fck it. As some of you are already aware, there is another product on the market that contains the same active ingredient that is in Erase. However, they choose to use a totally different nomenclature, which at the end of the day, wouldn't exactly be the "same" active as Erase. They choose the name 3,7-keto-DHEA. Now, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry, but I'd like to think I know a basic understanding of it, as far as naming compounds go. 3,7-keto-DHEA would imply that there are two ketones at carbons 3 and 7 along with an -ene at C5 and one more ketone at C17, rounding out the functional groups and bonds of standard DHEA.

    Erase's active nomenclature is androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. Now just by looking at this compound's name, I can tell it has the basic sterane nucleus with double bonds at C3 and C5 and one ketone each at C7 and C17. Now comparing the two actives, the difference that I see is that 3,7-keto-DHEA actually HAS a ketone at C3 whereas Erase's active does not, hence the double bond at C3 which makes it 3-deoxy.

    Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as nomenclatures on labels go, these seem to be two different compounds and it bugs me when people keep implying that 3,7-keto-DHEA is the same ingredient that is in Erase. If you were to break down 3,7-keto-DHEA even further, wouldn't it be androst-5-ene-3,7,17-trione? I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off here. I just don't see how 3,7-keto = 3,5-diene; the discrepancy I'm experiencing is the difference at the 3 position.

    Again, I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question and I felt like it was "somewhat" ok to ask in this thread considering the title of the thread, hehe. Oh and I think you guys know the other product that I am talking about since it has already been discussed in this thread. It's just that it's sort of a universal rule to not call out products/companies when you are discussing about them towards another similiar product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    I understand that this might be a little off topic, but it's been bugging me for quite some time now. This is probably the wrong place to ask this, but fck it. As some of you are already aware, there is another product on the market that contains the same active ingredient that is in Erase. However, they choose to use a totally different nomenclature, which at the end of the day, wouldn't exactly be the "same" active as Erase. They choose the name 3,7-keto-DHEA. Now, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry, but I'd like to think I know a basic understanding of it, as far as naming compounds go. 3,7-keto-DHEA would imply that there are two ketones at carbons 3 and 7 along with an -ene at C5 and one more ketone at C17, rounding out the functional groups and bonds of standard DHEA.

    Erase's active nomenclature is androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. Now just by looking at this compound's name, I can tell it has the basic sterane nucleus with double bonds at C3 and C5 and one ketone each at C7 and C17. Now comparing the two actives, the difference that I see is that 3,7-keto-DHEA actually HAS a ketone at C3 whereas Erase's active does not, hence the double bond at C3 which makes it 3-deoxy.

    Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as nomenclatures on labels go, these seem to be two different compounds and it bugs me when people keep implying that 3,7-keto-DHEA is the same ingredient that is in Erase. If you were to break down 3,7-keto-DHEA even further, wouldn't it be androst-5-ene-3,7,17-trione? I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off here. I just don't see how 3,7-keto = 3,5-diene; the discrepancy I'm experiencing is the difference at the 3 position.

    Again, I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question and I felt like it was "somewhat" ok to ask in this thread considering the title of the thread, hehe. Oh and I think you guys know the other product that I am talking about since it has already been discussed in this thread. It's just that it's sort of a universal rule to not call out products/companies when you are discussing about them towards another similiar product.
    I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.
    If it's supposed to be the same active as Erase, then 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA or 3-deoxy-7-keto-DHEA would make perfect sense, no? It would just be another way of writing androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. But I can see where the question would arise if it contains a 3-ene or not, just because it's 3-deoxy'ed.

    Would you happen to have a link to that PA discussion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    If it's supposed to be the same active as Erase, then 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA or 3-deoxy-7-keto-DHEA would make perfect sense, no? It would just be another way of writing androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. But I can see where the question would arise if it contains a 3-ene or not, just because it's 3-deoxy'ed.

    Would you happen to have a link to that PA discussion?
    I cant find it right now but 3-deoxy-7-oxo-dhea does make perfect sense. theres been a discussion on this in a bunch of threads over the past year or so.

    3,7-keto doesnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I cant find it right now but 3-deoxy-7-oxo-dhea does make perfect sense. theres been a discussion on this in a bunch of threads over the past year or so.

