- 02-19-2010, 01:59 PM
- 02-22-2010, 12:56 PM
02-22-2010, 01:02 PM
02-22-2010, 03:45 PM
Well two is enough support for me. I'll have some time to post a small write up and log the previous three days experience with it in about two hours.
02-22-2010, 04:09 PM
I did a two month stretch on it in 09. I felt more aware, random thoughts all but stop. I felt I could think deeper about problems, like connecting this problem with that solution became very easy. Information I forgot years ago would pop in my head when I was thinking about various topics. I enjoyed it, for me it came on slow but by the second week I felt it strong.
One more thing, about three weeks in my wife made the comment she felt I was putting more effort into listing to her, which depending on your lady, could be a good or bad thing
02-22-2010, 04:13 PM
02-23-2010, 03:29 PM
This Is My Brain on Drugs: A Nootropic Log
This is log is going to focus mainly on Pramiracetam. I have other nootropics that Iím using as part of this cycle, but I feel I have enough experience with them to discern the difference and synergy of effects.
Pramiracetam, to which I will refer to as Pram from now on, is a derived analogue of the nootropic Piracetam. Parke-Davis developed this drug initially, with the claim that it is ď8-30 times stronger than Piracetam.Ē
For those that care about the chemistry aspect, the difference between Pram and Piracetam is that Pram has a diisopropylamine attached to an ethane chain which is then bonded to the amide on Piracetam structure. Interesting, I know.
The proposed Ėracetam family method of action is as follows-
1) Enhanced brain metabolism by stimulating oxidative catabolism, increasing energy levels through improved ATP-turnover and cAMP levels, and enhanced phospholipid metabolism and increased protein biosynthesis. There is also an impact on hippocampal (to make this pertinent, the hippocampus is involved with long term memory potentiation and spatial navigation) release of dopamine and acetylcholine but does not modulate neurotransmitter release or inhibition
2) Increased communication across the corpus callosum- which is the bundle of nerves that separate the two hemispheres of the brain. This has been inferred to potentiate the generation of new ideas.
For those of you familiar with Ėracetams Iím sure that this isnít anything new.
Common clinical uses for Ėracetams include
-Improving or slowing deterioration in senile dementias (i.e. Alzheimers)
-Enhanced alertness, cooperation, socialization, and IQ in elderly patients
-Improved reading and accuracy in dyslexia, as well as speed of reading, writing and spelling
-Boosting mental performance in "aging, non-deteriorated individuals" suffering only from "forgetfulness."
There are multiple more uses but A) Iím too lazy to continue and B) if you are interested about nootropics and racetams in general I suggest researching them yourself.
PRAMIRACETAM IN PARTICULAR
Besides sharing common neuro-effects, anecdote and research point to the notion that each racetam analogue exhibits particular characteristics unique to itself. Pramiracetam has been reported to increase goal directed and purposive behavior in comparison to its chemical cousins. Milligram for milligram, Pram is considered to be the strongest, with doses as low as 150mg being effective in Alzheimers trials. Pramiracetam, along with Aniracetam, is fat soluble, which lends to its effectiveness and relatively longer half-life. In laymanís terms, it lasts longer in comparison to Piracetam and Oxiracetam.
Experimental studies have indicated it improves memory and learning capacity; while also functioning as a mild antidepressant with a sedative effect. My readings indicate that the sedative effect is limited to the CNS, with no effect being apparent on the autonomic nervous system, however I havenít found a substantiated study on the potentiation of an anti-depressant effect (I also havenít looked that hard).
Really I suggest researching this yourself if your interested. Everything Iíve dictated is easily found, and if you have any physiology experience I doubt you would find the clinical studies difficult to understand in general. Pubmed has approximately 1000 studies total on the Racetam family of drugs (or so I've read), all of which are free to access.
Iíve read mixed reviews about Pram, and Iíve come to the conclusion that for the most part, sides are going to be dose related. Iím still fine-tuning my dose of Pram in conjunction with my Piracetam/Choline Citrate, but I have several initial thoughts which Iíll share shortly.
02-23-2010, 03:29 PM
02-23-2010, 04:00 PM
My Pram came in the mail on Saturday, so I’m just going to give a brief summary of my overall initial impressions for the previous three days.
