Speed given to kids for ADHD
- 06-02-2009, 04:36 AM
Speed given to kids for ADHD
Ok not sure this is the right forum...not sure where else to put it. I have been looking into it lately because I know I went through it a a kid.
I had ADHD and basically what was explained to my parents was I was being given legal speed while in elementary school to balance me out.
I am having a hard time understanding the fact I was being pumped full of amphetamines. As a kid I know I had insane emotional swings on this crap. Crying in class, anger, confusion. Also hallucinated, and developed nightmares and some OCD.
WTF, thinking back with what memory I do have of growing up(very little) I remember having to overcome chemically induced depression, withdrawal from medications once my parents finally told the doctors and school to FK off, OCD, paranoia, etc,etc. Had to do it all by myself mentally.
They still give this crap to kids! Just looking for some chemistry based majors, or someone with medical background to check in. I also trust some of you more advanced steroid users to chime in, since usually your studies cover a large variety of bodily interactions.
I know drinking a cup of coffee can either stimulate me or put me to sleep depending on what I want nowadays.
The chemical damage that gets done is a joke. In all reality my entire life my thoughts have always been flighty, I cant hold a thought for too long. I cant see images in my head, which is why I basically have no memory. I know it happened, but I have to imagine what it musta looked like.
Because I was hyper in school I had to go through all of that for 5-7 years, and still deal with the memory issue? Do they still prescribe this as wide spread to kids? Are parents educated enough to know whats going on?
I just dont get how they can justify this. Over medicating our kids is retarded.
- 06-02-2009, 10:18 AM
I don't have much personal experience here, but I agree with you about overmedicating kids. It happens with adults too. I know a lady who is pretty flighty and has a somewhat short attention span. She takes adderal "to help her focus" Then she also drinks a ton of coffee throughout the day. I don't know all the chemistry involved, but I think if parents would invest more time in "raising kids" instead of shuttling them off to school and let the teachers raise them and deal with them, things would be different. I'm not trying to start any kind of debate or flame anyone in any way for personal situations so I don't want anyone to take offense. I grew up at a babysitters house, which was my aunt, so I'm not different or special in my up bringing.
I think it's important to remember that doctors make money by "treating" people and selling meds. I think a large portion of people's medical problems could be addressed and treated with behavior modifications, ie stop eating fast food 6 times a week to lower cholesterol, stop smoking, stop drinking, etc. Instead the doctor puts them on BP meds, instead of prescribing a better diet, exercise. Cholesterol lowering meds instead of nutrition education. And no, not every doctor is like this, there are still good docs out there that really care about pts, just not enough of them.
06-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Doctors would rather sell some drugs to treat the symptoms than treat the cause. It's ridiculous how any child that is hyper or has some trouble paying attention has a "disorder". Why must they turn any out-of-the-ordinary behavior into a disorder or disease? There are so many other factors that could be causing the behavior. There's no reason to mass-prescribe such a serious drug UNLESS absolutely necessary.
06-02-2009, 11:47 AM
06-02-2009, 02:15 PM
I was reading up on it. Learned that both the U.S. and Germany crammed it down soldiers throats in WW II to lesson battle fatigue
Man the medical system needs revamped. Everyone becomes a doctor just for the cash anymore. I remember at one docs a business man came in with a baggy, handed the doctor some "samples" and some papers, and made some remarks I didnt like, and took off.
Seriously, this is why the federal government needs trimmed down, so that then states individually might be man enough to shut out pharmaceutical companies from being directly involved with doctor.
06-11-2009, 06:10 AM
Being a human studies major (mainly psychology, but also sociology, anthropology, and criminology) this is an area of great interest to me. Personally...I can't stand the horsesh*t these medical doctors prescribe for kids. Hell...every kid gets hyper. However, today...if a kid gets too hyper or behaves strangely, or has mood swings...they have a mental disorder and that is total BS.
I have a personal issue with the mental health community because I am tired of these psychiatrists making money off of putting kids on drugs when they never should be put on anything to begin with. To be honest...most people, and especially parents generally go about things the wrong way. You should never go to a psychiatrist first...the reason being...they make their money off of prescribing drugs and treatment. A psychologist on the other hand actually takes the time to observe if there are any real issues.
