First real gear

[AHammer]

5'10 193 about 10% bf done one cycle mdrol 1 hdrol

1-10 500mg test e
1-4 25mg dbol
9-12 20mg mdrol

adex on hand
nolva 40/40/20/20 pct 2 weeks after last pin
liver support 2x a day while on orals
accutane on hand incase i breakout slightly, 20mg a day if needed(have used before during superdrol kept good liver values)
Fish oil / multi ed

my diet will be eat every two hours 600-700 cal a meal 30g of protein and about 20g carb every meal and cottage cheese before bed and whey post workout (this works well for me)


am i missing anything vital? thanks for the input, i expect some quality gains

 

[ambulldog]

5'10 193 about 10% bf done one cycle mdrol 1 hdrol

1-10 500mg test e
1-4 25mg dbol
9-12 20mg mdrol

adex on hand
nolva 40/40/20/20 pct 2 weeks after last pin
liver support 2x a day while on orals
accutane on hand incase i breakout slightly, 20mg a day if needed(have used before during superdrol kept good liver values)
Fish oil / multi ed

my diet will be eat every two hours 600-700 cal a meal 30g of protein and about 20g carb every meal and cottage cheese before bed and whey post workout (this works well for me)


am i missing anything vital? thanks for the input, i expect some quality gains

1) raise the dbol 50mg
2) why are you closing out with mdrol? just curious as id think youd want something to dry you out a bit

 

[AHammer]

1) raise the dbol 50mg
2) why are you closing out with mdrol? just curious as id think youd want something to dry you out a bit

1) alright sounds good, never used dbol so wanted to be safe but ill try it out at 50 (i have 25mg pills)
2) i have mdrol on hand and i feel like it does produce some nice dry gains as opposed to dbol(from what ive read), i feel like winny would work better but i dont have it atm

 

[ambulldog]

1) alright sounds good, never used dbol so wanted to be safe but ill try it out at 50 (i have 25mg pills)
2) i have mdrol on hand and i feel like it does produce some nice dry gains as opposed to dbol(from what ive read), i feel like winny would work better but i dont have it atm

also i think youd be nuts to use accutane at anytime during this cycle. you are using 2 compounds that are pretty harsh on the liver

 

[jt339]

I say no go on the dbol first cycle. You don't know how you're going to react to the test so you may get gyno from that pretty quickly. If you're running the dbol with it, how will you know if it's from the dbol or test? If you plan on doing cycles in the future this is pretty important. I can run dbol up to 75mg ed without and AI and be fine, whereas some people can't even run 30mg without gyno. Same thing goes with test.

If you're dead set on running the dbol I would change it with the mdrol since you already know how you react to mdrol. Then when you start the dbol, you will already know how the test affected you. With this route, it's pretty smart to run some aromasin into pct to drive estrogen back down.

 

[fueledpassion]

1) raise the dbol 50mg
2) why are you closing out with mdrol? just curious as id think youd want something to dry you out a bit

SD will dry you out, bud. I'm closing out a Test/EQ/Mast cycle as we speak with it. Glycogen uptake is the only watery experience you should have with SD. Speaking of which, I woke up this morning heavier than ever and abs poppin out all over the place lol.

Remember, diet clean = SD clean. Diet dirty = SD dirty.

 

[fueledpassion]

I say no go on the dbol first cycle. You don't know how you're going to react to the test so you may get gyno from that pretty quickly. If you're running the dbol with it, how will you know if it's from the dbol or test? If you plan on doing cycles in the future this is pretty important. I can run dbol up to 75mg ed without and AI and be fine, whereas some people can't even run 30mg without gyno. Same thing goes with test.

If you're dead set on running the dbol I would change it with the mdrol since you already know how you react to mdrol. Then when you start the dbol, you will already know how the test affected you. With this route, it's pretty smart to run some aromasin into pct to drive estrogen back down.

I agree with kickstarting with MDrol on the front end. But I also agree that 25mg of Dbol is a good starting point for a Dbol kick start should you choose to do that. While I haven't personally used Dbol yet I know lots of guys that very successfully do their first run with Dbol + Test and nothing else. Of course, I'd recommend an AI like Adex, Aromasin, Forma-stanzol (Formestane) or maybe that Erase. Either way, have some type of semi-potent AI on hand ready to go.

Have fun. Should be the easiest 15lbs you have ever seen lol.

 

[Matthersby]

I agree with kickstarting with MDrol on the front end. But I also agree that 25mg of Dbol is a good starting point for a Dbol kick start should you choose to do that. While I haven't personally used Dbol yet I know lots of guys that very successfully do their first run with Dbol + Test and nothing else. Of course, I'd recommend an AI like Adex, Aromasin, Forma-stanzol (Formestane) or maybe that Erase. Either way, have some type of semi-potent AI on hand ready to go.

Have fun. Should be the easiest 15lbs you have ever seen lol.

