What is Dave about to do?? Test/Tren and BPS PCT?

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    What is Dave about to do?? Test/Tren and BPS PCT?


    Whats up fellow muscle juicers! I have been thinking and reading... I have been doing some more reading then more thinking. I read this

    Androgens

    It got me thinking about trying a 3-4 week "blast" cycle. Here are more of my thoughts and ideas. I am in the brainstorming stage right now and im spitballing. I finished a cycle a couple months ago and ended PCT 5 weeks ago. I had bloods done and they came back good after PCT and I was barely off from my baseline before the cycle. I am going back next week to have them done again to check and make sure I am maintaining those levels.

    I only have a 4 week period I can cycle before I am out of state (January) and leave the country for 7 months (March/April). All of that means I will not be able to do any cycle until next fall as far as exogeneous hormones go. That is close to 9 months of natty stacks and regular supps while my body adjusts and gets in good homeostasis.

    Here is what I am thinking after reading that article-

    Wk 1-4 Test P 100mg EOD
    Wk 1-3 Tren A 42mg ED

    Support on cycle-
    wk 2-8 Formasurge 6 pumps ED
    wk 1-4 Anebeta maybe longer
    wk 1-6 caber .5mg 2x a week
    of course I have Adex and Letro and Exemestane onhand incase I need them.

    PCT (starting 2 days after last Test P injection)-
    Wk 5-8 Nolva 40/20/20
    Wk-5-8 Still using Formasurge
    Wk-5-9 Endosurge
    All of this can be extended depending on how bloodwork is. I am open to any more suggestions.

    I have most of this now so I will have to get very little. I will get bloodwork next week and before PCT and at week 10. I have thought about the risks of doing this so close to ending a cycle and I believe such a short cycle plus the fact my bloodwork shows I am back to normal I will be fine.

    I would like some feedback from some of the other guys about how it sounds. So lets start the discussion............
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

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    How did you come up with Tren A 42mg ED? 42 just seems like an odd number... Not sure what your goal is, but I truly understand the need for a good kick to send you off. The prop makes total sense, but for 4 weeks, I may have selected suspension. On the Tren, 50mgs a day would be easier to measure, and sounds good. Why not toss in some anadrol? Unless you're in the military and worry about being tested, I'd blast those 4 weeks like it'd be my last for 7 months at sea!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    How did you come up with Tren A 42mg ED? 42 just seems like an odd number... Not sure what your goal is, but I truly understand the need for a good kick to send you off. The prop makes total sense, but for 4 weeks, I may have selected suspension. On the Tren, 50mgs a day would be easier to measure, and sounds good. Why not toss in some anadrol? Unless you're in the military and worry about being tested, I'd blast those 4 weeks like it'd be my last for 7 months at sea!
    Thanks for reading Detroit. I guess the goal is to see how it treats me. If I can put on good size and its maintained well with relative low sides then this could be an approach I use in 9 months. Short cycles, fast recovery and in the end more cycles per year.

    I like the idea of anadrol. It is one of my favorites and it seemed much better for me than dbol as far as orals go... here is an option. TNE Blend that my guy has is 70mg Test NE with 30mg Anadrol. I could blast that on workout days. Also would it be possible to do that and not even run prop? I dont want to erase Test from the cycle exactly.

    For doseage I divided 300 by 7 days and rounded. But 50 is fine and easy to measure. 8mg should not even be very noticeable.

    edit* not worried about being tested
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    I made it! This should be fun!
    Good to have you! I'm still in brainstorming mode. Tuesday I get bloods done regardless so if they are good I would start Saturday the 1st
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    Very interesting read, im in for this. The part that i found most fascinating is the "no estrogen" bit where he talks about femara/sin all the way through Pct

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang0341
    Very interesting read, im in for this. The part that i found most fascinating is the "no estrogen" bit where he talks about femara/sin all the way through Pct

    Sent from my iPhone using Am.com
    I was also interested. Tonight I am going to research and see if I can find actual evidence that would contradict his logic or support it. That article was written years ago from what I know so there might be studies by now
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    I was also interested. Tonight I am going to research and see if I can find actual evidence that would contradict his logic or support it. That article was written years ago from what I know so there might be studies by now
    Fascinating article. I am a firm believer in Aromasin and have always advocated using it during and post cycle. It has not affected my IGF-1 at all. But, I use test, where his subjects didn't. According to Big Cat, you need as much estrogen as your body can handle, in proportion to the elevated test levels. Not sure I agree, but he's European as well and has an opposite view on estrogen. The problem I see with the heavy use of Androgens is the possibility of E2 (if not aggressively controlled) and elevated DHT. First reaction was prostrate problems big time. But, if you believe, as many do, that it's E2 that has the strong affinity to bind tot he prostrate and not DHT, then controlling E2 by way of Aromasin should work. I am currently working on that theory with my doctor. He believes it's DHT that causes an enlarged prostrate (something I have to watch). I now believe that it's E2 and will see next month if I'm right. Problem is the cost of Aromasin is outrageous.

