Adderall and bodybuilding

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    OMG bro, you like, don't know what the **** you're talking about!

    The misuse of any psychostimulant has the potential to induce permanent psychosis, depression, Tourette-like symptoms, and schizophrenia due to manner in which XR, dextroamphetamine and others interact with dopamine/serotonin receptors and receptor sub-types. The fact is, anybody recreationally using Adderall/Dexadrine/Ridalin is adversely affecting their brain's ability for norepinephrine, dopaminergic, and serotonergic synthesis and transmission; these classifications of amphetamine derivatives and salts block dopaminergic reuptake for the most part, an incredibly adverse condition to be in if not needed.

    Without a need for Adderall/Ritalin/Dexadrine, you are overdosing. Period. In fact, the misuse of any of these RX medications may cause degradations of neurons in the PFC - not necessarily something you want to induce.

    The inhibited reuptake of serotonin, and imbalance in dopaminergic synthesis, and transport induced by XR/R/DX misuse can easily produce disassociative and hallucinogenic states, as well as 'tics' as they are known by TS sufferers.
    I could be wrong, but my reading of posts puts us all in agreement that recreational misuse is a dangerous and irresponsible thing.

    Where clinical need exists (for ADHD - which is real, albeit completely overdiagnosed, or narcolepsy) the responsible use of adderall can be indicated.

    Many don't think ADHD exists because they've never really met someone with ADHD - just someone misdiagnosed with it.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I could be wrong, but my reading of posts puts us all in agreement that recreational misuse is a dangerous and irresponsible thing.

    Where clinical need exists (for ADHD - which is real, albeit completely overdiagnosed or narcolepsy [though I prefer provigil]) the responsible use of adderall can be indicated.

    Many don't think ADHD exists because they've never really met someone with ADHD - just someone misdiagnosed with it.
    Agreed, thats why I told mullet to reread the post.. Thanks for your clear thinking...
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    I could be wrong, but my reading of posts puts us all in agreement that recreational misuse is a dangerous and irresponsible thing.

    Where clinical need exists (for ADHD - which is real, albeit completely overdiagnosed, or narcolepsy) the responsible use of adderall can be indicated.

    Many don't think ADHD exists because they've never really met someone with ADHD - just someone misdiagnosed with it.
    He was insinuating that no negative side-effects are associated with recreational dosing; unless prescribed due to a need, the dose is recreational.

    Neuropeptides, and neurotransmitters are not tinker toys - even small dosages of amphetamine derivatives present a tangible (though somewhat unlikely) possibility for adverse side-effects.

    He was brushing aside the possibility for negative connotations, and such is not the case.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    He was insinuating that no negative side-effects are associated with recreational dosing; unless prescribed due to a need, the dose is recreational.

    Neuropeptides, and neurotransmitters are not tinker toys - even small dosages of amphetamine derivatives present a tangible (though somewhat unlikely) possibility for adverse side-effects.

    He was brushing aside the possibility for negative connotations, and such is not the case.
    Incorrect... I specifically said that if you have libido etc. issues, your tweaking, i.e. you are high on the substance, i.e. you are taking too much, it is no longer therapeutic. I brushed aside nothing... Just admit you misinterpreted the posting....

  5. Like I said..

    If used responsibly there are no withdrawal issues, or negative side effects, meaning you take it only when you need it, like for studying etc. etc.
    Need is defined by the presence of increased dopaminergic transmission in the PFC; this is the point of such drugs: to inhibit reuptake to produce concentration and motivation.

    Recreational use can produce side-effects no matter what - neurohormones aren't tinker toys.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Like I said..



    Need is defined by the presence of increased dopaminergic transmission in the PFC; this is the point of such drugs: to inhibit reuptake to produce concentration and motivation.

    Recreational use can produce side-effects no matter what - neurohormones aren't tinker toys.
    No not like you said...

    If used responsibly infers that responsible use only occurs when taken at the lowest therapeutic dosages for a legitimate need as diagnosed under DSM IV criteria. I also advocated use only when needed for the symptoms of ADD or ADHD. Your point is moot and I am done here... Have at it...

  7. heavies you're an idiot.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by sreed11 View Post
    heavies you're an idiot.
    You've seen the light my son.

  9. Ok a little bit about what it actually does do. I myself am ADD and have a prescription for it. First of all yes it will help you lose weight. Of course everyone knows about the lack of appetite and it also is basically a kick ass thermogenic. But like everyone says it's just not worth it. For me not because of the addictive properties. I've never had a problem with that and only use it for big tests like it is supposed to. The real problem with it is it's hormonal effects. First of all it Seriously blunts GH release. So even though it is burning fat, it's not burning it in the right way, and you will sacrifice muscle. Also through some path that i don't quite understand it blocks or inhibits testosterone. Try taking it for a while and you'll see that you basically need pct when coming off. Forget about getting a hard-on with this stuff. And then just to throw it in people do get addicted. It's just not worth it.

