[Beau]

Originally Posted by taylhis

Speculation is used to find the facts. If I didn't speculate that something was amiss then why would I check into it?

Worse, most speculation is very irresponsible. Some years ago, there was "speculation" by a certain German brewer regarding the employees of a competing (imported) Mexican brewer using the beer vats as urinals; thus - the skunk-like aroma. Several million dollars later (which came out of the German brewer's coffers), the effect of this speculation was over come. Get it?

Not fair. Not cool.

[taylhis]

Originally Posted by dsade

No...speculation gives you ideas of some kind of conclusion to look for. You use reason, science and evidence to find facts.

Speculation: I think Aspire works like something else, and matches some of the side effects. It also uses something neither I, nor my buddy, have heard of. It MUST be a drug.

Facts: Lab test indicate that this does/doesn't include a previously known drug.

Right. But I am using reason, science, and evidence.

SCIENCE - THE COMPONENTS:
Schizandra fruits or berries are chock-full of lignans, which have been shown to thwart liver damage, arouse liver repair and kindle normal liver functioning, somewhat due to its antioxidant like abilities. Studies have shown that Schizandra may be useful as a mild stimulant, liver protective, anti-depressant, antioxidant, adaptogen and cardiac tonic. However, you may wish to note it has not been shown to be a sexuality booster.

Danshen has a history of being used in Chinese medicine to address heart conditions and strokes; and some research studied support its value in these areas. It has also being studied as a way to impede the development of liver fibrosis. While this is clearly an element that may augment health, here too its primary ability is not enhancing sexual desire, potency or performance.

Huang Qi is also known as Astragalus, which has been used as a potent immune booster. It has been used extensively to address the common cold and respiratory infections, as well as to augment blood cell production in those who are undergoing chemotherapy or radiation therapy. Astragalus is also thought to be an antibacterial, antiviral, a liver tonic, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and a diuretic.

Oleic acid is the most common Omega 9 fatty acid. This fatty acid is essential, but it is not considered an EFA (essential fatty acid) because the human body can manufacture a limited amount of it if other EFA’s are present. Omega 9 is found in olive, canola, and grapeseed, peanut, safflower and sunflower oils; however, other sources are avocados, peanuts, peanut butter, nuts and seeds. Monosaturated Oleic Acid lowers heart attack risk, arteriosclerosis, and can aid in cancer prevention.

Ophioglossum Thermale Extract is a plant without much chemical knowledge but with much history. NONE of it is for sexual purpose. What chemical are they extracting from the Ophioglossum Thermale? It has not been shown to be a PDE5 inhibitor.

The other components I will not touch upon because they obviously would not cause the effects of Aspire 36. Arginine could help but not to this capacity.

REASON TO BELIEVE THIS COULD HAPPEN - IT HAS BEFORE:
Could it really be conatminated with Tadalafil (Cialis)? Well, look at the article below. Hold SHIFT to open in a new window.

Entrepreneur.com

Here is another article on the contamination, the bullet in this article is where the contaminated supplements came from (CHINA!).

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/health/03pill.html

EVIDENCE PAL MIGHT NOT BE HONEST - SIDE EFFECTS:

Quote from website selling the product:
"In terms of negative side-effects, there are no negatives."

Here is a post from a Palo Alto rep: "Also, the reason for the headaches is believed to be the lack of 100% selectivity of PDE5. Its PDE1 inhibition that is probably responsible for the headache due to the high expression of PDE1 in the cerebral vasculature endothelium. It may also inhibit PDE1 to a small extent, which would in turn give you a headache. The same goes for the pharm PDE5 inhibitors (viagra, cialis etc..), none are 100% selective for PDE5."

So there ARE side effects? Why are they not on the website?

So...???

[taylhis]

Originally Posted by Beau

Speculation can be very irresponsible. Some years ago, there was "speculation" by a certain German brewer regarding the employees of a competing (imported) Mexican brewer using the beer vats as urinals; thus - the skunk-like aroma. Several million dollars later (which came out of the German brewer's coffers), the effect of this speculation was over come. Get it?

Not fair. Not cool.

It can be, that doesn't mean it is in this case... And it is not in this case. What harm can be done? You have to use weighted guidance.

IF I AM WRONG:
What is the worst that can happen? A few people might hesitate buying Aspire 36... Maybe.

IF I AM RIGHT:
People could be in DANGER.

I weighed my options. I would rather post, be wrong, and have PAL (and you) mad at me than not post and have someone take a risk they could not afford.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by taylhis

It can be, that doesn't mean it is in this case... And it is not in this case. What harm can be done? You have to use weighted guidance.

IF I AM WRONG:
What is the worst that can happen? A few people might hesitate buying Aspire 36... Maybe.

IF I AM RIGHT:
People could be in DANGER.