Totally apologize for the hijack, but it is topic-related slightly. What about a low dose of both? I realize stacking methyls is never advised, but if one was planning on running 30 or 40 of one or the other, could one run 25 dbol+25 SD? Do different methyls cause liver enzyme elevation by different mechanisms? I've been kicking around some strange ideas lately regarding different compounds and thought this could be a good mix with a test base. (reason being next cycle is only 8 weeks, leaving not enough time for kicker AND finisher.)

 

[jt339]

Totally apologize for the hijack, but it is topic-related slightly. What about a low dose of both? I realize stacking methyls is never advised, but if one was planning on running 30 or 40 of one or the other, could one run 25 dbol+25 SD? Do different methyls cause liver enzyme elevation by different mechanisms? I've been kicking around some strange ideas lately regarding different compounds and thought this could be a good mix with a test base. (reason being next cycle is only 8 weeks, leaving not enough time for kicker AND finisher.)

10mg of superdrol for four weeks is enough by itself to thrash your liver values. I would never stack anything with superdrol. Things less liver toxic like dbol and anadrol together would work, but that would be a pretty advanced cycle.

 

[ambulldog]

SD will dry you out, bud. I'm closing out a Test/EQ/Mast cycle as we speak with it. Glycogen uptake is the only watery experience you should have with SD. Speaking of which, I woke up this morning heavier than ever and abs poppin out all over the place lol.

Remember, diet clean = SD clean. Diet dirty = SD dirty.

i agree its a dry compound. but from watching numerous people use it ive only seen one or two acually look lean afterwards. most people just blow up due to the glycogen uptake as you pointed out. as we all know there are much better compounds to close out a cycle with

 

[fueledpassion]

i agree its a dry compound. but from watching numerous people use it ive only seen one or two acually look lean afterwards. most people just blow up due to the glycogen uptake as you pointed out. as we all know there are much better compounds to close out a cycle with

This could be true but impossible to prove I think since everyone reacts a bit differently to each compound. I love SD. Makes me ripped, full and strong. I think the proper amount of cardio and a controlled diet that limits empty calories and avoids processed foods would make SD a much better experience for most. Plus, I'm taking my full dose in the morning and my Toco-8 at night to avoid a dramatic suppression just before PCT. Also, I'm not arguing with you by any means about "thrashing the liver" but I ran 20mg of SD bridged into Trenazone and H-Drol and ran Test-Prop that whole duration and had bloods done the day after ending my orals. Bloods came back clean as far a liver values and RBC and WBC counts go. I have the proof on this website posted last Fall.

 

[AHammer]

perfect thanks for all the responses! Excited for the easiest 15 lbs of my life!

 

[ambulldog]

This could be true but impossible to prove I think since everyone reacts a bit differently to each compound. I love SD. Makes me ripped, full and strong. I think the proper amount of cardio and a controlled diet that limits empty calories and avoids processed foods would make SD a much better experience for most. Plus, I'm taking my full dose in the morning and my Toco-8 at night to avoid a dramatic suppression just before PCT. Also, I'm not arguing with you by any means about "thrashing the liver" but I ran 20mg of SD bridged into Trenazone and H-Drol and ran Test-Prop that whole duration and had bloods done the day after ending my orals. Bloods came back clean as far a liver values and RBC and WBC counts go. I have the proof on this website posted last Fall.

all cool bro. i know many people bridge orals. i believe you had good bw i have no reason to question it. but that doesnt mean it would happen the next time or that other people have as much luck while running orals. my point was that running orals is hard enough on the liver. why would someone add another major liver stressor like accutane?

 

[lennoxchi]

perfect thanks for all the responses! Excited for the easiest 15 lbs of my life!

might be easy to put it on, lets see how good you are at keeping it.

 

[fueledpassion]

all cool bro. i know many people bridge orals. i believe you had good bw i have no reason to question it. but that doesnt mean it would happen the next time or that other people have as much luck while running orals. my point was that running orals is hard enough on the liver. why would someone add another major liver stressor like accutane?

Agreed. I must have missed the Accutaine part of the convo. I forgot to mention though that I ran UDCA with the orals and THAT is why I had good values. UDCA is what the ER would treat a patient with liver failure. It works and helps the cholesterol values as well. For those two reasons I would run UDCA with any oral cycle from now on.

 

[jt339]

Agreed. I must have missed the Accutaine part of the convo. I forgot to mention though that I ran UDCA with the orals and THAT is why I had good values. UDCA is what the ER would treat a patient with liver failure. It works and helps the cholesterol values as well. For those two reasons I would run UDCA with any oral cycle from now on.

N-acetyl cysteine is used to treat tylenol overdose which causes massive liver necrosis. It's what I have always used and had good results with. I'm kind of confused how a secondary bile acid actually keeps the liver from dying.

 

[fueledpassion]

N-acetyl cysteine is used to treat tylenol overdose which causes massive liver necrosis. It's what I have always used and had good results with. I'm kind of confused how a secondary bile acid actually keeps the liver from dying.

I'm still learning how it works myself. All I know is that there a several studies showing positive results in regard to UDCA treatment. There are a few other solid alternatives out there too not just milk thistle.