Ultima Updates

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  1. purebred
    purebred's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    No, just the usual on-line retailers.
    Thanks, brother! Was it just me or did I miss a price?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by phantom View Post
    I ran my last 2 jugs of Ultima with Plcar, and it was awesome. How do you think it would be if I combined it with Pre-Max, which has a hefty dose of GPLC? Should be amazing!
    Amazing but very expensive.
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  3. Well I guess after waiting this long I will have to give Utima a try. The timing will be good for me since I am currently evaluating PreMax, and RagNOrok. This will allow be to establish a basis for the evaluation of Ultima against both of these products.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    Thanks, brother! Was it just me or did I miss a price?
    Same as last time; $50.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    Same as last time; $50.
    Some have said that this latest release will be "watered down" as compaired to the beta version. Is this true?
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  6. No.

    In making the changes, we of course had to weigh all of the options.

    I mean we could have added all the ingredients and extra amounts we did and not decreased the Carnosine and the B12, which admittedly was the hardest choice, but this would then be retailing in the neighborhood of $70. Not very realistic.

    We feel the decrease in Carnosine is permissbale given the double amount of Beta-Alanine if you follow the upper-tier dosing protocol. Given this change, we do not forsee any discernable decrease in performance. I challened anyone not to have unbelievable workouts on 3200mg of beta-alanine and 400mg of Carnosine, or even half that if following the standard dose, ecspecially with everything else working in synergistic harmony.

    You'll also get double the creatine and double the amount of glucuronolactone with the upper-tier dosing.

    All in all, I personally think we struck a great balance in deciding what to increase and what had to be decreased, ecspecially considering ~75% of the beta-users were using 1/2 dose of the old formula.

  7. I only used 1/2 a serving on the beta...so I am really looking forward to this! Can't wait to get some when its available.
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  8. What about the decrease in choline sources (DMAE, CDP Choline)? Also, could you explain the science behind decreasing the carnosine? It seems you've also decreased the AACA significantly.

    The methylation blend seems to have also decreased in potency with cuts in TMG, Manganese, Selenium, etc. What is the reasoning behind this?

    Finally, why is a former half dose now a "full dose?" I understand that its possible to get great results from half dosing, but didn't Custom, Shawn, and Dana formulate this with clinically proven doses in mind which is why the dosing was as such on the beta?

    Thanks for the response. Looking forward to learning more about the final product.

  9. More info from BB.com. Just being clear that I am not bashing this product, and still think it will be best in class. I just loved the beta as is (especially w/ aniracetam and plcar added) and am curious as to the changes.

    Is there any way to do a revision with more Carnosine/AACA/b12, or would that be cost-prohibitive (for just those ingredients)?

    Again to be clear, I will be buying anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Well, that's not 100% true.

    Do I care for the lowering of MB12?

    NO

    Do I care for the addition of the "Performenhance" blend?

    NO (though I do understand marketing constraints/pressures and dictation by a subgroup that will proclaim the product didn't "workout for them" or whatever else the expectation is on a non-stim. For more, see person above who suggested they didn't care for the beta-test. This is likely a stimulant burnout effect and leaves me with mixed opinion")

    Do I care for the decrease in Carnosine?

    Not under oral circumstance I do not. If unable to saturate the carnosinase enzyme, the product will simply not offer enough substrate to matter. (Though I can say for certain that many other products on the market still do this and get away with the masses boasting their product to be the "bestest" thing they ever tried because they feel the caffeine...yawn!)


    But let's talk about some things I think make the product better...

    Decreasing the choline sources is actually a HUGE positive - especially for me, someone who harbors a condition known as trimethylaminuria. For those who have experienced the fishy odor...you understand what I mean and breathe a sigh of relief because you can now actually enjoy this product without having to suffer segregation from your peers. Also, for those who experienced fatigue with the initial product, the attenuation of these doses will actually BENEFIT you in precipitous fashion.

    The number of servings per container have increased in precipitous fashion as a result of the seemingly necessary changes and as a result will yield a more economical option for many allowing for many to experience a product that still soars above the rest in this category. As a result I could not be anything but pleased. And, if people still want to get over the comparison dosing, they merely dose DOUBLE and I have no issue with those willing to persue this dosing protocol provided you can afford it.

    I think the micronutrient profile is more favorable and offers the option to get a more well-rounded mineral experience without overdoing it for some who insist that their silly multi-vitamins still warrant a place in their supplemental regimen on this product (which I do NOT think to be the case in many regards with perhaps the exception of Vitamin D, but NO vitamin can account for the individual differences there anyway needed - more on this soon).


    So, all-in-all...I am indifferent to the changes but not completely upset and still highly supportive of the product and project despite discrepency you may superficially visualize in what you see and my campaigns of the past. I think it is still the BEST product of its class by far on the market and will continue to campaign in its favor.

    I am about to publish results of the original Trinitine study, however, have no idea what the results mean yet as I have been double-blinded to who got what and need to get in touch with Matt re: certain numbering.


    That all said, I am willing to take questions in any of the avenues available to you (here, LB, Facebook, et al...).