I weighed my options. I would rather post, be wrong, and have PAL (and you) mad at me than not post and have someone take a risk they could not afford.

If you are wrong, you may have legal liability for damages, lost goodwill, foregone profits, etc. That isn't something I would jump into.

[taylhis]

Actually, PAL should embrace this "speculation" if they have nothing to hide. I would promote it -- "SO POWERFUL PEOPLE ARE CONVINCED THERE HAS TO BE DRUGS!"

[taylhis]

Originally Posted by Beau

If you are wrong, you may have legal liability for damages, lost goodwill, foregone profits, etc. That isn't something I would jump into.

Nope. I will not be and cannot be. I state nothing as fact that is not... I am not worried a bit. And if I'm right?

[Beau]

Originally Posted by taylhis

Nope. I will not be and cannot be. I state nothing as fact that is not... I am not worried a bit. And if I'm right?

It doesn't have to be fact ....., that is the problem. By their context, statements can raise sufficient question/concern.

You might want to check a little more ....

[Zombie]

it seems that this is not the first place and he copy and pasted his first post to other forums

http://www.google.com/search?q=taylh...hl=en&safe=off

[EasyEJL]

So then we can speculate that Taylhis is working for a company with a competitive product, and is inciting trouble for PAL to try and pimp his own crap.

[dsade]

OMGitsMaxx does get around.

[Palo Alto Labs]

Originally Posted by taylhis

Ok. I got 2 more samples of Aspire 36 from the vendor who originally sent them to me and was ready to give it a try. But my friend who is a chemist at Sun Pharma (right down the street from me) was interested in "having a look" at the Aspire 36 and I am really convinced that this stuff is not what it seems. So I will let you know what he finds but right off the bat he sent me an email (it's subject is C22H19N3O4 - WTF is THAT!) so I am going to his bullet point along with some of my follow up.

From John: None of the listed components of Aspire 36 have been shown to inhibit PDE5. Based on the effects and the side effects you mentioned it sounds like Tadalafil contamination. I will check it for you.

HERE ARE MY POINTS ON JOHN'S BULLET:
Schizandra fruits or berries are chock-full of lignans, which have been shown to thwart liver damage, arouse liver repair and kindle normal liver functioning, somewhat due to its antioxidant like abilities. Studies have shown that Schizandra may be useful as a mild stimulant, liver protective, anti-depressant, antioxidant, adaptogen and cardiac tonic. However, you may wish to note it has not been shown to be a sexuality booster.

Danshen has a history of being used in Chinese medicine to address heart conditions and strokes; and some research studied support its value in these areas. It has also being studied as a way to impede the development of liver fibrosis. While this is clearly an element that may augment health, here too its primary ability is not enhancing sexual desire, potency or performance.

Huang Qi is also known as Astragalus, which has been used as a potent immune booster. It has been used extensively to address the common cold and respiratory infections, as well as to augment blood cell production in those who are undergoing chemotherapy or radiation therapy. Astragalus is also thought to be an antibacterial, antiviral, a liver tonic, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and a diuretic.

Oleic acid is the most common Omega 9 fatty acid. This fatty acid is essential, but it is not considered an EFA (essential fatty acid) because the human body can manufacture a limited amount of it if other EFA’s are present. Omega 9 is found in olive, canola, and grapeseed, peanut, safflower and sunflower oils; however, other sources are avocados, peanuts, peanut butter, nuts and seeds. Monosaturated Oleic Acid lowers heart attack risk, arteriosclerosis, and can aid in cancer prevention.

Ophioglossum Thermale Extract is a plant without much chemical knowledge but with much history. NONE of it is for sexual purpose. What chemical are they extracting from the Ophioglossum Thermale? It has not been shown to be a PDE5 inhibitor.

The other components I will not touch upon because they obviously would not cause the effects of Aspire 36. Arginine could help but not to this capacity.

Could it really be conatminated with Tadalafil (Cialis)? Well, look at the article below. Hold SHIFT to open in a new window.

Entrepreneur.com

Here is another article on the contamination, the bullet in this article is where the contaminated supplements came from (CHINA!).

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/health/03pill.html

NOW LET'S LOOK AT THE SIDE EFFECTS.

Tadalafil has been used in approximately 15,000 men participating in clinical trials, and over 8 million men wordwide (primarily in the post-approval/post-marketing setting). The most common side effects when using tadalafil are headache, indigestion, back pain, muscle aches, flushing, and stuffy or runny nose. These side effects reflect the ability of PDE5 inhibition to vasodilate (cause blood vessels to widen) and usually go away after a few hours. Back pain and muscle aches can occur 12 to 24 hours after taking the drug, and the symptom usually disappears after 48 hours.

All of these have been reported on this and other forums as side effects of Aspire 36.

Now sure, if Aspire 36 has some secret PDE5 inhibitor, you would expect some of those side effects.

