Yeah, we certainly seem to be on the cutting edge. It would make things so much easier if it worked the other way around!

Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

Yep saw that too, it's Evista (brand name for Ralox) I liked it at 80 mg during my last cycle for gyno prevention

How were your gains IW? Toxicity is low to none with Raloxifene correct Doc? Same with Tormifene correct? Damn Nolva and Clomid I still like Clomid, but after my last bloodwork I think I will pass.

Originally Posted by Grassroots082

Toxicity is low to none with Raloxifene correct Doc? Same with Tormifene correct? Damn Nolva and Clomid I still like Clomid, but after my last bloodwork I think I will pass.

Yes, raloxifene toxicity is very low. Toremifene is low relative to the others in it's class. What did the Clomid do to your bloodwork? It doesn't allow liver enzymes a chance to drop very fast after a heavy cycle, but that's the only bad thing I ever noticed with it from PCT bloodwork.

It wasn't anything that bad, but it definately did not help.

Plus the studies about tamoxifen causing carcinogen tumors in rats livers are enough for me not to use it anymore especially now that these two SERM's are readily available (Raloxifene and Tormifene). But I definately felt like my body reacted better to the Clomid than the Nolva.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Letro 0.1-0.25mg/d, Rebound 25-50mg/d, or Nolva 10-20mg/d in that order of preference

if aromasin doesnt cause rebound they why dont you like that? because price? and im curious as to where adex would rank with you...do you not like it because it is the same as letro just not as strong? Im trying to come up with the best gyno protection on cycle, i was going to use adex and proviron (not at the same time) but where would you place proviron beginning of or ending of cycle? sorry for all the q's, hope you answer...

Originally Posted by pistonpump

if aromasin doesnt cause rebound they why dont you like that? because price? and im curious as to where adex would rank with you...do you not like it because it is the same as letro just not as strong? Im trying to come up with the best gyno protection on cycle, i was going to use adex and proviron (not at the same time) but where would you place proviron beginning of or ending of cycle? sorry for all the q's, hope you answer...

Yeah, Aromasin a good compound for sure and has once a day convenience of dosing. It's just over priced for what it does and what else is out there. I like Adex, but mg/mg letro is the easy winner. There are other differences too, but letro is just more efficient if not any more effective than dex. Proviron is hit or miss for me. It seems to work much better and cover more bases at the end of a cycle, but once again for the price it's benefits are not always consistent it seems. I guess if you took high doses it may work better, but I'm not that rich or well connected!

here is a link to a thread i just posted. its from another board stating why aromasin is the best choice anti-e. Dr D, what are your opinions on this?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/stero...tml#post605197

Originally Posted by pistonpump

here is a link to a thread i just posted. its from another board stating why aromasin is the best choice anti-e. Dr D, what are your opinions on this?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/stero...tml#post605197

The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for PCT. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for PCT. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.

Originally Posted by DR.D

The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for post cycle therapy. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.

I have run ralox my last PCT, it worked perfectly,the best sofar! I have used much Nolva in the past. I usually run it for two weeks @40 mg/ed. Could you please elaborate on the "stroke canidate" aspect of the Nolva, is that from clotting or blood pressure? thanks

Originally Posted by DR.D

Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them.

Should read that Reload can be used instead of a SERM for the PCT of a light cycle?

And how does compare "stroke candidate" potential of toremifene compared to tamoxifene? Sorry guys if this question is out of topic.

Originally Posted by DR.D

The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for PCT. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.

sorry DR. i was actually refering to on cycle as far as using aromasin and nolva. I was totally thinkin about something else but it looks like aromasin and nolva on cycle is good prevention against gyno but I will compare prices of aromasin and RXT and if the overall cycle price is lower i would probably go with RXT...wait, this anti-e thing is just confusing the f*cl< out of me, period! guess i just have to try them all out.

Originally Posted by anabolicrhino

I have run ralox my last post cycle therapy, it worked perfectly,the best sofar! I have used much Nolva in the past. I usually run it for two weeks @40 mg/ed. Could you please elaborate on the "stroke canidate" aspect of the Nolva, is that from clotting or blood pressure? thanks

Yeah, I'm with ya on the ralox, good stuff. It's just not cost effective for me but 240mg/d is very nice and very non-toxic too. Perfect half-life also. It's just very poorly bioavailable and expensive. An injectable would be sweet and take very low doses (like 5-10mg).

