Using prescribed benzo's for other benefits.
- 01-26-2005, 03:26 PM
Using prescribed benzo's for other benefits.
Coming off a cycle at the moment and trying to limit cortisol and overall stress. As some know, this can be VERY hard to do. Especially when you have outside stress on top of your own.
I have looked into other means of combatting cortisol and the like through all the newer supps such as ab-solved, 7-oxo dermals, etc. and they relly just don't seem to help. I have also looked at the newer exotic compounds such as sledge's 7-oxo type products but I just can't afford them.
However, I am prescribed ativan, lorazepam, etc. every once in a while as I have (at times) mood swings, stressful pasts, etc. I usually try and stay away from these meds as much as possible and really I only use them for about 10 days out of a whole year.
But now I'm considering implementing them for my PCT at times when I'm getting stressed and know that my body is/will be paying for it. Does anybody have any insight as to how these could benefit me, or rather any useful info at all?
Also, when I take them, I usually feel very worn down, but albeit calmer....and I'm even thinking that they may be counterproductive in ways....any help here?? Thx...
- 01-27-2005, 10:23 AM
No, Ativan is actually a great idea. All the benzo's reduce cortisol levels, but Ativan especially. It's anti-catabolic, I take it after w/o.
- 01-27-2005, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by DR.D
01-27-2005, 05:54 PM
I agree in part, I think the best ime to take them is at night. Maybe you should decrease your dose and put them under your tongue, let em dissolve there. I have noticed a decrease in muscle tone using them but its temporary and dose dependant, the less the better at one dose a day IMO
01-27-2005, 06:25 PM
True. They are muscle relaxants at high enough doses, so rest assured that the loss of tone is not any loss of strength. Lorazepam has a nice, short half life and is perfect for this app. Valium is nice and short too, but makes me tired and kind of woozy. Xanax or Klonipin reach steady state even with one dose a day and are not as well suited. 1-1.5mg sublingual is usually all I need. I've used it for the last 10 years or so and can testify to it's usefullness.Originally Posted by Knowbull
01-27-2005, 08:07 PM
Good point! Another one to keep in mind is that some people can become addicted to em and that can enhance catabolism, (if you dont have em) when you withdraw. It is so sad to watch those muscles vanish.
01-28-2005, 12:34 AM
Yeah, I took two 1mg sublingual tablets today and I could definatley feel my muscles looked flatter than normal. Although it really helped me out during the last 8 or so hours. I can relax more and feel altogether just more calmer/less adjitaded(sp)
Will probably just use them for like twice/week until my PCT completes...
01-28-2005, 04:19 PM
Another drug that has a anti-cortisol/general relaxing ability , that's less sedating and addictive than the benzos, and is both easier to get and cheaper to order than the Benzos is Phenytoin, more commonly known by it's brandname, Dilantin.
50 -100mgs of Dilantin used a couple of times a week has a lot of positive benefits.
01-28-2005, 04:57 PM
2 mg would put me out for 24 hours, I usually only use .5. Ive never heard that about dilantin its interesting though
01-28-2005, 05:11 PM
Here's a page of data on the uses of Phenytoin.
I agree with Jack Dreyfus, my experience with and study of Dilantin suggests it's a pretty remarkable bioelectrical stabilizing agent to keep one's body in stasis.
People say that Dilantin has sides, it does, but generally only if one has take doses above 200mgs everyday for years. High dose/ chronic use of ANY pharma will eventually have negative sides.
01-28-2005, 05:52 PM
Yeah, it takes a bit more for me when I'm trying to calm down in a short amount of time. Otherwise if I'm just taking a maintenance dose in order to stave off stressors and keep them from occuring in the first place then I can get away with a much lower mg amount.
01-28-2005, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by DR.D
Valium and its metabolites have a half-life of up to 200 hours. That is why many users can use it for years, then go a day without a dose and not begin to withdraw from the drug. Klonopin is another benzo with a very long half-life. Xanax and Ativan (lorazepam) have very similar half lives.
benzo half lives and equivalency table
I agree with everything else you've said--just wanted to clarify for those who are using different benzos.
01-28-2005, 11:48 PM
Screwbol, thanks for that last post and link! Dr.D or anyone else which benzo has the highest rate of cortisol suppression? This is interesting stuff here!
01-29-2005, 01:09 AM
Lorazepam has the most data published on it's cortisol suppressing effect, I think it's the best like this. And just to clarify that list, Xanax's t1/2 is more in the range of 6-27hr and while some week metabolites of diazepam may persist up to 200hr, for all practical apps it can be viewed and used as a short acting benzo, in effect, at least from my experience. The rest of the list is reasonably correct.
01-29-2005, 01:18 AM
01-29-2005, 01:26 AM
01-29-2005, 01:36 AM
01-29-2005, 02:27 AM
01-30-2005, 11:18 AM
Wow, thats some really interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. Got any personal feedback on phenytoin to share?Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
01-30-2005, 01:58 PM
Yeah, Rogue... tell us about the severe gum hyperplasia you have now
I knew a retarded kid on it (who was stong as a bull actually) but it never helped me in my 100mg/day trials. Wasn't there an x-pres strung out on it pretty bad?
01-30-2005, 05:39 PM
That's me, a fang toothed Trogladyte with Dilantin ClawsOriginally Posted by DR.D
The Tissue hypergrowth side effect of Dilantin dose'nt show until one has used it for everyday for years.
The reason you did'nt respond is, of course, that you are chemically insensitive to anything less than the the really hard stuff.
I don't really respond to Dilantin anymore either. I'm in the same chemically addled state of decades long developed tolerance to everything, but when I first tried Dilantin about twenty years ago, I was really impressed with it's ability to both relax and focus my mind.
01-30-2005, 06:14 PM
01-30-2005, 09:39 PM
Just ordered some, hoping it will help with the unplesant dreams ive been having since... forever... well, that and to keep the X-rays from raping my medulla and also that slew of other benefits. Thanks again.
Got any other gems (odd stuff that you take) to share Rogue, Dr. D, guys?
01-30-2005, 10:31 PM
Phenobarbital or any barbituate. Even 30mg is enough to disrupt REM sleep. I've used it to squash bad dreams before, but it's for short term use only.Originally Posted by Cosmo
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