Test/Deca/IGF cycle advice

smash1904

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I have decided to go with the deca/test, I really want to try it. If I like it I'll run it again, if I don't I'll move onto eq.

I have x2 deca 250 10cc, x3 test e 250 10cc, x1 test p 250 10cc.

Now I just need to figure out dosage and timeline, as well as a couple other things:

1) 200 deca/250 test - 200 deca/300 test - 250 deca/300 test - 250 deca/350 test - 300 deca/350 test
Bold being the one I'm leaning towards, but maybe I should go a little higher? It's 500mg/week total androgens.

Ive read you should run test double, but then I've read trt dosage has worked too, I really dont know what to believe, cause it kind of sounds like if your going to have a problem, your going to regardless. And that if you do, you just need a dopamine agonist. I just really feel like I should try and keep the dosage on the low end to feel it out and see how it treats me.

Does running an ai stop libido issues cause it prevents prolactin increase? I dont want to kill estrogen cause I do want the gains, but if I can't please my girl thats a problem.

2)
1-10 Deca
1-12 Test E
1-2 Test P 350mg
1-4 IGF
7-10 IGF
13-16 IGF
1-12 HCG 250mcg M/F
13-16 Toremifene 60/60/60/60
13-18 DAA
13-18 Formastanzol
Should I maybe run the deca longer - like 12-14 weeks? With the lower doses will I need an ai on cycle(kind of redundant)?

3) The more I read about deca, the more it kinda scares me... Permanent loss of libido, deca dick, depression - are these common? Is the hcg and test really going to help? Is it likely Im going to need to use caber(which I'm having trouble finding) and B6? Should I be confident that caber will fix everything, or am I going to need cialis?

Will prami suffice? It's more affordable, I hear it works just as well, and I know where to get it. I'm going to start at .125mg/day for a week before bed, then bump up to .25.

I just want to make sure I have all bases covered, and everything I need on hand going into this this time - last cycle could of been a lot smoother, and I want to do everything to make this go smoothly.

Thanks.
 
ManBeast

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I'm of the opinion that you should run at least a TRT level of test with anything. If you are looking to minimize your dosages start there and work it up if you are noticing deca-dick etc (IMHO.

An AI will do nothing for prolactin, it just lowers estrogen (unless estrogen is what gets converted to prolactin).

Parami works for deca/tren too, and seems easier to find, I wouldn't run it or an AI until needed though.

ManBeast
 
Matthersby

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Please, please, please log this. Great looking cycle. I am nervous about deca also but it's not one of the most popular steroids of all time because of the few horror stories out there. I'm running damn near the same cycle this summer but with 30 mg d-bol first 4 and test ran higher. I'd really love to see how this goes for you. Good luck!
 
DetroitHammer

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Please, please, please log this. Great looking cycle. I am nervous about deca also but it's not one of the most popular steroids of all time because of the few horror stories out there. I'm running damn near the same cycle this summer but with 30 mg d-bol first 4 and test ran higher. I'd really love to see how this goes for you. Good luck!
But by the same logic, crack cocaine would be great since it's one of the most popular drugs of all time. I wouldn't embrace deca or any drug by its popularity. Run what you want, just don't use something just because others are jumping off the bridge.
 
Matthersby

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Dh, I respect that you don't care for deca, and to be honest, you've made me think twice about it on a few occasions. I've even asked you in another thread what would be a comparable alternative to it. But to refer to those that use it as mindless sheep following other advocates of it to our demise is not how I see it. Since my history of steroid use is um, about 5 weeks old, it's fair to say I'm a newb. I value opinions, like yours greatly, and I take note... But what other info do I have available other than threads written by those who have used it succesfully with incredible results in our 'community' vs. those who say 'stear clear of it, I had a limp noodle for 2 months' ?
It seems like dreadful side effects can take place with any of these compounds we put in our bodies...
 
DetroitHammer

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I wish you the best with deca. You may love it. There are many that swear by it. I just wanted to caution you on your own comment about it being popular so it must be good. You're a young guy and in my opinion if you experience any negative sides you'll more than likely recover just fine. I'll be interested in seeing your results... We are a select group that tamper with our endocrine system to elicit a desired effect and do so without the benefit of physicians, who really are clueless as to the effects of AAS. We all, in essence, become lab rats and share our experiences with others so if we screw up, others won't. A lot of the concern, like liver toxicity wth anadrol, elevated E2, high RBC etc all have an element of true concern, but in many cases the sides are no worse than taking Motrin. Don't put too much stock in what I say, because you're right, the vast majority seem to enjoy deca and make it part of their cycle. Know the sides, watch yourself and be prepared for the worse; hope for the best.
 
