- 04-27-2012, 10:44 PM
Still one of my favorite threads in all the years I've been here.
Short cycles, some thoughts
- 04-27-2012, 11:56 PM
04-28-2012, 12:18 AM
08-24-2012, 12:54 PM
08-24-2012, 01:44 PM
Interesting read! So the typical beginner cycle "test only" is dumb? I should be using NPP, Tren and Win/Var for my AAS debut? (sounds crazy)
08-24-2012, 02:06 PM
Read it again.
Early on, my trainer lamented the situation he found in the US: heavy dependance upon test, long halflife esters used in long cycles, gross overeating, poor estrogen suppression, acceptance of high bodyfat percentages, and excessive lbm development in short timespans. He was horrified at what he envisioned would be the longterm consequences of widespread use of these practices. He was associated with IFBB pros, like Zhur, el Sonbaty, Schlierkamp, and Ruhl, while in Europe. He was well aware of the health complications associated with extreme muscularity. He kept reiterating "BBing is a sport for life".
While still a natural, I began to examine how an entire philosphy of AAS use might be developed, based upon the European experience. By the time it was appropriate for me to begin AAS, years later, I already had a plan. Initially, I quietly used myself as a lab rat. The results became quite visible, and, before too long, questions followed. My trainer asked that we work together, to develop a new way for his athletes to grow. And here we are.....
08-25-2012, 02:50 AM
08-25-2012, 10:49 AM
Has anyone tried this style of 2 week cycle?
Lift heavy and eat lots of dead animals! Yes, that's me in my avatar.
08-25-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm gunna try this approach next cycle. Its a very good concept and makes complete sense.
The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
08-25-2012, 07:52 PM
08-26-2012, 12:51 AM
Good info Dunn.
Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons
08-26-2012, 02:38 AM
I've heard of the old timers doing cycles this way and it working very well its just not a very globally used style of cycling
08-28-2012, 07:55 PM
While I found this to be an incredibly interesting article when I read it a couple of years ago, I cannot agree with several of key elements here.
After reading this article for the first time I really wanted to believe that it worked and it seemed to make sense from a longevity point of view.
Unfortunately in my opinion it is a flawed theory.
The first thing that stick out to me is cyce lengths. At 2 weeks you just arent giving yourself enough time to do anything.
Tren ace for example in my experience (and i have used it multiple times) will build up enough and start giving you strength gains around day 10, usually unless you are running a pretty high dose you will not see the visual recomping effect of the drug until later (maybe late in the 3rd week).
Same thing goes for other substances like NPP which is an even longer ester.
Lets say we used all esterless hormones, for 2 weeks. The human body just does not have the ability to build muscle muscle that fast. If you really think you will put on 5lbs of lean body mass in 2 weeks or 3 total and and keep it post cycle you either superman or just a bit dilusional.
I wont even touch the spot injection subject... lol
No PCT? Your HPTA will be shutdown regardless of the cycle only being 2 weeks long. The only difference is the speed at which you will recover.
If you dont aid your HPTA by doing a pct then it makes it even more unbelievable that these %lbs of lean mass will be kept.
These are just a couple of the flaws i see in this theory.
I do agree with the importance of a clean diet. This will play a major role in avoiding water weight, fat, and later health issues.
I agree with him that test is not an absolute must for every cycle.
Shizer.... got to get ready for work. Ill add to this later.
09-12-2012, 05:45 AM
09-15-2012, 12:15 AM
Very interesting. I will consider a future cycle with short esters combined with Letrozole and Anavar right from the start. I think a future cycle of mine will look like this:
Test P, Anavar, Letrozole for 8-10 weeks. My only concern would be running Letrozole for so long. The original thread also mentioned running Letrozole into PCT.
As this will only be my 2nd or 3rd cycle, I think I'll still give Tren a miss for a while.
Last edited by leftside1; 09-15-2012 at 12:26 AM. Reason: more deets
09-17-2012, 06:55 AM
I will try this in two weeks..
Will do test no ester.. Tren no ester.. Nandro no ester..and a very fast acting oral with a short half life.. Perhaps superdrol.. Unless someone has another suggestion for an oral.. and letro
Will take a two week break and try
Test no ester, bold no ester, primo ace, and another androgenic oral I have yet to decide on.. Maybe anadrol
Week 1: (TestNE, TrenNE, NNe, superdrol, letro)
Week2: (TestNE, TrenNE, NNe, superdrol, letro)
Week3: hcg, clomid, torem, aromasin)
Week4: hcg, clomid, torem, aromasin)
Week 5: (primo ace 3 days prior, TNE, BNE, anadrol, possibly low dose tren no ester, letro)
Week6: ( primo ace 3 days prior, TNE, BNE, anadrol, possibly low dose tren no ester, letro)
Interested to see how gains r in only 6 weeks.. May end up swapping bold no ester with a tren no ester in thr second part.. As I haven't tried BNE yet but the pain is supposedly unbearable.. I know this seems like a lot of gear but I am not a beginner and wouldn't recommend this to anyone that is not advanced...
Doses will be around 100mg daily of each compound..
09-17-2012, 08:56 AM
09-17-2012, 09:12 AM
09-18-2012, 04:20 AM
"We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing."
Can someone explain to me what he means when he says cycle day zero? Also, if you are "front loading" 3 days prior to cycling, is this just a mini kickstart so that the Tren and the orals all take effect at the same time?
09-18-2012, 11:28 AM
09-19-2012, 08:48 PM
anybody wanna post up some examples of these short burst cycles?
my understanding is that an androgen phase overlaps into an estrogen suppresion phase than possibly hgh/slin than back to androgens..?
1-4 test p /tren ace
7,8,9,10 insulin and or HGH
10-14 test p/winstrol
a constant overlap of compounds. sounds very interesting to me, but i need some examples. maybe some experienced members can chime in on what theyve used.
09-20-2012, 11:26 AM
09-20-2012, 02:02 PM
09-21-2012, 09:37 PM
09-22-2012, 10:42 PM
thoughts on this cycle:
Tri Tren dosed at 150mg/1ml. 225mg dosed EOD for 14days. 50prop/50hex/50enan
Winstrol Depo 100mg EOD days 1-14, 150mg eod for day 15-28
Test Prop 100mg EOD
09-25-2012, 01:17 AM
09-25-2012, 11:37 AM
09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
This thread is interesting, but the statement that european bodybuilders use this kind of cycle is somewhat false.
I'm from europe, holland, all the guys I know (and compete) cycle for long periods with test, plus a whole lot of other steroids.
OLYMPUS UK REP
09-25-2012, 05:52 PM
09-26-2012, 03:26 AM
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