  10. It never has been addicting to me at all, I got tons of it at home and hate taking it. I took it for 3 years and was really skinny never ate. O well. I hate the stuff and refuse to take it. (im ADD lol)

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    He was insinuating that no negative side-effects are associated with recreational dosing; unless prescribed due to a need, the dose is recreational.
    I believe you are the one misinterpreting his post. Lets go back to it.

    Most idiot Dr.'s prescribe way to high a dose for most people. People should start at the bottom rung 5 mg 2x/day. Not at 20 or 30 or more 2x/day. If used responsibly there are no withdrawal issues, or negative side effects, meaning you take it only when you need it, like for studying etc. etc. Get a freaking grip people! This is pissing me off.....
    From what I read, he is stating that once prescribed (meaning a doctor thinks that your symptoms are consistent with the symptoms of add/adhd sufferers) the medication, you should take the LOWEST dosage needed.

    He also states if you take a higher dosage (again, this is with a DIAGNOSIS of the disease, NOT recreational), odds are it will induce negative side effects. Believe it or not, regardless of whether or not it is recreational (abusing), or via a legitimate diagnosis, a higher dose WILL induce side effects regardless of which camp you are in.

    Way to be mature mullet and sreed11, you had my respect up until now (I still believe you are highly intelligent mullet, I just think you misread his post, and are sticking to your first interpretation of it).

  12. If you snort about 30-40mg you'll be able to drink a liter of vodka in one night; not that anyone should ever do that under any circumstances.
    Last edited by Rugger; 08-11-2008 at 07:54 PM.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by ecu19 View Post
    I believe you are the one misinterpreting his post. Lets go back to it.



    From what I read, he is stating that once prescribed (meaning a doctor thinks that your symptoms are consistent with the symptoms of add/adhd sufferers) the medication, you should take the LOWEST dosage needed.

    He also states if you take a higher dosage (again, this is with a DIAGNOSIS of the disease, NOT recreational), odds are it will induce negative side effects. Believe it or not, regardless of whether or not it is recreational (abusing), or via a legitimate diagnosis, a higher dose WILL induce side effects regardless of which camp you are in.

    Way to be mature mullet and sreed11, you had my respect up until now (I still believe you are highly intelligent mullet, I just think you misread his post, and are sticking to your first interpretation of it).
    I re-read this thread and I still don't get how you came to your conclusions.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    I re-read this thread and I still don't get how you came to your conclusions.
    he said that docs prescibe dosages. Being prescribed and taking it at the prescribed dosage indicates responsible use, not abuse or recreational use. He is stating that docs today are simply starting at higher dosages, instead of starting low and upping the dosage to access tolerance to side effects. The usual way to do it is to start low, and slowly work the dosage up to a good dosage. And since docs prescribe it at a higher dosage, side effects are sure to follow (this is a powerful amphetamine we are talking about here).

    Much like the way the clen users on this board start at 20mcg and up the dosage to a perfect level just below the sides, not just "starting out" at 200mcg.

    Is that more clear?

  15. Just my .02. I have ADHD and am prescribed 60 mgs a day. When I first began using Adderall i abused my prescription and lost almost all of my muscle due to appetite suppression combined with the increased metabolic rate. When used correctly and at the correct dose and in the correct manner then Adderall can be helpful. However, I do not believe the drug should be used as a bodybuilding supplement in any way. If it has beneficial side effects for an individual when taken in treatment of ADD or ADHD then that is wonderful, but it should not be used for those side effects alone.

    If you use this chemical please be careful. It does have heinous sides, but can be very helpful for individuals with attention difficulties.

    If anyone has questions about Adderall use feel free to PM me.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    Many don't think ADHD exists because they've never really met someone with ADHD - just someone misdiagnosed with it.
    true.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    If you snort about 30-40mg you'll be able to drink a liter of vodka in one night; not that anyone should ever do that under any circumstances.
    done that but drank about 25 beers and whatever else i could get my hands on........then again, seems that was common for college

  18. Can adderall be taken with methyl steriods ?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Svgeman View Post
    Can adderall be taken with methyl steriods ?
    sounds like you are on the road to good health. sarcasm of course. why would you not take amphetamines and steroids at the same time? its easy watch (pop 2 pills) , that wasnt hard. your bloodpressure will be through the friggin roof and you might go on a delusional psychopathic rampage but hey, you will look good doing it.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dynomite View Post
    sounds like you are on the road to good health. sarcasm of course. why would you not take amphetamines and steroids at the same time? its easy watch (pop 2 pills) , that wasnt hard. your bloodpressure will be through the friggin roof and you might go on a delusional psychopathic rampage but hey, you will look good doing it.