    I'm hesitant to drop test, but believe he's on to something. Many believe that you need to run test higher than Tren, but I don't and he obviously doesn't. With Tren having the greatest affinity to bind to the AR (5 times that of test if memory servers me right) then test is going to get bumped back no matter what. You're not going to out number the receptors and win with test. It doesn't work that way, so I see merit in a lot of what he is saying.

    I'll be interested to see what you discover Dave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Fascinating article. I am a firm believer in Aromasin and have always advocated using it during and post cycle. It has not affected my IGF-1 at all. But, I use test, where his subjects didn't. According to Big Cat, you need as much estrogen as your body can handle, in proportion to the elevated test levels. Not sure I agree, but he's European as well and has an opposite view on estrogen. The problem I see with the heavy use of Androgens is the possibility of E2 (if not aggressively controlled) and elevated DHT. First reaction was prostrate problems big time. But, if you believe, as many do, that it's E2 that has the strong affinity to bind tot he prostrate and not DHT, then controlling E2 by way of Aromasin should work. I am currently working on that theory with my doctor. He believes it's DHT that causes an enlarged prostrate (something I have to watch). I now believe that it's E2 and will see next month if I'm right. Problem is the cost of Aromasin is outrageous.

    I'm hesitant to drop test, but believe he's on to something. Many believe that you need to run test higher than Tren, but I don't and he obviously doesn't. With Tren having the greatest affinity to bind to the AR (5 times that of test if memory servers me right) then test is going to get bumped back no matter what. You're not going to out number the receptors and win with test. It doesn't work that way, so I see merit in a lot of what he is saying.

    I'll be interested to see what you discover Dave.
    Thanks and that is interesting you bring up the E2 and DHT in relation to prostate point. I am interested to see how it turns out for you. I am a firm believer that estrogen should be kept to a minimum and that you should try to keep a "natural" level in relation to elevated test during cycle.

    I would be VERY hesitant to drop test BUT reducing it to levels below Tren seem manageable and on paper sound good. My rational thought is- Tren shuts down natural test production very fast, combine that with running it at 300mg EW+ for 6+ weeks and you are eventually going to get some sides. But if you are running 350mg EW and assuming your natural test will be shut down or dramatically supressed by day 6-8, a low dose of test (lower than TREN) could prevent side effects from being shutdown from natural production. This duration of lower dosed test might not get kicked back as fast from the AR from Tren's affinity to bind being so much higher (you are right with 5 times Detroit). Let me clarify so that everyone understands that I am speculating here and this is NOT fact, but merely speculation and brainstorming. I will do some research and see what I can find, but I might just be better off trying and getting blood work done and seeing firsthand.

    Question for you Detroit- What about what I said a few posts ago regarding the TNE? Could this be an alternative? Possibly running low Test P and pulsing TNE at 1cc 30min Pre workout? what type of effect do you think it would have? I am going to do some reading but I would like to hear your thoughts.
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    I remember reading that thread. It's definitely interesting and I would be interested to see the results of a blast type cycle. If you do decide to do it make sure you log it so we can see the theory put to the test!
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    Here is something that is interesting regarding impacts of physiological levels of estrogen in men

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/84/10/3411.full

    Here is the exerpt that is most interesting and above is the whole article with the references-

    Endogenous estrogens, lipoproteins, and glucose metabolism. There is now compelling evidence that endogenous production of estrogens in men plays an important role in cardiovascular health and disease. Physiological levels of estrogen have been reported to play a role in influencing plasma lipoprotein concentrations in men. When selective estrogen deficiency was induced in young men by administration of combined drug therapy with a GnRH antagonist (to suppress endogenous steroid hormones), testosterone (to restore testosterone levels to baseline), and testolactone (an aromatase inhibitor that prevents conversion of testosterone to estrogens), plasma high density lipoprotein (HDL) and apolipoprotein A-1 decreased, while plasma low density lipoprotein (LDL) and triglyceride levels did not change (7). Shono et al. (8) investigated the relationships of plasma sex hormones to lipid and glucose metabolism in a cross-sectional study on 212 apparently healthy men ranging in age from 18 to 59 yr. They showed that the estradiol level was negatively related to both LDL cholesterol and fasting blood glucose, suggesting that the levels of estradiol within the physiological range for healthy men may help maintain a desirable profile of lipid and glucose metabolism.

