- 12-17-2009, 11:39 AM
- 12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
12-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Well I guess after waiting this long I will have to give Utima a try. The timing will be good for me since I am currently evaluating PreMax, and RagNOrok. This will allow be to establish a basis for the evaluation of Ultima against both of these products.
12-18-2009, 11:13 AM
12-18-2009, 11:49 AM
12-20-2009, 02:47 PM
In making the changes, we of course had to weigh all of the options.
I mean we could have added all the ingredients and extra amounts we did and not decreased the Carnosine and the B12, which admittedly was the hardest choice, but this would then be retailing in the neighborhood of $70. Not very realistic.
We feel the decrease in Carnosine is permissbale given the double amount of Beta-Alanine if you follow the upper-tier dosing protocol. Given this change, we do not forsee any discernable decrease in performance. I challened anyone not to have unbelievable workouts on 3200mg of beta-alanine and 400mg of Carnosine, or even half that if following the standard dose, ecspecially with everything else working in synergistic harmony.
You'll also get double the creatine and double the amount of glucuronolactone with the upper-tier dosing.
All in all, I personally think we struck a great balance in deciding what to increase and what had to be decreased, ecspecially considering ~75% of the beta-users were using 1/2 dose of the old formula.
12-20-2009, 03:55 PM
I only used 1/2 a serving on the beta...so I am really looking forward to this! Can't wait to get some when its available.
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12-20-2009, 11:12 PM
What about the decrease in choline sources (DMAE, CDP Choline)? Also, could you explain the science behind decreasing the carnosine? It seems you've also decreased the AACA significantly.
The methylation blend seems to have also decreased in potency with cuts in TMG, Manganese, Selenium, etc. What is the reasoning behind this?
Finally, why is a former half dose now a "full dose?" I understand that its possible to get great results from half dosing, but didn't Custom, Shawn, and Dana formulate this with clinically proven doses in mind which is why the dosing was as such on the beta?
Thanks for the response. Looking forward to learning more about the final product.
12-21-2009, 01:35 AM
More info from BB.com. Just being clear that I am not bashing this product, and still think it will be best in class. I just loved the beta as is (especially w/ aniracetam and plcar added) and am curious as to the changes.
Is there any way to do a revision with more Carnosine/AACA/b12, or would that be cost-prohibitive (for just those ingredients)?
Again to be clear, I will be buying anyway.
12-21-2009, 09:59 AM
We could certainly re-evaluate adding more Carnosine or MB12, but it would be at the expense of the doubled amounts of creatine, beta alanine and glucuronolactone.
In a perfect world, we would be able to evaluate all of the formula tweaks in controlled settings to truly establish the best balance of ingredients, but obviously that is not really in the realm of possibility right now.
We'll continue to dig into the literature and keep a very close eye on user feedback to continually evaluate any needs for more tweaks that may arise.
12-21-2009, 10:18 AM
One of the primary benefits that I want in a preworkout drink is a good "pump". The "pump" greatly motivates me during my workout. Don't get me wrong I like the other benefits but a good "pump" is essential as far as I am concerned. What kind of results, as far as the "pump" is concerned, did the beta users esperience?
12-21-2009, 01:40 PM
Truthfully, Ultima was not really a pump product since it is actually pretty meaningless as far as actual muscle growth is concerned.
However, many other people echoed your thoughts and that is why we added a hefty dose of GMS to this revised formula. I've had a couple of workouts now on this new version and I can say the pumps are pretty ridiculous.
12-21-2009, 02:47 PM
12-21-2009, 05:04 PM
I'm a firm beleiver in whatever helps you get the most out of a workout. Different strokes for different folks.
12-21-2009, 05:08 PM
I think after reading Dana's further musings over on BB.com, the formula still seems good/serviceable. The one major caveat he has to this is the cutting of the carnosine content.
Even if the other ingredients are not escalated, do you think you could just up the carnosine content to 400mg per dose?
Or alternatively, will carnosine be included in the add-on product?
Do racetams still stack well w/ the new Ultima formula?
12-22-2009, 09:14 AM
Well, I think the product is far more than just "good".
If we did not have such a large dose of beta-alanine, I would certainly be in agreement about the carnosine levels. However, with the two working in conjunction, we really felt it was the best way to move forward.
Any racetams would still stack nicely.
12-22-2009, 12:29 PM
There is a complexity here that I have gone into more depth for the book for over the course of the last two days. Some things will merely have to wait for the masses. I think the consumer will probably find it more stimulating to read without all secrets revealed in these threads though.If we did not have such a large dose of beta-alanine, I would certainly be in agreement about the carnosine levels. However, with the two working in conjunction, we really felt it was the best way to move forward.
Again, my only concern would be those that harbor the condition - trimethylaminuria which I spoke of at bb.com and myself have.Any racetams would still stack nicely.
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
12-23-2009, 02:20 AM
12-23-2009, 03:39 AM
Is there a chance of having a version come out without the additional GMS and stims associated w/ the revised product?
As you probably noticed, a lot of us used this as a maintenance supplement with daily dosing in smaller quantities and I don't think we would want to take stims/GMS, etc on a daily basis for no reason.
Is there a version that could be be aimed toward the general health/preventive market?
12-23-2009, 05:56 AM
[quote=pedro321;2247093]Will the book be included with the product??[quote]
Unlikely...as people will likely buy more than one in many instances...I don't think need to have 30 of these books sitting around at multiple hundred pages...how to distribute is still a TBA.
There certainly is a lot to this tale.Im actually really looking forward to reading it to find out exactly what its doing inside of me!lol
I ran 3 tubs of the beta and all I have to say is I felt better than I ever did!
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
12-29-2009, 12:51 PM
01-07-2010, 02:42 PM
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