    D_

  10. We could certainly re-evaluate adding more Carnosine or MB12, but it would be at the expense of the doubled amounts of creatine, beta alanine and glucuronolactone.

    In a perfect world, we would be able to evaluate all of the formula tweaks in controlled settings to truly establish the best balance of ingredients, but obviously that is not really in the realm of possibility right now.

    We'll continue to dig into the literature and keep a very close eye on user feedback to continually evaluate any needs for more tweaks that may arise.

  11. One of the primary benefits that I want in a preworkout drink is a good "pump". The "pump" greatly motivates me during my workout. Don't get me wrong I like the other benefits but a good "pump" is essential as far as I am concerned. What kind of results, as far as the "pump" is concerned, did the beta users esperience?

  12. Truthfully, Ultima was not really a pump product since it is actually pretty meaningless as far as actual muscle growth is concerned.

    However, many other people echoed your thoughts and that is why we added a hefty dose of GMS to this revised formula. I've had a couple of workouts now on this new version and I can say the pumps are pretty ridiculous.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    Truthfully, Ultima was not really a pump product since it is actually pretty meaningless as far as actual muscle growth is concerned.

    However, many other people echoed your thoughts and that is why we added a hefty dose of GMS to this revised formula. I've had a couple of workouts now on this new version and I can say the pumps are pretty ridiculous.
    Many believe the "pump" to be meaningless but I was once coached by Larry Scott and he believed the "pump" to be an essential part of the growth process. I don't really know for sure but I know that it is great for motivation and it makes me work harder and longer in the gym therefore I believe it has some merit.

  14. I'm a firm beleiver in whatever helps you get the most out of a workout. Different strokes for different folks.

  15. I think after reading Dana's further musings over on BB.com, the formula still seems good/serviceable. The one major caveat he has to this is the cutting of the carnosine content.

    Even if the other ingredients are not escalated, do you think you could just up the carnosine content to 400mg per dose?

    Or alternatively, will carnosine be included in the add-on product?

    Do racetams still stack well w/ the new Ultima formula?

  16. Well, I think the product is far more than just "good".

    If we did not have such a large dose of beta-alanine, I would certainly be in agreement about the carnosine levels. However, with the two working in conjunction, we really felt it was the best way to move forward.

    Any racetams would still stack nicely.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    Well, I think the product is far more than just "good".
    Me too. I have a feeling people misunderstood what I initially wrote over at bb.com. I have been doing mega-work on finalizing the data to be processed and so on from the Trinitine study (hence, I will need the randomization numbers "uncovered" - will need to touch base with you in the coming week or so). Also, the data got too big for its own worth and the Ultima story (write-up) went into book format, which is kind of a neat tale of complete construction of the product from Shawn and My original meetings a few years back to the painful production and set-backs to the beta-run to the pharmacovigilance offerings to the final version. Most will have never seen such a complete piece on a product before and they can truthfully purchase with confidence.


    If we did not have such a large dose of beta-alanine, I would certainly be in agreement about the carnosine levels. However, with the two working in conjunction, we really felt it was the best way to move forward.
    There is a complexity here that I have gone into more depth for the book for over the course of the last two days. Some things will merely have to wait for the masses. I think the consumer will probably find it more stimulating to read without all secrets revealed in these threads though.


    Any racetams would still stack nicely.
    Again, my only concern would be those that harbor the condition - trimethylaminuria which I spoke of at bb.com and myself have.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  18. Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    There is a complexity here that I have gone into more depth for the book for over the course of the last two days. Some things will merely have to wait for the masses. I think the consumer will probably find it more stimulating to read without all secrets revealed in these threads though.
    Will the book be included with the product??

    Im actually really looking forward to reading it to find out exactly what its doing inside of me!lol

    I ran 3 tubs of the beta and all I have to say is I felt better than I ever did!

  19. Is there a chance of having a version come out without the additional GMS and stims associated w/ the revised product?

    As you probably noticed, a lot of us used this as a maintenance supplement with daily dosing in smaller quantities and I don't think we would want to take stims/GMS, etc on a daily basis for no reason.

    Is there a version that could be be aimed toward the general health/preventive market?

    Thanks guys!

  20. [quote=pedro321;2247093]Will the book be included with the product??[quote]

    Unlikely...as people will likely buy more than one in many instances...I don't think need to have 30 of these books sitting around at multiple hundred pages...how to distribute is still a TBA.


    Im actually really looking forward to reading it to find out exactly what its doing inside of me!lol

    I ran 3 tubs of the beta and all I have to say is I felt better than I ever did!
    There certainly is a lot to this tale.


    D_
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Urban Monk View Post
    Is there a chance of having a version come out without the additional GMS and stims associated w/ the revised product?

    As you probably noticed, a lot of us used this as a maintenance supplement with daily dosing in smaller quantities and I don't think we would want to take stims/GMS, etc on a daily basis for no reason.

    Is there a version that could be be aimed toward the general health/preventive market?

    Thanks guys!
    We spoke about something like this briefly for a clinical setting approach, but unless something big happens, we dont have the resources to do two different versions of this sku.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    I'm a firm beleiver in whatever helps you get the most out of a workout. Different strokes for different folks.
    Truer words have never been spoken.
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