Hell perfectly healthy children are being put on mental health drugs when there is nothing wrong with them and because of the drugs they actually develop a disorder and then become dependent on the chemicals. Damn this issue pisses me off! F*ck! This is a topic I discuss in my classes on a daily basis so I apologize if I am getting a bit to into this discussion.
"Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
06-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Lo and behold 6 months later I shook his hand for the last time and walked out that door with tools that will last me my entire life. He was a good man, and knew what he was doing. If I ever see him again I would thank him still for the tools he gave to me. I mean currently my life(massive debt=to the next 3 years of my life to pay off, female issues, health issues, major dental issues, etc) should warrant depression. But I know better, I mean sometimes things drive me down. But never like back then.
If you take time to teach, you can solve so much more than a damn pill will. Personally I wish SSRI's were never discovered. Yes some people have an authentic need for them, but in your society prescription medication is tossed to every one for everything. The docs damn near killed my dad by OD with the meds he was on and still is(morphine combined with other pain killers, anti depressants, blood thinners, and a ton of other crap just to stay alive and hold pain at bay).
All of it came from the fact no one is willing to learn through suffrage anymore, no one is willing to die, and no one is willing to face reality. Its so much easier to take a happy pill and say Fk it.
In other words, I completely agree
06-11-2009, 02:28 PM
Children who are ADHD are often ADHD adults as well.
You are still very young.
You likely still have the same issues but believe because you are all grown up at 22 you have somehow overcome this chemical imbalance. You have simply developed methods that you believe have allowed you to function properly.
You would seriously need to see yourself the way others see you for you to get a true assesment of that ability to function on both and intellectual and emotional level. Uncontrolled impulsiveness is a tell tale sign and symptom BTW.
The medical profession offers medication to control the chemicals but the patient also needs behavioral supervison as well as behavioral manegement counceling. Unless both are implemented there really is no long term resolution.
You are very young and likely still need treatment in both manners. The challenge is knowing what proper treatment is and finding a professional that will implement and supervise that in your case.
06-11-2009, 03:01 PM
And truthfully as a parent I can totally understand why they do it. I have now 3 kids, all intelligent, relatively sane(2 are girls so its iffy), and due to me not being a millionaire they go to public school. Would it be fair to my kids to not get a decent education because some kid who isn't getting an education anyhow since he's not paying attention is also perpetually absorbing all of the teachers time dealing with his behavior? I'd be totally bent out of shape. Its bad enough when the teacher has to do that because parents wont bother teaching their kids to read, or working on their homework, but when its a medically treatable condition theres no reason not to.
What sort of shape do you think you'd be in now if you never were able to learn to read because nobody had the patience to try and teach you to because you never paid attention when you were 5?
or your parents could have tried this
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BUEDffRLM"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]
06-13-2009, 08:08 PM
I had a discussion about ADD medication with a co-worker lastnight. He brought up how his son (8 years of age) was put on Adderall a couple years ago because of his inattenativeness and fidgety manner. I asked him how his grades were in school, and he said he received a couple F's on his last report card. I didn't say anything, but I was thinking: what benefit is this amphetamine really giving this kid? He could be off the drug and couldn't possibly do any worse on his school work than he did while on it. I'm not trying to be judgmental of the kid or anything, but it seems like this drug has obviously failed for him, but yet the father will still fill his script every month. Then the father also tells me how his son is too small and skinny for sports, and wouldn't allow him to participate in any. Again, I kept my thoughts to myself, but Hello? You're dosing out speed to your son every morning - I wouldn't feel like eating a damn thing either!
06-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, there is often no social and psychological counseling along with the medication. That is a failure of the parent. The medication is to reduce the symptoms to manageable and the counseling for the child to be taught, learn and implement self control and life skills.
06-14-2009, 06:59 PM
yes, theres a difference between a couple of Fs, and all Fs as well. Just like with changing supplements, you have to compare it to what the baseline was
06-14-2009, 08:18 PM
I may still be young, and by many means still learning alot. I know little of in comparison to the whole of this world, but I know a fair share more than many my age I believe. But that is also why I am a bit of an extremist sometimes and leave rational out.