    I only ask because I actually have a real case of add and have a 10mg per day script for it . I really do need and get no buzz or whatever from it . I ask because I didn't know if it was liver toxic or not. I stopped taking it for my cycle and life sucks without it , I can't focus on anything for more than 2 seconds.

  21. in all honesty man i will never recommend any methyls to anyone. my life is a prime example of why one should not do methyls.

    after just a couple cycles my hair is now thinning. my libido has never fully recovered although according to doctors my test levels are normal. and also my cardio is horrible now as i believe i must have done some damage to my cardiovascualr system. mind you my last cylce was 5 years ago and my life has not been the same since.

    i used to be prescribed adderal as well. i was misdiagnosed. i am familiar with both of these drugs i speak of. in all honesty i believe the adderal is safer than methyls. however after an extended period of time adderal does some serious damage that takes time to recover from. however if you need it, hey you need it. kind of sucks for you. i know my libido was not very good when i was on adderal and if you get on a steroid at the same time you might be asking for trouble. here is a list of a few risks.

    permanant impotence (damage from high blodd pressure)
    temporary impotence (this would be unavoidable taking both these compounds)
    heart attack (both compounds mess with your cardio system)
    stroke
    serious neurotransmitter problems (both these compounds effect your hypothalimus and pituitary big time, your brain will be all ****ed up with the various hormones and nuero transmitters)

    and i am sure a whole lote more but i am only speaking from experience. i am sure if you did some research youwould find a ton more problems.

  22. Strong brotelligence in this thread.

    Amphetamine is not methamphetamine

    Amphetamine= Alpha Methyl Phenylethylamine

    Methamphetamine= N, Alpha Dimethyl Phenylethylamine

    For contrast:

    Ephedrine= N, Alpha Dimethyl Beta Hydroxy Phenylethylamine

    Is ephedrine meth? No, its not. But it is very chemically close.
    (The perscription name for D-Methamphetamine is desoxyn, short for desoxy ephedrine)

    Furthermore the levo and dextro isomers of these compounds produce significantly different effects. In both cases The D-isomer is more psychoactive, which is why more ADD drugs are being standardized to just the Dextro, rather than the racemic DL-mixture seen in adderall.

    Don't believe me? Go to your nearest Walgreens, look around for the vicks nose inhalers, the active ingredient is L-Methamphetamine, but they use strange nomenclature so that kids dont say "hey its meth" and eat the cotton. If any of you are foolish or bold enough to crack open the inhaler and eat the cotton, you will see that you are definitely not "tweaking".

    With regards to muscle loss, it would be foolish to say that something that blunts your appetite, increases caloric expenditure, and increases cortisol might not have negative effects on muscle building, but as you stay on the drug, you become accustomed to the effects, theres no exact number but I play it safe and say 200 calories over whatever maintenance is when taking ADD meds. Which is entirely possible if you're not using the drugs to get "speedin" and completely naive to the effects of amphetamine.

    In summary, I would caution against spouting out something you heard as fact, it makes you appear ignorant, amphetamine is not an evil chemical because it shares 11 letters with methamphetamine. Because of its effects on neurotransmitters (as an earlier poster pointed out) it is not a drug to mess around with, its not just a simple energy pill. Do not treat it as such.


    P.S: 30mg Vyvanse qd AM has significantly improved my ability to focus, reduced my irritability, and made me a more social and confident person.

  23. This is a hard drug we're talking about, not an "over the counter" drug or something you should use for fun.

    You might as well have asked about "Coke and bodybuilding" or "meth and bodybuilding" or "MDMA and bodybuilding."

    Yes, there are people who need it, and there is such thing as a THERAPEUTIC dose. If you are one of those people, stop trying to be your own doctor and stick with the recommended dose.

    If you are not one of those people and you are justifying reasons to take it, you'd better watch yourself.

  24. I agree totally. Its because these freakin doctors want to turn this country into a drug addicted nanny state, full of people who can't fend for themselves. And these morons buy right into it.
    This is patently false. There is such thing as ADD, and while it is GROSSLY OVERDIAGNOSED in kids, if they really have ADD then getting them on Adderall/Ritalin as soon as possible is literally therapeutic and they are less likely to need the drugs later in life AND reduces the chances that they will become drug addicted.

    There is cutting-edge research that confirms this. It's very easy to snipe at Rx drugs and the drug industry, and while it has its shortcomings, there ARE niches and uses for anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, ADD drugs, etc.

  25. PS - sreed, long time love line listener right here.

    I really do think that ADD/ADHD is a bull**** disease. I've actually read some stuff stating that the symptoms are actually very similar to what happens to people if they experience Above average intelligence, Under Nutrition, Abuse/Neglect, Stressful Home, Poor Parenting, and a few other learning disorders (quoted from the following page=http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/47006).

