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Raloxifen

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  1. NIMBUS NUTRITION Co Founder
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    Question for Dr. D


    Airmidex and Letro work the same way, correct? Would using airmedex at .5-1.0 mgs per day be overkill on a cycle? Should I use it as you recommend letro (lower dose as to not totallly kill estrogen)? If so, what dose do you recommend?
    Thanks! Your posts are always very helpful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005
    Airmidex and Letro work the same way, correct? Would using airmedex at .5-1.0 mgs per day be overkill on a cycle? Should I use it as you recommend letro (lower dose as to not totallly kill estrogen)? If so, what dose do you recommend?
    Thanks! Your posts are always very helpful!
    Arimidex is not dosed the same as letro for some reason. It takes a full dose of it to cause optimal suppression, so 0.5mg/d if you just want to control estrogen, or 1.0mg to truly inhibit it. That's why I like letro better, they are equally effective, but letro is about 4x stronger.
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    so .5 of airmidex would = about .125 of Letro, correct? Same effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005
    so .5 of airmidex would = about .125 of Letro, correct? Same effects?
    Right. Roughly equal effect. About 60-70% inhibition at that dose if I remember the studies correctly.

    BTW, lookin' real sliced with that 6pk action in your Av, impressive my man!
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    thanks for the info bro and the complement!
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    The discussion's about SERMs and AIs, and Dr.D's posting. The ideal circumstances for me to post a question

    Some people reported getting gyno from Ergomax or SD. I know that normally this isn't very likely to happen, but as we see it can happen, even if the chances are low.
    Now, as an estrogen-sensitive person previously operated for pubertal gyno, I'd like to eliminate all risks gyno-wise. What should be my on-cycle drug(s) of choice and dosages in this regard?

    P.S. : As I live in Turkey I have easy access to all the drugs cited in this thread - except that arimidex is ridiculously expensive so out of the picture.
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    You shouldn't have much of a problem with Gyno on cycle w/ Letro bro even a really low dose like .5mg or .25 every other day might even be too much but it does the trick for me. Nolva/Clomid for PCT has always been good to me as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish
    The discussion's about SERMs and AIs, and Dr.D's posting. The ideal circumstances for me to post a question

    Some people reported getting gyno from Ergomax or SD. I know that normally this isn't very likely to happen, but as we see it can happen, even if the chances are low.
    Now, as an estrogen-sensitive person previously operated for pubertal gyno, I'd like to eliminate all risks gyno-wise. What should be my on-cycle drug(s) of choice and dosages in this regard?

    P.S. : As I live in Turkey I have easy access to all the drugs cited in this thread - except that arimidex is ridiculously expensive so out of the picture.
    Letro 0.1-0.25mg/d, Rebound 25-50mg/d, or Nolva 10-20mg/d in that order of preference
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    Grassroots and Dr.D : thanks a bunch for the quick replies. I appreciate the help.
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    Checked the prices, letro is also too expensive. Back to ATD.

    Wouldn't raloxifene be good in preventing gyno while on cycle, since it seems to be effective for reducing it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish
    Checked the prices, letro is also too expensive. Back to ATD.

