Acacia Rigidula (herb in 7-phenyl) is a natural source of amphetamine and methamphetamine (among other phenethylamines), according to a study done in 1998. Looking for the actual study, but not finding.

BAM!! Got it.

http://uvalde.tamu.edu/pdf/chemtdaf.pdf

Question.. for those who use the benedryl after using clen or ephedrine, do you come off the products totally when trying to reenergize your receptors?

Curious cause Im ceasing all supplementation and getting my body back to normal

Better sleep equals better recovery....period

When you sleep your body enters recovery mode. Recovery mode is also known as protein-synthesis, the coversion of proteins into muscle for the purpose of regeneration of the used muscle from the human workday, or as we do our workouts in the gym. Benedry helps this process because it causes a deeper sleep due to its lethargy side effects, and its anti-cholenergic properties. When you are in deep sleep your REM levels are at their fastest/highest. REMS trigger protein-synthesis. Which is why in the body building world we stress good amounts of sleep, and to not sleep is virtually wasting your workout. Ever wonder why we need those awesome power naps during the day when we really push ourselves at the gym?...(even though most of us working people cant afford a noontime nap) Getting good sleep for recovery is why GHB was so big in the workout world. Hope this helps.

get the liquid benadryl and not the tablets, less groginess and better onset of delivery

so wait why do people take benadryl and ephedrine together?

I, too, have been taking 6mg melatonin and 50mg diphenhydramine before bed. Found it in a single-dose gel-cap...

I like it to keep a regular sleep schedule. I would agree that the reason you're likely experiencing better recovery is because your sleep quality has increased.

Edit: the diphen is the only thing in the gel-cap, btw.

I dont understand what the benefit of taking benedryl when using ephedrine is.

Originally Posted by mrchristian

I dont understand what the benefit of taking benedryl when using ephedrine is.

I've heard this referred to as the 'Coastguard ****tail', because members of the Coastguard would take diphenhydramine to ward off sea sickness and a dose of ephedrine to counter the drowsiness caused by the diphenhydramine.

For athletes using ephedrine, taking diphenhydramine separately can help stop the down-regulation of the beta-adrenergic receptors, which would result in tolerance to ephedrine.

This is the reason people take diphenhydramine with ephedrine:

Ketotifen has some proof to show it upregulates B2 adrenergic receptors, the same receptors clen acts on, as a result, people will run it with clen to increase/prolong the effects.

Now here's where the bro logic kicks in:

Since Keto is an antihistamine then all antihistamines must upregulate b2 receptors-->Ephedrine effects beta receptors/causing an eventual down regulation-->Using diphenhydramine will prolong/increase the effects of ephedrine.

Problem is, ephedrine effects a lot of adrenoreceptors, it is not selective like clen is. With the keto/benadryl deal, people are confusing correlation with causation, I can not however say that this doesn't work, just that I haven't seen any actual proof for it.

As for the sedative/narcotic effects of benadryl, I can say that when naive to the effects of diphenhydramine, it is most similar to benzo's at a dose of 25-100, it becomes hallucinogenic at higher dosages, but not the good kind of hallucinogenic. DXM is an NMDA antagonist if I remember correctly, I can say that it is mildly hallucinogenic at a dosage of 200mg, but is more of a euphoric/intoxicant, its when you start getting up into the stratosphere on dosages that things get nasty.

And yes, Lysergic Acid Diethylamide FTW

Originally Posted by arizonanewbie

I can speak from experience that dextromethorpan is no joke - highly hallucinogenic. I mean like mushrooms or acid.

Good reason. It is related to Morphine.

DO NOT try to OD on diphehydramine or dimenhydrinate to get high. I've tried it before and holy Christ did that suck. Just smoke weed to "aid" in your muscle recovery. (Ie. Put You To SLeep.)

Originally Posted by flobot

DO NOT try to OD on diphehydramine or dimenhydrinate to get high. I've tried it before and holy Christ did that suck. Just smoke weed to "aid" in your muscle recovery. (Ie. Put You To SLeep.)

Its a deliriant in high doses, like nutmeg.

It's not a "fun" high, more like a "psychotic break" high. You spend the time hoping and praying your brain returns to normal.

Most people that experiment with deliriants don't do it again for this reason, and find the experience very unpleasant.

Yeah, that's exactly how it felt. It's like a fearful paranoia, very opposite of the 'chill' paranoia you might get from weed.

I heard that Benadryl and Gravol (dimenhydrinate) put something in them in purpose so as to prevent people from abusing them?

Last i heard i did not see any studies that backed the benadryl helped "refresh" beta 2 receptors....

Its fine in regular dose(cough syrup) if needed IMO. I wont touch it. When ever i do i get very tired and groggy, like im drunk or something. I dont like OTC much for this reason discussed by T1. Its amazing what the FDA will release.
Ill stick to our basic supps, GABA, Melatonin, L-Dopa etc...

PS- For the guy on 6mg of Melatonin, try .5mg or less. I would bet it help put you in a deeper sleep. I used to take 1.5g and it didnt seem to do much. I now just take a nibble on the tablet, about .5-.25g prolly and i have some fun dreams or nightmares(im a little scrwed up) hhahaah

Originally Posted by MentalTwitch

Last i heard i did not see any studies that backed the benadryl helped "refresh" beta 2 receptors....