The first time, and everytime I take Pram, I can noticeably feel the effects. I’ve read other experiences with this and I feel confident in saying that if you are familiar at all with Racetams and their subtle influences on mind-state, you should have no trouble spotting this.
The very first dose I took Saturday while studying for a Physiology midterm. I’m still toying around with dosage, but when I run Piracetam and Choline/Citrate by itself, I typically dose 3g/1g at least 3x daily. I have interesting genetics to say the least when it comes to drug metabolism. Anyways, I took 500mg of Pram and about 20-30 minutes later I felt it “hit.”
My first thought was exactly this.
“Whoa. This IS Pramiracetam.”
For myself, my Pir/Choline stack elicits a more “liquid” state of mind. The best way I can describe it is as a cool feeling towards the front of the cranial that also feels very fluid. I find it easier to concentrate, and I’ll notice after the fact improved concentration, recall, and linguistic capabilities. That being said, Pram made me feel like I was being put into a dunk tank. I definitely noticed a “mild sedative effect,” however it was a cross between a state of relaxed intent and a more intense “liquid” feeling in my perceptions.
I’ve noticed over the past few days, as I’ve also read from (positive) logs on other forums; increased concentration, retention of learned material, and drastically increased analytical dissemination of pretty much anything, pattern connecting, and speed of thought. A lot users report a sense of “detached emotionality” and “muting of extraneous thoughts,” I would have to agree with this. The unnecessary and ADD like internal monologue I have going inside my head becomes much more muted. The detached emotional response is interesting to say the least, for myself its like I know and acknowledge the emotional response, but it has no effect whatsoever on my frame or thought process. In my mind, Pramiracetam elicits a more analytical and concrete/goal driven state of mind. On a side note, I also notice that when listening to and playing music, a more analytical and thorough enjoyment.
Sunday I incorporated Pram into my usual stack (which I’ll post later) when I went to study. Normally I don’t study high, but an interesting situation arose which had me arriving at the library slightly “elevated” if you get my drift. I noticed a nice synergy with THC, I was overanalyzing and drawing contextual conclusions almost instantaneously from material with a slight depression in overall concentration. I also took 10mg of dextroamphetamine later that night (for the most part amphetamines disgust me, I find them dirty and unpleasant), in concert with my noot stack and with the Pram I literally felt like I was “absorbing” material.
Monday I had gotten 5 hours of sleep and had a midterm. On Monday’s I also have class from 9am-9pm. I'm not a morning person and I just happen hate Mondays, anyways. I loaded up on energy drinks and took my noots along with Pram religiously. My rough guess is that I took close to ~1500-2000mg of Pram throughout the day. I made it through the day and felt amazing about the midterm, of which I was the first to finish in a lecture hall of 400 students. I know I suffered in performance because of the lack of sleep, but the Pram helped up my game a little bit.
Those are my first three days, later tonight I’ll post todays log in detail along with my noot regimen. Right now I need to play CoD MW2 and study.
02-23-2010, 05:00 PM
02-24-2010, 11:35 AM
Well Iíd like to thank everyone for being so supportive and interested. My updates will probably wonít be scheduled, but I am keeping a detailed log in a notebook so Iíll post them up eventually when I procrastinate on AM instead of do school work.
Before I go over Monday, Iíll detail the noot regimen Iíve been using on and off since the beginning of this school year. All of these are in approximate and averaged amounts, depending on the stresses of the day or how Iím feeling mentally I adjust my dosage.
A Typical Day w/out Pram looks like this
-3000mg Piracetam/ 1000mg Choline Citrate/ 600mg Sulbutiamine ~3x daily
Iíve incorporated some new things along with Pram also, Iíll try to give as detailed insights as I can.
02-24-2010, 12:00 PM
7:30- Rise and Shine.
-200mg Modafinil: which I’ve just started and am still playing with the dosage)
-150mg Bupropion HCl: I’ve been taking this sometime for my depression
-2000mg L-Tyrosine: best time for I’ve found to take this is right when I wake up, pretty much my adrenal glands hate me.
8:30- Breakfast. At this point I feel the typical hunger suppression of my Wellbutrin, however I’m still trying to gauge the Modafinil’s effects. After the meal:
-1000 mg Choline Citrate
8:42- Yup. The Pram is starting to hit. My visual acuity has increased and I can tell the definite mindstate change, somewhat relaxed, analytical, and really enjoying Atmosphere.