    Wouldn't raloxifene be good in preventing gyno while on cycle, since it seems to be effective for reducing it?
    Yeah, that's a good choice too @ 60mg/d, pretty cheap
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yeah, that's a good choice too @ 60mg/d, pretty cheap
    Thanks again doc. This means I'll go with Raloxifene on cycle and save the ATD for PCT alongside Nolva & Fenugreek.
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    can you combine letro with rebound fighting gyno
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    Dr.D I have a question and maybe you can help answer it. From what I've read letro takes about 60 days to acheive steady blood plasma levels so what im wondering is it pointless to take letro for short periods of time i.e. 2-3 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbras
    can you combine letro with rebound fighting gyno
    Yes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadream
    Dr.D I have a question and maybe you can help answer it. From what I've read letro takes about 60 days to acheive steady blood plasma levels so what im wondering is it pointless to take letro for short periods of time i.e. 2-3 weeks?
    This is true, but short term letro is still OK because steady state levels are not really needed with letro. The optimal dose is 0.25mg/d, so your levels are pretty much high enough right from the start, especially if you pre-load with a full dose (2.5mg/d) for the first week before switching to a low, maintenance dose of 0.1-0.25mg/d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yes!
    is it worth it, rebound is weaker so how its gona be beneficier to letro
    add that dose of rebound should i use
    i am on my test cycle now and using letro 1.25 md ed trying to reverse small case of gyno
    but it is still here should i add other compounds(reboun 3 tabs) or use letro 2.5 mg ed
    Last edited by stumbras; 04-17-2006 at 11:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbras
    is it worth it, rebound is weaker so how its gona be beneficier to letro
    add that dose of rebound should i use
    i am on my test cycle now and using letro 1.25 md ed trying to reverse small case of gyno
    but it is still here should i add other compounds(reboun 3 tabs) or use letro 2.5 mg ed
    That's probably too much letro, unless your doing 2g or more of test per week. If you do high doses of letro, it can rebound and it's really so strong, you don't need that much anyway. You could combine letro and RXT to conserve on the RXT, like 25mg RXT w/ 0.1mg letro instead of 50mg of RXT by itself. I like letro at 0.25mg/d max. EOD at that dose has always been plenty with 600-800g of test e/wk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    That's probably too much letro, unless your doing 2g or more of test per week. If you do high doses of letro, it can rebound and it's really so strong, you don't need that much anyway. You could combine letro and RXT to conserve on the RXT, like 25mg RXT w/ 0.1mg letro instead of 50mg of RXT by itself. I like letro at 0.25mg/d max. EOD at that dose has always been plenty with 600-800g of test e/wk.
    Hey bro, was watching the Nightly News at work the other night and guess what "new" drug is being marketed for breast cancer?

    Thought about the good old Doc whenever it came on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots082
    Hey bro, was watching the Nightly News at work the other night and guess what "new" drug is being marketed for breast cancer?

    Thought about the good old Doc whenever it came on.
    Yep saw that too, it's Evista (brand name for Ralox) I liked it at 80 mg during my last cycle for gyno prevention
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    Yeah, we certainly seem to be on the cutting edge. It would make things so much easier if it worked the other way around!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
    Yep saw that too, it's Evista (brand name for Ralox) I liked it at 80 mg during my last cycle for gyno prevention
    How were your gains IW? Toxicity is low to none with Raloxifene correct Doc? Same with Tormifene correct? Damn Nolva and Clomid I still like Clomid, but after my last bloodwork I think I will pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots082
    Toxicity is low to none with Raloxifene correct Doc? Same with Tormifene correct? Damn Nolva and Clomid I still like Clomid, but after my last bloodwork I think I will pass.
    Yes, raloxifene toxicity is very low. Toremifene is low relative to the others in it's class. What did the Clomid do to your bloodwork? It doesn't allow liver enzymes a chance to drop very fast after a heavy cycle, but that's the only bad thing I ever noticed with it from PCT bloodwork.
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    It wasn't anything that bad, but it definately did not help.

    Plus the studies about tamoxifen causing carcinogen tumors in rats livers are enough for me not to use it anymore especially now that these two SERM's are readily available (Raloxifene and Tormifene). But I definately felt like my body reacted better to the Clomid than the Nolva.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Letro 0.1-0.25mg/d, Rebound 25-50mg/d, or Nolva 10-20mg/d in that order of preference
    if aromasin doesnt cause rebound they why dont you like that? because price? and im curious as to where adex would rank with you...do you not like it because it is the same as letro just not as strong? Im trying to come up with the best gyno protection on cycle, i was going to use adex and proviron (not at the same time) but where would you place proviron beginning of or ending of cycle? sorry for all the q's, hope you answer...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump
    if aromasin doesnt cause rebound they why dont you like that? because price? and im curious as to where adex would rank with you...do you not like it because it is the same as letro just not as strong? Im trying to come up with the best gyno protection on cycle, i was going to use adex and proviron (not at the same time) but where would you place proviron beginning of or ending of cycle? sorry for all the q's, hope you answer...
    Yeah, Aromasin a good compound for sure and has once a day convenience of dosing. It's just over priced for what it does and what else is out there. I like Adex, but mg/mg letro is the easy winner. There are other differences too, but letro is just more efficient if not any more effective than dex. Proviron is hit or miss for me. It seems to work much better and cover more bases at the end of a cycle, but once again for the price it's benefits are not always consistent it seems. I guess if you took high doses it may work better, but I'm not that rich or well connected!
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    here is a link to a thread i just posted. its from another board stating why aromasin is the best choice anti-e. Dr D, what are your opinions on this?