The occurrence of adverse drug reactions (ADRs) with PDE5 inhibitors appears to be dose related. Headache is a very common ADR, occurring in >10% of patients. Other common ADRs include: dizziness, flushing, dyspepsia, nasal congestion or rhinitis.

Notice something there? "Headache is a very common ADR, occurring in >10% of patients."

Well, if headache is a common side effect of PDE5 inhibition and Aspire 36 is a PDE5 inhibitor then how can their website claim...

"Q: Are there any side-effects?
A: Yes! Aspire36 causes incredibly intense and long lasting sexual activity.
In terms of negative side-effects, there are no negatives. Aspire36 is made up of all natural herbal ingredients. There are no pharmaceutical or stimulant ingredients like yohimbe or caffeine in Aspire36 that could raise your blood pressure or make you jittery, irritable, or uncomfortable. You may possibly feel a slight flush while using the product, as this is a result of dramatically increased blood flow."
But of course, the Palo Alto guys themselves admit there are headaches. Here is a post from a Palo Alto rep on another fourm -- when someone questioned the components of Aspire 36...

"The main active ingredient is Ophioglossum Thermale Extract. We are the sole importers of this ingredient in the US.....this is one reason you won't find much by simply googling it.

Our manufacturer tried it, and thought the same thing. They made us test it on 5 different occasions for pharm drugs, and never found a trace.

Also, the reason for the headaches is believed to be the lack of 100% selectivity of PDE5. Its PDE1 inhibition that is probably responsible for the headache due to the high expression of PDE1 in the cerebral vasculature endothelium. It may also inhibit PDE1 to a small extent, which would in turn give you a headache. The same goes for the pharm PDE5 inhibitors (viagra, cialis etc..), none are 100% selective for PDE5."

So there ARE side effects? Why are they not on the website?

Also, notice the strange response to the component question the PAL rep says "We are the sole importers of this ingredient in the US.....this is one reason you won't find much by simply googling it."

Does that raise a red flag for you!? I know China and they never export to only one company and if they had discovered a breakthrough in herbal medicine it would be well known.

Also his quote here "Our manufacturer tried it, and thought the same thing. They made us test it on 5 different occasions for pharm drugs, and never found a trace."

Isn't the manufacturer MANUFACTURING IT!? So they would KNOW what was in it. Maybe a distributor would or the private labeling / bottling company if they use one, but the manufacturer!? WHO is the manufacturer? CAN WE SEE THESE TEST RESULTS?

WHY would the "manufacturer" have PAL themselves get it tested vs. doing their own testing...? They're just going to trust what PAL says is a result?

SO, DOES PALO ALTO LABS HAVE A PDE5 INHIBITOR THAT WORKS 36 HOURS, HAS NO SIDE EFFECTS (AS STATED ON THEIR WEBSITE), AND USES A PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN NATURAL CHEMICAL TO CAUSE THE DESIRED EFFECT? YOU DECIDE.

I will wait to hear from John before I put that in my system. I am not trying to rip on PAL. I want the thing to work with little side effects and ALL NATURAL components. I really do hope it does! If so, what a great thing that would be for the many men who suffer from ED and from the many more who are looking for a sensual boost!

For now, my GUESS is that PAL is importing something from China and they believe it to be Ophioglossum Thermale Extract but it is actually something else. A quick google and you will see many companies in China are willing to export tadalafil as something else. Seach for "import tadalafil from china" and you will see. Contact the companies and you will see you can get it as "Beetle Extract", "Deer Penis" (WTF!), even "Tibetan yak testicle extract" (OH MY!).

After all, it turned out TOYS from China were contaminated with LEAD. Would you really trust putting something "new and undiscovered" that only one company is importing from CHINA in your body?

Per your other post, you have taken viagra and cialis and they work for you...

per your other 28 posts.. you have ZERO effects from aspire36... you got more effect from yohimbine


damn.. did i just destroy your theory??!! i dont know why you seem to care to spend all your time trying to badmouth PAL...


awaiting your lab results... ive got labs for every batch and they all show ziltch.


ALSO who is your 'friend' and what access does he have to the proper testing equipment...? Does he work for a lab? which one?
you seem to be up to no good lately....cant wait to see why

[john123131]

hahaha...i seriously think this is funny....Hidden agenda?..no?..lol...gimme a break bro, get your tests done, love to see em.....until then shut up and think before you speak.

Didnt you make a thread...Aspire 36 1 out of 10??..and now its Cialis?...im confused bro.

Your clearly trying to slander our name or you would PM me about this rather then make a thread with these claims. Your intentions are obvious.
Best of luck to you in the future...
Bobby

[Zombie]

it seems that hes just a troll and its directing his trollness towards PAL, he hasnt posted in others topics other than his 2 threads of Aspire