Yeah, clotting is one of the main complications with Nolva use. Venous thromboembolic disorders (like DVT). Nolva is classified as a known human carcinogen as well. Hmmm, maybe that why doctors only use it on people who are dieing anyway! Wake up people!! End the Nolva madness. OK, ok, I'll leave Nolva alone. I've used it a time or two myself, I'd just avoid it if you could.

Originally Posted by Rostam

Should read that Reload can be used instead of a SERM for the post cycle therapy of a light cycle?

And how does compare "stroke candidate" potential of toremifene compared to tamoxifene? Sorry guys if this question is out of topic.

I think so, yes. On a light oral only cycle of 3-4wks, a steroidal AI is just fine IMO. That's just from my experience. Everybody is different and you won't really know for yourself until you try it and see.

Toremifene does appear to carry a similar thromboembolic risk as Nolva in the North American studies, but at about 3x the dose. Plus, there not a big warning in the PDR on it's monograph page like there is for Nolva, so I trust it a bit more at this point. I take it for granted that my cholesterol stays low and my blood stays thin because I take T4 year round, but for the general pop, half an aspirin a day would not be a bad idea during PCT with any SERM.

Originally Posted by pistonpump

sorry DR. i was actually refering to on cycle as far as using aromasin and nolva. I was totally thinkin about something else but it looks like aromasin and nolva on cycle is good prevention against gyno but I will compare prices of aromasin and RXT and if the overall cycle price is lower i would probably go with RXT...wait, this anti-e thing is just confusing the f*cl< out of me, period! guess i just have to try them all out.

I really like RXT on cycle. That's my choice, or low dose letro. If a SERM is needed on cycle, ralox for sure.

I had a couple of questions about Ralox.

1.) Rebound: Should I end my gyno-reduction cycle with 60mg of Ralox or 30mg, in order to avoid rebound? (I plan on doing 120mg for the first week, followed by a cruise dose of 60mg for about 2 months.

2.) Would taking RXT during my Ralox dosing do anything? If Ralox is taking care of the estrogen receptors, what purpose would RXT serve?

*Looking in Dr. D's direction!*

Originally Posted by RenegadeRows

I had a couple of questions about Ralox.

1.) Rebound: Should I end my gyno-reduction cycle with 60mg of Ralox or 30mg, in order to avoid rebound? (I plan on doing 120mg for the first week, followed by a cruise dose of 60mg for about 2 months.

2.) Would taking RXT during my Ralox dosing do anything? If Ralox is taking care of the estrogen receptors, what purpose would RXT serve?

*Looking in Dr. D's direction!*

Ralox is lipid friendly so taking RXT at the same time would be fine if you ask me. It would give an added benefit of test enhancement and suppression of endogenous estrogen biosynthesis. 25mg stacked w/ the Ralox would be good, or not, it depends on what you're trying to achieve really. Rebound should not be a problem, but I'd still cycle off at 30mg the last wk or two just to be safe.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Ralox is lipid friendly so taking RXT at the same time would be fine if you ask me. It would give an added benefit of test enhancement and suppression of endogenous estrogen biosynthesis. 25mg stacked w/ the Ralox would be good, or not, it depends on what you're trying to achieve really. Rebound should not be a problem, but I'd still cycle off at 30mg the last wk or two just to be safe.

My goal is strictly reduction of gyno. I'm not trying to boost test levels or anything, just need to get rid of the 'nasties'.

Also Dr D, I don't have any pain per say in my nipples. Like it doesn't hurt or irritate if I play with them or squeeze em. However, if I poke the side of my chest, below my nipple there is some pain there. Does this pain signify that breast tissue is growing (gyno is getting bigger)? Thanks, I just need to get rid of this gyno and I'll be all set, I made the mistake of running 2 cycles when I knew I was prone, but all I want to do is get rid of it and move on with my lifting (naturally.)

Dr D, I'm planning a PCT for a 8 week oral cycle (Superdrol 4 weeks, Max LMG 4 weeks), and was just going to run Ralox for the 4 week PCT. Would 60mg a day be enough (cost being an issue here). If not, what about stacking it would Rebound XT or REbound Reloaded?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by solarize

Dr D, I'm planning a post cycle therapy for a 8 week oral cycle (Superdrol 4 weeks, Max LMG 4 weeks), and was just going to run Ralox for the 4 week post cycle therapy. Would 60mg a day be enough (cost being an issue here). If not, what about stacking it would Rebound XT or REbound Reloaded?

Thanks.