9:15- 1 cup of Darjeeling Tea and 100mg Modafinil. Between this point and shortly after the pram “hit” I started feeling very spacey. Kinda relaxed, slightly dysphoric, tired but able to concentrate. (More on this to come)
10:15- Arrive at Physiology Lab still feeling kinda spacey. However half an hour into it I really come into a zone. We were learning about interpreting ECG’s and the corresponding extracellular charges and cardiac muscle movement related to the ECG’s. This is all coming quite easily to me, I’m out of the “spacey” feeling and feel very focused and awake (definitely the Modafinil, usually I would’ve have about 3 cups of coffee already). Connections between concepts and facts are coming easily to me, and in the exercises involving extrapolating the concepts we learned to the material I’m drawing correct conclusions everytime. Usually I’m hit or miss on these kind of critical thinking exercises, today I was hitting. On a side note, towards the end of the lab I started getting head throbs, which I realized was low blood sugar later on. I’m thinking that especially with Modafinil and the appetite suppression of my meds I need to eat more frequently. Ugh, not easy. Anyways.
12:05 Lab ends and I head to the gym, took 3 RPM beforehand.
Explosiveness: 10 initially-then 6 after about 2 sets (that whole low blood sugar thing… plus I spilled my periworkout drink while mixing it… I was pissed to say the least). I finish my workout, stretch, do my usual thing. I’m feeling slightly upset in my stomach.
1:53- From this point and onwards throughout the night until I went to sleep I was in a funk. I felt awake, but mentally tired at the same time. In retrospect, and in a few days I’ll dial this down, I believe it was a combination of excessive Pram/Pir dose-synergy, and poor sleep quality for the previous days.
-150mg Bupropion HCl
-1000mg Choline Citrate
3:20- 900mg Sulbutiamine w/ high fat meal
3:25- Two cups of Jasmine Green Tea
-One absolute game of destruction in CoD MW2: Estate- 27/0, I think I might’ve made a little kid cry. After this, my games went downhill and I called it quits after three more.
4:10- Study Time begins
-1000mg Choline Citrate
4:20- Pram “hits.” And no, the irony isn’t lost on me.
4:23- the beginnings of a tension headache and the tired but awake feeling intensifies. At this point I’ve decided to scale back both noot doses until I determine the synergy.
6:00- 1500mg Piracetam
-1000mg Choline Citrate
6:15- Feeling more awake.
Nothing will ever replace a good nights sleep. Once I started studying I was able to concentrate and learn the material, but it was made more difficult with my languid mindstate. In short, studying was not ideal. Tomorrow I’m going to scale down my Racetam dosages and toy around a little bit more with the modafinil.
02-26-2010, 11:47 AM
For this waiting for an update its been a pretty hectic few days with class... But sometime tonight or tomorrow I'll post up the past days.
02-28-2010, 06:43 PM
03-01-2010, 06:04 AM
03-01-2010, 11:26 AM
What I'm discovering is that Pram is really weird for me. I've finally dialed it down to an effective dose, but I've noticed that optimum effects peak 1-2 hours in while the "dumbed down" emtionality starts to fade.Wondering if you feel "dumbed down" once the effrect wares off?...
Anyways, time for an overdue update. Put simply, the past week sucked, I've realized that as much as I want to I simply don't have the time to put up detailed logs. I'll put up what I have but from now on I'm probably just going to give brief summaries and notables of the day.
Monday night I had done some reading, pretty much I think most of the fogginess I've been experiencing is over dosing my noots. Especially my choline. That being said, I also decided to sub out my Sulb for the time being as I've been using that ED for quite awhile.
7:45- 400mg Modafinil
8:35- 600mg Sulbutiamine
1 cap of Alpha-Burn (9mg Alpha-Yohimbine)
NOTES: Lowering the Pram dosage has definitely made me less "spacey."
10:15- 250mg Pram
Reading over my log really makes me wish I would've kept more detailed notes... All I put was "effects not as vibrant"
11:05- In a good place, the head fog seems to be disappating.
12:30- 150mg Buproprion
3000mg Piracetam/ 2000gram choline- I did this to rule out the possibility of limited choline in related to noot... In hindsight I realized I was an idiot. But its helped me dial my doses so its not all bad.
