Newbie, first cycle recommendations

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Yeah man no problem. Just remember arimidex and nolva don't mix. Wouldn't want you to try running them at the same time and waste your money. Other than that there are kits of options and what people use just depends on whats available to them. Good luck
    just to be clear, can you use arimedix during the cycle, and nolva after for pct? or would that not work..


  2. Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodHam
    just to be clear, can you use arimedix during the cycle, and nolva after for pct? or would that not work..
    Yes that would work. You might want to run armidex through until the end of your pct tho. To avoid estrogen rebound.
    •   
       


  3. If you want to run a AI through pct you can't use arimidex. Nolva and it fight the same receptors and nolva makes the arimidex un-potent. Run it up to pct, use Nolva through pct and just taper it off.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  4. thanks dave, i appreciate the excellent info, luckily i was able to get a hold of clomid to make things a bit easier ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    If you want to run a AI through pct you can't use arimidex. Nolva and it fight the same receptors and nolva makes the arimidex un-potent. Run it up to pct, use Nolva through pct and just taper it off.

  5. Cool man. Arimidex and clomid together have been a great combo for me during pct. I bounce back pretty quick.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  6. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    Cool man. Arimidex and clomid together have been a great combo for me during pct. I bounce back pretty quick.
    I don't know if this is a dumb question but here it goes...adexx acts on the aromatase enzyme and nolva is a serm acting else where. How could these 2 substances possibly compete for receptors when they act on 2 different mechanisms? My computer has been down and I've been accessing this site thru my phone so at the moment I can't do any research on it.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.

  7. No I have the study on it though man. I know you can't mix them and there is a good reason. But I'm not going to say a bunch now. I'm on my phone but later I will get my computer and post it up so you can see. Its not that adex won't work with nolva.... nolva just makes it less effective. Brand name Arimidex even says on the warning to not use it with nolva. I will post the stuff for you tho bro.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  8. Ok here is is brother...

    Aromasin with Nolvadex

    I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness. This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

    Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone andrenders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

    Difference Between Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitors

    To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type-I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen:

    1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or
    2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect.

    The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does notalter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

    Conclusion

    Before we close the book on Aromasin, it’s worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for PCT, you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an AI, since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it’s certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won’t experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).

    Finally, as we’re going to be using Nolvadex for PCT anyway, and we ought to be using an AI with it for maximum recovery…I think Aromasin- considering it’s compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our cycles.

    Thats all from http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Ar...dex%20PCT.html and the sources are on the bottom of that page incase you want to dig farther for any research.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  9. there was another article i read. I will try and find it tonight.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    Ok here is is brother...

    Aromasin with Nolvadex

    I've always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it's be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don't we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we're throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness. This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

    Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)...SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone andrenders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

    Difference Between Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitors

    To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we'll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs...both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI's. In the case of a type-I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI's, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen:

    1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or
    2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect.

    The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don't need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does notalter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

    Conclusion

    Before we close the book on Aromasin, it's worth noting that you can (and should) still use one of the non-steroidal AIs during your cycle to reduce estrogen, if necessary. When you are ready for PCT, you can then switch over to Aromasin and still experience the full effects of an AI, since there is no cross-over tolerance experienced between steroidal and non-steroidal AIs (9). Since Aromasin is about 65% efficient at suppressing estrogen (10), it's certainly a very powerful agent, especially considering you won't experience reduced effectiveness because of your concurrent use of Nolvadex or from any sort of tolerance developed by using other AIs on your cycle(9). There is also a decent amount of preclinical data suggesting that Aromasin has a beneficial effect on bone mineral metabolism that is not seen with non-steroidal agents, and it may also have beneficial effects on lipid metabolism that are not found in the non-steroidal Letro and A-dex (9).

    Finally, as we're going to be using Nolvadex for PCT anyway, and we ought to be using an AI with it for maximum recovery...I think Aromasin- considering it's compatibility with Nolvadex and beneficial effects on bone mineral content and lipid profile, has finally stopped being the black sheep of AIs and found a home in our cycles.

    Thats all from http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Ar...dex%20PCT.html and the sources are on the bottom of that page incase you want to dig farther for any research.
    Awesome dude! Thank you this article is sick and definitely clarifies any misconception.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    there was another article i read. I will try and find it tonight.
    Is erase sufficient enough for a PCT AI after a standard test e run?
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.

  12. It can be. But my philosophy is... erase is just as easy to get as anastrozole or aromasin and even letro. I would run any of those 3 before erase. Prescription grade is always better. Money is nothing when it comes to the quality I put in my body. I learned the hard way lol
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  13. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    It can be. But my philosophy is... erase is just as easy to get as anastrozole or aromasin and even letro. I would run any of those 3 before erase. Prescription grade is always better. Money is nothing when it comes to the quality I put in my body. I learned the hard way lol
    I feel the same way. Only wuality belongs in our bodies. I was just wondering for my own personal knowledge.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.

  14. *quality

  15. I don't know if there has been enough studies on erase. There are plenty on letro, adex, estane so we know how much estrogen they block or destroy. I haven't seen anything on Erase... now dont get me wrong its a great product and I have a bottle for an emergency. I just haven't SEEN the study... there could be some out there
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  16. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    I don't know if there has been enough studies on erase. There are plenty on letro, adex, estane so we know how much estrogen they block or destroy. I haven't seen anything on Erase... now dont get me wrong its a great product and I have a bottle for an emergency. I just haven't SEEN the study... there could be some out there
    I was interested because, now if am wrong please tell me, what the main purpose of the AI during PCT is to combat e2 rebound from the SERM. PH cycles involve a SERM during PCT and erase suffices. I figured by the time you are using erase (during PCT) you'd be fine.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.

  17. You can rebound off of an AI. Except Aromasin (exemestane) because it is a suicide aromatase inhibitor.

    AIs can help with rebound from a SERM but an AI has other important affects as well. It can boost your LH and FSH production... some can even help boost IGF-1. All of those are very important during pct and recovery.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
  

  
 

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