I am definitely not ADHD at all anymore, though I could see some side effects of ADD in certain parts of my life. Not enough to control my actions though.
And yeah, outside of the medicine I had my arse whooped good a few times. IT works, but most parents today(i am sure you know how to properly reprimand a child considering I already know you are intelligent individuals) are too much of a ***** to whip the kid, or the cross the line and abuse the poor child.
My moms arm twists 220 degrees backwards lol, i know sitting behind her in the car is no protection. I just dont like Medications, It is BS they didnt always have it, and now that they do they hand it out like pez candies.
Considering how many childrend are diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, psychologists are, like you said, usually avoided. Then again I would think them pointless at that age over being hyper.
I learned from strict reinforcement of myself, because my father and mother were both severely injured, and I had my dad die on my a good 3-4 times.
Drugs for behavior modification are BS, there are other ways. I dont care how much research supports them, God never intended his children to NEED an exogenous chemical to live their lives. Even outside of religious ideals, its just wrong how chemical dependant our society is today.
06-14-2009, 11:03 PM
Kids who are supposed to be calmed down while on the medication constantly run all over the store/pharmacy waiting area, push buttons on the security doors, rip things off the shelves, etc. They do whatever the hell they want and the parents do nothing. They say "oh, he just has ADD or ADHD it's just how he is." I'm thinking "WTF? are you kidding me?" IMO and from my own personal experience, these kids just need someone to talk to and someone to discipline them. Not hit, yell at, or anything like that, but they just don't even seem like they know right from wrong. If they do, they raise hell just because they know they can and get away with it.
I have a 2yr old myself and if I were to not discipline him, he'd go crazy all day everyday lol. If I were like most parents, i'd say "I can't control him, he doesn't listen to me, and he's very hyper." Well guess what? ALL kids are hyper, ALL kids don't listen every time they're told something. That's what kids do. I discipline my son, show him right and wrong, talk to him and make him understand that what he does is wrong, and he can't be all crazy 24/7. Most parents these days honestly just don't want to "deal with it." They'd rather put their kids in front of the tv and let that teach them everything. They think it's too bothersome and too hard to raise their kids these days. It's just another thing that is happening from americans getting lazier and lazier. How many kids do you think are on ADD or ADHD medications in Europe, China, Australia, anywhere else? Not anywhere near as many as in the US. Sorry for the long post, but just really bothers me. As for your memory loss, have you tried any supplements yet? There are other ways to go about things rather than prescription medications, and this is coming from someone who is currently in pharmacy school haha.
06-14-2009, 11:08 PM
Forgot to add, when these kids get prescribed the medications, it's usually by their family care doctor, not even a specialist. So they get no therapy, no consultation, they just get the drugs and the physician says "here, this will make things better." If the parents would have tried therapy first, I can pretty much guarantee a deeper-rooted problem would arise, it would be attended to, and the child would eventually get better. Instead, the child has a regular doctors visit, the doctor says "yea, he/she has ADD or ADHD and gives he/she medication. Period, nothing more happens. BIG MISTAKE.
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
Great info and input man. Its all about shorcuts anymore...Take my finances I am facing 2-3 years of recovery to pay off debts, or I could take the shortcut and file bankruptcy-but I am resisting that.
BTW technically I should be depressed. You know what, im not on any anti-depressants. I am self medicating though...Food+Supps+Gym time.. darn addicting stuff....
My dad bent me over his knee my fair share of times before he was injured. My actual discipline came from my parents becoming disabled, and me having to step up to a few thing, especially considering my brother.
As for my memory loss, I duno what to do. I have used plenty of supps in the last two years, but none geared at memory enhancement. I will put it this way, as a Kid i used to be able to sit down, look at a picture, and draw it on another sheet of paper, very well. And even conjure my own drawings...I have old notepads of this. Today I sit down to draw...paper is better left white. Knowledge seems to stay in my head, history, ideas lessons, etc, skills, function, etc. But visual memory unless it is cued by a current view of that object is naught. Even faces, I could seriously forget what my best friends look like until I see them each time.
