Pramiracetam

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    I'm feeling a need for a random update at the moment.

    I've ceased taking Pram ED. Today was the first time I've dosed in probably a good 5 days. And right now, its amazing. I dosed my noots about twenty minutes ago at;

    ~2000mg Choline Citrate
    ~800mg Bulk 1-Carboxy
    ~1000mg Piracetam
    ~1200mg Pramiracetam (This is approximate.... I wasn't particularly anal about keeping track)
    ~1200mg Aniracetam
    ~1000mg L-Tyrosine

    Additionally- 2 caps Alpha Burn (total of 18mg Alpha-Yohimbine), a newly cracked NOS, and a sublingual B-12.

    Right now, mentally.... whooooo. I'm very single minded right now. I'm feeling very articulate, along with the typical dissociated feeling that high doses of Pram will give me. Kind of oxymoronic for a social situation, but since I'm studying this is perfect. I've had a bum day mentally and its nice to get some Pramiracetam induced distance from my emotions, its definitely muting the minor depressive episode I had earlier today. Right now the most noticeable effects, besides the overall cognition kickassery that Prams bring, are my perceptions of time and audio material. IMO time seems slightly slowed, I'd be an idiot to compare this to a Matrix-esque perception of time, but to me it seems my brain is firing very fast so that I can interpret events much quicker.

    Now for audio wise.... I'm listening to Eckharte Tolle's Practicing the Power of Now at the moment and its a very rich experience. I'm discerning the patterns of his breathing (usually I don't pay attention to the breath's he takes between phrases). After this I'll probably move onto some trance or techno.... or Bodom, who knows, really I'm just jonesing for any music with complexity.

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    Mind providing a source where you got the Pramiracetam? This stuff sounds really interesting.
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    Mind providing a source where you got the Pramiracetam? This stuff sounds really interesting.
    Check your PM's. I can also point you to some other noot's with good prices if you're interested. Nice norepinephrine DP btw.
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    How is the higher potency of Pramiracetam? Is it really noticeble compared to Piracetam? Anything weird in terms of reactions or anything related? Would you agree that it's 8-30 times as potent, got that number of Wikipedia?
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    How is the higher potency of Pramiracetam? Is it really noticeble compared to Piracetam? Anything weird in terms of reactions or anything related? Would you agree that it's 8-30 times as potent, got that number of Wikipedia?
    Good questions. I'll do my best to answer, but this is also subjective.

    Pramiracetam is more powerful than Piracetam. Period. 8-30 times more potent is a pretty ambiguous judgement, but it is without question that Piracetam does not hold a candle to Pramiracetam. In complete honesty, Pram probably ruined Piracetam for me, IMO its that powerful.

    And you will *feel* it the first time you take it. It puts you in on a completely different level of functioning. So yes, i would say its very noticeable compared to Piracetam. Which is also why this racetam seems to be hit or miss for most people. Its just so damn potent.

    Reactions wise, this is what I've noticed:
    -Too much will make you feel spacey. Whenever I took too much I felt very dissociated, everything feels out of touch, slightly dysphoric, poor concentration, pretty much every negative aspect of over-dosing nootropics can bring.
    -In tandem with my last point, for myself I've noticed that taking larger than normal doses of ACh precursors seems to negate the effects of an over-dose and increase functioning. From my own reasoning, i would say this is caused by potency, Pram is more potent per mg so you will need more choline (or said ACh-ergic agent of choice) than average.

    -Pros- At the right dose, there is a remarkable increase in motivation and goal achievement directed behavior. You will experience a drastic performance increase in linguistic related activities. I become extremely articulate whenever I take Pram. Improved memory recall, memorization, critical analysis, and conceptual processing is also something I experience.

    Neutral- Pram blunts my emotions. I don't like using it for social situations. My Myers-Briggs Personality Type is ENTJ, so in conversations I tend to shuttle emotions and empathy to the side anyways. Pram makes it even worse. But at the same time, if I'm in a funk, stressed, or in my typical ADD mindstate, Pram helps me focus sooooo much better. I notice my emotions, but they're on the peripheral, they no longer have an influence on my mental performance.