    Here is the best article I have read on estrogen, aromatase, and Aromatase Inhibitors in males. It is actual no sh*t studies. And it even talks about gyno reversal using anastrozole and torem (unsuccessful but interesting none the less). Check it out. It is broken up in different parts and I only read the paragraphs that looked interesting lol.

    http://www.rbej.com/content/9/1/93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    I remember reading that thread. It's definitely interesting and I would be interested to see the results of a blast type cycle. If you do decide to do it make sure you log it so we can see the theory put to the test!
    You better believe it brother. The more I read the more likely I am going to do it. I am gunna log da shizz outta it
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    The less esters the better. The TNE/Anadrol blend sounds like a blast. You could load up M-W-F on TNE/Anadrol as well as prop. The prop will hold you over T-T-S. If you can handle the pins (only 4 weeks) I'd love to see your results pinning that dose every day, 28-30 days straight. I'd use Aromasin, HCG and keep an eye on your vitals. The great thing about this blend is that the Anadrol doesn't compete with the AR, leaving it all to the test. You'd have good anabolics and great androgenic responses. Plus, it's simple. Personally, I love it. Now, if you were to add Tren A EOD, maybe 100mgs per injection, wow, the Anadrol/Tren response should be insane.
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    Good read I'm certainly a firm believer in keeping tren and test equal or tren a tad higher then test dosage I hear it helps with sides much better...awesome man I'm sooo ****ing in no matter what cycle you so choose brother
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer
    The less esters the better. The TNE/Anadrol blend sounds like a blast. You could load up M-W-F on TNE/Anadrol as well as prop. The prop will hold you over T-T-S. If you can handle the pins (only 4 weeks) I'd love to see your results pinning that dose every day, 28-30 days straight. I'd use Aromasin, HCG and keep an eye on your vitals. The great thing about this blend is that the Anadrol doesn't compete with the AR, leaving it all to the test. You'd have good anabolics and great androgenic responses. Plus, it's simple. Personally, I love it. Now, if you were to add Tren A EOD, maybe 100mgs per injection, wow, the Anadrol/Tren response should be insane.
    Man Detroit the more I read over that the sweeter it sounds. TNE blend/Prop and Tren... I'm gunna plan on doing it depending on bloods. I like the idea of less esters. How would you run prop? 100mg still?
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    Ok so here is how my cycle is looking now-


    Wk 1-4 Test P 100mg EOD M-W-F
    Wk 1-3 TNE Smash 130mg EOD M-W-F 30 Min before lifting (this is a blend 75mg TNE, 25mg Dbol, 30mg Anadrol)
    Wk 1-4 TNE 100mg T-T-S 30 minutes before lifting.
    Wk-1-3 TREN A 100mg EOD T-T-S

    HCG 125iu 2x a week for entire time. Will stop 6 days before PCT.


    Support on cycle-
    wk 2-8 Formasurge 6 pumps ED
    wk 1-4 Anebeta maybe longer
    wk 1-6 caber .5mg 2x a week
    of course I have Adex and Letro and Exemestane onhand incase I need them.

    PCT (starting 2 days after last Test P injection)-
    Wk 5-8 Nolva 40/20/20
    Wk 5-8 Clomid 100/100/50
    Wk-5-8 Still using Formasurge
    Wk-5-9 Endosurge

    Getting bloods on tuesday to see if I am up for a cycle. Its alot of pinning but I could care less. I have a ton of 25g 1" and 1 1/2" needles and I will pin myself all over. My guys gear has almost no PIP anyways. I am excited to see what type of gains this style of cycling yields. IF this is how the europeans did it back in the day I am sure it will bring great results. They were smaller than most american bodybuilders but they were dense, hard and ripped. Only trying it will let me find out....
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    F in sick bro!

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    That's a beast cycle bro! Your going to love those gains so much I have a feeling you will want to stay on.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang0341
    F in sick bro!