12:40- feeling good
1:00- feeling mentally sharp but slightly detached mentally, the beginnings of a tension headache.
1:10- 500mg Pram
At this point I realized I was trying to solve the wrong problem. It wasn't limited choline intake, it was overconsumption of noots. For some reason, the high dose of Pram didn't hit me as hard as I expected, probably the extremely high levels of choline played a part in this.
1:40- increased multi-tasking, concentration, visibly blunted responses to emotional-social stimulus, semi-zombie like mindstate. Looking at this in hindsight- too much Pram.
3:00- High mental energy at this point, still analytical, noticeable improvements in lynguistic ability, and feeling in a "perfect mental state."
4:51- the mental effect is slowly fizzing out, i decided I would have one more Pram dose for the night and then call it enders.
6:30- 150mg Pram
NOTES: This kicked off a two hour period of spacey disassociation which made it impossible to get any work done. But I did learn something from this day, which is that my Pram dosage is WAY WAY WAY too high. And considering the half-life of Pram in relation to potency, my repeated doses were going pretty far down the Bell Curve for effects.
03-01-2010, 11:42 AM
7:45- 700mg Modafinil
This day I was determined to do work.
9:00- 150mg Bupropion
9:30- Slight headache- 400 mg Choline Citrate
3 RPM- then short workout
11:30- 3000mg Piracetam/ 500mg Choline
I'm feeling pretty good at this point, I then went off to do some community service.
2:30- Community Service done, I take another 150mg of Bupropion and begin studying.
4:15- 4500mg Piracetam/1000mg Choline Citrate
4:23- Feeling spacey (and I wonder why?... In hindsight I really question what seems to go through my head some days). So I take another 1000mg Choline Citrate
4:50- Cup of coffee, and my first Pram dose of the day, which I weight out to 100mg.
4:53- Pram starting to hit.
5:11- Feeling very very nice right now, have another cup of coffee.
5:40- yet another cup of coffee.
5:50- Another 100mg of Pram- at this point i've come to the conclusion that for myself, this DEFINITELY isn't something that I should use for social experiences. I've noticed that in my case I have a lot of trouble empathizing and reciprocating a worthwhile social frame.
6:23- at this point i had determined my brain was a sponge.
6:30- 100mg Pram
7:00- 750mg Choline Citrate- I feel like I'm slowing down mentally.
I started playing my guitar at this point and I can say that Pram changes music for me, I like the feeling.
7:40- yet another 100mg Pram, at this point I've realized that I've taken too much and get the symptoms of Pram overstimulation. Difficulty concentrating, disassociative effects, mildy depressed mood.
9:14- I cannot stress enough that Pram has potent synergy with THC.
THOUGHTS: This Thursday I was cramming for a MGMT midterm I had the next morning. Did the Pram help? Definitely. Even though I mucked with my dosages, I noticed the benefits and burned through 5/6 of the material I needed to study for the midterm that night. After I synergized my Pram with THC, I continued to study. Oddly enough, I didn't notice any drops in motivation, concentration, or learning. IMO the THC enhanced it, although this isn't something that I would choose to rely on as a regular habit. The THC helped me visualize immensely, and combined with the analytical, strictly business type effect I was feeling from the Pram, I felt it worked quite nicely. That being said, I still feel that it isn't prudent to study elevated, but for artistic/creative purposes I can definitely see Pram enhancing the effects of THC. I'll probably investigate this further at some other time.
03-01-2010, 11:53 AM
7:10- 500mg Modafinil, 150mg Bupropion. I slept terribly, probably getting about five hours. While I loathe to say this, I'm glad I have uppers like the Mod to help get me through crunch times like this.
7:50- 3000mg Piracetam/1000mg Choline Citrate
8:40- 100mg Pram and Sugar free NOS
This is when I really started to feel it shine. I was still cramming for the midterm, as I had it in a few hours, and my focus was unreal. 100-150mg definitely has seemed to be the best dose for me. At this point I was creating notecards, easily spouting off the information behind the acronyms I had created for notes, and connecting and defining the concepts in a very smooth fashion.
10:00- 100mg Pram, Medium Starbucks Coffee- midterm is in an hour. I continued to cram and was able to imprint an incredible amount of information in that short time.