    Cons- Over-dosing Pram gives pretty sh!tty sides, once again due to its potency. As i'm sure you know, nootropics function on a Bell-Curve in terms of optimal dose, and potency will cause exaggerated effects. No doubt, to me at least, this is why Pram is very much hit or miss for nootropic fiends.. Pram is also pretty expensive, around $1.25/gram.

    Side Notes- From experience, Pram works best when combined with Aniracetam. The speediness of Aniracetam tends to counteract the sluggishness Pram can sometimes bring on. My advice is when you're studying, make sure you're in the zone before you take your Pram. I get distracted so easily that if I don't do this, I just d!ck around instead.

    Pram also has potent synergy with THC, if that's your thing. Its quite the experience and I would recommend trying it even if you are only an occasional smoker.

    Hope this helps!
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    Forgot to add this. Forgot to take my noots today. Definitely notice a difference, I've been in a pissy mood the whole day and just don't have the pep I usually have.
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    Ooh, another question. Have you had any experience with pramiracetam in terms of sleep? I remember from my experience of dosing piracetam with choline that I was getting a number of really interesting and nice instances of lucid dreams for days in a row. Being that pramiracetam is of higher potency, have you had any related, or improved, experiences in terms of sleeping and dreaming?
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    Ooh, another question. Have you had any experience with pramiracetam in terms of sleep? I remember from my experience of dosing piracetam with choline that I was getting a number of really interesting and nice instances of lucid dreams for days in a row. Being that pramiracetam is of higher potency, have you had any related, or improved, experiences in terms of sleeping and dreaming?
    Nice question.... I hadn't even considered that. Truth be told I'm not entirely too sure, but I'm leaning towards a yes. However I also use 1-Carboxy and Melatonin if I'm having trouble sleeping and those definitely have influenced my dreams.

    One instance particular stands out in my mind, I think I detailed it earlier in my log. I had gotten ahold of some modafinil one week and had particular trouble sleeping one night. Seeing as modafinil acts on H1 receptors in the brain to promote wakefulness, naturally I took 100mg-150mg of diphenhydramine because of its anti-histaminergic effect. Now diphenhydramine definitely has some effects on lucidity before and during sleep, but in this particular instance I was dumbfounded.

    I had been cramming for an O-Chem test the whole week and this was the night before the midterm. To be realistic, I had probably put in about ~25 hours of chemically enhanced cramming that whole weekend. So while I'm waiting to fall asleep I started running through reactions in my head; my train of thought usually runs rampant anyways so it didn't stick out to me initially. However, as the diphenhydramine became more pronounced, I was having literal visualizations of these reactions in my head. Electron transfer, solutes, drawn figures of chemical structures and the like, all of these were intensely visualized. It literally was like I was looking at a piece of paper and these reactions were being drawn on it.

    I have noticed that if you take Pram before bed, while it has a very interesting type of sedative/dissociative effect, you still will have a bit of trouble falling asleep. At least I did.
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    Great log PE. I've been using pram stacked with Anir/Pir/GPC choline for a year now. I've had times where I would go "off" due to unexpected travel. There is a marked difference when I'm on or off. I love it.....but alone I didn't find it to be the "king".

    Anyway.....keep up the log.
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    Great log PE. I've been using pram stacked with Anir/Pir/GPC choline for a year now. I've had times where I would go "off" due to unexpected travel. There is a marked difference when I'm on or off. I love it.....but alone I didn't find it to be the "king".

    Anyway.....keep up the log.
    Thanks for the reps and reading my log. I have to ask you; how has the GPC-Choline worked for you and in comparison to other choline sources? I'm hoping so save up some money over the summer and make another killer noot regimen for the fall, right now all I have is Pir with a tiny amount of Anir that I'm saving. At the moment I'm torn over what to use as a choline source; but I plan on getting something more expensive.
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    This stuff has some sides
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    Quote Originally Posted by lartinos View Post
    This stuff has some sides
    care to complete the thought?
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    care to complete the thought?
    Id be interested to know as well.