06-16-2009, 07:44 AM
Personally, from all of my human studies (about 11 years of direct study...yes I took college courses in high school)...I consider most of the descriptions of ADD and ADHD to be completely ass backwards. ADHD is the more serious of the two disorders. The reason being...those with ADHD are more prone to serious emotional episodes and mood swings. Those with ADD have a hit or miss type of mentality...when they are on...they are locked in...nothing shakes their concentration (go figure...a disease that makes you not only unable to focus, but also makes you hyper focus), but when they are off...they can't focus for longer than seconds, let alone minutes on a given topic....in essence, inconsistency rules the mind.
The problem with the chemical imbalance in regards to the disorders are within the scope of dopamine and serotonin. Another more important thing to mention...those with ADHD actually are more susceptible to developing Alzheimer's disease....the connection being the imbalance and inconsistency with dopamine.
I have been studying psychology pretty much since I was a young one and through the years I can honestly say there are not many mental health doctors out there that are worth the time of day. Most of them are a complete joke. As I stated...the diagnosing of ADHD and ADD I believe is ass backwards and why I say that...ADHD is linked more to a genetic (nature) origin, ADD is linked more so to environmental factors (nurture).
What I find most absurd...a lot of these so called professionals have not taken any courses in sociology, or anthropology (criminology is a bonus subject, but definitely helpful)...two areas which need to be explored and studied in order to properly diagnose people. I have had 5 great professors which I have learned a great deal from because they studied all four major human studies disciplines prior to me doing the same.
In closing, Zero...you could have been misdiagnosed. I can not say for sure and that the same time that is none of my business so no offense intended. However, a possibility for you to think about...you mention reinforcement. That brings up a very curious theory for you to ponder...it is possible that your possible disorder has been a conditioned response. Therefore, environmental factors caused your issues. For more of an explanation on conditioning, look into both classical and operant conditioning. Classical conditioning is based upon Pavlov's theories. Operant conditioning is based on B.F. Skinner.
"Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
06-16-2009, 05:48 PM
I admit as a kid, I know ADHD was an issue for me. Not because of energy, but my focus in school how horrid it was. The damn table legs would be more fascinating than the lesson. I honestly think it change from ADHD into what is more defined as ADD, and that I believe in some form may have side effects today. Considering how many half starting things I have that I lost interest in. Ironically long RTS games are a favorite of mine(4 hours sometimes for 1 game) and reading is a love. Which doesnt normally add up for ADD.
All I know is memory wise, I can story information, but not memories themselves. Not properly at least. Being in school helps, but during vacations or laxity times, my brain almost deteriorates. I feel like I think outside f my head, instead of in it.
Now from 06-08 I did suffer from pretty crazy mood swings, there was 6 months of a psychologist(a damn good one) in early 06, but emotionally the world left me messed up for the longest time. Which I bring up because of what you mentioned about bipolar disorder. I was technically a bit Manic Depressive or whatnot. Which Actually accounts for a bit of my debt because in mood swings I would do stupid shizt.
My break up with my ex actually brought on the most torrential swings I thought possibly between pain/sadness/anger, then randomly into calmness. Like I said I dont do medication. So I took time to mentally structure myself, built myself a framework, and today Would not react like that at all if a similar situation happened. But about 90% of my memory of her is forgotten unless I try really hard. All I know is her face=hurt lol, which sadly happens 1-2 times a week
Honestly its one of the reasons I hate prescription based treatments. It gave me more things to fight through growing up, after the ADHD meds like stated I spent about 3 years in a secluding depression state. Both ADD and ADHD I believe can be treated naturally. My friends regard me as intelligent, but in honesty I am flighty as hell, I just turned it to my advantage and hide that part secret. Oftentimes people see me star out a window for an hour intently focused. When a problem arises, I know problems are 80% perception. And if you can alter your perception, the answer usually wait. My inability to keep one train of thought for too long allows me to hyper cycle, for lack of a better name, through many ideas/views. There is aways a solution when people come to me, in some form at least. But this is also why no one can ever help me. My problems rotate, so by the time someone is treating one, its something else bothering me.
I am not controlled by any form of ADHD or ADD, but it seems there are after effects.