10:20- 500mg Choline Citrate, another 100mg Pram. Still studying. To note, while the cumulative doses of Pram now seems to put me under, at this point I'm of the opinion that the stimulants were able to counteract the spaceyness that too much Pram will bring out.
10:40- yet another 100mg Pram. Effects are the same, I'm continuing to stay sharp and consistent.
11:15- Midterm begins. I have no anxiety at all (I don't usually get test anxiety anyways but I had a feeling I should've considering I had learned 6 weeks of lecture material in less then 24 hours). I notice that I'm catching small things in questions which disqualify answers, very pronounced. Normally I'd miss these kinds of things and would get tripped up, but this is where the analytical side of Pram shows through. I walked out of that midterm feeling amazing.
12:00 150mg Bupropion, I start peer grading a paper which was due at my next class.
The rest of the day:
The rest of the day I didn't take detailed notes. At all. But to say this, I've realized that in my case its best if I use Pram sparingly for studying, not as a consistent daily regimen. I finished off my Friday by just relaxing, I made no effort to study and allowed myself a bit of lazy me time to recover from the past week.
03-01-2010, 11:58 AM
2/27 AND 2/28- SATURDAY/SUNDAY
I didn't take detailed notes either. But I'm finally getting the feel for my Pram dose. 100-150mg about every three or four hours is the best for me when it comes to learning, I spent my whole weekend in the library. At one point yesterday I slipped back into the "more is better" mindset and took to much Pram. The overstimulation sucks, to put it bluntly. Too much will ruin any chance of studying, I stacked 100mg doses over two hours and it eliminated any cognitive benefits. I was spacey, languid, difficulty concentrating, and slightly dysphoric. However, about 2 hours later the effects starting wearing off and I went right back into study mode with full strength. Small doses are definitely the best with Pram, but to me its annoying to wait for the full benefits to bloom while waiting for the initial "submersion" feeling to subside.
03-08-2010, 01:43 AM
3/1 - 3/7
I'm terrible with these updates, i know. In short school sucks. I've finally gotten a good feel for the Pram dose, 100mg is definitely the sweet spot. I haven't been sticking regularly to my noot doses either, hectic really seems to sum my life at the moment. That being said, I still notice a definite improvement in attention, recall, and memorization with Pram. My main focus for the past few has been organic chemistry, everything else has been put on hold. I'm pretty sure I failed my midterm, epicly, but that was more where I focused my studying rather than recall.
And I must say, the recall has been pretty intense. I notice definite improvement in abstract visualization and grasping underlying principles. Its almost trippy, a couple of nights I took diphenhydramine to antagonize the modafinil. Right when I was in that lucid state where youíre semi-conscious I was having detailed visualizations/lucid dreams of Sn1/2 and En1 reactions. Pretty interesting stuff.
That being said, this week should prove to be a little less hectic so Iím hoping Iíll be able to post a more detailed log again. My aniracetam also arrived in the mail so that means I have a new noot to add to the ****tail :-D
03-08-2010, 11:28 PM
1:00 PM- 2000mg L-Tyrosine
Woke up late today because I spent the night before writing a speech I've put off for two weeks. I'm feeling pretty terrible at this point, I had taken adderall to work into the wee hours of the night and still have a lot of sleep to catch up on.
1:30- 15mg adderall
1000mg Choline Citrate
Took this right after eating, about 30 minutes later the adderall kicked in and i felt pretty good. Played a little bit of CoD:MW2, did decent but my connnection hasn't been the best lately. After that I spent about 30 minutes stuck in a rut trying to finish the conclusion on my speech.
4:10 PM- 30mg adderall- otherwise same noot doses as above
Began prepping for my speech. I'm still trying to get a feel for Aniracetam, but it seems like it counteracts the sluggish feeling Pram sometimes brings. I was in a pretty good mood after I found out I had gotten a curved A on my MGMT mid term from two weeks before. Definitely reminds me how awesome Pram is.
At this point I was semi-distracted because of the adderall, but was able to wring out my speech and become comfortable enough to wear it would just flow off notecards. I do this for another two hours and finally present around 7:00pm. Taking the adderall into consideration, I still can notice a subtle edge with the noots. I was able to knowledgeably BS my way through a speech I had written the night before and ended up going over 10 minutes. I'm confident the only thing I'll lose for points is going over.
