Gyno from Novedex XT?? please help

  1. Gyno from Novedex XT?? please help


    I am concerned about a estrogen rebound i may be having. I have been taking Novedex XT for a couple of weeks now dosage- 40mg ed. My recent research has shown that may be a little high. My left nipple is painful and worse when touching it. I have a small lump underneath the nipple too. I have no history of AAS. Please advise.
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe


  2. use suma to restore hormonal levels, I doubt your problem is from novedex because it has no androgenic properties, just anabolic ones. May need to take saw palmetto with phosphatidylserine as well to block cortisol secretion.

  3. I dont think cortsione is the problem here. It's some badass rebound I've been having and i wanted some advise ont what to do about it.
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by thaOrleanyte View Post
    I dont think cortsione is the problem here. It's some badass rebound I've been having and i wanted some advise ont what to do about it.
    Taper off. Just use 1 cap at night for a few weeks, and then for another few weeks, use 1 EOD. This should help you get back to normal.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Taper off. Just use 1 cap at night for a few weeks, and then for another few weeks, use 1 EOD. This should help you get back to normal.
    I agree.

    Gyno = Hormone levels out of whack
    4 caps = Hormone Levels out of whack
    1 cap = Not to much
    0 caps = Homeostasis and gyno goes away

  6. Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Taper off. Just use 1 cap at night for a few weeks, and then for another few weeks, use 1 EOD. This should help you get back to normal.
    I dosed 4 caps for 6 weeks, then tapered down to 2 caps for a week, then 1 cap for a week.

    Have had none of the symptoms you describe. I've been off for 2 weeks now and my libido is returning as well.

  7. i've cut down to 2 ed and my symptoms are starting to subside. thanks thaO
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Taper off. Just use 1 cap at night for a few weeks, and then for another few weeks, use 1 EOD. This should help you get back to normal.
    x3


    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    use suma to restore hormonal levels, I doubt your problem is from novedex because it has no androgenic properties, just anabolic ones. May need to take saw palmetto with phosphatidylserine as well to block cortisol secretion.
    Gyno from estrogen rebound after running a potent AI (even solo) like ATD or Letrozole happens more than you may realize.

  9. I ran Rebound Reloaded and got a bad case of estrogen rebound. Nothing helped it until I took Epidrol. Not only got rid of the extra gyno I had, but it took away my pubertal gyno. That stuff is AMAZING! Side effects sucked for me (sleeplessness, irritability, night sweats, and other flu-like symptoms) but it was totally worth it.

  10. I'm really starting to think that using AIs as stand alone anabolics is a truly BAD idea...Ive had nothing but problems doing that.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by JohnnieFreeze View Post
    I'm really starting to think that using AIs as stand alone anabolics is a truly BAD idea...Ive had nothing but problems doing that.
    I don't think I would agree with that other than 6-bromo. I hate that crap.

    I just really think they need to be modestly dosed. ATD should be 25mg once a day or even EOD.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    I don't think I would agree with that other than 6-bromo. I hate that crap.

    I just really think they need to be modestly dosed. ATD should be 25mg once a day or even EOD.

    Why don't you like 6-Bromo Cannon? IMO if I were to run a standalone AI it'd definitely be Form.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    Why don't you like 6-Bromo Cannon? IMO if I were to run a standalone AI it'd definitely be Form.
    It gave me gyno. haha.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Irish Cannon View Post
    It gave me gyno. haha.

    Well there's not more of a better reason than that

  15. All side effects have stopped. Really not worth it to run standalone. Live and learn.
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe

  16. Interesting. I have never noticed a negative side from an AI (other than fluxuation in libido, be it higher or lower). I've tried almost all of the OTC AI's out there, with the exception of Formestane, and got my best results from Novadex XT. How was your mass/strength gain from running it at 4 ed? I recomped decently while gaining what I consider great strength gains from an AI (a Gaspari one at that).

  17. Well as far as strength and mass gains, it was nothing amazing, and really not more than normal. Although I didnt finish the bottle as i had the gyno flareup. I've taken AI's before with decent success and no flareup. I have another theory..........hmmmm........ I may have had a hormonal imbalance due to my wife being pregnant and that whole Couvade syndrome thing, which is plausible i guess. They say that when your wife is all pregnant and ****, her *****ing and moaning lowers your test levels and even give you pregnancy symptoms. haha. Didnt think it would happen to me.


    ThaO
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe

  18. I can't imagine that Novedex XT would result in Gyno. That seems very unusual.

    Maybe you are naturally susceptible to Gyno and other sides. Has anything else in your diet/supplement regimen changed?

    Seems that your problem is solved, but I'm just curious to know how Novedex could cause such a reaction when some real gear doesn't even cause it. This is very interesting.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DropSet View Post
    I can't imagine that Novedex XT would result in Gyno. That seems very unusual.

    Maybe you are naturally susceptible to Gyno and other sides. Has anything else in your diet/supplement regimen changed?

    Seems that your problem is solved, but I'm just curious to know how Novedex could cause such a reaction when some real gear doesn't even cause it. This is very interesting.
    The stronger an AI, or the more the estro supression, the more of a chance of rebound creating gyno. ATD is a potent AI.

  20. Never ran it in a stand alone but I like it for my pct when I'm done with a ph cycle

  21. Novedex is ATD based, correct? Isn't that a suicide inhibitor? If that's the accepted theory, then how are we theorizing rebound?