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/stero...tml#post605197
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump
    here is a link to a thread i just posted. its from another board stating why aromasin is the best choice anti-e. Dr D, what are your opinions on this?

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/stero...tml#post605197
    The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for PCT. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for PCT. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for post cycle therapy. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.

    I have run ralox my last PCT, it worked perfectly,the best sofar! I have used much Nolva in the past. I usually run it for two weeks @40 mg/ed. Could you please elaborate on the "stroke canidate" aspect of the Nolva, is that from clotting or blood pressure? thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them.
    Should read that Reload can be used instead of a SERM for the PCT of a light cycle?

    And how does compare "stroke candidate" potential of toremifene compared to tamoxifene? Sorry guys if this question is out of topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    The problem is that estrogen formation is still inhibited with Aromasin, just the same as letro and anastrazole. Only SERMs block receptors and leave estrogen in your system but it doesn't matter anyway because that estrogen can't bind to express itself. Only more estrogenic SERMs improve cholesterol. Nolva only does in a relative way but still makes you a stroke candidate as one of it's major sides. Clomid is much better. Anyway, I still like RXT and Reload best. RXT may not be as potent as Aromasin but it doesn't form an androgenic metabolite like Aromasin so it's still better suited for post cycle therapy. It actually acts as a mild anti-androgen centrally so it elevates LH by that mechanism as well to compensate for its lower potency. Reload is better yet because lipids improve as estrogen falls and test elevation is the best of any of the 3 of them. It is also more potent than Aromasin. That's just my observation. Aromasin was really tailored to fight breast cancer, but it's still a good compound. I just do not see it as the best, at least not for PCT. Also, anastrazole will cause rebound just the same as letro. They are both enzyme inhibitors that act on the same system using the same mechanism.
    sorry DR. i was actually refering to on cycle as far as using aromasin and nolva. I was totally thinkin about something else but it looks like aromasin and nolva on cycle is good prevention against gyno but I will compare prices of aromasin and RXT and if the overall cycle price is lower i would probably go with RXT...wait, this anti-e thing is just confusing the f*cl< out of me, period! guess i just have to try them all out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino
    I have run ralox my last post cycle therapy, it worked perfectly,the best sofar! I have used much Nolva in the past. I usually run it for two weeks @40 mg/ed. Could you please elaborate on the "stroke canidate" aspect of the Nolva, is that from clotting or blood pressure? thanks
    Yeah, I'm with ya on the ralox, good stuff. It's just not cost effective for me but 240mg/d is very nice and very non-toxic too. Perfect half-life also. It's just very poorly bioavailable and expensive. An injectable would be sweet and take very low doses (like 5-10mg).

    Yeah, clotting is one of the main complications with Nolva use. Venous thromboembolic disorders (like DVT). Nolva is classified as a known human carcinogen as well. Hmmm, maybe that why doctors only use it on people who are dieing anyway! Wake up people!! End the Nolva madness. OK, ok, I'll leave Nolva alone. I've used it a time or two myself, I'd just avoid it if you could.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostam
    Should read that Reload can be used instead of a SERM for the post cycle therapy of a light cycle?

    And how does compare "stroke candidate" potential of toremifene compared to tamoxifene? Sorry guys if this question is out of topic.
    I think so, yes. On a light oral only cycle of 3-4wks, a steroidal AI is just fine IMO. That's just from my experience. Everybody is different and you won't really know for yourself until you try it and see.

    Toremifene does appear to carry a similar thromboembolic risk as Nolva in the North American studies, but at about 3x the dose. Plus, there not a big warning in the PDR on it's monograph page like there is for Nolva, so I trust it a bit more at this point. I take it for granted that my cholesterol stays low and my blood stays thin because I take T4 year round, but for the general pop, half an aspirin a day would not be a bad idea during PCT with any SERM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump
    sorry DR. i was actually refering to on cycle as far as using aromasin and nolva. I was totally thinkin about something else but it looks like aromasin and nolva on cycle is good prevention against gyno but I will compare prices of aromasin and RXT and if the overall cycle price is lower i would probably go with RXT...wait, this anti-e thing is just confusing the f*cl< out of me, period! guess i just have to try them all out.
    I really like RXT on cycle. That's my choice, or low dose letro. If a SERM is needed on cycle, ralox for sure.
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    I had a couple of questions about Ralox.