    You are the owner of Adderlin, LLC correct?
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    You are the owner of Adderlin, LLC correct?
    Como?
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    Como?
    Sorry that was directed to lartinos.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Sorry that was directed to lartinos.
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    PublicEnemy, can you please tell me, what happens to the information you "absorb" while your under the effect of pramiracetam, after the effect expires? Can you recall it quickly? Or do you forget it, and only remember when you take the drug again? Btw, very nice logs, they helped me a lot in my research!
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    Pramiracetam


    I Just started to use this as well and also noticed the fogginess. I found that using Chlorella and a couple drops of Lugols Iodine/Iodide in a liter of water really help to alleviate the fog. I also take it with choline. I have been consuming about 500mg of pram and 500mg of choline, no headaches really.
    Last edited by teknix; 02-18-2012 at 12:19 PM. Reason: fragment
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    Quote Originally Posted by teknix View Post
    I Just started to use this as well and also noticed the fogginess. I found that using Chlorella and a couple drops of Lugols Iodine/Iodide in a liter of water really help to alleviate the fog. I also take it with choline. I have been consuming about 500mg of pram and 500mg of choline, no headaches really.
    Thanks for the update, teknix. Pregnenolone can also cause brain fog if one's thyroid isn't functioning at an optimum level. I like that chlorella as well.
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    What if you use it daily for 6 months and then quit? Will you be dumber?
    I'm thinking about using DMAA, pram, phenibutenil, caffeine and B-complex daily.

    I'm pretty smart and also in high school. I've never used anything to help me with studying at but have problems with concentration and often tired as hell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by karli420 View Post
    What if you use it daily for 6 months and then quit? Will you be dumber?
    I'm thinking about using DMAA, pram, phenibutenil, caffeine and B-complex daily.

    I'm pretty smart and also in high school. I've never used anything to help me with studying at but have problems with concentration and often tired as hell.
    That's a very legitimate question. I've got to say that one product I have noticed tremendous neural enhancement is Testforce 2 (d-aspartic acid calcium chelate & sarcosine) and AndroDrive. With my brain and DAA, I feel hypomanic, but under control. When I stop taking it, I feel that sense of hastened thought process and creativity begin to fade away. Therefore I can imagine that with pram, whatever enhancement you get will most likely just disintegrate as you return to baseline levels of cognitive function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulayer View Post
    Pramiracetam is a lipid-soluble nootropic of the Racetam chemical family, and has a relatively similar chemical structure compared to its cousin Aniracetam. However, Pramiracetam is considerably much stronger than Aniracetam. Pramiracetam has the capabilities of increasing the long term memory of individuals, allowing information and knowledge obtained during the effective period of Pramiracetam to be recalled more easily. Considering that the high-affinity choline uptake (HACU) is increased implies an increase in the synthesis and release of Acetylcholine. This shows that Pramiracetam increases both the Hippocampal Acetylcholine activity and the learning and memory encoding process.
    Strong copy-paste skills. I see you've discovered Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V!
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    Strong copy-paste skills. I see you've discovered Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V!
    Damn, I thought it was an OP! I gave reps, too... Hey, I've got pram and noopept that I'll cap on an individual basis and I must say, the combo is almost mindblowing. I can tune into things like an HD monitor, adjusting resolution. Yesterday before a radioshow, I took 20mg noopept, 150mg pram, 1200mg serinaid, 500mg citicoline, and 100mg caffeine from Black Powder Ultra and DAMN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Damn, I thought it was an OP! I gave reps, too... Hey, I've got pram and noopept that I'll cap on an individual basis and I must say, the combo is almost mindblowing. I can tune into things like an HD monitor, adjusting resolution. Yesterday before a radioshow, I took 20mg noopept, 150mg pram, 1200mg serinaid, 500mg citicoline, and 100mg caffeine from Black Powder Ultra and DAMN.
    What does a stack like that (minus caffeine) run you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    What does a stack like that (minus caffeine) run you?
    Well, I bought the smallest sizes of pram and noopept, which may have been +/- $50 (shipping included), but lasts a while. The Serinaid (20% p-serine) is amazing at the high doses and for 300 gels costs around $60. Citicoline = $20.00 from a local shop, but cheaper for more quantity online. The Black Powder Ultra (at Nutra) is the perfect adjunct for this type of concoction, as the bicarbonates provide for a more basic pH environment, the tyrosine content is just right, and the caffeine doesn't overdo it.
    Also, I take FOCUS everyday, by Androfactory. Albeit I just became a rep for the company, this was because I was so amped up about the product. It has 'super' preg and dhea, which are absolutely paramount as neuromodulators for cholinergic channels, dopaminergic transmission (along with Citicoline increasing dopamine receptor density), and other functions such as adrenal upregulation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Well, I bought the smallest sizes of pram and noopept, which may have been +/- $50 (shipping included), but lasts a while. The Serinaid (20% p-serine) is amazing at the high doses and for 300 gels costs around $60. Citicoline = $20.00 from a local shop, but cheaper for more quantity online. The Black Powder Ultra (at Nutra) is the perfect adjunct for this type of concoction, as the bicarbonates provide for a more basic pH environment, the tyrosine content is just right, and the caffeine doesn't overdo it.
    Also, I take FOCUS everyday, by Androfactory. Albeit I just became a rep for the company, this was because I was so amped up about the product. It has 'super' preg and dhea, which are absolutely paramount as neuromodulators for cholinergic channels, dopaminergic transmission (along with Citicoline increasing dopamine receptor density), and other functions such as adrenal upregulation.
    I have been told pram not only requires smaller dosages, but its effects also tend to last a bit longer than pira-- would you say that is accurate?

