Erase and females
- Thread starter dat dude
- Start date
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Hard to say, really. What is her reason for wanting to use Erase? The is the important thing. Does she want to be in a more natural anabolic state?
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
There is nothing wrong with females using Erase - just be aware that it lowers estrogen. However, if she's a beginner, does not have a decent training base, has never used supplements before and does not know much about them, or wants a "quick fix answer", then she should NOT use Erase.
dat dude
Member
I think she wanted to know if she was on birth control would it be a bad idea to take Erase. She teaches aerobics and she's a certified trainer. She has used supplements (OEP and Alpha T-2 BCAA'S and protein powders) in the past but nothing like erase though.
dat dude
Member
She wants to be leaner she's on birth control and wanted to know would Erase interfere with her birth control meds.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Erase should not interfere with birth control, no.
If she wants to be leaner, then she needs to look first to her NUTRITION AND TRAINING - you look at the basics before anything else. The key to fat loss success is predominantly in NUTRITION.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
I really wouldn't make that call. Supplementing with both an AI and some form of Estradiol seems like it would have a contraindication somewhere.
dat dude
Member
Thanks for the feedback. My friend is 5'6 maybe 120lbs she looks a little soft in her obliques. Overall I think she is in good shape decent abs back arms great legs. I'll ask her about her diet carbs protein intake etc.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
True - although I have used 3,7-keto DHEA and other AIs, I've never used birth control, so I'm not the most qualified with experience re stacking them. An AI - or anything natural or synthetic that decreases Estrogen - could possibly interfere with or render hormonal birth control ineffective.
120 pounds at 5'6" is on the lighter side. If she "looks" soft, then it could be nutrition (food she's eating or water retention) or training (not enough resistance training or she doesn't have the muscle mass there) factors that need adjusting, or she holds any bodyfat she does have there. Either way, with those body statistics, I wouldn't recommend her using Erase - get her nutrition and training sorted for her goals and needs and she should be fine.
OnTheRoadTo
Active member
This is idiotic. Women worried about softness from estrogen should just get off the pill. Almost all women are woefully undertrained, and most aren't looking at gain significant amounts of muscle above the baseline female athlete physique. Furthermore, women aren't going to produce high levels of testosterone to build muscle. Honestly, Rosie, I cringe every time you post something related to testosterone boosting.
Put her on EC and alpha T2, with a competent diet (adequate protein, less carbs) and 5x5 style training.
Cortisol control supps (Lean Xtreme, I like, I think forskolin is more effective in women.) can be very effective as well.
Put her on EC and alpha T2, with a competent diet (adequate protein, less carbs) and 5x5 style training.
Cortisol control supps (Lean Xtreme, I like, I think forskolin is more effective in women.) can be very effective as well.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Calm down, bud. No one said anything about women and Testosterone, and just because I am a female, there is no reason why I should not know about and use such products (you've obviously never read either of my Invalid Link Removed articles). Next time, make sure you read what people ACTUALLY write. And if you're going to make personal attacks, at least back up your statements and comments with something SOLID.
OnTheRoadTo
Active member
You know what? I was out of line. My apologies. Women's mainstream fitness is just so broken that I can get riled up at the drop of a pin.
fanzdslpwr
Member
why doesn't she take a different form of birth control (IUD,Condoms) the pill has been shown to lower womens natural test levels by 40%. Have her stop the pill for 2 months and use another method of birth control and reassess from there.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Damn that is probably why girls lose sex drive on BC.
I have no idea about Erase with Birth Control, and there are so many different kinds now. I certainly wouldnt risk it. I mean antibiotics and grapefruit juice can make birth control bad...scary!
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I wouldn't have a clue since I don't use it . . .
. . . And yeah, I started using Erase on Tuesday for those interested in the female experience with the product: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/163701-revolution-female-terminator.html
fanzdslpwr
Member
just by stopping the pill should tighten her up abit in the midsection
F355
Member
I'm with Rodja on this, seriously.
Using BC plus an AI (whether it's OTC or not) will more than likely interact somewhere down the line, probably sooner than later. The fact that both these type of compounds decrease estrogen shows that it will certainly suppress estrogen too much. I would not advise a woman to use an AI while on BC, unless she's cleared by her physician of all possible side-effects. If you don't want to make an appointment with your doctor to talk about it, just ask a pharmacist at your local pharmacy real quick to get a better insight.
With that said, women honestly do not need to use AIs or estrogen controllers to lean out or lose weight. High reps, low weight, lots of cardio and just clean eating will lean and tighten a woman's body up in no time.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
No, women do not need to use AIs or ANYthing but the basic staples to lean out and lose weight. As for your second sentences - that's like telling a woman it's ok to use pink dumbbells and do excessive cardio. Losing fat is NO different for a female than it is a male, and lifting as HEAVY as she can for low- to medium reps, little or no cardio (since cardio is NOT necessary for fat loss!), but predominantly NUTRITION targeted towards fat loss will be effective and successful.