Matthersby

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Don't put too much stock in what I say, because you're right, the vast majority seem to enjoy deca
Anyone who has lurked about AM long enough and is semi-inexperienced, likely does put stock in what you say. You clearly know your stuff. I am also going to research alot more before I make a decision, which OP obviously did too.
I've got a girlfriend that would not be pleased if I became another deca horror story.
 
smash1904

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I'm of the opinion that you should run at least a TRT level of test with anything. If you are looking to minimize your dosages start there and work it up if you are noticing deca-dick etc (IMHO.

An AI will do nothing for prolactin, it just lowers estrogen (unless estrogen is what gets converted to prolactin).

Parami works for deca/tren too, and seems easier to find, I wouldn't run it or an AI until needed though.

ManBeast
My thoughts are that I ran 500mg total androgens last time, keep it around the same this time, and I should have similar results. It also allows me to make a decision on whether or not deca is for me, cause if I don't like it or can't handle it at this conservative dose, why would I run it higher? I am running the test double trt but only in a 1.5:1 ratio, even though its many peoples recommendation to run it 2:1.

As for running an ai I had heard that you control estrogen you control prolactin, but this kind of sounded like speculation and I couldn't find anyone saying that this was effective at stopping the decas negatives on libido. Only that estrogen plus prolactin = gyno.

Dopamine agonists seem to be the only proven effective thing at combating those negatives, and I'd rather be proactive about it and just start it right off the bat before any negatives occur. I hear it has a lot of other benefits too...
 
ManBeast

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DH: due you are an invaluable resource. I haven't touched deca from before I knew you, but I'm just not sure I think its the wonder-roid a lot of the interwebs portray it as. If I were to try it, I'd probably run nandralone phenylprop for the shorter ester in canse the sh*t hits the fan.

ManBeast
 
smash1904

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Please, please, please log this. Great looking cycle. I am nervous about deca also but it's not one of the most popular steroids of all time because of the few horror stories out there. I'm running damn near the same cycle this summer but with 30 mg d-bol first 4 and test ran higher. I'd really love to see how this goes for you. Good luck!
Haha trust me I will be logging it, and ya the horror stories freak me out. I'm doing my research and making sure I do everything I can to run this right.
 
smash1904

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But by the same logic, crack cocaine would be great since it's one of the most popular drugs of all time. I wouldn't embrace deca or any drug by its popularity. Run what you want, just don't use something just because others are jumping off the bridge.
Ya I've read the pros and cons, and want to see what it does for me - hoping 500mg combined total will give better gains than 500mg of test solo, with less/manageable sides. I read about a few compounds, and this is one I really want to see if I can handle. Doing or not doing it just because of what others say isn't the best idea - I'm doing my research and weighing it out.
 
smash1904

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Dh, I respect that you don't care for deca, and to be honest, you've made me think twice about it on a few occasions. I've even asked you in another thread what would be a comparable alternative to it. But to refer to those that use it as mindless sheep following other advocates of it to our demise is not how I see it. Since my history of steroid use is um, about 5 weeks old, it's fair to say I'm a newb. I value opinions, like yours greatly, and I take note... But what other info do I have available other than threads written by those who have used it succesfully with incredible results in our 'community' vs. those who say 'stear clear of it, I had a limp noodle for 2 months' ?
It seems like dreadful side effects can take place with any of these compounds we put in our bodies...
Ya this is my 2nd aas run, and I'm trying to take small steps from last cycle.

http://www.ironforlife.com/t3167-cycle-advice-(comments-on-first-cycles-doses-eating-etc).html

http://www.ironforlife.com/t3177-low-dose-cycles--truth-and-myth.html

Figured this was an appropriate jump, don't need to get all crazy. And not being able to perform with my lady = not ok. Number one concern walking into this, its why I'm running the prami. Do some research on prami and caber.
 
smash1904

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I wish you the best with deca. You may love it. There are many that swear by it. I just wanted to caution you on your own comment about it being popular so it must be good. You're a young guy and in my opinion if you experience any negative sides you'll more than likely recover just fine. I'll be interested in seeing your results... We are a select group that tamper with our endocrine system to elicit a desired effect and do so without the benefit of physicians, who really are clueless as to the effects of AAS. We all, in essence, become lab rats and share our experiences with others so if we screw up, others won't. A lot of the concern, like liver toxicity wth anadrol, elevated E2, high RBC etc all have an element of true concern, but in many cases the sides are no worse than taking Motrin. Don't put too much stock in what I say, because you're right, the vast majority seem to enjoy deca and make it part of their cycle. Know the sides, watch yourself and be prepared for the worse; hope for the best.
I'm hoping I do too, and I hope with the conservative protocol and support it goes smoothly. I've been researching this next cycle for like 3 months now. Prepared for the worst, hoping for the best.
 
smash1904

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Anyone who has lurked about AM long enough and is semi-inexperienced, likely does put stock in what you say. You clearly know your stuff. I am also going to research alot more before I make a decision, which OP obviously did too.
I've got a girlfriend that would not be pleased if I became another deca horror story.
Ya DH always has good useful feedback, thank you.
 
smash1904

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Ok so it turns out I will be able to throw in some caber - ya its a little more expensive but not by much. And really $2/week isn't unreasonable anyways, and at that price with all its benefits I think I'll be running it for awhile.