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    Yeah it should be retarded! I'm pumped because I love dbol, anadrol and TNE so a combination should be crazy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88
    That's a beast cycle bro! Your going to love those gains so much I have a feeling you will want to stay on.
    I never want to come off lol. This time I have no choice. I will be home with family on the holidays so I will have to stop before traveling. I am wandering what type of gains to expect? I would like a 5lb lbm increase and maybe drop 1-2% BF.

    If I got those kind of results especially the 5 pounds I will provably keep running cycles like this.
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    Looks awesome broski!!! Hell yeah stay on forever my gym is open 24/7 now so 2 a days will be easy sauce now
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107
    Looks awesome broski!!! Hell yeah stay on forever my gym is open 24/7 now so 2 a days will be easy sauce now
    I wish dude! Eventually I will in the next few years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    I never want to come off lol. This time I have no choice. I will be home with family on the holidays so I will have to stop before traveling. I am wandering what type of gains to expect? I would like a 5lb lbm increase and maybe drop 1-2% BF.

    If I got those kind of results especially the 5 pounds I will provably keep running cycles like this.
    I would front load, since these are short esters and a short cycle front loading will bring you to max blood levels quicker. Maybe doubling up the first 3 days?
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88

    I would front load, since these are short esters and a short cycle front loading will bring you to max blood levels quicker. Maybe doubling up the first 3 days?
    Very smart man. I have enough so I probably will do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    Very smart man. I have enough so I probably will do that.
    I'm very interested to see this cycle, are you going to log it? If you do then link me up when it goes down.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88

    I'm very interested to see this cycle, are you going to log it? If you do then link me up when it goes down.
    Will do and I am logging the Sh*t outta it. Should start on the 3rd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    Will do. Should start on the 3rd.
    D@mn that's exciting! I'm very jealous lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88

    D@mn that's exciting! I'm very jealous lol
    Me too lol. I have so much gear stockpiled right now. I only had to get the TNE Smash and wait for my BPS stuff to arrive
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    Me too lol. I have so much gear stockpiled right now. I only had to get the TNE Smash and wait for my BPS stuff to arrive
    That TNE smash seems f**king awesome dude.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88

    That TNE smash seems f**king awesome dude.
    I know man. It sounded so badazz I had to try it. I am really hoping these gains are good and maintainable. If so I could run 5-7 cycles like this every year compared to 2-3 big ones.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    I know man. It sounded so badazz I had to try it. I am really hoping these gains are good and maintainable. If so I could run 5-7 cycles like this every year compared to 2-3 big ones.
    Man, just cruise forever. TRT is the only way to go. I have one big cycle per year, 365 days straight!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer

    Man, just cruise forever. TRT is the only way to go. I have one big cycle per year, 365 days straight!
    Hahaha I wish man. Here in a year or 2 I will be able too. I'm still young... ish so I got time. What do you think of how I switched up the cycle a few posts back? I would be curious to hear your thoughts.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    a dd log with detroit hammer throwing around his knowledge. ah hell yeah. im definitely in on this one. might learn a thing or 900000000...
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668
    a dd log with detroit hammer throwing around his knowledge. ah hell yeah. im definitely in on this one. might learn a thing or 900000000...
    Lol good to have you man. This is just the brainstorm thread. I will start a new thread in a couple days and get my blood tests up. It will be... legen .... wait for it. .... DARY!
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer

    Man, just cruise forever. TRT is the only way to go. I have one big cycle per year, 365 days straight!
    My idol
    Email me for free prodigy samples
    Ricky@pni-online.com
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    If anyone has any input or ideas throw them out there. This is a perfect way for me to try some stuff out and experiment. I will get bloods done in the last week then right after pct.

    I am really looking forward to trying out all of BPS products for this cycle. I am using BPS stuff for liver/blood pressure, free test, natty test production, and AI. Should be interesting
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107

    My idol
    Haha right?
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    When I said front load I would stick to front loading just the test p and tren a. The other esters I wouldn't front load just run as planned. They kick in quick enough so just get your base hormones front loaded.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88
    When I said front load I would stick to front loading just the test p and tren a. The other esters I wouldn't front load just run as planned. They kick in quick enough so just get your base hormones front loaded.
    Yeah I gotcha bro. I am definitely going that route.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    U better log the **** out of this cause I'm very interested in how it runs for ya. Sitting on 30ml of prop and 30ml of tren ace as we speak. So u start on the 3rd? This is what I'm thinking of doing!

    1-4 prop 25 mg ed
    1-2 tren 50 mg ed
    2-4 tren 75-100 mg ed

    Low test high tren plus prob an oral in there somewhere maybe sd since I have a bunch!
  

  
 

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