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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    ATD will not cause a rebound (ironic that it's named Rebound ) because it's a steroidal AI like Teslac and Aromasin. The aromatase inhibition that they cause can be noncompetetive and irreversible, that's why they don't rebound. When people say to taper AIs they probably mean Anastrazol and Letrozole, they are enzyme inhibitors and suppress enzymes that are needed to make estrogen. The body tries to rebalance that by inducing the production of more enzymes proportional to the degree of inhibition and time that they were used. If you use an enzyme inhibitor like letro, just keep the dose low, use it for the shortest amount of time possible and taper at the end if you choose to use higher doses. It's pretty much that simple.
    I get people telling all the time that AI's cause rebound and SERMS dont. of course they never answer me when Nolva is gone then what happens to all the waiting estrogen if you dont taper? They never answer why SERMs need to be tapered. This happens to me a lot. Ugh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Ooooh...cool, I could just PCT at 3 caps a day for a while, then drop to 2 maybe and call it quits? no need to taper?

    Always full of good info
    Yeah, you could do a little 3,2 taper. It wouldn't hurt, but it's not required either. I actually ramp up 1,2,3 with ATD as my SERM tapers out.
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    Ohh yeah...that's right....I remember that PCT outline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosting
    I get people telling all the time that AI's cause rebound and SERMS dont. of course they never answer me when Nolva is gone then what happens to all the waiting estrogen if you dont taper? They never answer why SERMs need to be tapered. This happens to me a lot. Ugh!
    it is teh funneh
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Hey G, sorry I didn't answer the whole question! Yes, letro hurts lipids, but I still love the stuff and think it has it's place. Especially on high test cycles, but Aromasin and Rebound, 2 steroidal AIs, show possible evidence of improving lipids (or at least lowering LDL), maybe due to the 17b-OH metabolites. If letro is used anyway, use the lowest dose required so that estrogen is just attenuated and not completely destroyed.
    Hey doc, would using say 2-3 caps of ATD on cycle be enough to 1.) Prevent gyno to the extent of say using Letro @ .25mg EOD or .1-.2mg ED as a replacement since Letro is harder on the cholesterol profile than ATD (this would be of course with a aromatizing compound like test) and 2.) Work as a OTC HCG of sorts. What are your thoughts good Doc. Hope you are doing well brother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer
    it is teh funneh
    Now you can do a cut & paste of Dr.D to defend my honor without it looking like we are gay like we are in real life.
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    i cant find the thread it was in, i looked at everything i posted in but cant find it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer
    i cant find the thread it was in, i looked at everything i posted in but cant find it.
    Likey story. You just dont want anyone to know we are gay. Its cool, I wont let anyone know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots082
    Hey doc, would using say 2-3 caps of ATD on cycle be enough to 1.) Prevent gyno to the extent of say using Letro @ .25mg EOD or .1-.2mg ED as a replacement since Letro is harder on the cholesterol profile than ATD (this would be of course with a aromatizing compound like test) and 2.) Work as a OTC HCG of sorts. What are your thoughts good Doc. Hope you are doing well brother.
    I'm doing fine bro, it's always great to hear for you. I pray you're doing well too. I have not experimented with ATD in this way much, but plan to. 1 or 2 caps should be plenty. It may prove to be a great letro replacement with fewer sides and better anti-gyno effects. 3 caps may be overkill, I'm just now sure at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I'm doing fine bro, it's always great to hear for you. I pray you're doing well too. I have not experimented with ATD in this way much, but plan to. 1 or 2 caps should be plenty. It may prove to be a great letro replacement with fewer sides and better anti-gyno effects. 3 caps may be overkill, I'm just now sure at this point.
    Thanks Buddy
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    Question for Dr. D


    Airmidex and Letro work the same way, correct? Would using airmedex at .5-1.0 mgs per day be overkill on a cycle? Should I use it as you recommend letro (lower dose as to not totallly kill estrogen)? If so, what dose do you recommend?
    Thanks! Your posts are always very helpful!
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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005
    Airmidex and Letro work the same way, correct? Would using airmedex at .5-1.0 mgs per day be overkill on a cycle? Should I use it as you recommend letro (lower dose as to not totallly kill estrogen)? If so, what dose do you recommend?
    Thanks! Your posts are always very helpful!
    Arimidex is not dosed the same as letro for some reason. It takes a full dose of it to cause optimal suppression, so 0.5mg/d if you just want to control estrogen, or 1.0mg to truly inhibit it. That's why I like letro better, they are equally effective, but letro is about 4x stronger.
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    so .5 of airmidex would = about .125 of Letro, correct? Same effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by workin2005
    so .5 of airmidex would = about .125 of Letro, correct? Same effects?
    Right. Roughly equal effect. About 60-70% inhibition at that dose if I remember the studies correctly.