~Rosie~
OnTheRoadTo
Active member
I'm pretty sure he means 8-10 reps, not "pink dumbbells"
F355
Member
Rosie Chee Scott said:
If anything, my comment was intended to be a compliment to women. I don't see how the rest of my comment relates to telling women what exercise equipment to use. Every woman that I know essentially wants a curvy and lean figure, not bulky nor stick-like. High reps, low weight, a decent amount of cardio, and yoga/pilates/stretching is practically the perfect regimen for any woman that is looking for the type of body I just mentioned.
I also wouldn't go as far as to say that cardio is NOT necessary for fat loss, considering it's basically the opposite for a lot of people. Sure, strength training increases cardiovascular activity but utilizing ONLY that as a part of a fat loss routine is not going to work, at least not for everyone. Only the few that are genetically gifted can get away with just lifting weights to stay lean. It almost necessary to incorporate moderate-high intensity cardio to enhance and even maintain a lean physique.
specmike
Active member
Thread resurrection alert. I have already bought my bottle of ERASE so this is purely for informational purposes.
I am curious for a couple of reasons hereInvalid Link Removed
Here is one of the introductory ERASE posts from PESs nattydisaster last summer.
The current info does not say "ERASE YOUR ESTROGEN". Not sure this matters to anyone. I just happened to notice the discrepency and wondered if it was an accidental omission or if the statement was intentionally edited.
My real questions are:
1: By what method does ERASE lower estrogen? Is it ONLY by an AI mechanism meaning it inhibits testosterone aromitazation?
2: Is there additional estrogen reduction in addition to the AI activity?
3: Would this differ in a female using ERASE?
I too am wondering about the birth control question. My wife uses it primarily for regulation of her periods, notpregnancy prevention. So, I'm wondering if anyone has discovered just what ERASE might do in conjunction with BC.
"IF" ERASE is only reducing overall estrogen via an AI action, it would not effect the estrogen + progesterone being directly delivered by the NuvaRing. Therefore, it "seems" like it would simply lower overall estrogen levels via the AI activity.
DISCLAIMER: I don't expect anyone here to go out on a limb here and offer what might seem like family planning or medical advice. But, she's VERY interested in trying the T2+Erase stack so we're just curious. Don't worry, I won't come after any of you for child support :fingersx:
I am curious for a couple of reasons hereInvalid Link Removed
Here is one of the introductory ERASE posts from PESs nattydisaster last summer.
The current info does not say "ERASE YOUR ESTROGEN". Not sure this matters to anyone. I just happened to notice the discrepency and wondered if it was an accidental omission or if the statement was intentionally edited.
My real questions are:
1: By what method does ERASE lower estrogen? Is it ONLY by an AI mechanism meaning it inhibits testosterone aromitazation?
2: Is there additional estrogen reduction in addition to the AI activity?
3: Would this differ in a female using ERASE?
I too am wondering about the birth control question. My wife uses it primarily for regulation of her periods, notpregnancy prevention. So, I'm wondering if anyone has discovered just what ERASE might do in conjunction with BC.
"IF" ERASE is only reducing overall estrogen via an AI action, it would not effect the estrogen + progesterone being directly delivered by the NuvaRing. Therefore, it "seems" like it would simply lower overall estrogen levels via the AI activity.
DISCLAIMER: I don't expect anyone here to go out on a limb here and offer what might seem like family planning or medical advice. But, she's VERY interested in trying the T2+Erase stack so we're just curious. Don't worry, I won't come after any of you for child support :fingersx:
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
1. Some information on 3,7-keto DHEA (the active in Erase) from the FREE TEST write-up:
2. See information above.
3. A female using Erase should get the effects through the same mechanisms and pathways. However, since LH has a different mechanism in males and females, I cannot say this for sure, so someone more knowledgeable may say something about this.
I don't use BC, so I cannot comment on using it with Erase.
~Rosie~
DreamWeaver
Legend
Man Rosie does so much to despell the myth of women in fitness, I have been watching cuz it's so true to my own beliefs. I train my girls just the way I would a man and the results are astounding, they don't get bulky just better shape. That's why I like to call it body shaping instead of building when I talk to women. Anywho, the girls are avid believers, I love training women!! They listen to what you say and they're fun to look at...
Yah Monica will probably try erase based on Rosie's experience..
Ontheroadto, good form in owning up man... looks good on you, and Rosie is one woman I would not like to argue with... hehe...
Yah Monica will probably try erase based on Rosie's experience..