    I've ran too many AI standalone runs to count, all of them extremely positive experiences. Other than creatine, AI's are the only "supplements" that make a noticable difference for me. I've never had any rebound and have evolved my preference to NOT taper actually. I still taper at the end of a pct, but honestly I think that's because I can't dodge the broski paranoia. Go figure I guess everyone's different.

    Edit: just saw this thread pop back up. I was dead wrong. I rebounded about 4-6 weeks post pct after a Havoc to SD bridge. PCT was 4 weeks torem, 6 weeks 6oxo. IIRC, I did taper the 6oxo, but still had the rebound. Symptoms included a small lump and sharp sensitivity when bumped.

  22. yeah, im no scientest. I've run a ATD/6 bromo before with no estrogen related effects, but this time with the novedex i had a solid case of what i understand gyno to be. Its wierd. Im really thinkin it might be due to "sympathy" symptoms that could happen my old lady being pregnant. hmmmmmm.....
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe

  23. It's time a lot of you guys drop the science behind this stuff. There are always new studies finding that certain drugs cause certain side-effects that were previously labeled impossible from that specific drug.

    6-bromo gave me worse gyno than converted Synovex did. I got rid of the Test Prop-gyno (Synovex) from a quick dose of Nolvadex. I tried EVERYTHING to get rid of the 6-bromo gyno and nothing worked until I used Epidrol.

    The more into bodybuilding I get, the more I understand the Keep It Simple method. Bodybuilding isn't as complicated as so many people on this forum make it out to be.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thaOrleanyte View Post
    i had a solid case of what i understand gyno to be
    Maybe I missed where you said it. So do you have a lump or abnormal nipple sensations? Have you had any symptoms, to whatever degree, in the past?

  25. yeah i had a small lump underneath my nipple and a throbbing/itching pain
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe

  26. Out of the few 100+ threads that those Docs and Van Mol this is what I got from it. Since estrogen is necessary for bone health, mood, libido, etc. the more level of supression an AI has the higher chances of rebound. Rebound might not be the best phrase, but it seems once you start eliminating estrogen, like many things the body notices the deficit and try to create more than it did previously from pregnenolone/cholesterol. The more that's gone, the further the body attempts to synthesize more. Drop the AI and the phase where estrogen slowly comes back to normal and thre phase of the body attempting to synthesize more estrogen can 'overlap' before this process goes back to normal. During the 'overlap' estro levels can be too high in some people. Which's maybe why tapering seems to help

    Everyone's different and it doesn't happen to many people, but it does seem to happen. Probably the people who have hormonal imbalances, or even people who are gyno prone & have high estro levels since birth. People who should never run AAS but do anyhow. An example of this one idiot I know - he was 'toying' with the idea of running his 1st AAS cycle for a while. He had gyno at a young age but it went away as he got older and he decided to run Epi anyhow. Got gyno with while ON Epi. Used Letro to get rid of gyno. Ran 2 more cycles after, got gyno on both. Ever since before his 1st cycle, every person he spoke to recommended he not use AAS.

  27. Hey folks, i think novedex xt is not atd isnt the atd known as 6oxo?? I didnt find the compound of 6oxo anywhere on the novedex xt label. Novedex xt has 2 ai compounds and one of them is called dienestrozole or something like that and i think is the same one encountered on rebound xt diene-3 as they call it (but this is just my assumption as im not sure if diene-3 and dienestrozole is the same stuff). Diete-3 is indeed a suicidal ai which binds to the aromatize enzyme irreversible and thus cannot be a rebound, but thats the diene-3 i dont know about the dienestrozole found in novedex xt.
    Does someone know if diene-3 and dienestrozole are the same thing???

  28. Rebound-XT = ATD

    Rebound Reloaded = 6-bromo

  29. Is there anyway that straight up 6-Bromo is aggravating my gyno? I think it is but sometimes I feel like i'm just being paranoid. If anything, shouldn't it make it better?

  30. Quote Originally Posted by T50 View Post
    Is there anyway that straight up 6-Bromo is aggravating my gyno? I think it is but sometimes I feel like i'm just being paranoid. If anything, shouldn't it make it better?
    Welcom to AM, and yes there is a possibility that 6-bromo can reactivate gyno, all suicidal armomatize inhibitors increase the probability if one is prone to it or does not taper off it properly when needed.
    doing my own thang!

  31. Never thought Nova would give someone Gyno

    did 4 pills for 6weeks+3days and never had problems with that. Got really lethargic though

  32. i never taken that stuff.....but i swear i dont really trust the OTC stuff anymore....alot of these "estrogen blockers" in my opinion may be bogus. dont get me wrong i do believe tren and other things do work.....but PTC is so critical, and to rely on an OTC PTC is no longer in my lineup.....gonna be a true SERM or nothing for me. I am definately not a guru when it comes to this stuff, so correct me if i'm wrong guys!

  33. Just thought I'd chime in with this:
    If you are actually somehow experiencing estrogen rebound with an AI, a low dose of Nolva for a week or two would solve the problem, since it would allow estrogen levels to balance out, while blocking estro in breast tissue.
    That said, I don't really see how a weak standalone OTC AI could cause this, since you should also have high test and DHT levels (androgens keep estrogen under control).
  

  
 

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