Yes, the stack would be best. Ral is great but that dose is probably too low for most guys after an 8 weeker. It is synergistic with an AI for sure though so 1-2 caps/d of RXT or RR would probably be perfect.

Originally Posted by RenegadeRows

My goal is strictly reduction of gyno. I'm not trying to boost test levels or anything, just need to get rid of the 'nasties'.

Also Dr D, I don't have any pain per say in my nipples. Like it doesn't hurt or irritate if I play with them or squeeze em. However, if I poke the side of my chest, below my nipple there is some pain there. Does this pain signify that breast tissue is growing (gyno is getting bigger)? Thanks, I just need to get rid of this gyno and I'll be all set, I made the mistake of running 2 cycles when I knew I was prone, but all I want to do is get rid of it and move on with my lifting (naturally.)

Same here. Bump for DR. D.

Im have been taking .5mg arimidex throughout my cycle ( @ 8week mark about) I have had a lump under my left nipple and nipple is extra puffy and the actual ball is bigger and sticks out alot more than the right nipple. I had mild gyno during puberty before. The other day i squeezed my nipple and noticed liqiud. Im getting very worried. I dosed 60mg of nolva and will continue at that dose with .5mg Arimidex until I can get some Raloxifene.

So im thinking that i could run Ralox throughout the cycle and taper it down when i start PCT with Toremifene. I was going to take Vitamin B6 and some Vitex as well. Im sure im having prolactin problems and gyno may be growing. I want to do something now and hope it doesnt get worse. Im also thinking of taking ReboundXT since i cant really afford Aromasin right now.

What kind of dosing protocol should i use with all of these compounds? Im not sure how to taper one off and add another in properly.....

Originally Posted by pistonpump

Same here. Bump for DR. D.

Im have been taking .5mg arimidex throughout my cycle ( @ 8week mark about) I have had a lump under my left nipple and nipple is extra puffy and the actual ball is bigger and sticks out alot more than the right nipple. I had mild gyno during puberty before. The other day i squeezed my nipple and noticed liqiud. Im getting very worried. I dosed 60mg of nolva and will continue at that dose with .5mg Arimidex until I can get some Raloxifene.

So im thinking that i could run Ralox throughout the cycle and taper it down when i start post cycle therapy with Toremifene. I was going to take Vitamin B6 and some Vitex as well. Im sure im having prolactin problems and gyno may be growing. I want to do something now and hope it doesnt get worse. Im also thinking of taking ReboundXT since i cant really afford Aromasin right now.

What kind of dosing protocol should i use with all of these compounds? Im not sure how to taper one off and add another in properly.....

What are you on right now that caused the gyno? It sound like you need some cabergoline or Vitex for sure, but a SERM will be more effectively stacked with that than an AI I think because if the 0.5mg of dex didn't stop it, you're probably on something that's estrogenic all by itself without even converting to estrogen. I'd drop the dex, and cut the Nolva to 40mg. Then start w/ 60mg ral 3x/d (take with fatty meals) once you get that and 0.5mg cab EOD or Vitex daily till it clears up. 200mg motrin 3x/d can help too especially if it's getting fibrotic and not just puffy or you're using IGF too.

Originally Posted by DR.D

What are you on right now that caused the gyno? It sound like you need some cabergoline or Vitex for sure, but a SERM will be more effectively stacked with that than an AI I think because if the 0.5mg of dex didn't stop it, you're probably on something that's estrogenic all by itself without even converting to estrogen. I'd drop the dex, and cut the Nolva to 40mg. Then start w/ 60mg ral 3x/d (take with fatty meals) once you get that and 0.5mg cab EOD or Vitex daily till it clears up. 200mg motrin 3x/d can help too especially if it's getting fibrotic and not just puffy or you're using IGF too.

I did 3 weeks of superdrol, 3 weeks of phera max stacked with Mtrn, 500mg test e, 600mg eq.

How would i bridge into the ralox after the tamox? Just stop the nolva one day and start the ralox the next day?

Originally Posted by pistonpump

I did 3 weeks of superdrol, 3 weeks of phera max stacked with Mtrn, 500mg test e, 600mg eq.

How would i bridge into the ralox after the tamox? Just stop the nolva one day and start the ralox the next day?

I'd think the dex should have covered that cycle, but not sure. I'd have used letro probably, but yeah, just stop the Nolva and resume with Ral the next day (spread the doses of Ral out 2 or 3 even doses/d, not all at night like Nolva). The Nolva will still be in your system for many weeks while the ral accumulates.