Should I run the torem 120/60/60/60, 120/60/60/60/60 or 60/60/60/60/60/60?

And I'm looking at two cycle options:

(14.5 weeks)
1-13 Test E 300mg
1-12 Deca 200mg

Or

(12.5 weeks)
1-11 Test E 300mg
1-10 Deca 250mg

I'm leaning towards the 14.5 week cycle, I like the idea of a longer duration with a lower dose for more solid gains. My thought is I'd keep more after cycle that way, and I'd be sticking at that 500mg total androgen range. Good starting point with deca, and next time I could bump it up to 250/350 if I want it to be a little stronger.
 
ManBeast

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I'd say run it for the longer cycle for the same reason if the doses are working for you. PCT wise I'd rather see:
120/120/90/90/60/60 honestly.

ManBeast
 
smash1904

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I'd say run it for the longer cycle for the same reason if the doses are working for you. PCT wise I'd rather see:
120/120/90/90/60/60 honestly.

ManBeast
How many weeks before I make that judgement? I know deca takes awhile to kick in, should it be a real noticeable difference from the test? Should these doses have a more pronounced effect than when I ran just test at the same total?

The reasoning behind the torem is I have 40 60mg gel caps...
 
ManBeast

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Ahhhh, hmmm on the torem.

I can't honestly tell you how deca will feel, as I've never used it, it does take 4-6 weeks to kick in for most though.

ManBeast
 
smash1904

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Ahhhh, hmmm on the torem.

I can't honestly tell you how deca will feel, as I've never used it, it does take 4-6 weeks to kick in for most though.

ManBeast
I hear torem works really fast and is super effective, couple people saying 3 weeks is all it takes. I'd think 120mg for 7 days then 60 for 26 should suffice? Or do I need to get another 40? I'm also using DAA and Formestane for 6 weeks. Hcg on cycle, plus I've been told 500mcg/day for 10 days before pct.

As for deca 200mg is low dose recommendation, and ya supposedly 4-6 weeks to fully kick in. I'm just curious as to how noticeable it will be when it kicks in. I guess I'll find out, and I'll log it.
 
smash1904

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Which ai should I have on hand? Aromasin or Arimidex? If I didn't need one last cycle how will I know when and if I should run it? M/F? Dosage?
 
ManBeast

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The main thing you might notice is that if your joints were getting sore, they'll start feeling better when the deca kicks in.

I'd run torem for at least 4 weeks and be ready for 6 even, a short little cycle like 4 weeks could get away with 3 I think, but shutdown gets harder as time goes on.

ManBeast
 
smash1904

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So I'm wondering if the use of the topical finastride "spironolactone" would actually work for acne. I found out I have cystic acne on my back, and I'm really considering accutane at 20mg a day or eod.
 
madds87

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Ooooo accutane..... Stuff is rough..... I dont know how that will go on cycle.... I would like to say not to do that.... That stuff has horns and laughs like the devil.....
 
smash1904

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Ooooo accutane..... Stuff is rough..... I dont know how that will go on cycle.... I would like to say not to do that.... That stuff has horns and laughs like the devil.....
Haha well I'm not on cycle yet, but I've read a lot of people saying they've had great success on or off cycle with the stuff - THAT IT WORKS. Ya the sides might be a little rough, but I read that the problem is at the higher dosage of 80mg/day, and I'm talking 20mg a day/eod - which I heard works, just at much slower rate. But doing it this way I hear the likelihood of serious sides is low, just to expect chapped lips and occasional bloody noses.

I'm thinking of running it before my next cycle at 40mg/day for two weeks prior, then just 20mg for the first 2 weeks of cycle, then 20mg M/W/F for the duration of cycle and pct.

Unless of course an anti androgen topical cream could stop it too. I've read it does and it doesn't just stop dht from effecting the skin, it stops all androgens from messing with it.

I mean ya, I'm pretty sure the acne I've had on my back started on cycle and had just lingered, I haven't had much new formation, and its getting better slowly off cycle. But I want to fix this if possible, and I'm tired of hearing "its part of the game," when I know there's meds for it.
 

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