    To be totally honest I am pretty sure I have, and was experiencing those sort of things when I was a kid and diagnosed with ADD. So amphetamines are basically a very poor band-aid solution to the problem without addressing the root causes
    Unfortunately you're PARTIALLY right...but there IS such thing as ADD. My guess is you've done about 20 minutes of research on this and thought about it at your leisure. I agree with your assessment of overdiagnosis, etc, but there is really such a thing as ADD. Lots of disorders have "mimics"...drug-induced psychosis LOOKS like schizophrenia, which can LOOK like a manic state due to bipolar, which can LOOK like extreme OCD, which can LOOK like PTSD...and on and on and on.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Foolish View Post

    P.S: 30mg Vyvanse qd AM has significantly improved my ability to focus, reduced my irritability, and made me a more social and confident person.
    How would you compare Vyvanase to Adderall? I currently take 20 mg XR qd am and 0 - 10 mg qd pm as needed.

    Great post BTW.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by rick055 View Post
    How would you compare Vyvanase to Adderall? I currently take 20 mg XR qd am and 0 - 10 mg qd pm as needed.

    Great post BTW.
    Vyvanse is the smoothest ADD drug by a long shot, for me the 30 is a little low (ends up dying out at about 8 hours instead of 12) but I'm probably gonna have to switch to dexedrine cause vyvanse is so goddamn expensive) Adderall XR had too many peaks and valleys for me but is still a hell of a lot better than the IR stuff.

    And thanks.

  28. The use of adderall has never seemed more appealing to me than right now, as I was forced to withdraw from my old college this semester (mid-semester) due to low grades as a result, of course, of lack of motivation and ability to focus DURING class, let alone on my time. I'm currently doing an 8-week semester and having obvious trouble with the pace already. It sucks when you finally have to realize that all those years of harmless marijuana smoking may have actually done some damage to your attention and cognitive abilities. I've been clean 3 months and still feel these effects. Is that ADD? This thread, luckily, has steered me away from them, or at least dulled the compulsive urges to talk to my general practioner about ADD. Healthier options to treat attention problems? Any suggestions? I got a 30 on my ACT as a junior in high school, but if you asked me if I could do that 3 years later, I'd honestly have to say I don't believe I could. I could be trying to give myself an excuse for an easy way out though, who really knows.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by indianballer View Post
    The use of adderall has never seemed more appealing to me than right now, as I was forced to withdraw from my old college this semester (mid-semester) due to low grades as a result, of course, of lack of motivation and ability to focus DURING class, let alone on my time. I'm currently doing an 8-week semester and having obvious trouble with the pace already. It sucks when you finally have to realize that all those years of harmless marijuana smoking may have actually done some damage to your attention and cognitive abilities. I've been clean 3 months and still feel these effects. Is that ADD? This thread, luckily, has steered me away from them, or at least dulled the compulsive urges to talk to my general practioner about ADD. Healthier options to treat attention problems? Any suggestions? I got a 30 on my ACT as a junior in high school, but if you asked me if I could do that 3 years later, I'd honestly have to say I don't believe I could. I could be trying to give myself an excuse for an easy way out though, who really knows.
    Definitely give a high grade fish oil (like a super DHA) a try for a while before you consider adding drugs.

    Also, assess your diet. High protein meal AM for sure, stay away from sugars, especially AM. Any carbs should be slow burning ones, think oatmeal.

  30. An appropriate and prescribed dose of Adderall XR should be helpful in bodybuilding to those who are suffering from symptoms of ADHD.

    Adderall will help an ADD/ADHD patient arrive at the gym and so it will be eaiser for them to get into a routine. There are psychological benefits to adderall (motivation, focus) but I believe stimulants are cardiologically disadvantegous.

    While under the influence of stimulants like coffee or Adderall, less work can be done before your heart becomes overwhelmed. I believe it's more effective to exercise/lift while relaxed, with a low heart rate, and even while drowsy. After a couple of sets, natural adrenaline should kick in and subside drowsiness.

    For fat loss, I believe there are substantially better solutions available that are specifically designed by smart people who realize that an effective product will make money so there is that corporate incentive to design a great product working in your favor (Clenbutrx? SlimXtreme?)

    Adderall does not have a great application in bodybuilding unless you're an ADHD patient. If an ADD/ADHD patient takes a morning dose of Adderall XR, a great time to go to the gym would be about 12 hours after the morning dose (Just a suggestion/opinion). NO2 may help to lower blood pressure during workouts, so if you're using stimulants, consider stacking NO2.

    If you're in excellent cardiovascular shape (low blood pressure, low resting heart-rate), then perhaps you do not notice any diminishment of your intensity? Even so, I hypothesize that when you push the heart too hard it will hold you back until it can regain a more comfortable operating rate.

    I see the use of stimulants for metabolic/appetite supressive reasons but other than that I see stimulants to be primarily psychologicially advantageous with disadvantages to your heart rate.
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