    3,7-keto doesnt.
    Ok, so now I'm a little confused. In post #45 you say that PA discussed how 3-deoxy-7-keto does not make any sense, and then you say it does. I'm assuming you made a mistake and meant to originally write 3,7-keto-DHEA in post #45?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.
    Nevermind. I see what you did, I just read it wrong. My fault.
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    haha, yeah.

    the way THEY write 3-deoxy doesnt make sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    haha, yeah.

    the way THEY write 3-deoxy doesnt make sense.
    Yupp, sure doesn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    I understand that this might be a little off topic, but it's been bugging me for quite some time now. This is probably the wrong place to ask this, but fck it. As some of you are already aware, there is another product on the market that contains the same active ingredient that is in Erase. However, they choose to use a totally different nomenclature, which at the end of the day, wouldn't exactly be the "same" active as Erase. They choose the name 3,7-keto-DHEA. Now, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry, but I'd like to think I know a basic understanding of it, as far as naming compounds go. 3,7-keto-DHEA would imply that there are two ketones at carbons 3 and 7 along with an -ene at C5 and one more ketone at C17, rounding out the functional groups and bonds of standard DHEA.

    Erase's active nomenclature is androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. Now just by looking at this compound's name, I can tell it has the basic sterane nucleus with double bonds at C3 and C5 and one ketone each at C7 and C17. Now comparing the two actives, the difference that I see is that 3,7-keto-DHEA actually HAS a ketone at C3 whereas Erase's active does not, hence the double bond at C3 which makes it 3-deoxy.

    Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as nomenclatures on labels go, these seem to be two different compounds and it bugs me when people keep implying that 3,7-keto-DHEA is the same ingredient that is in Erase. If you were to break down 3,7-keto-DHEA even further, wouldn't it be androst-5-ene-3,7,17-trione? I dunno, maybe I'm just totally off here. I just don't see how 3,7-keto = 3,5-diene; the discrepancy I'm experiencing is the difference at the 3 position.

    Again, I know it's a little off topic but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question and I felt like it was "somewhat" ok to ask in this thread considering the title of the thread, hehe. Oh and I think you guys know the other product that I am talking about since it has already been discussed in this thread. It's just that it's sort of a universal rule to not call out products/companies when you are discussing about them towards another similiar product.
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I believe PA went over how their nomenclature for 3-deoxy-7-oxo didnt make any sense. I think you would have to PM that company and ask them why they named it the way they did.
    Quote Originally Posted by F355 View Post
    If it's supposed to be the same active as Erase, then 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA or 3-deoxy-7-keto-DHEA would make perfect sense, no? It would just be another way of writing androst-3,5-diene-7,17-dione. But I can see where the question would arise if it contains a 3-ene or not, just because it's 3-deoxy'ed.

    Would you happen to have a link to that PA discussion?
    I assume this is about Free Test?

    The problem is if a regulator sees 3-desoxy or 3-deoxy on a supplement label they may think Madol (which begins with 2-Deoxy). You are correct in your breakdown of the nomenclature however, App Nut simply felt it would be wiser to leave the desoxy/deoxy off the label.

    Dirk should be here to follow up shortly if you have any questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I assume this is about Free Test?

    The problem is if a regulator sees 3-desoxy or 3-deoxy on a supplement label they may think Madol (which begins with 2-Deoxy). You are correct in your breakdown of the nomenclature however, App Nut simply felt it would be wiser to leave the desoxy/deoxy off the label.

    Dirk should be here to follow up shortly if you have any questions
    I guess i can see how that makes sense.

    Although the nomenclature for madol looks nothing like 3-deoxy-7-oxo, i wouldnt put it past a dumb regulator to see "deoxy" and think it had a controlled substance.

    Better safe than sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I guess i can see how that makes sense.

    Although the nomenclature for madol looks nothing like 3-deoxy-7-oxo, i wouldnt put it past a dumb regulator to see "deoxy" and think it had a controlled substance.

    Better safe than sorry.
    Exactly! With all the recent bans and investigations and talks of the FDA taking over dietary supplements, App Nut just didnt want to raise any red flags with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I assume this is about Free Test?

    The problem is if a regulator sees 3-desoxy or 3-deoxy on a supplement label they may think Madol (which begins with 2-Deoxy). You are correct in your breakdown of the nomenclature however, App Nut simply felt it would be wiser to leave the desoxy/deoxy off the label.

    Dirk should be here to follow up shortly if you have any questions
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    I guess i can see how that makes sense.

    Although the nomenclature for madol looks nothing like 3-deoxy-7-oxo, i wouldnt put it past a dumb regulator to see "deoxy" and think it had a controlled substance.

    Better safe than sorry.
    Ahhh I see, I see. Well from a company standpoint, I totally get it now; I didn't even think about the whole Madol reference. Personally, I don't think it would "look" similar to Madol on the label no more than all the PEA analogs that look similar to amphetamine. I mean you would have to be a really dumb regulator to go as far as to start red-flagging products that contain 3-deoxy-7-oxo without taking a closer look at it; frankly, your position should be questioned if you jump to conclusions like that.

    AppNut didn't ever consider 7-oxo-androstadienone or 7-oxo-androst-3,5-dien-17-one as an alternative to the current nomenclature ?
  

  
 

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