FUG Used too many "I"'s in there its poor grammar. Despise the use of that letter, in fact when writing for college some like me carry a preference for "one" lol.
06-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Honestly...the only way to know if you had any sort of actual problem is if you had test come back showing you have a chemical imbalance...without evidence such as that, being diagnosed is just opinionated bullsh*t the doctor is making up to put money in his or her pocket.
Well, from what you are telling me...I wouldn't go as far as to say you were manic depressive (that is a very serious disorder). Actually, you suffered a traumatic experience...you have had a case of post traumatic stress disorder...now you will generally only hear about that dealing with soldiers of war mostly, but PTSD can be caused anytime a person's emotional infrastructure is turned upside down more or less. A lot of people struggle with handling their emotions, especially due to heartbreak, but other major traumatic experiences such as death, or loss of a job, etc can lead to a person developing PTSD. A common misdiagnosis actually is that people are diagnosed as being bipolar, or being manic depressive when in fact...PTSD is the issue. Just some food for thought for you. To make something clear as well...bipolar disorder and manic depressive disorder are actually genetically caused, but the environment plays the role of the activator more or less, where PTSD on the other hand is environmental...meaning it can develop at anytime, and anyone can have it happen to them.
To be honest...the more I think about it...now by all means I am only going off what you are relaying to me through words so I definitely can't be sure, but rather only throw out hypothetical theories...it sounds like PTSD was your issue as your emotional issues, but in regards to the attention and memory issues...I would say it actually has nothing to do with ADHD/ADD, but rather a memory disorder of sorts.
Please by no means am I trying to dig into your personal life....I don't want to step on your toes. I am just curious if you had any serious traumatic experiences when you were younger, or did you suffer a minor head injury...like maybe playing a sport you got a slight concussion or something? The only reason I ask...if you suffered a traumatic experience at a younger age...you very well could have had PTSD since that point....unlikely yes, but still very possible, and this is often an issue that is overlooked by many mental health professional. The reason I ask about the possible head injury...even the slightest of head injuries can do unforeseen damage...from your descriptions...its possible you may very well have a memory disorder of sorts. Honestly man I mean no offense and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. This is just an area which I have studied for quite some time and an area which I take very seriously because I am tired of people being f*cked up by drugs that should never be prescribed to them for one, and for two I enjoy helping people without having money being the motivating factor.
"Never trust a b*tch because b*tches be crazy, now get out there and go crush some P***Y!" - Jerry Stiller.
10-16-2010, 02:25 AM
So I read about half of the thread and scanned the rest, but basically I just wanted to add my two cents.
I have been through therapy and medications, and I only got anything out of medication. I was put on Prozac, an SSRI, and gradually moved up to 40mg/day for about a year, at which point I decided to slowly come off of them. Prozac was a miracle drug for me, it helped me see outside the walls of my depression, the walls that were holding everyone off, including my therapist. For some people, generally those with a legitimate chemical imbalance (i.e. - me) proper use of prescribed medications DO work.
It's different for everyone, and if you can work through it with therapy, more power to you.
I realize this is a bit off topic from the main post, stimulants and ADHD, but I saw a post mentioning an SSRI.
For clarification, I am, however, against over-medicating anyone, especially kids. There are, thankfully, a few good doctors left out there.
06-01-2011, 11:58 PM
so as a child i was diagnosed with adhd and post traumatic stress disorder as i got older i was then diagnosed with bipolar 1,anxiety,depression,adha, and insomnia...so for about 7 years i have been on more or less 27 different meds for bipolar disorder etc.....i have since switched pyshc's due to the fact i have moved and my new pysch states i have ptsd and adhd i have basically been misdiagnosed and wrongly medicated ..hmm go figure,,now i am on wellbutrin,and adderral...and i feel sooo much better ..alot of times they misdiagnose adhd and ptsd with bipolar disorder, due to similar symptoms thank god i finally got a pysch who realized my child hood was very traumatic and looked back to my initial diagnoses of adhd and ptsd and took his time to say hey you have not needed to be on all these other drugs ..wonder if thats why none of the bipolar meds worked and only made me 10 times worse off...hmmm.....but anyways i lost my point of this posting...
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