9:45 PM- The adderall is starting to wear off just as I get home from class. Took 100mg of 5-HTP and 2000mg of Pir to try and help with mood. Really do hate that stuff, it drives me nuts when its the only way I can get things done for class. Anyways, the rest of the week looks to be nice and easy. A couple assignments are due but it won't take me more than an hour to do each. At the moment I'm pretty worn from school and just life in general, spring break begins Friday night. I'm planning on slowly catching up on the work i've put off over break, so it won't be as stressful anymore.
03-10-2010, 11:28 AM
11:20- 2000mg Tyrosine
Slept pretty terribly, again. Not really feeling at all motivated today. I spent the rest of the morning doing dishes and cooking, it feels good to finally eat a solid meal again.
1:01- 1175mg Aniracetam
1000mg Choline Citrate
This is the highest dose I've tried with Aniracetam yet. In hindsight it seems to be just the right dose, I definitely notice the "speediness" with my thinking. Today I just geeked out and played CoD for most of the afternoon. While this is subjective as can be, I do think the Aniracetam "upped my game" so to speak, I didn't have a bad game the whole afternoon, not to mention my connection was amazing today.
4:45- 1175mg Aniracetam
1000mg Choline Citrate
Still lacking in the motivation department, not to mention mood and concentration. The past few weeks are still catching up with me, I'm still recovering from the extended Modafinil and interspaced adderall use. The rest of the night I really didn't do anything productive, the -racetams are helping to balance my mood but its probably gonna take another day or two before I feel like I'm back to normal. My room mate was nice enough to give me some hydroxyzine, so I popped 100mg around 8:00. I was finally able to wind down and get to sleep around 10:00.
03-15-2010, 06:14 PM
7:30- Woke up pretty pissed off. Got woken up at midnight, 1 and 2 by some of my room mates drunk friends. No mean feat considering what I took to sleep.
7:45- 2000mg Tyrosine
8:00- 1175mg Aniracetam
1000mg Choline Citrate
Feeling kinda irked this morning. I skipped the Pram because I had a feeling it might exacerbate my tiredness. While i'm not in the best mood, my mental condition still seems to be much better then yesterday. I'm definitely paying for skipping classes, catching up over break isn't going to be fun.
11:00- My mood finally starts to break and I start feeling better about life again in general.
12:45- 150mg Bupropion
1000mg Choline Citrate
1175 mg Aniracetam
Go to my third class of the day and do a fairly decent job multitasking between editing a paper and paying attention. Finished that class, skipped my last one, and spend the rest of the day doing absolutely nothing.
3/11-3/14- Three day bender in celebration of almost starting Spring Break.
03-16-2010, 03:26 PM
1:00- Woke up. Got a good 13 hours of sleep.
2:45- 150mg Bupropion
1000mg Choline Citrate
Finally pry myself away from Call of Duty and cooked breakfast/took my noots. This day I had been planning on doing some work but that never really fell through.
3:10- Slight tension headache. Meaning, I took a little too much of my noots. Felt a little spacey, but not very pronounced, played more Call of Duty because its the equivalent of twilight for men, and cleaned up the house.
5:20- 150mg Bupropion
1000mg Choline Citrate
Didn't end up getting any work done. I started texting a waitress that I had given my number on Saturday. One thing led to another and I convinced her to treat me to dinner because I'm a poor (and cute and charming) college student. She picked me up around 6:30 and we went to eat at one of the nicer cafe's near campus.
Racetams helping my game? Debatable. This is the first legitimate date I've been on since God knows when. I loathe to say this but I was a bit nervous, its been awhile since I've been one on one with a girl (outside of parties) spitting game. She also had me a bit nervous because she was 3 years older then me, I was pretty worried about coming across as an immature ****y little prick. Not to mention my Wellbutrin makes me shake like a mofo at the most inconvenient times.
I could say my noots gave me a subtle edge, but IDK if that is a 100% objective observation. Anyways, the rest of the night went well, we both loosened up, came back to my house, smoked some hookah, watched tv, and I pissed her off to the point where she started wrestling me. Even managed to snag a few goodnight kisses. Not a bad night in the least :-D
03-16-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm interested in trying this out, but cant find anything, unless its from alibaba.. Any pointers on where to get some?
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