    I am not familiar with Serinaid. Would you happen to have any additional info on it? I am currently doing a basic stack consisting of piracetam at about 3g, choline citrate at approx. 4-4.5g and sulbutiamine ( can't remember the dosage right now). I dose them1-2x/ED.
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    Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    I have been told pram not only requires smaller dosages, but its effects also tend to last a bit longer than pira-- would you say that is accurate?

    I am not familiar with Serinaid. Would you happen to have any additional info on it? I am currently doing a basic stack consisting of piracetam at about 3g, choline citrate at approx. 4-4.5g and sulbutiamine ( can't remember the dosage right now). I dose them1-2x/ED.
    Most definitely, Purebred. I can post up info later from a 'quoted' source, but right now I'll go from what's off the top of my head about Serinaid and the other.

    I agree with what you described of pramiracetam. I need not even take the recommended amount that one typically finds in capsules. I take half of that (150mg). Same with Noopept. Some start at 25mg and ramp to 150mg (absurd IMO). This is usually the result of not enough pregnenolone in the body. Pregnenolone is the identifiable marker for which the racetams will continue to work (theoretically) indefinitely.

    Serinaid is a workable matrix of p-serine, p-choline, and p-ethanolamine that provides a certain yield of each, depending on what % you find. I love it. I don't use DMAE and can't stand it, personally, because dimethylethanolamine has many studies that it is detrimental to health whether taken orally or used in a skin cream. I will cite studies if need be, but even in skincare cream it has been shown to cause apoptosis in skin cells. I prefer the p-ethanolamine in the Serinaid.

    Your stack looks very nice, though I haven't tried sulbutiamine lately. I'd like to get good ole piracetam back into my mix and eventually do this 2x a day, as far as nootropics: 1 gram piracetam, 150mg pramiracetam, 20mg noopept. I like choline citrate's safety profile and it's applications, but I find that Citicoline gives me a good pep to my step and alpha-gpc gives a good choline donor as well, whilst having nootropic-like properties.
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    Nice info in here. I am a big fan of pramiracetam myself.
  

  
 

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