Its fine in regular dose(cough syrup) if needed IMO. I wont touch it. When ever i do i get very tired and groggy, like im drunk or something. I dont like OTC much for this reason discussed by T1. Its amazing what the FDA will release.
Ill stick to our basic supps, GABA, Melatonin, L-Dopa etc...

PS- For the guy on 6mg of Melatonin, try .5mg or less. I would bet it help put you in a deeper sleep. I used to take 1.5g and it didnt seem to do much. I now just take a nibble on the tablet, about .5-.25g prolly and i have some fun dreams or nightmares(im a little scrwed up) hhahaah

true, never go above 1 mg melatonin and taking it sublingually works better.

Originally Posted by flobot

DO NOT try to OD on diphehydramine or dimenhydrinate to get high. I've tried it before and holy Christ did that suck. Just smoke weed to "aid" in your muscle recovery. (Ie. Put You To SLeep.)

This is a bad idea in my experience. I was a daily habitual smoker for a few years, and I can say anecdotally as well as from my reading that both alcohol and THC drugs (weed, hash, etc) destroy your REM sleep. You "pass out," you don't "fall asleep"...when I came off of using weed daily for years I experience what is called REM rebound...for weeks and weeks I had more than usual amounts of REM sleep.

To the guys suggesting the .5-1mg melatonin sublingually...thanks! Awesome tip!

Originally Posted by conwict

This is a bad idea in my experience. I was a daily habitual smoker for a few years, and I can say anecdotally as well as from my reading that both alcohol and THC drugs (weed, hash, etc) destroy your REM sleep. You "pass out," you don't "fall asleep"...when I came off of using weed daily for years I experience what is called REM rebound...for weeks and weeks I had more than usual amounts of REM sleep.

To the guys suggesting the .5-1mg melatonin sublingually...thanks! Awesome tip!

yeah man thats me!

Originally Posted by Foolish

This is the reason people take diphenhydramine with ephedrine:

Ketotifen has some proof to show it upregulates B2 adrenergic receptors, the same receptors clen acts on, as a result, people will run it with clen to increase/prolong the effects.

The primary action we are concerned with is beta-2 receptor activity in adipose tissue in order to maintain enhanced lipolysis and in skeletal muscle in order to increase metabolic rate. There has been no research demonstrating up-regulation of adrenoceptors in these tissues with Ketotifen. The research everyone bases this theory on was looking at lung tissue of asthmatics if i recall.

I can't remember if if was Duchaine or Gundhil that came up with the original ketotifen hypothesis back in the late 90's, but there were lots of guys who attempted using it with clen and the anecdotal reports were very inconsistent, but basically noone was very impressed.

Ketotifen probably doesn't assist in lipolysis at all and histamine receptor antagonists actually seem to have some pretty profound negative metabolic potential. Lyle McDonald has recently discussed some of this research.

Even if there is some merit to the theory, bothering with this is pointless with proper EC use as there is no real evidence of meaningful down-regulation. EC studies of up to 6 months have demonstrated a continuous elevated metabolic rate - which far longer than it takes for severe down-regulation in response to potent selective agonists like clen.

Basically, if you have allergies that require anti-histamines in order to manage then take what you need, but these drugs are more likley to waste your money or even inhibit your progress from a body composition standpoint.

Is it correct that using Diphenhydramine effects testosterone levels? And if so by how much?

It`d be a real bummer if your taking supps to increase test,but,are effecting it by taking Diphenhydramine for sleep.

Originally Posted by michael75

Is it correct that using Diphenhydramine effects testosterone levels? And if so by how much?

It`d be a real bummer if your taking supps to increase test,but,are effecting it by taking Diphenhydramine for sleep.

i havent heard of that

Originally Posted by zaosha

The primary action we are concerned with is beta-2 receptor activity in adipose tissue in order to maintain enhanced lipolysis and in skeletal muscle in order to increase metabolic rate. There has been no research demonstrating up-regulation of adrenoceptors in these tissues with Ketotifen. The research everyone bases this theory on was looking at lung tissue of asthmatics if i recall.

I can't remember if if was Duchaine or Gundhil that came up with the original ketotifen hypothesis back in the late 90's, but there were lots of guys who attempted using it with clen and the anecdotal reports were very inconsistent, but basically noone was very impressed.

Ketotifen probably doesn't assist in lipolysis at all and histamine receptor antagonists actually seem to have some pretty profound negative metabolic potential. Lyle McDonald has recently discussed some of this research.

Even if there is some merit to the theory, bothering with this is pointless with proper EC use as there is no real evidence of meaningful down-regulation. EC studies of up to 6 months have demonstrated a continuous elevated metabolic rate - which far longer than it takes for severe down-regulation in response to potent selective agonists like clen.

Basically, if you have allergies that require anti-histamines in order to manage then take what you need, but these drugs are more likley to waste your money or even inhibit your progress from a body composition standpoint.

Good post.

Anti-histamines are counter productive to the fed state.These drugs induce hunger in spite of a caloric intake at maintainence or a surplus.

Hmm OK. I am confused.

Originally Posted by thorcram

Hmm OK. I am confused.

So. Is it good for receptors. Clear or down regulate them?
Take it or don`t take it for this reason?