Ontheroadto, good form in owning up man... looks good on you, and Rosie is one woman I would not like to argue with... hehe...
specmike
Active member
Most people don't realize that women simply don't have enough testosterone in their system (naturally of course) to develop and keep the same amount of muscle mass as the average healthy natural male. And, women with Adam's Apples and enlarged .....genitalia are NOT attractive to me.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Rodja
Board Sponsor
I think everyone realizes this fact. However, there is more to adding LBM than just testosterone.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Absolutely - nutrition, training, etc. Some people don't realize that either :sigh:
specmike
Active member
I did not mean the type of people that would be reading AM. By "most", I mean the average gym person that goes thru the motions but does not study nutrition and supplementation, biology, endocrinology, exercise techniques, etc. And of course, people that don't exercise at all.
Quite a few of these types of people, at some point in their life, have seen a female body builder and assumed that she got that way simply by lifting a few weights and eating raw meat. How many times have you heard both males and females making statements about not wanting to get too big?
Rodja
Board Sponsor
I was not referring to AM either. I think most can name to primary male and female hormone.
badfish51581
Member
I have a quesiton.
Being the majority of the circulating estrogen in pre-menopausal women is created in their ovaries, what is the point of an aromatase inhibitor? The reason it works in men is because the majority fo the estrogen we have circulating is actually created through the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via aromatase. Thus stopping this conversion drastically lowers our estrogen. Aromatization doesn't not account for the majority of circulating estrogen in pre-menopausal women.
I don't get what the point is for women. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Birth Control has been known to permantly increase SHBG. I'd imagine this would lower what little free testosterone they have which would have an impact on libido.
Being the majority of the circulating estrogen in pre-menopausal women is created in their ovaries, what is the point of an aromatase inhibitor? The reason it works in men is because the majority fo the estrogen we have circulating is actually created through the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via aromatase. Thus stopping this conversion drastically lowers our estrogen. Aromatization doesn't not account for the majority of circulating estrogen in pre-menopausal women.
I don't get what the point is for women. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Birth Control has been known to permantly increase SHBG. I'd imagine this would lower what little free testosterone they have which would have an impact on libido.
specmike
Active member
LOL....naming them and having any clue as to what they do is 2 VERY different things.
I'll requalify my statement. In MY experience, more than 50% of people that I have personally heard speak on the subject are in no way educated on what it truly takes to give a female the type of masculine traits seen in female body builders. These are the same people that Rosie and DreamWeaver were addressing when they spoke of myths above. These people are ignorant to the advantages of and methods to resistance training for females.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
It doesn't matter WHERE a female's estrogen is created - aromatase enzymes are located in the midsection, and an AI is going to have similar - if not the same - effects on a female as on a male (i.e. decreasing water, etc.).
There are many reasons why a female might want to use a product with AI properties - I know that personally notice the difference when I am using a product with AI properties. It makes me drier for one - also note that one of the primary reasons I love Erase is not necessarily for its AI properties, but because it is the best product I have ever used re joints.
~Rosie~
DreamWeaver
Legend
Damn good cort blocker as well...
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Yes - Erase is good for a great many reasons, which is why it is my favourite and #1 Testosterone booster of choice.
~Rosie~
badfish51581
Member
Please elucidate more on this subject because apparently my understanding of what the effects of using an aromatase inhibitor are incorrect.
My understanding: By inhibiting the actions of the aromatase enzyme in males this effectively cuts off the majority the supply estrogen produced in their bodies since the majority (@ 80%) of estrogen is created via aromatization of androgens to estrogens. The reason this causes testosterone increases in men is because the body up regulates testosterone production in order to increase circulating estrogen. Men notice a drying effect because of the reduction in estrogen.
Where my confusion lies: In women, this process does not account for the majority of circulating estrogen, so inhibiting this process has minimal effect on circulating estrogens. There is also no feedback loop created increasing testosterone output.
Are you suggesting that despite this main difference in hormonal pathways the amount of testosterone NOT being converted to estrogen is still noticeable enough for you to recommend to other women?
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
You are confusing yourself and trying to complicate things here. I am not talking about Testosterone converting to Estrogen at all in females.
As I said, from personal experience I DO notice the difference and I DO dry out and hold less water when using a product with AI properties - you can dispute this all you like, but I know my body and how it responds, and your opinion will not change that fact.
Josh or someone else might like to step in here and say something, since you guys don't seem to like hearing this from a female.
Note also that an AI or something that contains AI properties is not something that I would recommend to a female - UNLESS she were a very experienced trainee, her nutrition and training were on target for her goals, she knew what she was doing, and knew about the ins and outs, risks and benefits, etc., that can occur with such use.
~Rosie~
badfish51581
Member
I'm not trying to debate your personal experience. I believe your personal feedback and that you saw a drying effect, but that doesn't answer my question about how this process works. All I was trying to do is put out my understanding of the biological process hoping someone could fill in the pieces I'm missing in terms of how this works in females.