    BTW, lookin' real sliced with that 6pk action in your Av, impressive my man!
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    Wink


    thanks for the info bro and the complement!
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    The discussion's about SERMs and AIs, and Dr.D's posting. The ideal circumstances for me to post a question

    Some people reported getting gyno from Ergomax or SD. I know that normally this isn't very likely to happen, but as we see it can happen, even if the chances are low.
    Now, as an estrogen-sensitive person previously operated for pubertal gyno, I'd like to eliminate all risks gyno-wise. What should be my on-cycle drug(s) of choice and dosages in this regard?

    P.S. : As I live in Turkey I have easy access to all the drugs cited in this thread - except that arimidex is ridiculously expensive so out of the picture.
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    You shouldn't have much of a problem with Gyno on cycle w/ Letro bro even a really low dose like .5mg or .25 every other day might even be too much but it does the trick for me. Nolva/Clomid for PCT has always been good to me as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish
    The discussion's about SERMs and AIs, and Dr.D's posting. The ideal circumstances for me to post a question

    Some people reported getting gyno from Ergomax or SD. I know that normally this isn't very likely to happen, but as we see it can happen, even if the chances are low.
    Now, as an estrogen-sensitive person previously operated for pubertal gyno, I'd like to eliminate all risks gyno-wise. What should be my on-cycle drug(s) of choice and dosages in this regard?

    P.S. : As I live in Turkey I have easy access to all the drugs cited in this thread - except that arimidex is ridiculously expensive so out of the picture.
    Letro 0.1-0.25mg/d, Rebound 25-50mg/d, or Nolva 10-20mg/d in that order of preference
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    Grassroots and Dr.D : thanks a bunch for the quick replies. I appreciate the help.
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    Checked the prices, letro is also too expensive. Back to ATD.

    Wouldn't raloxifene be good in preventing gyno while on cycle, since it seems to be effective for reducing it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish
    Checked the prices, letro is also too expensive. Back to ATD.

    Wouldn't raloxifene be good in preventing gyno while on cycle, since it seems to be effective for reducing it?
    Yeah, that's a good choice too @ 60mg/d, pretty cheap
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yeah, that's a good choice too @ 60mg/d, pretty cheap
    Thanks again doc. This means I'll go with Raloxifene on cycle and save the ATD for PCT alongside Nolva & Fenugreek.
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    can you combine letro with rebound fighting gyno
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    Dr.D I have a question and maybe you can help answer it. From what I've read letro takes about 60 days to acheive steady blood plasma levels so what im wondering is it pointless to take letro for short periods of time i.e. 2-3 weeks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbras
    can you combine letro with rebound fighting gyno
    Yes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadream
    Dr.D I have a question and maybe you can help answer it. From what I've read letro takes about 60 days to acheive steady blood plasma levels so what im wondering is it pointless to take letro for short periods of time i.e. 2-3 weeks?
    This is true, but short term letro is still OK because steady state levels are not really needed with letro. The optimal dose is 0.25mg/d, so your levels are pretty much high enough right from the start, especially if you pre-load with a full dose (2.5mg/d) for the first week before switching to a low, maintenance dose of 0.1-0.25mg/d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yes!
    is it worth it, rebound is weaker so how its gona be beneficier to letro
    add that dose of rebound should i use
    i am on my test cycle now and using letro 1.25 md ed trying to reverse small case of gyno
    but it is still here should i add other compounds(reboun 3 tabs) or use letro 2.5 mg ed
    Last edited by stumbras; 04-17-2006 at 11:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbras
    is it worth it, rebound is weaker so how its gona be beneficier to letro
    add that dose of rebound should i use
    i am on my test cycle now and using letro 1.25 md ed trying to reverse small case of gyno
    but it is still here should i add other compounds(reboun 3 tabs) or use letro 2.5 mg ed
    That's probably too much letro, unless your doing 2g or more of test per week. If you do high doses of letro, it can rebound and it's really so strong, you don't need that much anyway. You could combine letro and RXT to conserve on the RXT, like 25mg RXT w/ 0.1mg letro instead of 50mg of RXT by itself. I like letro at 0.25mg/d max. EOD at that dose has always been plenty with 600-800g of test e/wk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    That's probably too much letro, unless your doing 2g or more of test per week. If you do high doses of letro, it can rebound and it's really so strong, you don't need that much anyway. You could combine letro and RXT to conserve on the RXT, like 25mg RXT w/ 0.1mg letro instead of 50mg of RXT by itself. I like letro at 0.25mg/d max. EOD at that dose has always been plenty with 600-800g of test e/wk.
    Hey bro, was watching the Nightly News at work the other night and guess what "new" drug is being marketed for breast cancer?

    Thought about the good old Doc whenever it came on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassroots082
    Hey bro, was watching the Nightly News at work the other night and guess what "new" drug is being marketed for breast cancer?

    Thought about the good old Doc whenever it came on.
    Yep saw that too, it's Evista (brand name for Ralox) I liked it at 80 mg during my last cycle for gyno prevention
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