    1.) Rebound: Should I end my gyno-reduction cycle with 60mg of Ralox or 30mg, in order to avoid rebound? (I plan on doing 120mg for the first week, followed by a cruise dose of 60mg for about 2 months.

    2.) Would taking RXT during my Ralox dosing do anything? If Ralox is taking care of the estrogen receptors, what purpose would RXT serve?

    *Looking in Dr. D's direction!*
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeRows
    I had a couple of questions about Ralox.

    1.) Rebound: Should I end my gyno-reduction cycle with 60mg of Ralox or 30mg, in order to avoid rebound? (I plan on doing 120mg for the first week, followed by a cruise dose of 60mg for about 2 months.

    2.) Would taking RXT during my Ralox dosing do anything? If Ralox is taking care of the estrogen receptors, what purpose would RXT serve?

    *Looking in Dr. D's direction!*
    Ralox is lipid friendly so taking RXT at the same time would be fine if you ask me. It would give an added benefit of test enhancement and suppression of endogenous estrogen biosynthesis. 25mg stacked w/ the Ralox would be good, or not, it depends on what you're trying to achieve really. Rebound should not be a problem, but I'd still cycle off at 30mg the last wk or two just to be safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Ralox is lipid friendly so taking RXT at the same time would be fine if you ask me. It would give an added benefit of test enhancement and suppression of endogenous estrogen biosynthesis. 25mg stacked w/ the Ralox would be good, or not, it depends on what you're trying to achieve really. Rebound should not be a problem, but I'd still cycle off at 30mg the last wk or two just to be safe.

    My goal is strictly reduction of gyno. I'm not trying to boost test levels or anything, just need to get rid of the 'nasties'.

    Also Dr D, I don't have any pain per say in my nipples. Like it doesn't hurt or irritate if I play with them or squeeze em. However, if I poke the side of my chest, below my nipple there is some pain there. Does this pain signify that breast tissue is growing (gyno is getting bigger)? Thanks, I just need to get rid of this gyno and I'll be all set, I made the mistake of running 2 cycles when I knew I was prone, but all I want to do is get rid of it and move on with my lifting (naturally.)
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    Ralox Question


    Dr D, I'm planning a PCT for a 8 week oral cycle (Superdrol 4 weeks, Max LMG 4 weeks), and was just going to run Ralox for the 4 week PCT. Would 60mg a day be enough (cost being an issue here). If not, what about stacking it would Rebound XT or REbound Reloaded?

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarize
    Dr D, I'm planning a post cycle therapy for a 8 week oral cycle (Superdrol 4 weeks, Max LMG 4 weeks), and was just going to run Ralox for the 4 week post cycle therapy. Would 60mg a day be enough (cost being an issue here). If not, what about stacking it would Rebound XT or REbound Reloaded?

    Thanks.
    Yes, the stack would be best. Ral is great but that dose is probably too low for most guys after an 8 weeker. It is synergistic with an AI for sure though so 1-2 caps/d of RXT or RR would probably be perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeRows
    My goal is strictly reduction of gyno. I'm not trying to boost test levels or anything, just need to get rid of the 'nasties'.

    Also Dr D, I don't have any pain per say in my nipples. Like it doesn't hurt or irritate if I play with them or squeeze em. However, if I poke the side of my chest, below my nipple there is some pain there. Does this pain signify that breast tissue is growing (gyno is getting bigger)? Thanks, I just need to get rid of this gyno and I'll be all set, I made the mistake of running 2 cycles when I knew I was prone, but all I want to do is get rid of it and move on with my lifting (naturally.)
    Same here. Bump for DR. D.

    Im have been taking .5mg arimidex throughout my cycle ( @ 8week mark about) I have had a lump under my left nipple and nipple is extra puffy and the actual ball is bigger and sticks out alot more than the right nipple. I had mild gyno during puberty before. The other day i squeezed my nipple and noticed liqiud. Im getting very worried. I dosed 60mg of nolva and will continue at that dose with .5mg Arimidex until I can get some Raloxifene.

    So im thinking that i could run Ralox throughout the cycle and taper it down when i start PCT with Toremifene. I was going to take Vitamin B6 and some Vitex as well. Im sure im having prolactin problems and gyno may be growing. I want to do something now and hope it doesnt get worse. Im also thinking of taking ReboundXT since i cant really afford Aromasin right now.

    What kind of dosing protocol should i use with all of these compounds? Im not sure how to taper one off and add another in properly.....
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